Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

1 shot SK was in my game.

And there is no known role as a knifesmith. I know you can have a variant role in a normal but idk if that fits with a 4-shot joat

[hp [leaves]]

Then stop pretending to know what it is if you're going to back down like that.

It's a gunsmith with knife flavor. Doctor is to knifesmith what vig is to gunsmith.

Also you said I was 5-shot an hour ago. Why aren't you being consistent at all?

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

You are essentially a 5 shot but as whoever pointed out, the BP isn't an active ability so doesn't really count as a 5th Per se.

But you are wrong. Gunsmith finds anyone with a gun and I don't think doctor would count as having a knife.

I really don't beleive your claim now. Vote stays til dashie and I can talk.

[hapahauli]

I'm pretty sure HP is town, or at the very least NOT scum.

1) Sloppy claims are usually town-claims.

Townies often don't care about keeping their story straight (since they're innocent to begin with), so a lot of claims become very sloppy and spontaneous. I think this is one of them.

Contrast this with AC's claim. His 1-shot doctor claim was incredibly neatly packaged, had a clean story behind it, and had all loose ends tied. It's incredibly different from this current scenario, in which HP basically assumed his claim was legit (which is a really townie trait), and bombed his claim without worrying about the consequences.

2) HP is showing no survivalist-mentality.

What does "scum-HP" have to gain from this claim? If he wanted to lynch Scott, he probably could have done so without claiming. Basically HP put himself in a position where he would get lynched if Scott flipped green, and making that 1-for-1 trade at this stage in the game (right after one of your scum-buddies dies) makes very little sense.

This is also why I doubt he's a 3rd party role. 3rd parties often want to lay low and surivive at all costs. This claim on his part not only puts him at risk to get lynched, but also puts him at risk to get shot by scum.

3) His "defense" makes sense.

1st, I wasn't here for the majority of the second day (because of the speedlynch, even though it was justified) so I didn't have time to comment at all
2nd, I do not breadcrumb my targets. Predictable actions=bad

Last day, SB's play consisted entirely of pushing Toomai's lynch while opposing ac's. Then he jumped on the ac bandwagon when he saw the lynch was inevitable. That's scum play.

All of this is true. HP simply wasn't around on day 2 to make any comments on Scott. Furthermore, his reasons for suspecting Scott are legit.

[hapahauli]

As a second part, I think voting

Scott Brosius

is the best decision for today.

Firstly, HP's comments on scott make a ton of sense:

Last day, SB's play consisted entirely of pushing Toomai's lynch while opposing ac's. Then he jumped on the ac bandwagon when he saw the lynch was inevitable. That's scum play.

This is a 100% accurate representation of Scott's Day 2 play. He first goes after Toomai to start the day, while keeping his options open on AC:

VOTE: Cheery Pie

I'd like to have a little conversation with you about the last week of this game. What are your scumreads? Looking over your filter, all of the effort you put into this game is into criticizing the actions and logic of other players, while putting nothing on the table yourself.

@ ac1983fan

I could functionally vote you as well. Why were you not present in the thread at all in the last few days of D1?

Going through the ISO, this is a good point about CP. But Toomai lynch still needs to happen.

Vote: Toomai

acfan should claim an action/inaction especially with only one shot. With the flip including the compulsive modifier, the claim seems more reasonable having the 1-shot. However, that reasoning isn't strong and acfan's play has suggested otherwise.

...then when it's 100% clear the AC wagon is gaining steam, proceeds to bus his scumbuddy for questionable justification:

I don't get on wagons with my top scum read, but since toomai has left, I feel better about acfan. I'm not buying the claim, the actions don't make sense, and the play is indicative of scum who has bought time, regardless of how busy he claims to be. He's trying a halfhearted push against me, and it doesn't really seem like he is trying.

This is the first time Toomai has jumped off a wagon before it crashed and it will be very suspicious if acfan flips scum. Especially since he was at L-1.

unvote, vote: acfan

He votes AC without ever talking about why AC is scummy. In fact, I'd like to emphasize that he basically

never

talks about why AC was scum in his entire filter. Instead, he justifies voting AC solely on the basis that Toomai "left the wagon", which reads as a horrendously weak bus-attempt.

[hapahauli]

As for Cheery Pie, it feels like I hate every single one of his posts, which might mean I'm probably confirmation-biasing a bit. Reading over his filter again, I'm not comfortable lynching him today. Even though i'm still leaning scum on him, I need some more time to parse his filter and see how he scum-hunts.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Well lets finish mass claim. Dashie said she will try to be on later but she also questions the knifesmith claim.

@ CP - claim and popcorn.

unvote

[hapahauli]

Well lets finish mass claim. Dashie said she will try to be on later but she also questions the knifesmith claim.

@ CP - claim and popcorn.

unvote

Actually yes, I do want to hear her thoughts on possible setup balance and the viability of the claim. Because all of what I said above means very little if the claim isn't actually possible.

[Dyslexicon]

Yup, plus Scotts sloppy insinuations D1. And besides being quite naive in the way he claimed, HP's claim feels too elaborate for scum.

VOTE: Scott

[Dyslexicon]

How is a claim not possible? O.o

[hapahauli]

How is a claim not possible? O.o

Rainbow reviews these setups, so perhaps "balance-wise" it might not be possible. However on the surface, I don't see any reason why that would be the case. Hence me wanting to hear from Rainbow.

[GoodCopBadCop]

@Hapa - CP and acfan have been defending/calling each other town hard. They aren't buddies.

acfan gave a list with CP at the top. CP defended acfan hard day 1.

acfan's reads on Scott and HP were just blank, "haven't seen enough but slight scum" reads. One if not both of these two are scum.

- GC

[Dyslexicon]

How is a claim not possible? O.o

Rainbow reviews these setups, so perhaps "balance-wise" it might not be possible. However on the surface, I don't see any reason why that would be the case. Hence me wanting to hear from Rainbow.

Thanks. If it's a fake claim hp should get a diploma.

[GoodCopBadCop]

So town so far has:

compulsive neighbourizer (day talk)
One-shot Tracker
JoAT

[hapahauli]

@Hapa - CP and acfan have been defending/calling each other town hard. They aren't buddies.

acfan gave a list with CP at the top. CP defended acfan hard day 1.

acfan's reads on Scott and HP were just blank, "haven't seen enough but slight scum" reads. One if not both of these two are scum.

- GC

Idunno 'bout "hard."

AC fan's read on Cheery:

Cheery Pie = Seems town. Their thinking seems in line with mine most of the time. Their initial push on NicCage I'm not sure I liked but doesn't seem like it comes from a scum perspective.

And even Cheery went after AC at some point on Day 1. In fact, he seemed willing to consider hammering AC on Day 2 (but I beat him to the punch):

Yes I assumed he was telling the truth, but still wanted more clarity about why he choose that action and this made you confirmed town in my mind along with your play before the acfan wagon.

Re: PonyJake claim, that claim makes sense for some of your actions, but please don't breadcrumb-wifom your results again, they just made you look worse.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Varsoon

I'm not voting acfan quite yet since I'm waiting on Pie to remember to do his post.

And on second thought, this post by Cheery is just... ugh. Assumes AC is town and his claim is legit, and seems open to the possibility of voting him, but isn't just because he's waiting for Pie to post.

[hapahauli]

So yeah, I'm pretty sure the scumteam is Scott + Cheery.

[GoodCopBadCop]

acfan voting Scott looked like a last second buss. I can vote Scott for association tells alone.
Hp isn't clear if Scott flips scum though (unless I missed something).

- GC

[hapahauli]

HP wouldn't be "in the clear" completely, though bussing your only scum-buddy at this stage is a pretty ballsy play. It also doesn't preclude HP from being a 3rd party or something.

Again though, I'd definitely lynch Cheery before HP if Scott flipped red.

[hapahauli]

It also doesn't seem like the scum-team is all that coordinated this game to pull of such a play if both AC and Scott are two of the team members.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

How is a claim not possible? O.o

Can you find me a description of knifesmith role?

I can't find one anywhere (granted I'm on my phone)

A role that in hp's words finds a doctor? Why would this role make sense?

A "new" role which this would be, would have to be a singular role and not grouped with other roles.

Plus I think hp said earlier his role investigates for SKs, that already has a name. It's called SK cop or FBI agent.

I'll let dashie post her thoughts as they may differ from mine.

[Daemon385]

So town so far has:

compulsive neighbourizer (day talk)
One-shot Tracker
JoAT

And Toomai's VT call as well if your counting everyone who has roleclaimed/revealed through death

[hapahauli]

How is a claim not possible? O.o

Can you find me a description of knifesmith role?

I can't find one anywhere (granted I'm on my phone)

A role that in hp's words finds a doctor? Why would this role make sense?

A "new" role which this would be, would have to be a singular role and not grouped with other roles.

Plus I think hp said earlier his role investigates for SKs, that already has a name. It's called SK cop or FBI agent.

I'll let dashie post her thoughts as they may differ from mine.

I'd be pretty amazed if scum invented a new role off the top of their head like that. Maybe as a lol-troll claim, but this doesn't seem like one.

[Dyslexicon]

How is a claim not possible? O.o

Can you find me a description of knifesmith role?

No.

I can't find one anywhere (granted I'm on my phone)

Ok.

A role that in hp's words finds a doctor? Why would this role make sense?

An investigative role that would find scum/doctor. Don't see any reason why it won't make sense. Hp already said that scum seems to kill with knives, so it would make sense.

A "new" role which this would be, would have to be a singular role and not grouped with other roles.

Why would it have to be a singular role? Is that a rule on the site or something?

Plus I think hp said earlier his role investigates for SKs, that already has a name. It's called SK cop or FBI agent.

I can't find where hp says this. I can't see any reason this should be impossible, expect if it messes up the balance. Also, I can't see scum making up weird roles that elaborate, and still have logic you can follow.

I'll let dashie post her thoughts as they may differ from mine.

Bolded.
This pretty much explains the role:

post_id=4992632 time=1369861157 user_id=10128]Well, I'm a one shot knifesmith. I can check if someone has a knife or not. Doctors have knives. Mafia seems to kill with knives. So since my ability wasn't named "Cop", I assumed both of those roles to be in the game.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

This is the only thing I can find - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16177

And it's a role that has never ACTUALLY been used up to that point.

As to why would scum completely fabricate a role?

Why not? If people exist that believe scum wont create fake roles, scum have all the motivation to create such a role.

[Dyslexicon]

This is the only thing I can find - http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16177

And it's a role that has never ACTUALLY been used up to that point.

As to why would scum completely fabricate a role?

Why not? If people exist that believe scum wont create fake roles, scum have all the motivation to create such a role.

So we have why, and why not. I believe it's much less likely that scum would make up a role, especially when it's 1-shot in a Joat. I don't see why they'd go through the trouble. I follow his logic. The way it was presented was quite messy, and I didn't follow at all first, but when he explained it in more detail it made sense. So it would have to be a really well planned maneuver if it was false. Most likely true imo.