Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

I'm on the offensive cause I'm handing you scum on a platter.

We talked long and hard about this even before the updated claim.

I've got the kids this weekend with the wife out of town. Daughter has a soccer tournament today so I'm going to be away most of today. Hopefully dashie can convince you.

-J, out.

[Scott Brosius]

I don't get on wagons with my top scum read, but since toomai has left, I feel better about acfan. I'm not buying the claim, the actions don't make sense, and the play is indicative of scum who has bought time, regardless of how busy he claims to be. He's trying a halfhearted push against me, and it doesn't really seem like he is trying.

This is the first time Toomai has jumped off a wagon before it crashed and it will be very suspicious if acfan flips scum. Especially since he was at L-1.

unvote, vote: acfan

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Last thing, and CD knows me and can't possibly call this scummy as I did it in a game with him.

I'll go 1 for 1.

If AC flips town, lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure

I

am.

Dashie will yell at me, but that's how I roll

P.edit. There is hope for SB afterall.

[Cheery Pie]

Just checked on my phone, cp, hap was talking about another wagon and you said you were not interested in one. Later you said that you were still against another wagon and I agreed with you with the exception of you cause you lied about the other game we played and townies should not lie, thus you are scum.
Others iirc, we're talking about lynching someone else. The idea was never brought up by dashie or myself first. I actually disagreed with a counter wagon at all (except for you)

Cherry picking is scummy, you either suspect EVERONE who suggested or actually TRIED to start a wagon, or you suspect nobody.

1 person asking if people would consider a wagon is not anywhere as close to scummy as someone who takes action to get one going.

Off the top of my head, Hap & SB actually tried to get new wagons going. Not dashie or myself.

There's different methods to go about doing it, and Dashie's was a leave it to town approach and didn't actually act on it.

As I believe I said earlier on SB's wagon start attempt on Toomai yesterday, actually voting comes across as town to me. Backsiding the possibly of wanting to do it, doesn't.

Last thing, and CD knows me and can't possibly call this scummy as I did it in a game with him.

I'll go 1 for 1.

If AC flips town, lynch me tomorrow. That's how sure

I

am.

Dashie will yell at me, but that's how I roll

I will call you telling me I can't call it scummy scummy though.

So you're buddies with him then? I'll have to see if that fits with Varsoon.

[GoodCopBadCop]

VOTE: acfan

L-1.
Someone hammer him.
---

@CP

Did you get any information from it, or did it only become apparent after his death?

What do you mean?
He invited me into a daytalk enabled QT (neighborhood), that's all.

[GoodCopBadCop]

- GC

[GoodCopBadCop]

I woulda lynched ac1983fan yesterday, just sayin

-Badcop

[Varsoon]

Vote: ACfan

Yeah, okay.

[qwints]

Vote Count 2.4

ac1983fan: Dyslexicon, Jake from Rainbowdash, Varsoon, Scott Brosius, GoodCopBadCop (5)
Cheery Pie: Hapahauli, (1)
Toomai: hp[leaves] (1)
Scott Brosius: ac1983fan (1)
Jake from Rainbowdash: Cheery Pie (1)
Not voting -- Daemon385, Toomai (2)

With eleven alive, it takes six to lynch
Day Two ends in (expired on 2013-06-05 17:00:00)

[Varsoon]

Damn it, Qwints, you ruined my attempt to fake a hammer.

[hapahauli]

We're not hammering acfan this early. We have more than a week left, why rush? Let him respond and let's get extra sure about this.

[hapahauli]

@ Cheery

I was actually suspicious of hapa for it as well, but he's been confirmed town by acfan.

Why are you assuming ac1983fan is town? You clearly don't have a town-read on the guy.

Hell, you

question

ac1983fan about his claim in the post right before:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p4981010

Why did you want a obvtown confirmed? Isn't he already enough of a kill threat?

Where I come from, we call these things "scumslips."

[Varsoon]

We're not hammering acfan this early. We have more than a week left, why rush? Let him respond and let's get extra sure about this.

Hapa, I <3 you.

[ac1983fan]

@ Jake

His amendment is not a scumclaim. I find it questionable, but there are questions to be answered - namely what the scum motivation is for his "amendment."

@ ac1983fan

There are several things I don't understand about your "story":

I withheld the Weak modifier info because I didn't want to let my nightchoice be influenced by possible scum or anyone, really, and I didn't want to make myself a target for NK to frame someone or whatever.
I protected Hapa so he is conf town now.

Your rationale for withholding your full role makes little sense as stated. Why would you be more fearful of getting your night-actions directed as a weak doctor as opposed to a normal 1-shot doctor?

Well, I didn't want to be directed onto a player who turned out to be scum, because I would have died. Maybe I didn't make the best tactical choice, I dunno, I've never played a weak doctor or weak anything before.

1) Busy with real life
2) Had defended myself from my case as much as I possibly could and that was the major topic of discussion
3) I pretty much thought I was going to be lynched (because it happens fairly frequently to me)

This annoys me greatly. If you don't want to be lynched,

POST GODDAMNIT

. Staying silent is the absolute worst thing you can do for yourself and for the town.

I wasn't intending to "stay silent." Just given the speed of the wagon against me, I wasn't expecting for the day to continue on so long without me dying. Moreover, sine D1 is 90% of the time (in my experience anyway) a mislynch I was perfectly OK with being that mislynch.

3. I personally feel the "bloop bloop" comment makes his claim less legit, hes getting run up and he's too nonchalant about it.

Bloop bloop, maybe I just like having fun when I play games.

[ac1983fan]

Dyslexicon

, I'm curious, have you had any suspicion on anyone currently alive besides me? The only votes you've cast have been either on NC or my wagon yesterday and on me today.

[hapahauli]

ac1938fan, can you make some time to be active and post? You will likely get lynched unless you can prove that you're town today through interest/activity.

[hapahauli]

I changed my mind. Ac is probably town.

Cheery is scum. He

scumslipped

.

I posted a brief explanation above, but I want to elaborate a bit:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4981791

I was actually suspicious of hapa for it as well, but he's been confirmed town by acfan.

In post 818, Cheery states that acfan confirmed me as town. This statement

implies

that ac1983fan is town, or that Cheery has a town-read on ac1983fan. This is because I'm only "confirmed town" if ac1983fan is actually the weak doctor. If ac1983fan is scum, he could be covering for his "scumbuddy" for all we know.

And Cheery clearly does not have a town-read on acfan. He's never mentioned it before, and even questions/critcizes ac1983fan right after the above post:

Why did you want a obvtown confirmed? Isn't he already enough of a kill threat?

I re-emphasize that we need to lynch Cheery today. He's spending more time criticizing people's logic than actually scum-hunting. Furthermore, his vote-post on Jake is weak as fuck. Finally, the above makes no sense from a town perspective. He basically assumes in his logic that ac1983fan is town, yet is treating AC like a scum-candidate.

Sheep me pl0x. Hang Cheery.

[hapahauli]

And a last point regarding ac1983fan's "revised" claim, I can't connect any possible mafia-motive to it.

Why would he intentionally revise his claim if he was mafia? It's all risk and no reward.

And for the record, this

mega-downgrades

my town-read on Jake/Rainbow.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

No AC

IS

scum. He hangs today. That's all I'm going to say on it.

-J

[hapahauli]

@ Daemon

I may be wrong but I was curious about the Toomai wagon I think I am oblivious to why vote him? I just need to know what is up with him >.<

Read and figure out for yourself.

I hate to be rude, but don't ask people to do work for you. Many people posted suspicions on Toomai, and it shouldn't take much to read through Day 1 and figure out why people are suspicious of him. If you are curious about a point someone made, I'd be more than happy to answer. However you refusing to do any critical thinking for yourself isn't very townie.

[hapahauli]

No AC

IS

scum. He hangs today. That's all I'm going to say on it.

-J

Why are you pushing for a quick lynch?

You thought AC was town on Day 1, and the only thing that I can find that changed your mind is the "amended claim." What is the scum-motivation behind the claim?

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

We can take all 2 weeks if you want to discuss but AC lynch is happening today. Yes he was a town read day 1, that changed during the night phase. His amended claim is crap and so is his claim he visited you.

Cause you guys can't read through subtle hints, maybe a big smack in the face is what you need.

Please don't make me say anything else or dashie's going to be pissed at me

-J

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

You backing off AC & HPs/CPs reactions to him being run up are quite telling. At least 1 if not 2 people in that group alone is his buddy.

And I swear I hope we have a real doctor, cause I'm gonna need it.

[hapahauli]

@ Rainbowdash

I still can't square your change-of-heart about ac1983fan from a town perspective.

You were expressing so many reservations toward the end of Day 1. Most notably...

Is your argument, scum who is at L-2 and has claimed a PR is INTENTIONALLY staying off the other wagon at L-2 when there is absolutely no guarantee that they are safe? What scum does that? Really?

The only way that ac is scum is if NC is also scum and probably something he sees as more valueable than himself (even then, doesn't make much sense, grab the town points and run). Im just not seeing the point behind scum not doing any sort of self-preservation here. Really why does scum avoid that wagon in this spot? Especially when NC may very well vote ac first.

ac is almost for sure town. Indiviudally he is one of my stronger town reads just by behavior.

Assuming he is town, chances are really really good that at least of of CP/GCBC are scum, regardless of NC alignment. About half the time ive ended up pushing on a PR-claim wagon that was town ive been scum, you don't do that without excellent reasoning. "He isn't doing self preservation" is not excellent reasoning.

And you dropped all this because of NK WIFOM. You, who's played "100 games" on this site should know better than that as town.

And if you became slightly suspicious of AC because of the night kill, I'd be OK with that. It's the fact that you're now unreservedly screaming for his head that gets to me - NK WIFOM is

never

the sole reason to lynch someone.

Overall, your body of analysis/posting that calls ACfan town is far stronger than your recent posts which call AC scum.

Like the main body of your NK analysis makes no sense...

@hap - With that kill acfan is very likely scum. Im happy lynching him today.

Its going to be WIFOM but you should follow here too. Basically the kill is a massive tell. Look who the likely kills would be: Zef and hap. Now approach this from a standpoint of town-acfan. Who is going to die (most likely) assuming both town? Its very clearly Zef. That is a quiet quiet spot that has a loud player replacing in and everypony thinks is town. aka a threat.

On the other hoof, why would scum kill Hap if acfan was town? They wouldn't. Pure and simple they wouldn't because it would likely end with a mislynch of acfan. Scum would be more than happy to keep a prob-town who wants a PR dead alive.

By that logic, acfan cant be town because the "protect" he would have made as town would have been Zef. While im sure he is going to run in and claim that he protected the player who wanted him dead or something... but it doesn't make any sense.

The kill seems to line up with acfan being scum and just making that side kill without really thinking about who he would protect as town. Sometimes the best way to catch scum who has claimed a role (outside of trumping it with role information - which if it exists here shouldn't be said) is to compare it to what they should be doing in that situation. acfan I don't think approached this as he would town (outside of him about to claim "oh I got RBed" or something like that).

Varsoon and Hap are town still though. Pretty sure of that one.

Firstly, you're assuming that a town AC fan would have played his role perfectly optimally. This is an absurdly flawed assumption.

Secondly,

you

were also a plausible NK candidate given how many people thought you were town yesterday. Your entire analysis breaks down when you factor this into account.

Finally, there are plenty of other explanations for Zef getting NK'd that you completely gloss over. The most plausible explanation IMO is that it was a "clean kill." Mafia liked the direction the town was going in and didn't want to disturb the status-quo.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

We can take all 2 weeks if you want to discuss but AC lynch is happening today. Yes he was a town read day 1, that changed during the night phase. His amended claim is crap and so is his claim he visited you.

Cause you guys can't read through subtle hints, maybe a big smack in the face is what you need.

Please don't make me say anything else or dashie's going to be pissed at me

-J