NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

AngryPidgeon · Post Post #1875 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 12:28 pm

page snipe

<<< I'd call you out on being a lazy-ass co-mod

(again)

, but that would be highly hypocritical given page 78.

>>>

Thirty-seventh Votecount

:

(

AKA, the "You had to tempt fate with the comment on voting, didn't ya?!?" votecount

)

Nachomamma8 - 7 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Slandaar, Seanald, CrashTextDummie, Om the Destroyer, Baby Spice)

fuzzybutternut - 3 (thezmon221, Cephrir, Oversoul)

ArcAngel9 - 2 (DLG, Desperado)
Oversoul - 2 (Kublai Khan, BeautyAndTheBeast)
Red Ryu - 2 (ArcAngel9, Thor665)
Desperado - 2 (Nachomamma8, Syryana)
Bacde - 1 (Bulbazak)
Om the Destroyer - 1 (fuzzybutternut)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 1 (Nero Cain)

Not Voting - 3 (Hanzo_5, EddieFenix, Amethyst Kitty)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

Red Ryu is V/LA from Friday, May 17th until Monday, May 20th.
At least half of the Amethyst Kitty hydra is V/LA until Tuesday, May 21st.

Spoiler: changes from last official votecount

Spoiler: Player Vote History

Spoiler: Voting History

Baby Spice · Post Post #1876 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 12:30 pm

In post 1829, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1564, Baby Spice wrote:Which means a trip through Nacho's iso tommorow.

In post 1787, Baby Spice wrote:
Vote Nacho

Since Bc asked so nicely.

Hey Fuzzy, this is not open 495.
Baby Spice, what did you find in my ISO?

Still working though it.

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1877 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 12:53 pm

In post 1837, Thor665 wrote:Vote: Red Ryu[/b]

I have a town read on Ryu.

In post 1855, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 1718, Majiffy wrote:
USER WAS MODKILLED FOR THIS POST.

vote:B&TB

75 pages and

this

is how you choose to use your vote?

Slandaar · Post Post #1878 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 1:03 pm

In post 1874, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1871, Slandaar wrote:Well there are many explanations for this but they all conclude with; to gain what he thinks is a huge advantage.
Find him discussing that in a situation that does not involve 10 alive in an SK game as opposed to a Day start large.
He also never said it was a huge advantage for scum - he said it was dangerous for town in a SK present situation.
That's a questionable word twist on your part - clarify?

He didn't know it was an SK it was all theoretical just like this could have an SK or be Multiball etc, so your argument is what? he thinks its more beneficial in a large game where POE is useless over a game with 10 players and POE much more beneficial? (It also forced the SK if an SK into an awkward spot which I explained)

How if something is terrible for town (i believe the term was 'shitty') is it not beneficial to scum ie advantageous? Clarify for me please as this seems like very scummy nitpicking.

In post 1874, Thor665 wrote: Because we're a list full of people scared to call Nacho on things or massively known for advocating mass claims?

I am known for it, yes, just not on D1.

In post 1874, Thor665 wrote: Go to his user page, search through his games.

You know I won't. I want to see you actually have done what you say it should only take you 2 minutes seems you should know which games they are. Right?

In post 1874, Thor665 wrote: So...your proof is that he'll shift back to his old meta after this game and that proves he's lying now?
Because if that is what you're saying I'm bewildered, and if that's not what you're saying then I don't follow you.

I didn't call it proof of anykind. I just said if hes scum its not a metashift.

Thor: its a metashift
Sland: well not if hes scum
Thor: yah it is!
Sland: eh no (explanation)
Thor: LOL NICE PROOF.

Its impossible to prove unless you know his alignment.

In post 1874, Thor665 wrote: I thought that half of your point was that he was playing differently here than there, now you want me to argue differently?
Also, a town voting block through reads is a totally different concept from massclaim - but tell you what, you get him as town saying how bad and pro scum he thinks town voting blocks are and I'll help lynch him right now and sheep you tomorrow.

Yes that is half of my point.

I see you interpretted what I said in some strange way that makes no sense. I explained everything to him very clearly very recently; he did not understand the concepts, so how in a worse situation can he think its beneficial when so opposed previously? this is the issue and one you seem to avoid.

Thor665 · Post Post #1879 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 1:31 pm

In post 1878, Slandaar wrote:How if something is terrible for town (i believe the term was 'Smurfy') is it not beneficial to scum ie advantageous? Clarify for me please as this seems like very scummy nitpicking.

Something can hurt town without helping scum - otherwise the term anti-town wouldn't exist.
Also, there *is* a big difference between something hurting town and something helping Mafia.
Which is what you are saying he is and why he is doing what he's doing.

In post 1878, Slandaar wrote:I am known for it, yes, just not on D1.

Again, are you saying *this playerlist* would tend to make Nacho believe that?
Because that's what you're claiming as a rebuttal to my point - so...y'know, defend the claim.

In post 1878, Slandaar wrote:You know I won't. I want to see you actually have done what you say it should only take you 2 minutes seems you should know which games they are. Right?

Heck no it wouldn't, why would I commit that information to memory?

In post 1878, Slandaar wrote:Thor: its a metashift
Sland: well not if hes scum
Thor: yah it is!
Sland: eh no (explanation)
Thor: LOL NICE PROOF.

So...it's a shift of his scum...wait for it...meta?
Because otherwise you could just go and show me a scum game where he advocated doing this and then we'd have a lynch already.

In post 1878, Slandaar wrote:Its impossible to prove unless you know his alignment.

Agreed.
Which is my point...because I'm not using it as a case to lynch him.
If you want to argue that I have no buisness deciding it's a town tell...well, okay, we can debate that. But if I'm wrong, then so are you, and I'm still correct on the core question of if he should be lynched over the tell.

In post 1878, Slandaar wrote:I see you interpretted what I said in some strange way that makes no sense. I explained everything to him very clearly very recently; he did not understand the concepts, so how in a worse situation can he think its beneficial when so opposed previously? this is the issue and one you seem to avoid.

So your claim is he only sees the benefit of town voting blocks when scum?
Is that where this is going?

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1880 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 1:37 pm

In post 1836, Kublai Khan wrote:For fuck's sake. Are you seriously calling me scummy while sheeping my vote? Can you fence sit any fucking harder?

Obviously, if bacde gets night-killed if a moot question.

I once sheeped nacho for an entire game when I knew he was scum.

true story. I was trying to figure out who his partner was

pretty sure you are scum kubbles. I bet thor thinks you are too

speaking of thor what is your read on him we need to preserve it for reasons of posterity

ISO · Post Post #1881 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 1:43 pm

In post 1837, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1804, Cephrir wrote:It's strong in that I'm voting for scum. Is it likely to result in a lynch today, probably not.
And this will help town...how?

A. By this logic voting for anyone but Nacho is a waste of time, since he'll probably be lynched today.
B. How was your B&B vote supposed to help town, seeing as that lynch is even less likely than fuzzy?

In post 1837, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1804, Cephrir wrote:Soft supporting? So you're trying to tell me the only reactions possible to a wagon are voting for it and the AA9 brand "OMG hell no" reaction? I know that I'm not the world's best at reading other players, so I never get confident enough in my reads to have either of those reactions. I don't feel strongly enough about this to try to derail the wagon, I see better scumhunters than myself on it, but I'm not going to put my vote where my own honest opinion isn't except to get a deadline compromise lynch.
Here you are soft supporting it again.

First of all, no I wasn't. If anything I'm softly against it. Second of all, you've yet to tell me what would be wrong with that even if I was.

In post 1837, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1804, Cephrir wrote:I don't see the use in quoting random posts and saying "well why don't you try voting for fuzzy?" like you're doing with your suspects. That's not going to get you any more votes, all it does it remind everyone with every other sentence where your vote is. I'd love this to be a valid wagon but the Nacho lynch seems like such a foregone conclusion at this point that I know that wouldn't work even if it was within my playstyle (it's not). When I push a wagon I do it by presenting a case and then rebutting arguments against me.

As far as I'm concerned responding to this with an emoticon is like saying "I can't rebut this point but I'm going to hope someone else does it for me or everyone assumes there is something obviously wrong with it". I can see that you're probably doing this explicitly to get on my nerves, and I wish you wouldn't.

In post 1837, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1804, Cephrir wrote:So you were manipulating me, gotcha.
Yes, I was, what are you going to do with that information besides act like it somehow means something while doing nothing with it?

Act like it somehow means something? Townies don't need to manipulate to make their points, and if you do need to then your point wasn't very good in the first place.

In post 1837, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1804, Cephrir wrote:I also sensed a contrived as hell attack coming for your direction, so I figured I might as well pre-emptively defend myself at the same time. I would have discussed it more amicably if your initial posts weren't obviously hostile.
It was only hostile based on the concept that you weren't pushing your lynch - something you fully agree with, so why is that a scummy thing to point out if you agree it is true?

It was hostile based on the fact that it was obviously going to result in a big long argument with me, which of course it did.

In post 1837, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1805, Cephrir wrote:Correction: I have a *slight* idea from the one game I've played with fuzzy. He didn't scumhunt very hard, but as I've said before, he at least made an effort, and didn't bandwagon hop as shamelessly. But this doesn't approach an actual meta read.
As least you realized how bad that stance was.

Link?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=26477

By the way, I may have missed this, but why are you so suspicious of Slandaar? Concisely, please.

In post 1857, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1856, Desperado wrote:zzzzz my post outlining why I'm voting AA9 doesn't explain why I'm voting AA9? I want both of you lynched.
Right. So, again. Why aren't you voting the person who is closer to a lynch?

In post 1856, Desperado wrote:lol a wikipedia link. "...or when they interpret it (information) in a biased way." That's you in a nutshell.
You're saying that I'm interpreting the information in a way that confirms my belief that you are scum. Which infers that I'm town who is interpreting the information wrong and not scum that is twisting the information around to make you look bad.

Right and right. The logic for voting AA9 is terrible- Desperado admits he prefers both Nacho and DLG, and it's not like AA9 is getting lynched right now, so why not vote for the stronger suspect that is actually being pressured? The confirmation bias point really sounds like Desp knows Nacho is town.

In post 1858, Desperado wrote:Because your wagon doesn't appear to be going anywhere and I'm more interested in AA9 right now.

Alternatively, you're scum pushing an unexpected wagon (which, as bacde pointed out, you would know would work in your favor as opposed to joining the biggest rival wagon) as a response to a huge wagon on you, interpreting my behavior (no matter what it is, even if it contradicts an earlier instance) as scummy. You only talk about my early play, which "hurt a fair bit," in generalities and blanket statements, and when I pushed you on them you either: called me scummy for asking you about them, or changed what you originally said into something else. You aren't engaging me in good faith, you're talking through me and then calling me scummy for whatever I do in response.

While I understand this sentiment, the way it's being expressed sounds to me like flailing scum. A townie might feel like their words are being twisted (and they certainly wouldn't imply their attacker is town right after that as with the confirmation bias thing). But "calling me scummy for everything I do in response"... the things you're doing in response *are* scummy. Add this to previous pages of this argument and, well...

VOTE: Desperado

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1882 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 1:45 pm

In post 1834, Slandaar wrote:Thor asks Nacho a question
Nacho Ignores
I prod Thor
Thor forgets Nacho still.

Thor had a line of enquiry on Nacho which was ignored and then he kind of just dropped his line of thinking.

Probably means Thor is scum.

I <3 you plz don't stop

I am pretty sure thor is scum

Thor665 · Post Post #1883 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 2:00 pm

@Slandaar

In post 610, Nachomamma8 wrote:ok but that doesn't mean that massclaiming is cool for today
i will push it through tomorrow hell yeah
but that doesn't mean it is good for today

I did look more at his stance in that game, y'know, the one where town him was totally against massclaim and that's your case.
Found that quote. Y'know, because he's *totally* against massclaim as town.
Derpy-derpa-derp.

In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:A. By this logic voting for anyone but Nacho is a waste of time, since he'll probably be lynched today.
B. How was your B&B vote supposed to help town, seeing as that lynch is even less likely than fuzzy?

A. Not at all, especially if you oppose the wagon. There's a difference between 'unlikely to have a lynch' and 'you're not even trying to get the lynch to happen'
B. Ah, right, because 2 votes vs. 3 votes. Total value change.

In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:First of all, no I wasn't. If anything I'm softly against it. Second of all, you've yet to tell me what would be wrong with that even if I was.

First of all - yes, you were softly supporting it.
Second off, yes, I did explain how it was a scum strategy and why it was "wrong".

In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:As far as I'm concerned responding to this with an emoticon is like saying "I can't rebut this point but I'm going to hope someone else does it for me or everyone assumes there is something obviously wrong with it". I can see that you're probably doing this explicitly to get on my nerves, and I wish you wouldn't.

Well...considering your "presented case" on Fuzzy. Yeah, I figured what was wrong with it was self-evident to everyone without me having to say it.
Should I just say 'I think you're pulling my leg in an unimpressive way' instead of posting the emoticon? I can do that.

In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:Act like it somehow means something? Townies don't need to manipulate to make their points, and if you do need to then your point wasn't very good in the first place.

It's a point you agreed was true, so...yeah, if I exaggerated reality to show something that was true to be true I really must be weird.
What are you even arguing here? You're just randomly slapping at nothing and implying it is scummy without being able to say it or to show why it is.

In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:It was hostile based on the fact that it was obviously going to result in a big long argument with me, which of course it did.

Yeah, how *dare* we scumhunt!
Wait...

In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:By the way, I may have missed this, but why are you so suspicious of Slandaar? Concisely, please.

Gut.

I'm not really seeing the gameplay shift in Fuzzy. He looks quite similar in that game. He's certainly lacking in explanations, consistent posting, and a lot else. Is it just the lack of bandwagon hopping then?

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1884 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 2:16 pm

In post 1837, Thor665 wrote:Ah, so now we're changing the focus of the attack away from hypocrisy (proven false) and over towards stupidity. In other words, you got new information, and decided to change your reasoning in order to still hold the same conclusion.
That is not the way logic works.
Do you do that as town, or only scum?

you never proved that it was false don't even. I said it might be a town tell for you so the whole "change in reasoning" doesn't hold water it is more like a sieve as in your argument is so full of holes it carries no weight. I had 2 different conclusions from that line of thinking and I stated it but I am back to thinking you are scum. why? cos what I said made perfect sense and you know it but are still trying to push a crappy point

I caught you because you presented a false argument and then tried to keep it going and I noted how you were trying to bulldog through and ignore logic and heavily pressured you until it became obvious to everyone else that I was right. If you don't want to call that 'wilting' that's fine with me - tell me what word you think it is, and then I'll say that's what I expected you to do to my pressure...which, y'know, was your original point 'Thor, why pressur eme ecause you know it won't work' when, clearly, I have seen it work.

I was asking you to stop that condescending tone with me (you are still patronising but I will deal) and it worked!

that is what that was about. ty

Explain this. Because I have no idea why my push should feel different because you're a hydra.
That doesn't even begin to make sense, frankly.

people treat hydras differently a lot of people hate hydras on this site. you either understand this basic concept or you don't

*shrug*

1. Thor points out a valid meta point about Nacho playing badly as town.
2. Mollie uses meta to explain why Nacho is town because he's playing badly.
3. Mollie is confused by Thor.

1. okay
2. erm that isn't quite what happened
3. yes but since you are scum it makes perfect sense

I am more confused now.

no you are not you are scum and trying to hide behind wordplay as if that will save your scummy butt

So game is back on despite Majiffy telling you to stop and you stopping on his word?
Ooooookay.
Still waiting for you to do more than throw random and nonsensical scumtells at me, accept my responses are true, and then bend the answers into still being scumtells.
I'm sure that's how scumhunting works - because town would totally respond to that differently than scum.

lol thor attempts to rewrite history itt

what I am saying is town thor makes sense

you are not making sense

and I still say you haven't been reading my posts unless they are addressed to you

HUGE SCUMTELL

People are raging lackwits about Majiffy/Mollie - that is a blatant scum Mollie, and I want to hear reasons from people why it looks town when it is lying and misrepping.

I think you are doing the misrepping here and being opportunistic over mine and majiffy's dissonance. majiffy and I argue a lot in mafia we have 2 completely different approaches anybody who has played with us knows this

there is no way you can look at us and not say we are town for bloody obvious reasons but oh hai there are some moar of your posts I wanna address

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1885 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 2:20 pm

In post 1848, Thor665 wrote:Also, if I'm honest, I think I just consider Red to be the most likely to be lynched of players I want to lynch. B&tB and Slandaar both seem immune from getting votes for some reason.

oh hai guess who the nks are gonna be!

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1886 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 2:25 pm

also the crap about nacho not massclaiming as town is dumb

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1887 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 2:34 pm

also I guess this is multiball since thor said there will 3 to 4 nks we really need to pay attention to this cos it changes the dynamics

Thor665 · Post Post #1888 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 2:36 pm

In post 1884, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:I am back to thinking you are scum. why? cos what I said made perfect sense and you know it but are still trying to push a crappy point

Then explain how what I said was hypocritical. Because if what you said made sense then you should be able to do so.

In post 1884, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:I was asking you to stop that condescending tone with me (you are still patronising but I will deal) and it worked!

that is what that was about. ty

I remember the last time you got dodgy about what you were saying and then went into a 'how dare you personally attack me spiel'

You didn't flip town.

In post 1884, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:people treat hydras differently a lot of people hate hydras on this site. you either understand this basic concept or you don't

*shrug*

How am I treating you differently?
Again, you're dodging the original point of the question to give a sideways answer.

In post 1884, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:2. erm that isn't quite what happened

So what did happen?

In post 1884, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:and I still say you haven't been reading my posts unless they are addressed to you

HUGE SCUMTELL

I've been doing that to a lot of posts this game.
Heck, i still haven't finished my catchup and no one has mentioned it so I'm planning to let that slide too.

In post 1884, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:I think you are doing the misrepping here and being opportunistic over mine and majiffy's dissonance. majiffy and I argue a lot in mafia we have 2 completely different approaches anybody who has played with us knows this

there is no way you can look at us and not say we are town for bloody obvious reasons but oh hai there are some moar of your posts I wanna address

It's actually quite easy for me to point and you and call you scum.
What are the obvious reasons I'm missing?

Thor665 · Post Post #1889 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 2:38 pm

In post 1885, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 1848, Thor665 wrote:Also, if I'm honest, I think I just consider Red to be the most likely to be lynched of players I want to lynch. B&tB and Slandaar both seem immune from getting votes for some reason.
oh hai guess who the nks are gonna be!

I would love that if it were true.

In post 1886, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:also the crap about nacho not massclaiming as town is dumb

I agree.

In post 1887, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:also I guess this is multiball since thor said there will 3 to 4 nks we really need to pay attention to this cos it changes the dynamics

It's because I'm an informed townie or scum, there is no other way to have this information at my fingertips.

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1890 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 3:25 pm

In post 1888, Thor665 wrote:Then explain how what I said was hypocritical. Because if what you said made sense then you should be able to do so.

I did. you put a vote on a weak wagon when there were other options in play do you know who does that as a vet player and then tries to berate other players for doing the same it is scum that is who. I was wondering if it was a town tell for you but I guess it isn't

I remember the last time you got dodgy about what you were saying and then went into a 'how dare you personally attack me spiel'

You didn't flip town.

and I remember the last time you tried to use this as a scumtell for me. pretty sure you were culted at that point

How am I treating you differently?
Again, you're dodging the original point of the question to give a sideways answer.

no I am not

So what did happen?

I've been doing that to a lot of posts this game.
Heck, i still haven't finished my catchup and no one has mentioned it so I'm planning to let that slide too.

I mentioned it

I just said it

ahdjkshflwerhjdjsdnisawlqewiz

It's actually quite easy for me to point and you and call you scum.
What are the obvious reasons I'm missing?

no it isn't. it is why you are going about it all clumsily

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1891 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 3:27 pm

In post 1889, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1885, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 1848, Thor665 wrote:Also, if I'm honest, I think I just consider Red to be the most likely to be lynched of players I want to lynch. B&tB and Slandaar both seem immune from getting votes for some reason.
oh hai guess who the nks are gonna be!
I would love that if it were true.

In post 1886, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:also the crap about nacho not massclaiming as town is dumb
I agree.

In post 1887, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:also I guess this is multiball since thor said there will 3 to 4 nks we really need to pay attention to this cos it changes the dynamics
It's because I'm an informed townie or scum, there is no other way to have this information at my fingertips.

GOD FFS LYNCH THIS

PLZ

ISO · Post Post #1892 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 3:49 pm

In post 1883, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:A. By this logic voting for anyone but Nacho is a waste of time, since he'll probably be lynched today.
B. How was your B&B vote supposed to help town, seeing as that lynch is even less likely than fuzzy?
A. Not at all, especially if you oppose the wagon. There's a difference between 'unlikely to have a lynch' and 'you're not even trying to get the lynch to happen'
B. Ah, right, because 2 votes vs. 3 votes. Total value change.

A. It would be futile, so I haven't bothered.
B. My point wasn't that my vote was better, it was that our votes were essentially the same and you were criticizing me for something you were doing as well.

In post 1883, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:First of all, no I wasn't. If anything I'm softly against it. Second of all, you've yet to tell me what would be wrong with that even if I was.
First of all - yes, you were softly supporting it.
Second off, yes, I did explain how it was a scum strategy and why it was "wrong".

I was admitting that I could be wrong in my opposition. Frankly anyone who won't admit they could be wrong is disingenuous. If being lukewarm about things is a scumtell you had better lynch me now because I'm gonna keep doing it. You did explain why it could be a scum strategy, and I explained how the opposite could be too, and you ignored me.

In post 1883, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:As far as I'm concerned responding to this with an emoticon is like saying "I can't rebut this point but I'm going to hope someone else does it for me or everyone assumes there is something obviously wrong with it". I can see that you're probably doing this explicitly to get on my nerves, and I wish you wouldn't.
Well...considering your "presented case" on Fuzzy. Yeah, I figured what was wrong with it was self-evident to everyone without me having to say it.
Should I just say 'I think you're pulling my leg in an unimpressive way' instead of posting the emoticon? I can do that.

Yes, but it would be better if you actually gave reasons for disbelieving me.

In post 1883, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:Act like it somehow means something? Townies don't need to manipulate to make their points, and if you do need to then your point wasn't very good in the first place.
It's a point you agreed was true, so...yeah, if I exaggerated reality to show something that was true to be true I really must be weird.
What are you even arguing here? You're just randomly slapping at nothing and implying it is scummy without being able to say it or to show why it is.

You're seriously trying to tell me manipulating others' words isn't scummy? Get real.

In post 1883, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1881, Cephrir wrote:It was hostile based on the fact that it was obviously going to result in a big long argument with me, which of course it did.
Yeah, how *dare* we scumhunt!
Wait...

You keep taking my quotes out of context. The fact remains that your post was hostile, and I was defending my assertion that it was hostile, and here you go off on this tangent.

In post 1883, Thor665 wrote:
I'm not really seeing the gameplay shift in Fuzzy. He looks quite similar in that game. He's certainly lacking in explanations, consistent posting, and a lot else. Is it just the lack of bandwagon hopping then?

He has explanations, though, at least sometimes. They aren't always on time, but they exist, and you won't see him calling someone town then heel-face-turning on them with no stated reason.

Thor665 · Post Post #1893 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 4:03 pm

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:I did. you put a vote on a weak wagon when there were other options in play do you know who does that as a vet player and then tries to berate other players for doing the same it is scum that is who. I was wondering if it was a town tell for you but I guess it isn't

That's not hypocritical - that's play you disagree wit.
You called me hypocritical, so...y'know, back that gak up. Explain the hypocrisy.

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:and I remember the last time you tried to use this as a scumtell for me. pretty sure you were culted at that point

Did I?
Link to the argument?

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
How am I treating you differently?
Again, you're dodging the original point of the question to give a sideways answer.
no I am not

Okay, you're not.
So...*how am I treating you differently*
Y'know, the answer to the question you didn't dodge yet again?

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
So what did happen?

So what did happen?

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:I mentioned it

I just said it

ahdjkshflwerhjdjsdnisawlqewiz

No, you accused me of not reading *your* posts that aren't directly about me.
That's a different accusation.

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
It's actually quite easy for me to point and you and call you scum.
What are the obvious reasons I'm missing?
no it isn't. it is why you are going about it all clumsily

...okay...and what are the obvious reasons I'm missing oh wonderful person who isn't dodging questions?

Thor665 · Post Post #1894 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 4:09 pm

In post 1892, Cephrir wrote:A. It would be futile, so I haven't bothered.
B. My point wasn't that my vote was better, it was that our votes were essentially the same and you were criticizing me for something you were doing as well.

A. If it's "futile" can't you do something better with your vote?
B. And I noted how they were different, which makes perfect sense considering the reasoning I attacked you for, which was lack of a push. So...yeah, I'm not sold.

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:I was admitting that I could be wrong in my opposition. Frankly anyone who won't admit they could be wrong is disingenuous. If being lukewarm about things is a scumtell you had better lynch me now because I'm gonna keep doing it. You did explain why it could be a scum strategy, and I explained how the opposite could be too, and you ignored me.

Do you think fencesitting is a scumtell?

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:Yes, but it would be better if you actually gave reasons for disbelieving me.

I have - I called it a policy lynch case and questioned your logic of not finding it to be playstyle based.
That's actually rather explicitly attacking your points...don't blame me that there aren't many points and they're vague, that's on you.

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:You're seriously trying to tell me manipulating others' words isn't scummy? Get real.

What I'm saying is pointing out something, and having you agree that it's true, but complaining that I was tricky in trying to get you to admit it isn't exactly manipulating in the way that is scummy.
Could you explain why this is a scum strategy to get people to admit to something that is true?

In post 1890, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:He has explanations, though, at least sometimes. They aren't always on time, but they exist, and you won't see him calling someone town then heel-face-turning on them with no stated reason.

So is it the heel/face tun that's scummy?

BeautyAndTheBeast · Post Post #1895 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 4:14 pm

You really screwed those quotes up, Thor.

Why are you ignoring me when I'm telling you I have a town read on Ryu?

ISO · Post Post #1896 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 4:23 pm

I feel like you're responding to each of my points in a vacuum as though the rest of the argument that went before them didn't exist and mingling the parts of the argument together when I was just trying to respond to specific points. One way or another we seem to start in one place and you end up steering me into arguing about something else.

Specifically I'm referring to the first and third quoteblocks, which I'll ignore for now because of this. Quick responses to the rest.

Fencesitting can be scummy, but it isn't always. It's scummy if someone does it all the time, but not if they do it once- you're allowed to not be certain about cases every now and then.

Thor wrote:Could you explain why this is a scum strategy to get people to admit to something that is true?

Yes. You could just point out something that's true, and have an honest and straightforward argument, rather than trying to make yourself look smart.

Thor wrote:So is it the heel/face tun that's scummy?

It's all of it. The bandwagon hopping, the sudden reversal on me, and the lack of reasons on everything.

Thor665 · Post Post #1897 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 4:36 pm

In post 1896, Cephrir wrote:Specifically I'm referring to the first and third quoteblocks, which I'll ignore for now because of this.

I look forward to you coming back to them though.

In post 1896, Cephrir wrote:Fencesitting can be scummy, but it isn't always. It's scummy if someone does it all the time, but not if they do it once- you're allowed to not be certain about cases every now and then.

Didn't you set it up to be an ongoing thing?
And, also, you apparently then agree with me hat it is quite normal to look at someone doing fencesitty behavior and be disconcerted by it? At that stage, I don't get your issue with me having an issue with your stated stance.

In post 1896, Cephrir wrote:Yes. You could just point out something that's true, and have an honest and straightforward argument, rather than trying to make yourself look smart.

So...it's not scummy, it's Thor being a ponce?
I thought you said it was scummy?

In post 1896, Cephrir wrote:It's all of it. The bandwagon hopping, the sudden reversal on me, and the lack of reasons on everything.

None of which you saw/recall in that other game - and that's why he's scum in this game?

In post 1895, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:You really screwed those quotes up, Thor.

Why are you ignoring me when I'm telling you I have a town read on Ryu?

1. Yes, I did.

2. Why, would you like to explain to me why you do?

Red Ryu · Post Post #1898 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 4:46 pm

Back from V/LA, Thor is derping hard.

We need to stop distracting from the Nacho wagon.

BB convince me Thor is scum over dumb, I still remain that he is dumb town.

I'll click my ISO button to see where I left off.

Bacde you still my Bro?

Red Ryu · Post Post #1899 (ISO) » Sun May 19, 2013 4:47 pm

God I'm back on page 41, welp, gonna super skim this.