Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[hapahauli]

My gut tells me that too. But we need a lynch, and I'm not sure if we can gather a feasible counter-wagon given the inactivity.

[hapahauli]

Varsoon, are you willing to hammer NC in the event no one else shows up?

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Jake or dashie could you answer my questions please?

Jake or dashie could you answer my questions please?

You mean the "why would I do this [sheep]" as scum? When the reason for your sheep was "zef is sheeping"?

I really don't see a question from you really. I already explained why that post, and other things, were a scumtell.

so you ask us to answer a question, and dashie gives you a response by asking for a more clarifying question, and nothing from you?

So I suppose I'm getting lynched then. That's fine. I'm claiming VT now, and I would like to give some final reads cause I think I might be onto something. But, I'm phoneposting and I can't really make a case right now.

Short version is I think Jake is scum. Remember that thing varsoon said earlier? I agree with that, that's part of it. If I get to my computer before I flip I'll tell you all the other reasons I think I saw.

what "thing" did varsoon say that you agree with?

[Toomai]

So I suppose I'm getting lynched then. That's fine. I'm claiming VT now, and I would like to give some final reads cause I think I might be onto something. But, I'm phoneposting and I can't really make a case right now.

Short version is I think Jake is scum. Remember that thing varsoon said earlier? I agree with that, that's part of it. If I get to my computer before I flip I'll tell you all the other reasons I think I saw.

what "thing" did varsoon say that you agree with?

Must be 303, that's the only thing I can see that looks relevant. If so it looks somewhat weak.

[NicCage]

dude hasn't voted in forever, content of his posts comes off as scum trying to sit back, etc etc.
I just don't like him. Someone mentioned him recently and I was like, "Oh, that guy exists?"
Yeah, that's what he wanted me to think.
'cus he's scum.

This is the Varsoon quote I was talking about.

My questions to Jake(which I use to refer to the hydra, not the single player):

Spoiler:

Why me and not Toomai?

Jake, does this inform your read on me?

Yep

unvote

VOTE: zefiend

Why, as scum, would I do this? How does scum stand to benefit from this and why is it scummy?

The response:

Spoiler:

Jake or dashie could you answer my questions please?

You mean the "why would I do this [sheep]" as scum? When the reason for your sheep was "zef is sheeping"?

I really don't see a question from you really. I already explained why that post, and other things, were a scumtell.

In which he pretty much blew me off, which I guess is somewhat understandable, given that he thinks I'm scum. My reasoning was NOT zef is sheeping though, it was because zef picked out something that I felt was easy to see why it wasn't scummy and that it was an easy logical point to make. So way to misrep me there.

But from that post I glean that the answer to my first question is yes and the second just wasn't worth the effort to answer, because it isn't answered elsewhere.

So here is why the first is scummy:

Spoiler:

My turn to post!

Vote NC

Why me and not Toomai?

This is a really bad post to start as it doesn't actually attack any of the logic that was presented as to why its scummy, but instead tries to deflect part of what he is being called for to another as well without really giving thoughts on hp or Toom.

Yep

unvote

VOTE: zefiend

This is a pretty ugly sheep. Apart from zef being one of my stronger town read at this point, it seems like more of a runaway vote following a vocal player who was calling him scum. I would love to actually see NC try and give reason for the vote before GCBC gives one (even though they probably both are missing reasons - zef is really town which anypony should see at this point).

Now, the reasoning on my "Why me and not Toomai" post is fine for early game, to get the ball rolling, but I don't believe it's alright to be using that against me now. For starters, I wasn't under serious suspicion at the time, so there was no reason for me to be shifting the blame. There practically was no blame to shift, and I explained my reasoning for asking that question was to find out what the difference was between Toomai and I. Jake obviously doesn't accept that reasoning, but he never says why it's wrong and has never attempted to understand my motivation from a different perspective. This is part of a pattern of behavior.

Here is the post about why zef is town:

Spoiler:

So the "zef is town" breakdown.

Of course.

However I don't understand why he would vote someone

on the basis that he hates RVS,

while effectively making an RVS vote of his own

.

A random vote is one that is made randomly, without reasoning or justification.

hp [leaves] placed his vote and gave a reason. Therefore, it isn't a random vote. Whether or not you like his reasoning doesn't matter. Whether or not he's already changed his vote doesn't matter. You're misrepresenting his actions (see the italicized quoted part) in order to justify your confusion, or misunderstanding, or whatever (see the underlined quoted part). The point is that you're trying to call his actions into question, but you're pushing too hard on it. This seems forced to me.

This is good and logical. Its town picking up on something that he sees as scum trying to throw out a vote on non-existent reasoning. While its not worded perfectly (more to follow there) he is pushing into it not even blindly but actually trying to discern where the attack is coming from while giving his overall conclusion at the point in time.

If you construe hp [leaves] vote as random there is nothing I can do to change your opinion, as we have different interpretations of the term "random vote." To me, his vote was not meant as a joke.

To rephrase it a bit differently, I find the fact that you "find <<what hp [leaves] did>> scummy, or at the very least something worth pursuing" is pushing to force an issue that's simply not worth it.

More "trying to get to bottom of reasoning" as opposed to "lol you are scum" response.

I never said you were trying too hard. To clarify, I am voting for you because I don't like the way you are going after hp [leaves]. I feel as though there is nothing there to warrant going after, and your pushing on it and questioning is unsettling.

This was that "misinterpretation" I was talking about. The comment he got railed on was him basically saying "that is a really bad point" or at very least saying "that appears to be a very bad point" instead of "you are attacking him too hard over a valid point".

I am all for prying information from someone, but only necessarily if they do something genuinely suspicious or questionable. It seems as though you are admitting to "forcing things", albeit for the sake of generating information... so, along with the fact that you are generally being proactive in regards to activity, I will

Unvote: hapahauli

for now.

We get full circle here. He sees where the push is coming from, and although he does appear to still disagree with it, he feels that its town motivated instead of scum motivated. I can follow him, do you?

@NC - How is that vote "safe". If any vote is "safe" its yours on him because its sheeping the vocal player without actually giving any reason of your own as to why you are voting him. I can point to quite a few "safe" votes so far, usually one where the palyer starts trying to kick up their own logic isn't one.

Since when is "wordy" a scumtell anyways?

Basically NC is scum.

He sheeps over the loud player onto Zef who is "wordy" and "making a safe vote". When half of his case is exactly how he is playing the game

This townread is right in my opinion, and the reasons behind it are solid. It's actually an enormous part of why I changed my read on zef, in case you were curious.

What I find funny about this post is how it points out a really good town quality without actually practicing it. He says that zef is trying to get to the bottom of something rather than just calling someone scum. But at the end that's exactly what Jake does. There really aren't any questions trying to understand my logic behind voting zef, aside from asking how wordy is a scumtell. I'm obviously just scum from my response, and no further investigation is necessary, right?

Spoiler:

Can't tell if GCBC is telling me to unvote or ACfan to unvote.

Either way,

unvote

Glad to see I got some kind of reaction out of JakePony.

JakePony, please explain why I should support your vote that's 250 posts old.

reaction testing an active poster by calling him inactive?

you can vote whoever you want, but my original reasons for voting him are still valid and he hasn't done anything but lurk. He has had 1 content filled post but he didn't even complete it, he said he had more to come and then vanished again. When I asked when he was going to finish he said that the rest of what he was going to say wasn't valid (or whatever) anymore. There was the one time when someone (can't remember who at the moment) voted and only gave a reason of "BC" and he immediately showed up ask about that and provide nothing else.

He isn't scum hunting and nothing coming from him shows pro-town behavior.

If you wanted something from me you should have asked. I concede that I haven't been a good player, but you haven't even tried to discern whether I was bad or scum. Aside from commenting on me, where is

your

scumhunting? I don't see any.

This is what made me suspect Jake in the first place

Spoiler:

You don't have to wait for this pony to actually be at my laptop to ask me questions, its not like they will disappear by the time I get off of work (which may cut into access this weekend since I need to go in for at least one half day).

Also we are almost for sure going to be still voting NC here. Outside of something massive happening with regards to ac he wont be getting our vote today, if he is scum he is pushed into a corner for what he does. If he is town scum are pushed into a corner.

Plus he is a good pick for NC partner, if you look at the two the both sorta acknowledge eachother but don't really take stances for the most part. Not sure where you are getting "that's not scum and scum" from there.

I feel like Jake's protecting ac over a mostly useless PR is bad. He says ac is scummy, but he wants me more. I don't the a nearly VT PR is any better than VT and if ac does get lynched at some point and flips scum I would say Jake is scum with him. Calling us good partners seems to me like Jake trying to get hap to back off ac and agree with him. If he and ac are scum together, this would be very beneficial to them, because I'm going to flip town.

Spoiler:

I don't know if nic is going to flip scum, it's possible he flips town but I seriously doubt it. Usually wagons on a townie do not take this much effort, and they almost certainly don't generate multiple counter wagons.

If i had to guess, Nic is a scum PR which is why it's making it that much harder, even just a scum goon would not be this difficult as scum would just buss from town cred.

I think this is just more bad reasoning to get hap to back off. Maybe it's so difficult because I'm

not

scum. This is more for posterity than anything else.

To sum it all up, I think Jake is scum because he tunneled on an easy target all game, doing almost no scumhunting anywhere else, and is avoiding lynching other scummy players for bad reasons, possibly indicating that they're partners. He made little effort to understand my motivations because it was more in his interest to just call them scummy, and while my lurking was a major point against he made no effort to force me to be active.

[NicCage]

I recognize that all of this could be wrong also.

Jake, sorry, I didn't realize that was asking for clarification. What needs clarified?

[Varsoon]

Varsoon, are you willing to hammer NC in the event no one else shows up?

I don't want a nolynch, either, but I won't vote NC.
He's town.

[hapahauli]

NC, I really wish you would have put that amount of effort into the game before.

[hapahauli]

Varsoon, are you willing to hammer NC in the event no one else shows up?

I don't want a nolynch, either, but I won't vote NC.
He's town.

Well the thing is, not flipping him doesn't really change anything in the grand scheme of things. We still would need the same amount of mislynches to lose.

I think he's town, but I'm not 100% sure he's town. Also if he's alive and maintains his level of activity, he'll just be a distraction tomorrow.

If it comes down to it, please hammer him. I know it sucks, but literally

anything

is better than a no-lynch. Even lynching a townie.

[Dyslexicon]

Dyslexicon

just really hasn't done... anything. And this read isn't so much that he's done something blatantly scummy, but there's also nothing that he's done that would suggest he's town. To have no reason to think someone's town (game actions, filter, votes, or otherwise) is strange at this stage of the game. Likely scum blending in here. I'll do an elaborate ISO if I'm alive tomorrow.

What happened to "I love you"? Are we breaking up?

Anyway, I don't really get why NC has been prioritized over ac19. But I guess we'll see NC flip, but now he actually seems more town. His leads on Jake are something to work on for next day. And I don't remember who made this point first, but NC's wagon hasn't had much resistance, in spite of being slow. ac19's did, in spite of being really fast. My top suspect is still ac19, and if NC flips town Jake will be as well.

Oh, and I can hammer NC if needed.

(And I know you guys don't like excuses, but I really wish I had more time to invest in this game lately. So please accept my apologies for that, I hope to do better from here on.)

[hapahauli]

We are breaking up unfortunately =/

Unless you start acting super active and townie, and then we will make us some townie-babies.

But how long will you be in the thread? Hammering in about ~1-2 hours is ideal I think.

[NicCage]

Yeah, sorry about that. Finals came first, and I can't really get reads without rereading, which is difficult when I have a lot to reread.

Honestly I'll hammer me if it comes to that, I'm pretty sure that would be more beneficial

[Dyslexicon]

We are breaking up unfortunately =/

Unless you start acting super active and townie, and then we will make us some townie-babies.

But how long will you be in the thread? Hammering in about ~1-2 hours is ideal I think.

[Dyslexicon]

We are breaking up unfortunately =/

Unless you start acting super active and townie, and then we will make us some townie-babies.

But how long will you be in the thread? Hammering in about ~1-2 hours is ideal I think.

The first one I was just lost for words because of my broken heart.

I am acting town. Hopefully more devoted next phase.

I'll be around for an hour more, so I'll hammer.

[hapahauli]

God I'm so annoyed that we have to lynch NC.

Can we get a roll call? Maybe we can explore some last-minute possibilities.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

I'm here, but I'm leaving the decision to dashie. The fact he put effort like that in that last post, even if he's still wrong, is not something id expect from scum.

I'm also ok with an AC lynch cause fuck him if he's actually town. Really fuck both of them IMO.

If you are too busy to play, replace out or don't join.
-J

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

I would like to know if we have enough around to quicklynch somepony outside of the acfan/NC group (smart bits on both town). Killing daemon/SB wouldn't be horrible to me.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

That was dashie

[NicCage]

I don't think you're gonna get that.
Also dys leans town imo. Toomai could also possibly be town by what dys said, but that is by no means certain. SB is a a sack of null and needs to be forced to contribute more tomorrow. Off the top of my head GCBC seems suspicious, but I think GCBC and Jake seems somewhat unlikely at this point. I'd keep an eye on that though. Ac should probably be lynched I think. Other than that, good luck, hopefully I've helped you catch some scum.

[NicCage]

I don't want to lynch daemon

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

You have helped squat.

-J

[NicCage]

Lol yeah that's a possibility. Still, next time don't tunnel or dig harder.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Or when you are the main topic for 2 weeks, don't lurk...

When you have 2 people agreeing on 1 person, that's a sure sign that we are right, or the person is obviously scummy.

We disagree on other players, but we both agreed with you.

Plus I tunnel, always have, always will.

-J

[Daemon385]

I'm back from a busy day and catching up to what I missed. Now that I see a lot from NicCage I actually kind of like what he has put up. I'm starting to not want to lynch him myself he seems more townie, but we do need to do something before the time runs out. My vote is ready. I will vote Nic if need be idk if we can start a different wagon at this point.

[Daemon385]

I would perfer a Scott vote my personal self just because I still feel he is the more scummier person. Let me check the time real quick. I'm about to drop my vote unless we have any other reason to rethink anything right now