Xenoblade Mafia (Game Over)

[Varsoon]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Your demonic glee at Varshoon's gambit and trying to lead Town indicate two things to me:

1) You're Town
2) You're glad to see Varshoon fail at this.

I confirmed Orc like this years ago in this game :3

[Varsoon]

Honestly, though, I'm glad to see your recent posts, Ghostlin. They paint you as having a very town mindset, and come from a pretty genuine place.

That said, do you have any questions for me?

For you, I'd like to know your top three scum suspects and who you hold as definitely/most likely town.

[Varsoon]

B&B, I may have been wrong about you.

Maybe. Were you reading us as scum? If so, then yes, you were.

Didn't catch this earlier.
I've been going back and forth on my read on you (waffling, is what the plebs would say), but I'm feeling a lot better about calling you town as of recent. Your posts have a certain clarity and drive and rationale to them, rather than being the spiteful mess that I usually see from scum-acting-town.

[Varsoon]

Cabd's post 2026 is soundly town for me. He's doing a good job of sussing out who he feels is scum while contributing why he's wary of those slots. It's rational, and somewhat demanding, although I don't think people are going to answer what he's asked. Could be wrong.

[Metal Sonic]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Your demonic glee at Varshoon's gambit and trying to lead Town indicate two things to me:

2) You're glad to see Varshoon fail at this.

I choose 2



Anyway, I believe varsoon's vanilla claim. Firstly, there is no reason NOT to believe it. Do you think the scum is retarded to pull such a , I would say, gambit? Unlikely. He is lying or he isn't. Why must people always assumes he lies?



Next, his posts are not 'just go with the with the flow'. He has independent reads(somewhat), and thinks for himself and puts forth his own useful views which are very helpful for discussion. Towntells.

And then, he is able to attack players with no fear, something you all should agree is a town tell; I mean he is not afraid of getting seen as scum or gets extra defensive(Read: KBW) or whatever. Town tell.

Lastly, his posts are interesting, to say the least. One more reason to keep him in the game.




@Ghostlin, I think he meant "Scum Tell", not scum slip. Agreed its a <strong> scumtell but indeed is not scumslip.


P-Edit: yeah beast is kinda town too

[Metal Sonic]

also just a heads up for all of you

i had meta with Keybladewielder before,

he's a bad player

please take note

[Varsoon]

ok, basic reads:

Rev - null, but not liking putting his null reads in scum pile.
Cabd - townie
Metal Shounic - null
Varsoon - annoying but town
and AJ - same as always, jerky. leaning scum

Assuming that Keyblade has caught up to the thread by this post (otherwise, reads are a bit pointless), seems too much like he's fence-sitting and agreeing with the public. I've got to wonder why there's only reads on 1/4 of the population of this game, too.

Keyblade, you're just way too much of a wildcard, so,

KEYBLADEWIELDER: I'd like to know who you think is definitely scum, and WHY.
Furthermore, if you could provide explained reads (maybe a sentence or two each) for every player in this game, I'll believe that you've caught up.
Otherwise, you come off to me as scum trying to go under the radar.
And I don't like scum who fly under my radar.

[Metal Sonic]

^wont work

he's really bad

[Varsoon]

also just a heads up for all of you

i had meta with Keybladewielder before,

he's a bad player

please take note

Metal, it's weird that I'm awake at 4 AM.
Weirder is that we're on the same page.
I didn't even see this in P-EDIT.


I'd like to know the same from you. Your posts have been pretty light on content up to this point and I feel like you've got a very powerful few points to make, but that a lot of players doubt you/put you in scum piles based on the content and articulation of what you've posted so far. Could you please explain your current scum-reads, and let us know who you think is definitely/most likely town. Also, if you have any questions for me, this is a good time to pitch them, as we're both online.

Ultimately, I feel like you could be town, but I want to hear a lot more from you before I can verify that. You've been playing a somewhat shy hand so far, and if you're gonna be town, you gotta expose yourself and open up.

[Varsoon]

^wont work

he's really bad

Hey, don't discredit players like that. It's rude to them, regardless of how good or bad they are.
I bolded my questions, so if Keyblade doesn't respond to them, I'll take it as general disinterest/dodging.

[Varsoon]

@Sajin: Sorry about being shitty town.
Give me the post number of your case and ask any other questions you now have.
I've been all over the place in this game, and I'd like to -actually- do some town work rather than cynical alignment confirmations.

@SAJIN: I want to re-iterate what I've said here.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that there's not much hypocritical, considering that I've got less than half the posts that 2 does.
How do people not have a solid read on 2 yet?
I'm doing an ISO right now to solve this once and for all, at least, for myself.
There's no way a player is 400 posts deep and people haven't agreed on an alignment.

[Sajin]

@Sajin: Sorry about being shitty town.
Give me the post number of your case and ask any other questions you now have.
I've been all over the place in this game, and I'd like to -actually- do some town work rather than cynical alignment confirmations.

@SAJIN: I want to re-iterate what I've said here.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that there's not much hypocritical, considering that I've got less than half the posts that 2 does.
How do people not have a solid read on 2 yet?
I'm doing an ISO right now to solve this once and for all, at least, for myself.
There's no way a player is 400 posts deep and people haven't agreed on an alignment.

Post count is not indicative of alignment nor is it indicative of how easy someone is to read.

You probably just have a flawed perspective on post count->alignment.

Just lower your fluff content and keep your posts on topic is all I ask. One of the reasons Orc could not find your gambit is the amount of fluff posts in the thread. Post 1006 is the relevant concerns I brought up about you and I am still interested in why you self described yourself as a weaker voice and I am also curious what you think is a "suffocating playstyle". Look it up in that post for context.

And yes 400 posts may not be enough to determine alignment.

[Metal Sonic]

also just a heads up for all of you

i had meta with Keybladewielder before,

he's a bad player

please take note

Metal, it's weird that I'm awake at 4 AM.
Weirder is that we're on the same page.
I didn't even see this in P-EDIT.


I'd like to know the same from you. Your posts have been pretty light on content up to this point and I feel like you've got a very powerful few points to make, but that a lot of players doubt you/put you in scum piles based on the content and articulation of what you've posted so far. Could you please explain your current scum-reads, and let us know who you think is definitely/most likely town. Also, if you have any questions for me, this is a good time to pitch them, as we're both online.

Ultimately, I feel like you could be town, but I want to hear a lot more from you before I can verify that. You've been playing a somewhat shy hand so far, and if you're gonna be town, you gotta expose yourself and open up.

Yeah you're absolutely right.

My current scum read:Tiphaine Death.

I've stated all this earlier on in the thread, but I'll restate it just for refreshment.

his iso is really really bad.

Lets do some analysis. The first few(5) posts were given the benefit of the doubt thanks to "RVS"

I have mentioned previously, the one passable post of his is #901

Ok, I'm back, I am going to explain this to you all one more time and if you can't figure out the bloody obviousness of it all I'm going to give up because you're all a bunch of bloody dumbfucks.

Fact the first: I have never been in a game where scum fake claim miller early. After an investigation, sure, but I have never seen the gambit actually happen.
Fact the second: Nacho voting sven for his miller claim felt horribly opportunistic because of fact one.
Fact the third: When Nacho presented me evidence that this kind of thing does in fact occur, occurred in a game he was in, and is not a myth perpetuated to gain mislynches I FOUND THIS "INTERESTING" AND REMOVED MY VOTE.
Fact the fourth: The way sven is playing out this miller claim is not town. His multiple if I was scum if I was town posts really ping the scumdar for me, thus I voted him. I completely disagree with the stated fact that any miller claim creates wifom, that's bullshit.
Fact the fifth: This game moved so fast that when I got back from rehearsal last night I saw much more than I expected, some votes on me, and was already under an awful lot of outside the game pressure. This is not an excuse for that terrible post, merely an explanation.

Now that I'm done yelling at the people voting me, maybe I can worry about the rest of this stupid thread.

I'll admit to some amount of skimming here, I'm doing my best to read it all, but honestly a day and a half for this much is not reasonable. My best work comes from re-reads anyway so I'll work with what I've got for now. Aside from the sven scumishness two things stand out to me from the rest of this, post number 588, and 742.

588 screams scum at me. I don't know if this is completely true, see aformentioned skimming, but it feels like ghostlin is rehashing a bunch of points other people have made to make them look like his own thoughts. do not like this.

742 on the other hand earns my vote. We have self centered, wifom based, wagon hopping. If that isn't a bloody scumtell I don't know what is. And if you call omgus on me so help me I will reach throught he computer and punch you in the nose. You do not get to get off with that kind of bull because you happen to be voting the guy who caught you at it.

Vote Varsoon

The whole post is anti-Sven, a fair attack in fact. The weird part is when he votes you instead of sven. As a wonderfully nice player who views everyone as innocent unless guilty(contrary a few irritating players on the site), I will give him the benefit of the doubt

Here comes the fluff

Town rage by 2.

Classic backing down in response to reverse pressure, lynch this scum please.

I will not lurk X_X.

No actually varsoon if you had continued to push me after that post of mine I would have felt much less certain of my read on you.

See when I specifically tell you doing something would be omgus, i.e something generally considered anti town and bad, if you are willing to do it anyway that probably means your read is real and you honestly believe me to be scum. When I confront you with that obvious setback and you drop it, it feels like either your read was weak in the first place or your read was fake. I'm going for option two here.

Your sarcasm tastes like foot, and an iso confirms :/.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Ghostlin

His catchup posts feel like they are all made of sheeping other people already stated opinions. Don't like it.

BLABLABLA


UP TILL MY ISO

12:17 A.M (I'll Iso Tiphaine)
12:18 A.M (Ok, I just isoed tiphaine)

Yeah, no.

vote metal sonic

YEAH, NO!

here's more

I feel ignored X_x.

I wish I could say the same of you, unfortunately you only come across as moronic so I have to keep my vote on "1minuteiso-sonic".

^I died^

I can't do this any more.

You get the point

Lets skip to the fun part

Third paragraph of 1785 is a scum claim.

He's making himself sound unthreatnening, pandering to town interest, after forgetting that his counterpart claimed tracker/miller he is now making sure that all take notice. There is just so much subtle deflection in this post it does the opposite for me.

The paragraphs above are saying wifom is ok and not a big deal while at the same time inspiring a whole load of it is also bad. These kind of tactics are the same i often use as scum to great effect, thus I can spot them.

"happy to try" "Prove my alignment" "curious" these words are still in the, "look at me I am a happy team playing townie" vein of speech. While maintaining the stance that he's not angry at anyone who thinks he is scum.

1793 is more of the same.

"Simply hoping you'd save me the bother"
"form my own read"

Every word out of this mans mouth is trying so damned hard to be town he cannot possibly be.

I am completely certain that MS is scum, however given that no on else is I'll lift my vote on him to vote reverend, I maintain that anytime anyone wants to vote ms I'll be right there with them.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: reverend

More anti-sven, but then he comes up with a extra "MS is scum" at the back. Way to detract from the main point(again). That's a scumtell, as if trying to take less responsibility for his sven vote. Bussing?



Ok and then the rest are all shit

I've already explained my townread on two

,

You DID NOT!!!!!

if I have time today I'll go reread him and give you something more substantial.

Wow, just wow.

vote varsoon

I hereby formally apologize rev, I think I was wrong about you.

Wow just fucking wow!!!!!

Wow, just wow varsoon.

This is the case against tiphaine death. 99% fluff, the remaining 1% is scumtell-ish

so yes

WOW FUCKING WOW

[Metal Sonic]

EBWOP: "As a wonderfully nice player who views everyone as innocent unless guilty(contrary a few irritating players on the site), I will give him the benefit of the doubt"

referring to me btw

[Metal Sonic]

As for town,

I've already mentioned (multiple times)

Varsoon, Cabd, Nachomamma, GuyinFreezer for strong town

2, ghostlin, beauty, orc, andrius, mac, for town/probtown

[Metal Sonic]

my oh my that indeed was pretty immature of me

I apologise to KeyBladeWielder for the personal attack

[Metal Sonic]

Varsoon: question:


Why do you decide to change your play style?

Claiming vanillager is suspect at best, but I'm sure you do not do this every game(pulling this shit assumption out of my mouth, but yeah)

Why do you choose this style of play for this game?

[Varsoon]

One page deep in the ISO so far.
Right now, it is actually a hard call for me.
966 is the first actually solid lists of reads from 2, and it's a safer list that most.
2 does a lot of talking with active players, but even moreso, it seems, with players that 2's played with before.
Therefore, 2's list is informed by the consensus.
This is the scariest WIFOM situation for me, as I can never tell if it's a town-tell or scum-tell when people make lists informed by consensus.
In all of page 1, seems largely unsure of my slot, feels like my play is a bit crazier than it was in borkgame, and almost writes me off.
2 doesn't push cases. There's 1 vote in 200 posts alone, and it becomes an unvote and even a town-read.
In fact, 2 seems to with-hold information that 2 gets, unless asked directly about it. There's a lot of prodding around with questions here and there, and meta-speculation, but not nearly as much declarations from 2.

Two pages deep:
It's really easy to tell who 2 thinks is town or scum, at least, on the level of what's written.
2's way too reliant on meta. Should I ever be in a game where I'm scum and 2 is town--I will kill 2 with this knowledge.
1298 is probably the biggest post 2's made so far.
1301 explains 2's stance and makes reading 2 easier.
1302 is the second read-list. There's some disparity here, as nulls no longer exist and cabd and GIF join the scum-pile. I like that I've graduated to maybe-town instead of null. Also, it's important to notice that Sven is still a town read but Andrius, GIF, and Cabd are no longer town reads, with GIF and Cabd falling into scum-territory. Worth noting, but I don't know to what end. :/
AJ actually notices this right away. Very astute! 2 explains that if GIF and Cabd are town, then TD is scum, and vice-versa seems true. 1337 explains this fairly.
2's work against TD is pretty interesting, but what's more telling of a town-alignment is how 2 asks 2-confirmed-town why certain players are in scum-town lists. Just feels really town to me to be asking things from people you know are town, and discerning shifts in attitudes about players.
I really wish 2 would explain the vote in 1447.
2 calls Reverend terrible. I can actually agree with this. I was sure of Sven being town, but Reverend had to go and ruin that for me. Reverend's posts have been really toxic and haven't moved the game forward for town as much as I'd like.
1640 just rings true as town. This is the kind of posting I find myself doing as town.
1655 actually gets to the heart of why I won't be voting for Rev.
Buildermar (hope that's spelled right) gets reaaaaallly frustrated and starts capslocking out, although this sort of rage seems hinted at in earlier posts.


Ultimately? I'm reading this slot as town. 2's just been really held back with votes and hasn't put forth any bullshit scum-reads. All of 2's reads are pretty explained at one point or another, and through ISO, it's really easy to see how 2 came to have those reads through interaction with other players.

That said, I'm actually pretty confident that there's scum between our famous lurkers (Everyone with less post than the FUCKING MOD ((TD, TMT, Andrius, Sajin, dntfckingcare, Keybladeweilder))).

I've got this boner for active-players being scum, but I'll rest it for now.
In fact, out of the active players, I'm so sure that Nacho, 2, B&B, Reverend, and Orc are town that I'm actually willing to doubt them because they've so perfectly played themselves into that bracket. GIF, I'm not so sure about, but his conversations with me make him pretty damn town. Cabd, Ghostlin, AJ, BRO, Rach, and Mac are maybe-town for me, and that's the scariest thing. I'm less/more confident about some of those than others, but, damn, I just don't know.

For now,
VOTE: TiphaineDeath
You're the scummiest.

[Mac]

hey varsoon.

aside from the utter clumsiness of rule breaking, how did your gambit work?

[Varsoon]

@Sajin: Sorry about being shitty town.
Give me the post number of your case and ask any other questions you now have.
I've been all over the place in this game, and I'd like to -actually- do some town work rather than cynical alignment confirmations.

@SAJIN: I want to re-iterate what I've said here.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that there's not much hypocritical, considering that I've got less than half the posts that 2 does.
How do people not have a solid read on 2 yet?
I'm doing an ISO right now to solve this once and for all, at least, for myself.
There's no way a player is 400 posts deep and people haven't agreed on an alignment.

Post count is not indicative of alignment nor is it indicative of how easy someone is to read.

You probably just have a flawed perspective on post count->alignment.

Just lower your fluff content and keep your posts on topic is all I ask. One of the reasons Orc could not find your gambit is the amount of fluff posts in the thread. Post 1006 is the relevant concerns I brought up about you and I am still interested in why you self described yourself as a weaker voice and I am also curious what you think is a "suffocating playstyle". Look it up in that post for context.

And yes 400 posts may not be enough to determine alignment.

Look, I can understand that, but there's definite trends in how active scum are, right? Furthermore, I postulate that if a player has posted a lot (400 posts qualifies), then those posts should, somewhere, somehow, be indicative of alignment. Not that many players are so skilled in blowing smoke up our asses.

I'll try to keep fluff posts to a minimum, but I want you to know that I typically don't post unless I have a reason to do so.
In regards to 1006:
I see myself as a weaker voice because I don't have very much experience on this site. More experienced players are less likely to consider what I have to say, and actually seem to prefer conversations that exclude me. Often, I bring up who I think is scum, and it gets largely ignored, or blown off as me giving off lots of noise rather than actually hunting scum.
The suffocation of a weak voice refers to when people discredit me, or other players who aren't given much town-merit. Something along the lines of what Orc is doing, where he considers everything I have to say as absurd, rather than, you know, holding some sort of content or approach. It's especially bad when personal assaults are tied in, as it makes me not want to do work for town because town doesn't care/will treat me like crap whenever I do. The same goes for people treating other players that way. Suffocation is a way of keeping town that could have a say from wanting to participate, and, therefore, reads as scummy to me.
I feel I am a weak voice because I can't start a wagon, no matter how much evidence or text or effort I pour into it. I can put a vote, but people won't buy it unless it's backed by one of the 'bigger' players.

Varsoon: question:


Why do you decide to change your play style?

Claiming vanillager is suspect at best, but I'm sure you do not do this every game(pulling this shit assumption out of my mouth, but yeah)

Why do you choose this style of play for this game?

Oh, I decided awhile ago that I'm claiming my alignment in every game I play.
It'll give me laughs and it'll be really funny whenever I finally roll scum and claim it immediately.
Of course, for the people who can't fathom why I'd do it, they WIFOM all over the place.
It's fun to watch people doubt you, when you're telling the truth. They'll scream and shout and run circles all because of one little truth.
You've seen how that's been in this game, neh? It's telling of alignments, I feel. It lets me get better reads on folks when I can say a truth and others foam at the mouth over it.

What is interesting is that you're quick to call me vanilla here and otherwise. I never claimed VT. Just said my role wasn't very cool.
For this game, I'm taking a bit of a hybrid approach. I'm pushing the buttons of players I know how to pressure, and I'm sussing out a few reads for myself and for others.
I don't think I've done a lot of work for town, unless they read my interactions and interpretations as confirming a few townies in.
I'd like to get a lynch in before the day ends, so I'll be a bit less fluff-posty, I suppose.

[Mac]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Your demonic glee at Varshoon's gambit and trying to lead Town indicate two things to me:

1) You're Town
2) You're glad to see Varshoon fail at this.

bad logic here.

maybe he just found it really funny that it would break the rules so brazenly? I know I did.

[Varsoon]

hey varsoon.

aside from the utter clumsiness of rule breaking, how did your gambit work?

It confirmed Reverend as town for me, even if he's a really rude player.

Also, the way 2 interacted with it, wanting me to use it on him, then calling me retarded once I revealed what I was up to--that's pretty town, too.

So, ultimately, I got 2 town of it, which, frankly, is way better than the 1 tell it would've given me.
:3

[Mac]

Right now nacho and Mac hit me as town.

Null on AJ.

Haven't paid much attention to Orc or 2,, but Nacho literally always plays the same from what Ive seen. So nulln o him

Mac and nacho are actually posting helpful things, whereas AJ is just being.... AJ.

these three posts are pretty contradictory.

[Varsoon]

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Your demonic glee at Varshoon's gambit and trying to lead Town indicate two things to me:

1) You're Town
2) You're glad to see Varshoon fail at this.

bad logic here.

maybe he just found it really funny that it would break the rules so brazenly? I know I did.

Mac, have I told you that you're solid by me?
You keep making me smile in this game, and it's posts like this that make me think you're definitely town.

[Mac]

hey varsoon.

aside from the utter clumsiness of rule breaking, how did your gambit work?

It confirmed Reverend as town for me, even if he's a really rude player.

Also, the way 2 interacted with it, wanting me to use it on him, then calling me retarded once I revealed what I was up to--that's pretty town, too.

So, ultimately, I got 2 town of it, which, frankly, is way better than the 1 tell it would've given me.
:3

I want to know how it worked though. buldermar's clever; perhaps he thought he could manipulate it.

map it out for me.