Xenoblade Mafia (Game Over)

[²]

budermar/ffery do you have any completed games as 2?

No, only ongoing ones.

- b

[²]

why can't you be scum
i wanted to lynch you so badly

If you can't have what you want, want what you can have ♥

- b

[²]

Nacho, what do you think of my wagon analysis? (if you can put aside your idea of us being scum for just a moment and look at it)

- b

You'll find wagon analysis won't be as reliable when so much of the conversation has been dominated by us. Scum is not going to pick a side in this argument until they know what the fuck is going on. What do you think of my townblock (if I added you)?

I'm talking about the wagon analysis I did on the Sven wagon.

I'll find the latest version of your townblock and comment on it.

- b

[Nachomamma8]

why can't you be scum
i wanted to lynch you so badly

If you can't have what you want, want what you can have ♥

- b

i'll get you one day babe

[Mac]

Wait, who thought Mac was scummy?

Well he jumped us when I refuted his argument, asserting that I was trying to discredit him by asking for an explanation, which I thought looked scummy. I'm not sure about f's read on Mac, though.

- b

whaaaaat

this is flat out not true. 1) I did not "jump you" - I asked with your scumreads were so tentative. 2) i said you were trying to discredit me my lumping me in with mollie's tunneling. nothing else. not because you "asked for an explanation"

[Nachomamma8]

Reading page 2 at the moment. Sven is pretty town: his reasoning is solid. He is NOT wrong in saying that even if someone claims Miller, if they are universally town read they will probably be killed, regardless of claiming Miller.

I liked this. It was an unpopular position, and it shows another form of independent thought.

WIFOM yay.

stop this please. it doesn't help.

usually when scum finds antitown shit like this, they go crazy on it. Mac did not.

I liked orc for town early on and think I still do. players like nacho, mollie & co are probably a lot better at reading him than I am but so far he's playing pretty similar to the poetic justice game that finished not long back. however I am unaware of his scum game as of yet so I'm not sure how comparable his town game is to his scum game.

that said, your attack is pretty brave since he's been townread by alot of players so far. does that make you town? possibly, it's very putting-yourself-out-there and it's not something I'd expect from scum. however I don't know your scum game. do you have any completed scum games I can take a look at?

I think the progression on this read great. Initially found Varsoon scummy, sees him attack an obvtown player he was afraid to attack before, has a little residue paranoia because he's unfamiliar with a scumgame.

actually that's a dumb question and should be ignored.

super fucking genuine.
I don't think that Mac would be this open about his thought process as scum, especially when he's facing off against the same group that just nailed him earlier

TD wagon.. hard to tell with TD. his sven vote is stupid and his "everyone hates me " post is stupid but I can't differentiate that between scum/dumb town play at the moment. Aj's vote on TD is a big misrep too, TD did not vote Nacho because "no scum would ever claim miller" but because Nacho felt opportunistic. I mean, yeah sure that is SO far from the truth about Nacho but that's a big stretch of a misrep. since then, Aj has tunneled the shit out of him and apparently believes TD is "conf scum" but how he came to this conclusion is anyone's guess.

And this is very, very solid. He's seeing things he could easily attack, picking up on it, throwing them on the table for observation and not attacking them.

Vote: AJ the Epic

Seriously considering this myself.

VOTE: AJ The Epic

TD, check the timestamps on this one. He saw my vote, was like "yeah, I was thinking the same thing", ISO'ed AJ, voted. I see no reason for a posture that you're gonna turn into a stance 15 minutes later, so this felt good to me.

I get the feeling ghost is tunneling me. like hell I'm "agreeing with nacho to look town." fucking ridiculous reasoning. Apparently to ghost alot of my posts "look town" but I'm still scum. I'm bored of him tunneling me already.

I tunneled the fuck out of him in Poetic Justice, as did Marangal. None of his responses looked anything like this.

Mac's vote looks bad. He presents a well thought-out case on me, then waits for Nacho to vote. I've got to run to work (I just needed to catch up before you guys let loose the flood gates) so I'll respond more to his post later.

just because nacho voted before me, doesn't mean I was waiting for him. regardless, nacho's a strong town read of mine so I'd feel pretty comfortable with him anyway.

This backs my original thought up, and the fact that he was like "no, that's not happened but even if it did I wouldn't give a shit". Beautiful.

why are you hanging fire?

I still don't think that should effect how cautious buldermar is. it's out of character.

You're going to have to examplify this, because I don't see it, and it looks a bit like a silly excuse to sheep mollie's tunneling.

- b

no. no it's not? you are usually an aggresive player and not afraid to throw out a scumread. you spent most of poetic justice preaching to the high heavens about how Majiffy was correctly scum. now, your scumreads are tenative, and you are making an effort to discredit me by lumping me in with mollie's sheeping which is completely untrue.

VOTE: 2

I am more than comfortable with this now.

p-edit: a little better. I'm still happy with this vote.

Fucking awesome trajectory in this vote, ffery back me up on this one.

[Nachomamma8]

Why is Varsoon town?

I'm literally too tired to explain another townread.

But I can urge you to join me on this:

Vote: AJ the Epic

[²]

3. Andrius
4. BeautyAndTheBeast (Majiffy + pirate mollie)
5. BROseidon
6. Cabd
8. Ghostlin
9. GuyInFreezer
11. Mac
13. orcinus_theoriginal
14. RachMarie
18. TiphaineDeath
20. Varsoon

I'm not lynching any of these people. Most of them I'm not lynching ever, but there's too many people in here for me to actually say that. I would like everyone in this list to focus in on each other if they aren't comfortable with each other, though.

Havn't talked to f about Andrius yet. (correction, I talked to her while making this post and she has a strong town read on him, which I'm inclined to trust)
Majiffy/mollie is like 95%+ town.
BRO I havn't looked into.
Initially I thought Cabd looked bad, but his posts has been looking good later on. Also, he made one post that I thought was very indicative of a town mindset IIRC.
Ghostlin I havn't looked into.
GiF I think could still be scum because of that weird jump on the Sven wagon asserting that Sven claiming two roles is scummy (but he could just not know better, that's plausible too).
Mac I've looked at, but I can't read him for shit - I felt the exact same way in that other game. I also talked to f a bunch about it and she doesn't feel like she can confidently read him either
I'm trusting f on her town-read of orc because she's been right about him every other time and she has previously read him based off of only one or two posts.
Rach always just looks anti-town to me, and I havn't found any clear pattern. I like her persona, she just never appears to be particularly engaged in the game to me.
TD still looks scummy to me - especially when you weight in that the others from my Sven-wagon analysis doesn't otherwise stand out as scummy. f disagrees, though.
Varsoon doesn't look particularly town to me.

To sum up: I disagree only significantly with your read on TD.

[²]

Wait, who thought Mac was scummy?

Well he jumped us when I refuted his argument, asserting that I was trying to discredit him by asking for an explanation, which I thought looked scummy. I'm not sure about f's read on Mac, though.

- b

whaaaaat

this is flat out not true. 1) I did not "jump you" - I asked with your scumreads were so tentative. 2) i said you were trying to discredit me my lumping me in with mollie's tunneling. nothing else. not because you "asked for an explanation"

I guess the burden is on me to prove that you jumped on us, which I shall do.

- b

[Mac]

Feel free. I would like to see this, cos I personally don't feel I jumped on you in any way.

[²]

Fucking awesome trajectory in this vote, ffery back me up on this one.

Theif.

I agree, though. dots aren't overdone, which after the PJ game I think I would notice. I had him on it early that game but lost that thread for a while.

- f

[Varsoon]

@2, I've had you has a scum-lean for most the game so far.
*crosses arms*

Why vote AJ, Nacho?

[²]

I ask for you to specify:

buldermar you are being very tentative with your scum reads. And I can't remember you ever being this tentative.

I think I've been pretty straightforward, I just havn't spend time trying to read all of the players in this game yet. Which of my reads do you think I'm being tentative with? I'll try to elaborate on my thoughts.

- b

why are you hanging fire?

I still don't think that should effect how cautious buldermar is. it's out of character.

You're going to have to examplify this, because I don't see it, and it looks a bit like a silly excuse to sheep mollie's tunneling.

- b

Town:
Nacho
B & B
Orc
Sven
Maybe Vasoon

Scum:
At least one of {TD, GiF, Cabd}
Maybe TMTOL
Maybe AJ (based on f's opinion)

- b

Mac:

At least one of {TD, GiF, Cabd} because of post 1139. My quite simple hypothesis that has not yet been falsified is that a lot of players will, as scum, jump on the biggest/most promising wagon early on and do so with an unoriginal reason, but nonetheless a reason. These are the candidates because B & B is almost without a doubt town.

I have, however, town read individual posts of GiF and Cabd, which means that my scum read on TD is that much stronger. The reason why we're not voting TD is because f, orc and Nacho is convinced that he's town (which I still disagree with).

Does this clarify?
- b

Then you continue to claim that I'm not doing what I usually do without specifying what that is. You repeat yourself, asserting that my scumreads are tentative - which is what I questioned and wanted you to elaborate on. You didn't mention how my explanation wasn't satisfactory. In addition, you claim that I was making an effort to discredit you by lumping you in with mollie's tunneling, when I was pointing out that you were looking opportunistic by not elaborating on what you mean with tentative.

Then you jumped on us:

why are you hanging fire?

I still don't think that should effect how cautious buldermar is. it's out of character.

You're going to have to examplify this, because I don't see it, and it looks a bit like a silly excuse to sheep mollie's tunneling.

- b

no. no it's not? you are usually an aggresive player and not afraid to throw out a scumread. you spent most of poetic justice preaching to the high heavens about how Majiffy was correctly scum. now, your scumreads are tenative, and you are making an effort to discredit me by lumping me in with mollie's sheeping which is completely untrue.

VOTE: 2

I am more than comfortable with this now.

p-edit: a little better. I'm still happy with this vote.

[²]

@2, I've had you has a scum-lean for most the game so far.
*crosses arms*

Why vote AJ, Nacho?

Okay. Where do you mention any reason for this scum-lean?

- b

[Mac]

Hey look

buldermar you are being very tentative with your scum reads. And I can't remember you ever being this tentative.

I think I've been pretty straightforward, I just havn't spend time trying to read all of the players in this game yet. Which of my reads do you think I'm being tentative with? I'll try to elaborate on my thoughts.

- b

your scum reads. they are "maybe A, maybe B, and one of {X/Y/Z} - it's cautious for you.

How the hell is that being cautious? Is it not plausible that I simply havn't made a strong scum read (not counting TD) at this point in time?

- b

if we were like 10 pages in and 200 posts then I would accept this counter argument. but as it stands there are 54 pages and 1342 posts and you are telling me that you have not gathered a single strong scum read from any of them? this is either poor scumhunting or fencesitting, and since I know you are a good player, I'm going for the latter.[/quote]

clarified.

[²]

I think Mac is probably town because of 1534.

- b

[Varsoon]

@2, I've had you has a scum-lean for most the game so far.
*crosses arms*

Why vote AJ, Nacho?

Okay. Where do you mention any reason for this scum-lean?

- b

Eh, Iso me.
If there's not any good reason in there, then, gut, I guess.

Regardless, I'd like to see your flip.

[²]

Which I then refuted:

buldermar you are being very tentative with your scum reads. And I can't remember you ever being this tentative.

I think I've been pretty straightforward, I just havn't spend time trying to read all of the players in this game yet. Which of my reads do you think I'm being tentative with? I'll try to elaborate on my thoughts.

- b

your scum reads. they are "maybe A, maybe B, and one of {X/Y/Z} - it's cautious for you.

How the hell is that being cautious? Is it not plausible that I simply havn't made a strong scum read (not counting TD) at this point in time?

- b[/quote

if we were like 10 pages in and 200 posts then I would accept this counter argument. but as it stands there are 54 pages and 1342 posts and you are telling me that you have not gathered a single strong scum read from any of them? this is either poor scumhunting or fencesitting, and since I know you are a good player, I'm going for the latter.

I'm about to lose my temper, but I'll try to remain calm. I have not read nearly any of the longer posts, and many of the shorter ones, just to stay up with the pace of this game. It's inadequate time if anything, which does result in poor scumhunting in the sense that scumhunting efficiency correlates with time invested. I've asked f to sign up as a hydra in games with me rather than individual players because that way I hoped to not be forced to spend more time that I can afford right now (she can confirm, but that probably doesn't work for you).

- b

[²]

@2, I've had you has a scum-lean for most the game so far.
*crosses arms*

Why vote AJ, Nacho?

Okay. Where do you mention any reason for this scum-lean?

- b

Eh, Iso me.
If there's not any good reason in there, then, gut, I guess.

Regardless, I'd like to see your flip.

You mean "I'd like to see you flip", I hope.

- b

[Mac]

WHY HAS THAT QUOTE NOT WORKED AGAIN?!

in poetic justice ffery was very conservative - something which I called her out on. she was indie.

in poetic justice, you were not afraid to throw out a scumread. you were town.

in xenoblade mafia, you are both being cautious, "maybe X, maybe Y" kinda reads. Then you go all "I'm going to lose my temper" for like no reason just because I'm questioning (nope, not tunneling either) you about your reads.

[Mac]

i haven't read the p-edits.

but you quoted the very example I provided in the post where I voted you.

[²]

I'm just assuming that there isn't any reason for your scum-lean.

- b

[Mac]

oh shit I didn't see that refute post.

[²]

WHY HAS THAT QUOTE NOT WORKED AGAIN?!

in poetic justice ffery was very conservative - something which I called her out on. she was indie.

in poetic justice, you were not afraid to throw out a scumread. you were town.

in xenoblade mafia, you are both being cautious, "maybe X, maybe Y" kinda reads. Then you go all "I'm going to lose my temper" for like no reason just because I'm questioning (nope, not tunneling either) you about your reads.

Yes, because I had previously, and several times, explained that I havn't had time to read everything, and you were trying to use it against me (my interpretation).

- b

[Mac]

I don't understand why you were nearly losing your temper. like in pj you lost it at orc which I can understand cos he tunnels like shit but I'm not even a quarter as bad as him. please don't lose it however, I wouldn't like that.

p-edit that refute point is the first time I've seen you say it however that may just be me being a forgetful person.

tell me, does ffery have any strong scumreads she has listed in the thread?