Newbie 1382 (Game Over)

[Fear the poster]

S what is it about me that is 'odd' is it early reads? Pushing discussion? Being a dick? Which of those odd things suggest a scum mentality? Well I see that I 'manipulate' people, I guess you see that as scum motivated.

I have my own way of doing things indeed. I'm a very special person. The narcissus of our age in fact.

Am I totally off base or is 'the way they're playing' always the way people play? Or are you saying that you want to see if the play is town motivated though different than your own vs scum motivated?

[JerryArr]

JerryArr's love for No Lynch seems to be born of ignorance, not malice.

I don't love them, I was just saying the site I've been on traditionally used them. I think I was unclear here...

It seems to be counterproductive, but the info we get, and the chance we'll nail scum and make it 7 town to 1 mafia, makes it smart.

By "it", I meant lynching on day 1, not No Lynching. Sorry if there was any confusion!

Jerry: How many Power Roles does your previous site's 9p games have?

All the other site's games were more than 9 players, and were pretty role madness-y.

[Fear the poster]

Hi there jerr-bear (can I call you that?) I've noticed you didn't respond to my case on that one player with a weird name. Could you do me the kindness of looking at it and giving me input.

Additionally I'd like your comments, whatever they are, on the conversation XL and I have been having.

[JerryArr]

Hi there jerr-bear (can I call you that?)

No problem!

I've noticed you didn't respond to my case on that one player with a weird name. Could you do me the kindness of looking at it and giving me input.

Of course. Here are my thoughts (assuming you mean rmpeacoc)...
I'm not sure I liked her 40, and she really hasn't done much to affirm her townness to me. I like what you're doing so far, so rmp seems a bit scummier than average right now. Not enough to deserve keeping my RVS vote there forever, but she's someone to keep an eye on for me.

Additionally I'd like your comments, whatever they are, on the conversation XL and I have been having.

I think posting reads early is kind of similar to RVS. They can start with silly reasons, but then turn into legitimate reasons later.

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.2

Xiao Long (2)

: notquitethere, Mr. Flay

jon_h61 (1)

: Fear the poster

Mr. Flay (1)

: jon_h61

rmpeacoc (1)

: JerryArr

notquitethere (1)

: pitoli

No Vote (3)

: lortaku, rmpeacoc, Xiao Long

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

The deadline is Saturday, June 8, at 4:00 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2013-06-08 16:00:00).

[Xiao Long]

S what is it about me that is 'odd' is it early reads? Pushing discussion? Being a dick? Which of those odd things suggest a scum mentality?

I'm not saying anything you're doing is particularly scummy, time will tell that. As far as what's odd, the way you act and speak to others is just odd to me.

Well I see that I 'manipulate' people, I guess you see that as scum motivated.

No, we all manipulate. This whole game is manipulation. I was saying you have a different way of manipulating people than I do.

Am I totally off base or is 'the way they're playing' always the way people play?

People touting meta think this way, I don't. I think meta should be taken with a grain of salt. Anyone can change the way they play. So far I've played quite differently in this game than I did in my first game. Is my alignment the same as that game, though? That's for you to find out.

Or are you saying that you want to see if the play is town motivated though different than your own vs scum motivated?

I'm saying that I will take your playstyle into consideration, but I'll mostly focus on whether you're helpful to town or hurting town. At the moment, I don't know, I don't have enough information to work on.

[rmpeacoc]

Sorry I'm here. I went home to visit my family... I'll be on more after next weekend for sure... I just happen to be on Vacation and such for Mem. Day and I have a conference but I know I can get online at least every 2 days so I didn't go on V/LA.

vote: JerryArr because I feel like OMGUSing

I'll take some time to read what everyone has said soon.

Apparently im an idiot

VOTE: JerryArrVOTE:

I'll read more later tonight... sorry i've been so busy... seeing people I haven't seen since high school (6 years!!!)

[Fear the poster]

So many promises, someone feels discomfort with how little they have contributed and feels the need to excuse their scumminess.

VOTE: rmpeacoc

I'm rather confident in this, the coc is scum.

[rmpeacoc]

well I don't like you. Because you are scum.

Reasons: rmpea isn't trying to discern my alignment she is commenting 'ohhh fear is doing x' but doesn't question me or try to discern whether what I'm doing (which she seems to think is bad) is bad because I am bad or because I am scum. She is scum because the goal of her posts thus far have been to paint me as suspicious without trying to get a read on me. Her play shows a scum mentality and she is scum.

I've got a lot of weight to throw around, I'll be doing it rather a lot.

XL, why do you comment on how interesting I'll make the game instead of your reads of my alignment and my play thus far. You are just fluffing out your post by addressing me as you did. Are you not unsure of a player who calls you town off of one post? Why so cavalier?

Lorkatu, why unvote so soon? Ae you scared of being caught out with your vote on a townie? Is that why you are p,saying scared? How much mafia history do you have!

So many promises, someone feels discomfort with how little they have contributed and feels the need to excuse their scumminess.

VOTE: rmpeacoc

I'm rather confident in this, the coc is scum.

I have one thing to say to this.

I have been gone. If you want to see my usual activity you can check out all of my completed games. Granted I was town in all of them so I can see how you would try to make an argument that I lurk as scum. However if I could I would prove to you that I am in LaCrosse, WI (Where I am from) and not in Bismarck, ND (where I live. I'm also quite drunk at the moment and shocked I can even read this shit. I thought I was going to puke my guts out at the bar before I left... got home and I feel great, actually.

ANYWAY I think I'm a super easy target for you all and if you all aren't seeing that then there is an issue.

I'm keeping my eyes on Fear for now. I literally have not been here and the game has been going for 2 days. You can keep fosing me if you want.

better yet if you really think I am acting scummy get me out of the way for the ml. I'd rather not be a hindrance. I'm sorry that I was around waiting for a game for a week and then it happened to just start while I was on vacation. Nothing I can do about it. I'm online like 5 minutes of the day compared with 10-12 hours of the day when I am in Bismarck... mostly because I have a social life here.

ALSO MY FUCKING RSV (RVS? I'll remember that shit when I'm sober) vote is VOTE: JerryArrdamnit.

[rmpeacoc]

Also I'm sorry I missed one thing that I wanted to say. Fear said this: "Reasons: rmpea isn't trying to discern my alignment she is commenting 'ohhh fear is doing x' but doesn't question me or try to discern whether what I'm doing (which she seems to think is bad) is bad because I am bad or because I am scum. She is scum because the goal of her posts thus far have been to paint me as suspicious without trying to get a read on me. Her play shows a scum mentality and she is scum."

Issue here is that I had posted 2 times and he tries to say things like 'all of her posts' but see I've posted twice... I was not even building a case on you, just pointing it out. Relax a little.

[pitoli]

Sorry guys, I've had limited access during my graduation weekend. Ill be happy to provide up to date reads soon. Thanks

[notquitethere]

Quick question

Mr. Flay

(in your capacity as IC), do days usually last the full length here or is it normal for a lynch consensus to be made before then?

[Fear the poster]

well I don't like you. Because you are scum.

Reasons: rmpea isn't trying to discern my alignment she is commenting 'ohhh fear is doing x' but doesn't question me or try to discern whether what I'm doing (which she seems to think is bad) is bad because I am bad or because I am scum. She is scum because the goal of her posts thus far have been to paint me as suspicious without trying to get a read on me. Her play shows a scum mentality and she is scum.

I've got a lot of weight to throw around, I'll be doing it rather a lot.

XL, why do you comment on how interesting I'll make the game instead of your reads of my alignment and my play thus far. You are just fluffing out your post by addressing me as you did. Are you not unsure of a player who calls you town off of one post? Why so cavalier?

Lorkatu, why unvote so soon? Ae you scared of being caught out with your vote on a townie? Is that why you are p,saying scared? How much mafia history do you have!

So many promises, someone feels discomfort with how little they have contributed and feels the need to excuse their scumminess.

VOTE: rmpeacoc

I'm rather confident in this, the coc is scum.

I have one thing to say to this.

I have been gone. If you want to see my usual activity you can check out all of my completed games. Granted I was town in all of them so I can see how you would try to make an argument that I lurk as scum. However if I could I would prove to you that I am in LaCrosse, WI (Where I am from) and not in Bismarck, ND (where I live. I'm also quite drunk at the moment and shocked I can even read this shit. I thought I was going to puke my guts out at the bar before I left... got home and I feel great, actually.

ANYWAY I think I'm a super easy target for you all and if you all aren't seeing that then there is an issue.

I'm keeping my eyes on Fear for now. I literally have not been here and the game has been going for 2 days. You can keep fosing me if you want.

better yet if you really think I am acting scummy get me out of the way for the ml. I'd rather not be a hindrance. I'm sorry that I was around waiting for a game for a week and then it happened to just start while I was on vacation. Nothing I can do about it. I'm online like 5 minutes of the day compared with 10-12 hours of the day when I am in Bismarck... mostly because I have a social life here.

ALSO MY FUCKING RSV (RVS? I'll remember that shit when I'm sober) vote is VOTE: JerryArrdamnit.

My friend, you seem to have missed every point I actually made. Now you are attacking a strawman, is that because you are bad or scum?
The points of my case(s)
1. You did not try to discern my alignment (agreeing that you didn't try to figure me out does not, in fact, refute this point).
2. You have tried to create activity without content
3. Your frequent apologies and assertations that you need to read the thread show a guilty conscience. You know your lack of reads is because you are scum. Not because you have no reads yet.
4. Attacking a strawman instead of my actual arguments.
5. Martyring while defending yourself. You get to pick one. Either cry about how you should be taken out of the way of a later mislynch or attack my case as bad.

I don't care about your activity and my case has nothing to do with the number or frequency of your posts, the goal of which had indeed been to paint me as suspicious without calling me scum. Your attempts to misrepresent my case on you have made you scummier.

I'd like your sober response to the above since it is possible that your total disregard of everything relevant in my case may just be because you are a lush.

Notquite: my limited knowledge suggests that days usually go long. Within 24 hours of the final deadline.

[jon_h61]

People touting meta think this way, I don't. I think meta should be taken with a grain of salt. Anyone can change the way they play. So far I've played quite differently in this game than I did in my first game. Is my alignment the same as that game, though?

That's for you to find out

.

Alex, Can I have an X? You shouldn't makes dares like that.
VOTE: Xiao Long
Mind if I shorten you to XL?

[Xiao Long]

Alex, Can I have an X? You shouldn't makes dares like that.

Apparently you don't know what a dare is. It's a truth, and the same truth can be applied to everyone (except scum, since they already know the alignment of everyone).

VOTE: Xiao Long
Mind if I shorten you to XL?

You can call me XL, but if you're going to shorten, I'd prefer you to shorten to Xiao, otherwise I might miss it. I'd also prefer you to have real reasons for voting since we're no longer in RVS.

[Fear the poster]

Jon, comments on the ongoing events.

Xiao, why so much active lurking? What are your reads now? You said you were waiting but we are a quarter of the way into day one and I'm the only one with any content.

[rmpeacoc]

My friend, you seem to have missed every point I actually made. Now you are attacking a strawman, is that because you are bad or scum?
The points of my case(s)
1. You did not try to discern my alignment (agreeing that you didn't try to figure me out does not, in fact, refute this point).
2. You have tried to create activity without content
3. Your frequent apologies and assertations that you need to read the thread show a guilty conscience. You know your lack of reads is because you are scum. Not because you have no reads yet.
4. Attacking a strawman instead of my actual arguments.
5. Martyring while defending yourself. You get to pick one. Either cry about how you should be taken out of the way of a later mislynch or attack my case as bad.

I don't care about your activity and my case has nothing to do with the number or frequency of your posts, the goal of which had indeed been to paint me as suspicious without calling me scum. Your attempts to misrepresent my case on you have made you scummier.

I'd like your sober response to the above since it is possible that your total disregard of everything relevant in my case may just be because you are a lush.

Notquite: my limited knowledge suggests that days usually go long. Within 24 hours of the final deadline.

1. I clearly had not read everything yet. I said in the first post I made that I had no read everything. I was merely pointing out ONE thing in the game that I didn't like and you reacted like I was CALLING YOU SCUM.

2. Again... I said I haven't been around. Activity without content? I'm pretty sure we're having a conversation right now. I'm pretty sure I am pointing out some things that you said... I'm pretty sure I was trying to provoke discussion when I said I didn't like the way that you thought you were 'o so powerful'. Also if you don't know what I was referring to, it was the way that you told someone that you 'can and will' get them lynched if you think they are scum. This implies that you think you are going to lead this game... until you are an uncc'd pr or are proven town you don't get to lead the town. Let them make their own decisions.

3. I apologized because I am usually a much more active player. I don't think I need to explain this again. If you want to check it out go ahead and check any of my completed games. I work in an office, I'm usually constantly checking MS and participating. You will see my participation increase on about June 3rd or 4th (I might sleep the day away on the 3rd since it will be my first free day in a week and a half).

4. As explained I was drunk last night and have otherwise been out. I can ISO you later... in fact I'll work on that when I finish this post. You, sir, need to relax a little if you are town. Give it time. You really think it would be this easy? If you do than you're severely mistaken.

I need to remind myself that this is a newbie game. Can you tell us about your mafia experience? Personally I learned about Mafia as a counselor at summer camp. Then I found EpicMafia (I still play there but not super competitively) which I played for about 4 years before I found Mafia Scum.

5. I can do what I want. My point here is that I don't want to hinder town. If that's what I'm doing I'd rather be ML'd if it means we would win the game because they could see more clearly.

You claim that you don't care about my activity but clearly you do. You are the one who said I was 'trying to create activity without content'. That's a little contradictory if you ask me. I clearly said I wasn't being active enough. So you either have a problem with my activity or you don't.

As far as trying to 'paint you as suspicious'. No. I point out little things I don't like about people. You can take that as me merely making a note for myself and at the same time attempting to get you to calm down.

I'll say it again. I'm really not pleased with people who believe they 'can and will' have someone lynched... you aren't the entire town. We all have a voice.

Jon, comments on the ongoing events.

Xiao, why so much active lurking? What are your reads now? You said you were waiting but we are a quarter of the way into day one and I'm the only one with any content.

okay first of all we are not a quarter of the way into day one. You're a newbie. Stop spouting out shit like you know better. we're less than 72 hours into a 14 day 'day'. that's less than 3 days. NOT a quarter.

Second of all... it was a holiday weekend. Lurking is not a scumtell... ESPECIALLY in this case.

Relax a little... we have plenty of time.

Also UNVOTE:

[rmpeacoc]

ISO on Fear

Spoiler:

The game works this way, I catch scum and you sheep me. Good? Good.

^^Sheep me

So, lortaku, why sheep me? I know I'm the best and all but do you really think jon is scum or are you just bandwagoning?

^^ 'don't sheep me'

Also I think jon is town. Because he seems it and I like people who love being VT, them is my people.

So Jon, since you are town you are going to tell me who is scum in the next 48 hours. You are going to give me a good reason to sheep you and I'm going to enjoy it.

^^I think Jon is town because he seems like it. Can you um... support this a little? You want reads from people but you aren't really giving your own reads as of this point in the game.

Fear is bored.

Dance for me, puppets.

^^Again trying to be the leader.

Easy target choice flay, XL's posting seems somewhat townie to me though. His blatant refusal to follow the orders of the IC seems likely to be from town since a newbie scum would want to blend in by doing what they have been told to do my the thread-leader.

^^You support XL being town here congrats. Still not sure why you didn't do the same for Jon. I like to see some consistency and you haven't exactly been consistent.

please respond to my earlier questions lortku, they matter to me and my opinion should matter to you (hint: I can and will get you lynched if I think you are scum, so explain yourself).

^^Again if you are town, you are ONLY ONE town. I don't think I need to continue to push this.

well I don't like you. Because you are scum.

^^I said I didn't like what you said, and suddenly I'm scum.

Reasons: rmpea isn't trying to discern my alignment she is commenting 'ohhh fear is doing x' but doesn't question me or try to discern whether what I'm doing (which she seems to think is bad) is bad because I am bad or because I am scum. She is scum because the goal of her posts thus far have been to paint me as suspicious without trying to get a read on me. Her play shows a scum mentality and she is scum.

I've got a lot of weight to throw around, I'll be doing it rather a lot.

Lorkatu, why unvote so soon? Ae you scared of being caught out with your vote on a townie? Is that why you are p,saying scared? How much mafia history do you have!

You're trying so hard to paint me as scum now when I made one comment. You say 'the goal of her posts', but I had made 2 posts and only 1 of them mentioned you. You're quick to jump to conclusions and jump on someone who thinks you are scum (yet again).

"I'll post my own content. Not to your desires"
How do you plan on finding scum if you don't voice any of the little things? Those reads based on little things being in the thread force mafia to take stances on things, those little reads grow into big reads, and with big reads scum hang. So, please share those little niggling doubts, tell me who strikes you the wrong way and why. Show me how you think.

^^ I just wanted to make a comment on the above. In my first MS game (Newbie 1350) I fos'd town for quite a bit of day 1 for not wanting to out reads. I've come to the conclusion that this is not a scumtell.

S what is it about me that is 'odd' is it early reads? Pushing discussion? Being a dick? Which of those odd things suggest a scum mentality? Well I see that I 'manipulate' people, I guess you see that as scum motivated.

^^You are being a dick, and admitting that you 'manipulate people' doesn't make me much happier. You're taking away from what other people are saying. If you're town you should be trying to work as a team rather than overpower others.

I'm rather confident in this, the coc is scum.

^^Again with the confidence. Drives me nuts and detracts from other people's reads.

Notquite: my limited knowledge suggests that days usually go long. Within 24 hours of the final deadline.

^^Admitting you have limited knowledge. First step to recovery.

we are a quarter of the way into day one and I'm the only one with any content.

^^Saying you're the only one with content when I've seen others making decent points (Flay's 34 notquitethere's 44)

To sum this up...
Fear likes to lead... he will out reads a lot but he only backs them up when he wants to. He admits his doesn't know much but pretends like he does. He calls out a lot of null tells as scum tells. He also tries very hard to make himself look townie by saying things like 'I know I'm the best' and 'I'm the only one with content' or 'I can and will get your lynched if I think you are scum'. I honestly don't like it.


HOWEVER. I'm not voting him because I do think he's really just being an idiot. Like Flay, I can't stand tryharding. I think it detracts from the game because if puts a focus on town rather than scum. This is null.

Fear I'd really have more of an appreciation for you if you would just calm down a little. We have PLENTY of time, and trying to intimidate people could very well just be putting the focus on town. Lets let some other people form their own opinions.

[Fear the poster]

How is is hard to understand? I have no issue with the amount of your activity. I have an issue with what you have done wi your activity.


You are right, I rounded up from slightly less than three days to slightly more than three days in saying we where a quarter of the way through day one.

1. I reacted like you were not calling me scum. That was my problem. If you see so etching you don't like call people out on it. You just pointed it out without adding anything.

2. I am going to lead the game. This is a fact. You can believe it now or later. But those are your options.

3. I'd rather you use your time now rather than wait a week to participate.

4. I've played mafia for a while. On my home site I often coach newbie players, I participate in a podcast on mafia. My strengths are in leadership and strong town reads as well as meta reads and mindset analysis.

Yes I think it would be this easy, because it is this easy.

I don't relax. Ever.

5. You can do what you want and so can I. What I want is to lynch you.


I assume you aren't bad at the game so I'm going to believe that you understand the difference between a problem with active lurking and lurking and a difference between being active without content versus activity. You have been active without content. Therein lays my problem.

Now, tell me who you think is scum and why you think that.

[rmpeacoc]

1. I clearly said I didn't have time at that moment. You happened to post while I was on so I pointed out what I didn't like. I didn't need to ask you any questions. I felt like it didn't need any other comment. I'm not going to lay out my thoughts for you. "I don't like that Fear thinks he is o so powerful because..." or "Fear why do you think you are o so powerful?" That would all be so unnecessary at this point because I wasn't trying to make an argument, as I stated. I was MERELY trying to point it out. You caught me! -sarcasm-

2. again this is my problem. You're detracting from the game not because you are leading but because you are telling people TO FOLLOW you. You can lead people in asking questions and trying to provoke thought and discussion but you're trying to intimidate and it puts a focus on you. I think that's been mighty clear.

3. I didn't say I won't be participating, I said that my participation will increase in a week. I drove 8 1/2 hours to see my family, not to sit around a play mafia. However I want to be a part of this game so I'll post when I can. After I'm done with my next post (not this one) I'll likely be gone for the evening unless I check things out on my phone. Tomorrow I'm driving back to Bismarck... might be around Thursday morning but Thursday afternoon through Saturday evening I have a conference. As I said I was waiting for a game for more than a week, it just happened to start while I was gone. I can't help that.

4. Is this forum mafia? Mind sharing your home site? I just want to know how you are used to playing.

If you are town and you're saying this is easy... I hope you're having a heart attack tomorrow IF you get me lynched and WHEN I flip town.

5. Go for it. Try. Please.

I'm working on going through the posts and responding to things I need to respond to and outing reads that I get. I should be done with this within the hour. Please give me time.

[Fear the poster]

Yes, forum mafia, this is me: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile ... romethelax do as much research as you need to.

[rmpeacoc]

I was just wondering if you played forum mafia or regular mafia.

As I've said before I don't think you're scum I just don't appreciate your play style at all.

I'm almost finished with my other post... it's coming. Basically I don't like Xiao at all but I need to double check votes before I vote.

[Fear the poster]

I was just wondering if you played forum mafia or regular mafia.

As I've said before I don't think you're scum

I just don't appreciate your play style at all.

I'm almost finished with my other post... it's coming. Basically I don't like Xiao at all but I need to double check votes before I vote.

join the club

[rmpeacoc]

I'm slowly going to make my way through the game here and try to comment...

Who here has never played Mafia online before?

I've played before, but on a non-Mafia based board. They pretty much always no lynch on day 1.

^^I want to reiterate what Flay said and explain this from my point of view.

In a newbie game you have a mislynch (ml) d1.

You should only ever no lynch (nl) if it is mylo (mislynch and lose) which is when there are 2 more town than scum (ex. 2 scum 4 town, 3 scum 5 town, etc.)

ALWAYS lynch on LYLO (Lynch or lose) 1 more town than scum (ex. 3 scum 4 town, 2 scum 3 town, 1 scum 2 town)... you get it.

If it's not lylo or mylo, you have a ml and should almost always lynch.

Also, how do you do the white highlighting?

Not sure if anyone answered this. The white highlight is the vote function. You can use the 'vote' button when you post a reply (not in quick reply but in a reply (button a the bottom of the page) or you can surround a name with the vote tags, like so: [*vote]name[*/vote] (example VOTE: lortaku without the asterisks. Unvote the same with way with [*unvote][*/unvote] (Example UNVOTE: ). You can do a lot with the board, such as create spoilers like I did above or tag a post by surrounding the post number with [*post]##[*/post] (example 17) You'll figure it out, but please do continue to ask questions if you have them.

*you were close in 29 but you didn't close the tag*

^ Oh, if I was run up to L-1 I probably wouldn't claim, depends on the circumstances.

This I can agree with, although you should certainly breadcrumb your inno if you have one... in case of hammer.

Note to all: Hammering without a claim is super scummy. Don't do it. Also if you are cop and a scum claims cop for a cc it might be a good idea to not claim in the hopes that you'll survive to d2 and get another report... be careful.

Say you're the cop: Player 1 is at L-1. You've not inspected them. Player 2 claims cop and says that 1 is innocent. You've inspected Player 2 and know 2 to be a townie. Do you claim cop then?

^^ I don't like that Xiao didn't answer this question. Xiao, even with no experience as cop you should speculate. I'm not sure if you really just have no idea or if you're afraid to give the wrong answer. Here's what I would say:

Absolutely not. If the person who claimed cop is in fact town, in this setup anyway... than you never cc a town... because player 2 is sacrificing themself because they are likely a VT (or so I would hope) Then hopefully someone who is scum is lynched and you investigate 'player 1' at night in the hopes that 'player 2' will be killed by the mafia. Safest kill possible.

that being said, I think I want to hear a lot more from Xiao, I'm having a hard time telling whether you are a true noob or you are trying to look like a true noob (to be fair I haven't looked for meta at all.

What makes me think even more is this comment:

Who strikes me the wrong way? Atm, only lortaku. Either he's clueless or pretending.

Wouldn't you say the same thing about yourself? Because to me either you are both SUPER noob or one (or both) of you is trying to play the noob card in the hopes that we will town read you.

It seems to be counterproductive, but the info we get, and the chance we'll nail scum and make it 7 town to 1 mafia, makes it smart.

By "it", I meant lynching on day 1, not No Lynching. Sorry if there was any confusion!

I'm really confused. Can you explain why you think that lynching day one seems to be conterproductive. I'm just trying to get in your head.

All the other site's games were more than 9 players, and were pretty role madness-y.

Can you elaborate on this? more than 9 players? The other site I'm on (epicmafia) has mostly 7-10 player setups when it comes to competition... what site are you on and what kind of setups are typical?

@pitoli can't wait to hear what you have to say.

At this point I'd like to vote Xiao but I'm not ready to put him at L-1. We have so much time.

Why? Mostly because of the way that he plays the noob card but then calls lortaku out on it. At least Lortaku is trying to learn something, or so it seems to me. Xiao seems to know what he wants to do but then says he's noob (or I'm assuming since he doesn't know what to do as cop). This seems a bit backwards to me.

Xiao you should at least be trying to learn or speculating... even if you're wrong at least the IC and SE's can help a little in a newbie game. You don't have to have played a game in order to speculate about other roles.

[Fear the poster]

I've played my share of epicmafia, that isn't mafia.

Xiao still strikes me as townie.