Newbie 1351: Hyrule's Under Attack.. Interesting..-GAME OVER

[fferyllt]

Z7. Post was entirely nonsensical in all regards- full of contradictons an very vauge in the points that he did not contradict himself in. I wouldnt read too much into unless you are willing to consider z7 as scum

This would probably be a good time to post that ISO fragment I was working on before the thread was locked at the end of day 2.

Z7 921 Complaint about thread length/posting rate. This was right after Revenus asked to be replaced out. Didn't think about that at the time, but the timing is interesting.

1189 Z7's first post after GiF replaces in. He's back to the long blogpost style

1201 GiF questions me about leaving the Z7 wagon.

1205 GiF says VE is town

1263 GiF readslist. Z7 is leaning town

1307 GiF now says Z7 is transparent but erratic town

1339 Z7 says GiF and I are his strongest town reads. He's had GiF/Revenus number 2 in his scumometer forever, but this is still a strong statement I think.

Day 1 ended somewhere around here.

[Ineffective]

This is all interesting... But would you care to comment on what you think the motivation behind all of that is? Im seeing narrative but i am not seeing anything that will spark a good debate

[fferyllt]

As I was speed-reading the ISOs after GiF hammered I was looking for Z7-Rev associative stuff - untoward buddying or unusual distancing. I could make a very weak argument that Fropome was avoiding Rev, though not the reverse. Z7 and Rev not so much. And Z7 and GiF also not so much, though Z7 tends to talk about people rather than to people unless someone directly questions him.

[Ineffective]

Z7 why do you think VE is more likely to be scum than mac?

[Ineffective]

GM... Take a stance somewhere... I have suspended my paranoia and have been hoping for you to have some sort of conviction. Who is scum.

[Ineffective]

Mac... Get the fuck in the game and do... Anything

[Ineffective]

VE put your vote somewhere more useful thanks.

[Z7-852]

My last post wasn't really well structured. I will try to clarify my thoughts little better now. I should really read my posts through before submitting them. It's not always easy to make my ideas clear in foreign language.

Busing argument (#2363) against Mac/GuyInFreezer team team doesn't work for me. Mac was on the wagon where GuyInFreezer self-hammered. Why would scum self-hammer if their partner is already on the wagon? Normally by self-hammering scum tries to deny further discussion and prevent people to find their partner out. Mac by himself would make a good scum candidate but latest flip just makes it look weird that mac and GuyInFreezer would be working together.

I don't buy mafia no-kill if both power roles are real. Then it would be too much a uphill battle for scum to win without killing during night. But if one of the claims is false then it would make sense for one of the "false-claimers" to do a no-kill to draw attention toward someone else. Inneffective (#2374) had the same idea than I was trying to say. If VisceraEyes or goodmorning is scum then they have incentive to do a no-kill, but no other player would do it.

Normally I would agree with Ineffective (#2370) that voluntary claim is less scummy than one made under pressure, but claiming to be a doctor when it doesn't give any real information. There haven't been a no-kill before so doctor cannot verify another player.

Scumometer (tm)
fferyllt < Ineffective < Mac < goodmorning < VisceraEyes

[Mac]

Mac... Get the fuck in the game and do... Anything

I was out. I'm a little broken. I'll be here either later or on Monday to sort stuff out.

One thing I didn't like was your post a bit back that said if it's not me it's one of the PRs. I'm working pff memory here though, but it looked like setting up mislynches. Also ffs meta on gm is VERY interesting to say the least.

[fferyllt]

I checked the timestamps on the two posts. GM's roleclaim happened on May 6 in this thread. The post in the QT was made in Apr 24.

It occurred to me that our push back about "keep" being a crumb could have suggested retroactive crumb-claiming as a strategy in the other game. But, the timestamps rule that out.

[TraceyLyn11]

VOTE COUNT 3.2

[L-4] Z7-852:

[L-4] fferyllt:

[L-3] Mac: (Ineffective)

[L-3] Ineffective: (VisceraEyes)

[L-3] VisceraEyes: (Z7-852)

[L-4] goodmorning:

Not Voting:

3 (fferyllt, Mac, goodmorning)

• With six alive, it takes four to lynch.
  
• Day Three's deadline: June 05, 2013 CST or in (expired on 2013-06-05 00:00:00).
  
• V/LA: goodmorning ((expired on 2013-05-20 00:00:00))

[Ineffective]

I checked the timestamps on the two posts. GM's roleclaim happened on May 6 in this thread. The post in the QT was made in Apr 24.

It occurred to me that our push back about "keep" being a crumb could have suggested retroactive crumb-claiming as a strategy in the other game. But, the timestamps rule that out.

So if i understand this correctly... You thought GM's crumb could have been legit in this thread and inspired a fake attempt in another thread, but since it happened on the other thread first, the thought was dispelled?

I read through your post several times trying to figure out what you meant by that because... If gms crumb attempt was fake in this thread and he was looking back for something to claim was a crumb, the QT would only confirm that it is something he would do... Especially considering it came before this threads attempt

[Ineffective]

Mac... Get the fuck in the game and do... Anything

I was out. I'm a little broken. I'll be here either later or on Monday to sort stuff out.

One thing I didn't like was your post a bit back that said if it's not me it's one of the PRs. I'm working pff memory here though, but it looked like setting up mislynches. Also ffs meta on gm is VERY interesting to say the least.

why did you notice this, and not VE's post that was seemingly attempting the same thing if you look at POE that way?

To be clear i believe first and foremost that one of th e PR's is fake and that you happene to be the best lynch from an objective perspective because not everyone is convinced of that. Nobody seems very willing to lynch a pr claim today, and if it happens that i am wrong and Z7 or ffer is scum (really cant imagine ffer as scum btw) then lynching a VT is the best option because it isnt likely that mafia will pull off a kill if both prs are real. Hence we earn yet another ML

[fferyllt]

I read through your post several times trying to figure out what you meant by that because... If gms crumb attempt was fake in this thread and he was looking back for something to claim was a crumb, the QT would only confirm that it is something he would do... Especially considering it came before this threads attempt

this is what I was thinking when I read the QT.

Later, I wondered about the timing, and if the suspicions of faking here had inspired the idea in the other game.

But, the timing rules that out.

FTR GM did not do a fake claim in the other game. She was NKed by the SK, and never under heavy lynch pressure.

[Ineffective]

This is causing me to want to stop suspending my suspicion and push on him again... Im kinda discouraged because of my last attempt. at the time i was 100% confident and had to force myself to considering other options for the sake of being able to lynch the other scum. Tp do that i actually had to convince myself that there was a possibility that he wasnt scum because i couldnt fathom the odds of flipping the lynch from one scum to another, and i am always more inclined to deathtunnel when i am confident.

[fferyllt]

It has undermined the claim for me as well. I'm in a self-imposed holding pattern until GM comes back from vacation.

[Ineffective]

Oohhhhhhh


and i just....

Realised....

JKing mac would be the perfect copout claim for a no-kill

Thinkkkkkk about it.

[Mac]

Some interesting points being raised about goodmorning.

Reading back, it looks like this could be a bit of a setup to mislynch me. I was her only pairing as GIF's partner, which actually sets it up nicely for me to be lynched next day (today).

The reference from ff from another game is very interesting, as well. I'm starting to lean GMscum now.

This game, man.

[VisceraEyes]

Uuuugggghhhhhhh.

No kill nights are the worst because there's always that fear that scum are fucking with

you specifically

:/

Okay, what if we lynch Mac, then decide where to go after that? The most logical assumption is that Mac was jailed/NK prevented. Second most logical would be fferyllt got hit, though wouldn't she have been notified? If she's notified then the second most logical would be that scum withheld NK, which makes sense to either implicate one of the PRs falsely in the case of Z/Inef being scum or to implicate the OTHER PR in the case of GM being scum.

I'm willing to figure out which is most likely with more info...I say we lynch Mac and cross our fingers.

##Unvote
##Vote: Mac

[Mac]

Coming from me, it doesn't make sense. I'd prefer we didn't do it, and I can see why you want to, but I'm really starting to believe the possibility of GM fake-claiming or scum no-killing.

[Ineffective]

Uuuugggghhhhhhh.

No kill nights are the worst because there's always that fear that scum are fucking with

you specifically

:/

Okay, what if we lynch Mac, then decide where to go after that? The most logical assumption is that Mac was jailed/NK prevented. Second most logical would be fferyllt got hit, though wouldn't she have been notified? If she's notified then the second most logical would be that scum withheld NK, which makes sense to either implicate one of the PRs falsely in the case of Z/Inef being scum or to implicate the OTHER PR in the case of GM being scum.

I'm willing to figure out which is most likely with more info...I say we lynch Mac and cross our fingers.

##Unvote
##Vote: Mac

my current theory is that GM tried to kill ffer then claimed to JK mac to frame him

[fferyllt]

@VE what are your thoughts about my post #2263?

[VisceraEyes]

Was Mac under the same kind of scrutiny in Poetic as he was in this game? If not then it's not a really good meta comparison - remember that Mac was at L-1 at the time of his post; and if Mac had ended up getting lynched after GiF put him on L-1 then his attack and subsequent vote would have made GiF look REALLY good superficially.

[fferyllt]

Was Mac under the same kind of scrutiny in Poetic as he was in this game? If not then it's not a really good meta comparison - remember that Mac was at L-1 at the time of his post; and if Mac had ended up getting lynched after GiF put him on L-1 then his attack and subsequent vote would have made GiF look REALLY good superficially.

That was his post after L-1 in the Poetic game. So yeah, the pressure was similar.

What do you think of GM's crumb stuff from the Donner Party game?

[VisceraEyes]

I think it borders on using external factors as a means of hunting scum XD

Let me go take a closer look. You're talking about the bit where she was all "Let me go see if there's something I can use as a crumb" right?