Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[Regfan]

I read into Montys meta what feels like a few weeks ago and I was hoping he'd have more completed games by now but he doesn't. I did notice a few things though going back over his meta; he only has two completed games, Robos PYP (Where he was replaced by DV) but he only had 6 posts inside that game and Newbie 1264 where he was mafia and lynched D2 and here's the Mafia QT where he only posted one time during N1 so him being forgetful to send in a night-kill is more likely than Thor forgetting. His Post 180 in that game looks very similar to his Post 241 in this game too.

So yeah, leaning towards Monty!Scum but still want one more re-read.

[MontyWhittaker]

I read into Montys meta what feels like a few weeks ago and I was hoping he'd have more completed games by now but he doesn't. I did notice a few things though going back over his meta; he only has two completed games, Robos PYP (Where he was replaced by DV) but he only had 6 posts inside that game and Newbie 1264 where he was mafia and lynched D2 and here's the Mafia QT where he only posted one time during N1 so him being forgetful to send in a night-kill is more likely than Thor forgetting. His Post 180 in that game looks very similar to his Post 241 in this game too.

So yeah, leaning towards Monty!Scum but still want one more re-read.

And both of those games are a full year ago, Reg. This is a new, improved Monty. To be honest, I would be so bold as to say that meta can not apply in this case. I mean, you can use it as a reference, but is it going to be useful? Not until these first few "new" games are completed.

The problem is that I was completely active during this time. Had the lack of a kill occurred next week, when I really will be away almost the whole time, I might have understood, but I don't see how that would have happened to anyone. And I know it didn't to me.

[Regfan]

See with Thor I don't have any history of him being inactive or less involved in submitting kills but there is with you; that's why it's much more likely for you to be the one to not submit a kill than him even though the history is based on year-old games. Also you didn't reply to my Post 969.

[MontyWhittaker]

This makes no sense whatsoever given that you claim to have a strong town-read on Commando and a stronger town-read on me in Post 818 combined with the fact that Commandodude mentioned nearly no one in the game given he was nearly never here and the fact that Irish actually attempted to mslynch Commando when he did arrive - You're ignoring a whole other street of interactions there.

And I actually attempted to lynch Irish toward the start of Day 2. I also notice how you are the ever-so-reluctant hammer there.

You see, the problem with your claim of Irish and me collaborating for me to bus him is that there were several times in the day that the tide of public opinion were shifting. It would have been easy, what with you making it possible and all, to shift to a Nekoko wagon. Staying on Irish was not an "easy" choice for town.

I can't see a Thor/Irish scumteam, but I can sure as hell see a Reg/Irish. Look at just this recent post..."Irish attempted to mslynch Commando". Since your first post, you have been trying to nullify the possibility that you are scum with the wording you've chosen, it seems that you've found a way to include yourself with the Town group in each and every post. My vote is staying where it is.

PEdit: There's your response.

[MontyWhittaker]

Looking at the No Kill by the scum, it's interesting to note that while, yes, both Irish and I were posting in the interim of that night, you were not. You have zero posts in any games, any content whatsoever on the site until the No Kill is revealed the next day.

[Regfan]

And I actually attempted to lynch Irish toward the start of Day 2. I also notice how you are the ever-so-reluctant hammer there. You see, the problem with your claim of Irish and me collaborating for me to bus him is that there were several times in the day that the tide of public opinion were shifting. It would have been easy, what with you making it possible and all, to shift to a Nekoko wagon. Staying on Irish was not an "easy" choice for town.

I was reluctant because I didn't see Nekoko / Irish working as a scum-team and I had a scum-read on Nekoko and was paranoid of her claim; that said I wasn't likely to actually throw down a vote on Nekoko and there was near no chance that she would have ended up getting lynched ie. Irish was always going to get lynched - the delay was mostly so I could have a conversation and get reads from Awestfie which she afk'ed out of giving, so no you wouldn't have been able to 'shift votes' at all and atht doesn't change the fact that your case on him and his vote on you looks like an attempt to distance knowing he'd get lynched.

I can't see a Thor/Irish scumteam, but I can sure as hell see a Reg/Irish. Look at just this recent post..."Irish attempted to mslynch Commando". Since your first post, you have been trying to nullify the possibility that you are scum with the wording you've chosen, it seems that you've found a way to include yourself with the Town group in each and every post. My vote is staying where it is.

You've ignored a lot of interactions and are attempting to pretend they're not there; you've ignored anything from Irish towards Commando and here you're attempting to de-credit the point by saying "You're bringing it up to prove you're not scum!" which of course I'm doing, given Commandos posts, Irishs push on Commando as well as my own play and meta it should be blindingly obvious that I'm town (I think Awetsfie knows it too and the sad thing is I think she's attempting to troll the game by not saying it out loud), that combined with something else is really really irritating me right now.

[Regfan]

Looking at the No Kill by the scum, it's interesting to note that while, yes, both Irish and I were posting in the interim of that night, you were not. You have zero posts in any games, any content whatsoever on the site until the No Kill is revealed the next day.

This is the only game I'm in and I generally don't post anywhere on the site other than in games. I only play 1-2 games at a time so I can give the games 100% of my effort which involves checking on the game every few hours (Even during the night-phase; I constantly check to see when the nights ending and I check up on a few other games I'm following alongside it). Heck, the fact that I was the one to hammer ie. Last online before night-started and first to post when day started, heck the fact that I posted 6 minutes after day started should be enough proof that I was constantly checking on the thread and am town.

[MontyWhittaker]

Wow you're dumb.

vote; nekoko

Thought that was the case too.

And I actually attempted to lynch Irish toward the start of Day 2. I also notice how you are the ever-so-reluctant hammer there. You see, the problem with your claim of Irish and me collaborating for me to bus him is that there were several times in the day that the tide of public opinion were shifting. It would have been easy, what with you making it possible and all, to shift to a Nekoko wagon. Staying on Irish was not an "easy" choice for town.

I was reluctant because I didn't see Nekoko / Irish working as a scum-team and I had a scum-read on Nekoko and was paranoid of her claim;

that said I wasn't likely to actually throw down a vote on Nekoko and there was near no chance that she would have ended up getting lynched

ie. Irish was always going to get lynched

I can't see a Thor/Irish scumteam, but I can sure as hell see a Reg/Irish. Look at just this recent post..."Irish attempted to mslynch Commando". Since your first post, you have been trying to nullify the possibility that you are scum with the wording you've chosen, it seems that you've found a way to include yourself with the Town group in each and every post. My vote is staying where it is.

You've ignored a lot of interactions and are attempting to pretend they're not there; you've ignored anything from Irish towards Commando and here you're attempting to de-credit the point by saying "You're bringing it up to prove you're not scum!" which of course I'm doing, given Commandos posts, Irishs push on Commando as well as my own play and meta it should be blindingly obvious that I'm town (I think Awetsfie knows it too and the sad thing is I think she's attempting to troll the game by not saying it out loud), that combined with something else is really really irritating me right now.

Wrong wording, Regfan. I was referring to your use of the word "mislynch". Ingratiating yourself into the Town with carefully crafted choices like that since you came is more precisely what I am referring to.

[MontyWhittaker]

This is the only game I'm in and I generally don't post anywhere on the site other than in games. I only play 1-2 games at a time so I can give the games 100% of my effort which involves checking on the game every few hours (Even during the night-phase; I constantly check to see when the nights ending and I check up on a few other games I'm following alongside it). Heck, the fact that I was the one to hammer ie. Last online before night-started and first to post when day started, heck the fact that I posted 6 minutes after day started should be enough proof that I was constantly checking on the thread and am town.

Lucky scum isn't any less scum. It's equally likely that you had gotten on to post the kill, which you had forgotten. Then, you scramble and make the first post on that day marking your incredulity at scum not making a kill.

[Regfan]

That vote on Nekoko wasn't on D2, that was on D3 when Awestfie claimed JK which made Nekoko confirmed mafia.

And let me get this right; You're stating that I check the thread every few hours as scum but

not send in a night-kill.

[MontyWhittaker]

No, as I stated, I am saying that you had gotten on to send the kill, but realized that the mod had already posted a No-Kill.

[Regfan]

No, as I stated, I am saying that you had gotten on to send the kill, but realized that the mod had already posted a No-Kill.

So you're saying I randomly got online 6 minutes after the day started while never checking the thread at night to find out when day starts or checking it casually?

[Regfan]

To add to that you're saying I randomly checked the thread at 3;30am (That's the time day started for me).

[MontyWhittaker]

Hey Regfan, if Nekoko is indeed cop, who's mafia and why?

That's something I'm trying to work out (I have town-reads on the both of Thor/Monty and am still finding it hard believing that scum forgot to send in a kill when both of them were posting elsewhere online at the time) but I don't want to waste too much time since if Nekoko is mafia then we'll know it by tomorrow.

Yes, that is actually exactly what I am saying. Per your own reads, since we were both posting elsewhere, and you were obviously not, there is more reasonable proof for your simply waiting. Real life stuff comes up all the time, and you just missed the deadline to submit your kill. That has to be my assumption at this point.

[MontyWhittaker]

To add to that you're saying I randomly checked the thread at 3;30am (That's the time day started for me).

Well, the fact is that you did, I don't think anyone is contesting that. The time you choose to get on is your business.

And I do apologize, that was an error on my part not noting the day that you voted Nekoko.

[Regfan]

So lets get this completely 100% right because I'm struggling to see how you can believe what you're saying here for half a second; you're stating that I'm scum that forgot the game but decided to randomly check it at 3;30am my time rather than the case that I'm town, was checking the thread constantly every few hours and thus came online exactly when day started.

[MontyWhittaker]

So lets get this completely 100% right because I'm struggling to see how you can believe what you're saying here for half a second; you're stating that I'm scum that forgot the game but decided to randomly check it at 3;30am my time rather than the case that I'm town, was checking the thread constantly every few hours and thus came online exactly when day started.

Look at it from my perspective. To me, of course, I am mod-confirmed town. So, with awestfie and Ms Marangal also confirmed town by Nekoko, that leaves you and Thor. I can't see a Thor/Irish scumteam unless I am missing something totally blatant right now. (And if they were, that was some great play on Thor's part) So, if I am looking at you as scum, Reg, my assumption has to be that you either forgot to make a kill, or that you chose not to.

Hypothetical situation: You orchestrated yesterday's events fairly well, giving you a chance to kill Nekoko last night, and since you had already made a no-kill, whether it was purposeful or accidental, you are able to use that to attack a Town member, make a lynch, and set yourself up to make a kill tonight of a Cop-confirmed town, then convince the other one to lynch Thor tomorrow.

[Regfan]

See, explain your Thor-Irish "Not a team" other than Thors vote on Irish. Also explain Irish's interaction with Commando being scum.

And No-killing purposefully is idiotic, 1/4 chance the cop gets a guilty that creates a 100% town win and a 3/4 chance of getting an innocent; an innocent changes the odds of a town win from being 3/4 x 2/3 = 50% to 2/3 x 1/2 = 66.7% not to mention Awestfies predecessor made a 100% town-slip making any innocent that's not on Awestfie an autoloss for mafia meaning they'd be looking at a 3/4 chance of 100% losing and a 1/4 chance of having a 33.3% chance of winning.

So you're literally accusing me of forgetting to submit a kill in my only game (Where I limit myself to a single game solely to give it 100% effort); the game where I hammered and was thus last online before the scene was up and was online and posted 6 minutes after the next day started at 3;30am my time.

[awestfie]

Honestly, upon re-reading, I'm having a hard time believing that Regfan wouldn't submit a kill in that situation, for the simple fact that he knows that that could've put him into auto-lose.

His reaction to my JK claim was great, although, like I said in an earlier post; he would know that I'd attempt a fake-claim / reaction test like that, despite of my alignment.

[awestfie]

Oh, you two are posting right now, great.

Monty, explain to me why you can't see Thor/Irish as a scum-team, please.

[awestfie]

Wait, do you both town-read Thor?

[Regfan]

Wait, do you both town-read Thor?

Yeah, I lean towards Monty making much more sense as scum than Thor + I think Montys push on me here is incredibly contrived.

I'm going to do the dishes (I'll be back in 30-40 minutes) if you want to talk. In the meantime read post 452 I think (?) from Thor and let me know what you think.

[MontyWhittaker]

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

"Shawn doesn't look like scum.
Ergo - Shawn is scum."

Unvote: Sakura Hana
Vote: IrishPope

All right, this seems legit. These first few posts all seem good, but...

Oh, by the way, if there's no Doc.

MM needs looking at.
Commando will be basically assured town.
Irish will be as well.

I would like an explanation of this assumption, if you don't mind.

You certainly are, but making an irrational move such as changing a vote without giving any really legitimate reasons why is not very good for your game, no matter what. Especially since you already have three votes on you...

That sorta makes me want to call him town, frankly - he's being almost silly antagonistic.

And that ends all of the hypothesizing regarding Thor. I'm hesitant to call him scum with just this. Give me a second to look at Regfan.

Oh, and Thor, the main reason for that error was that I was trying to dash something off before we left.

This was the post I made regarding Irish. It's all I saw with his Irish interactions. It could possibly be scum consciously avoiding his scumbuddy, but it might not. The hardest part in justifying a Thor scumread is still that pesky No Kill...

Reg, all I saw with commandodude was what appeared to be a deliberate choice to not mention Irish whatsoever.

Awestfie, what are you thinking?

[awestfie]

Oh, by the way, if there's no Doc.

MM needs looking at.
Commando will be basically assured town.
Irish will be as well.

This? I don't really see anything special from this, mind enlightening me?

I'll be here in 30-40 minutes, this needs a lot more activity, in my opinion; re-reading is one thing, but I want to see what people have to say today, I'd rather lynch correctly today rather than going with the "town-read one, lynch the others" plan.

I have my Hand of Suspicion aimed at Shawn. He seems so innocent. Real scumtell.

"Shawn doesn't look like scum.
Ergo - Shawn is scum."
:neutral:

Unvote: Sakura Hana
Vote: IrishPope

All right, this seems legit. These first few posts all seem good, but...

Oh, by the way, if there's no Doc.

MM needs looking at.
Commando will be basically assured town.
Irish will be as well.

I would like an explanation of this assumption, if you don't mind.

You certainly are, but making an irrational move such as changing a vote without giving any really legitimate reasons why is not very good for your game, no matter what. Especially since you already have three votes on you...

That sorta makes me want to call him town, frankly - he's being almost silly antagonistic.

And that ends all of the hypothesizing regarding Thor. I'm hesitant to call him scum with just this. Give me a second to look at Regfan.

Oh, and Thor, the main reason for that error was that I was trying to dash something off before we left.

This was the post I made regarding Irish. It's all I saw with his Irish interactions. It could possibly be scum consciously avoiding his scumbuddy, but it might not. The hardest part in justifying a Thor scumread is still that pesky No Kill...

Reg, all I saw with commandodude was what appeared to be a deliberate choice to not mention Irish whatsoever.

Awestfie, what are you thinking?

Honestly, I feel like you're actively scum-hunting, and you were my town-read before the cop died; although, I don't seem to understand the town-read on Thor all that much, maybe I'm missing something, but from ISO'ing him I don't really have a solid read on him, I'd like to see him participate more today.

You have pretty much the same reaction as me towards 452, I don't entirely understand the assumption; or why Regfan thinks that specific post is meaningful.

Regardless of any of that, I'm unsure as to if you're town anymore and I need to ISO you, that no-kill is making me paranoiac because I honestly wouldn't see Regfan do it, but I honestly don't want to just rely on that and say: "Okay, lynch whoever isn't Regfan and hope that we win," cause I feel like that's the wrong attitude to have and I'm unsure about Regfan's alignment.

I want to see Thor's reads and a detailed reasoning behind them, that way I can understand the point of view of everyone and it will make it easier for me to ISO all of you.

[MontyWhittaker]

My comment underneath that particular post was asking Thor to state why he made that assumption. I am trying to see where he was coming from.

Regfan, why is that particular post town?

I wouldn't want to fall into making the assumption that any one person is town at this point. For now, it's a waiting game until Thor gets on.

The good thing is that all of the nonconfirmed town votes are accounted for, so there's no possibility of a scum quicklynch so long as the confirmed withhold judgment for now.