Open 500 - Popcorn Mafia: Game Over!

[don_johnson]

if you apply it. yes. thats kind of how the game works. for our first shot, the hydra or the lurker wouldn't be bad choices. kind of like how in a regular game, certain playstyles draw pressure.

[Wisdom]

Or the first shot should go on someone who's likely to flip scum instead.

[don_johnson]

and? it depends on who you apply the logic to. like i said:

my list starts with everyone on it. its up to the individual player to get themselves off it.

if you don't get off the list, then by default you remain on the list.

tell me again about Jacob. why do you think jacob is scum?

[Wisdom]

Because he refuses to provide content.

[don_johnson]

if you say so.

jacob: is this true?

[JacobSavage]

No.

However I have been busier than usual.

[Bert]

When you guys get the gun I will happily explain myself
Also if you make a good case against me we can talk

- OK, so I just learned that Fegelein has experience with TIP. You have a high tolerance level for his antics, Fegelein lol

Oil: not TIP. maybe feg. i did like your "pick a name out of a hat idea." here's a list-

ArcAngel9
Kerberos
borkjerfkin
fegelein

The idea you're referring to is #298:

like, that kind of thought is only consistent with a town mindset; reads can be a lot of work for town, but they cannot be a lot of work for scum. they're just names out of a hat.

DJ: Did you pick those names out of a hat? And are you going to try to convince us that this above post is a significant contribution from you?

- Wisdom, I just took note of your response about people reading/misreading your "superiority". I hope to hear more from people about what "scum Wisdom" plays like.

TIP and Science can stop fighting now though, all it does is add noise

Amen!!!

[Bert]

Him forgetting about the pre-game joke he made so soon felt strange. His pushes are good, but they are all very easy; obviously shooting town is a bad thing, but that's not really that interesting. I also don't like the "oh I can't read Wisdom because I misread him recently", it screams scum theatre to me.

I'd love to straighten this up:

1) "Shooting town = bad y'all" was not the premise of any point I made. People's flimsy justification (dj/pope) for doing it with the caveat of "we either get information!! or it's a hydra that'll be so great!!!" as being the primary motivator for this over "Hey I think they might be scum" IS the premise.
2) I don't know what to say about the Arc thing -- it's not that important to me. I'm town, so my streak is over.
3) I meant what I said about Wisdom - this is exactly how he opened Micro 151 (undirected questions with rare followup) and I read him as scum for it. Check the game out. Wisdom, your thoughts on this?

DJ's weird for having Arc on his list but not Jacob -- they're both huge lurksacks, why's one more scummy than the other?
Feregein's push on NS still seems disingenuous.
TIP reminds me of Remembrance town.
NS is town.
Mollie is doing her best not to put me in her town pile in #325 even though everything she says there makes it seem like she should be.

Anyone else I don't have an opinion about yet.

I finally connected the dots and realized this alt was Bork's. I was trying to find out why he didn't like Fegelein's play, and finally found what I overlooked. OK, Bork, it's really hypocritical that you have so soon forgotten that you called SOMEONE ELSE weird for putting Arc on a list and not Jacob.

And days later you mysteriously leave Jacob off your list and don't even mention him:

NS is still town and is ESPECIALLY not scum if d_j flips scum due to the post above this one.

(Don, AA, Feg) right now. AA is definitely active lurking at this point -- she is active elsewhere. Feg came out looking weird when Oil said they were shooting TIP -- his best denunciation of that was "well his meta should indicate that his playstyle this game could come from either alignment" which is hardly a ringing endorsement of TIP town, yet it still seemed he wanted to denounce that shot choice pretty definitively.

Maybe Bert as an outlier just cause I don't have a good handle on him -- everyone else I feel decently about.

It bothers me moreso since Oil said you mysteriously forgot about a joke you made "too soon." That's two things now.

[borkjerfkin]

The situation changed:

AA is posting all over the site and not here. That wasn't determinable at the beginning of the game, and Jacob is not doing that.

That "joke" is something i made outside of this game and before it even started, but it's good that you're willing to parrot other people's arguments without understanding what the hell they're talking about.

[Bert]

You mentioned that you feel decently about everyone else (which includes Jacob).

Why do you feel decently about Jacob now?

[Bert]

It's good that you have not mentioned why you feel decently about Jacob.

[Bert]

And if this is parroting, it's adding to your aura of suspiciousness, which is why I mentioned something that a confirmed townie mentioned. You call others weird for leaving people out of reads, and I am here calling you weird for not being as consistent as you demand others to be.

[borkjerfkin]

You mentioned that you feel decently about everyone else (which includes Jacob).

Why do you feel decently about Jacob now?

He hasn't done anything scummy (#456 in particular reads gut town); why is Jacob a special case here? Why don't you care about my other reads?

And if this is parroting, it's adding to your aura of suspiciousness, which is why I mentioned something that a confirmed townie mentioned.

You really want to play the "I'm just repeating something confirmed town said" card? Especially when you obviously didn't understand the context behind the point you repeated? I don't know if OT was just gauging my reaction to the question, but he never tried to push that point as something scummy, which you conveniently ignored when you parroted him.

Or are you trying to tell me that whatever I said to/about AA in the open queue is something I'm obligated to bring up once the game starts? That is a standard I should be held to? Because that is dishonest.

You call others weird for leaving people out of reads, and I am here calling you weird for not being as consistent as you demand others to be.

The situation changed:

AA is posting all over the site and not here. That wasn't determinable at the beginning of the game, and Jacob is not doing that.

Why are you ignoring my response?

[Bert]

I did not ignore your response. All you said is Arcangel is scummier than Jacob because she is posting all over the site. Jacob is posting elsewhere too? Jacob has said he was busy too, like Arcangel.

Has Arcangel said anything particularly scummy?

Now you finally mentioned a detail as to WHY Jacob is town to you: THANK YOU SIR!

Cool

Also my scum team is:

TIP, Fegelein, notscience and me.

Though to be honest thats just whose posted on this page.

In other words, your reads are shit and just because you have a lot of them doesn't mean anything.

[Bert]

His thoughts are of significance here, so I don't see anything wrong with making that point. Defensive much?

[Bert]

Thoughts are still thoughts, regardless if Oil felt the need to push forward that point.

[Bert]

Also, I did not say I did not care for your reads. Do you expect me to say I care about your other reads? I point out things I find suspicious. I do not see you telling me that you care about my reads. How about acknowledging mine? And everyone else in the room's?

[borkjerfkin]

Has Arcangel said anything particularly scummy?

No.

Jacob is posting elsewhere too?

His posts in this game are commensurate with his overall activity level on the site and in other games. AA's are not (even close).

p-edit:

His thoughts are of significance here, so I don't see anything wrong with making that point. Defensive much?

You attacked me, and you attacked me for something idiotic that you did not read up on, so instead of trying to weasel in a semantic argument by calling my response "defensive", go ahead and explain how that response is scummy (since you're implying it is by making this comment) and prove to me that you're not just flinging shit.

Thoughts are still thoughts, regardless if Oil felt the need to push forward that point.

He barely pushed it, I responded, and we moved on. I'll ask again: what do YOU think: should I be admonished for not bringing in outside game influences (that involve other people in this game) voluntarily at the start of a game?

[borkjerfkin]

Also, I did not say I did not care for your reads. Do you expect me to say I care about your other reads? I point out things I find suspicious. I do not see you telling me that you care about my reads. How about acknowledging mine? And everyone else in the room's?

Considering that my grievances with don and Fegelein (and earlier TIP, but he looks town now) had everything to do with reads: what are you talking about? Why are you inferring that I don't care about your reads? I never said nor implied it.

I found it odd that your initial angle only had to do with Jacob, which is why I asked the question.

[Bert]

I'm not inferring that you don't care about my reads. I'm saying that just because I don't verbalize my "caring" for your reads does not imply that I don't actually read your reads. And if you hadn't made that hiccup by posting on another hydra, then I would have had much more time to have digested your hydra-post. All you said was "fuck hydras" after your post on Remilia, so that leaves US all in the dark about what your reads are unless we go back and connect the dots (for those of us who don't know your hydra name).

[borkjerfkin]

All you said was "fuck hydras" after your post on Remilia, so that leaves US all in the dark about what your reads are unless we go back and connect the dots (for those of us who don't know your hydra name).

I don't know what to tell you -- I thought it was obvious that was me and that it was a hydra slip. It was an honest mistake and I apologize for the confusion, but:

All you said was "fuck hydras" after your post on Remilia, so that leaves US all in the dark about what your reads are unless we go back and connect the dots

Please please tell me you're not hinting that you think I did this intentionally (I am honestly not sure how to read this sentence)

[Bert]

This can go back and forth and back and forth; obviously you think the Nacho point is pure BS. We have been talking about other people's activity OUTSIDE the game as a factor. Thank you for explaining why you think Jacob is town.

Do you have a handle now on whether you think I am scum then? Of course you will say my play is shit, and I'm not arguing with that - I've never lasted past a game day before - but still, I'm interested to hear now since I am your 'outlier.'

And no I don't think you did the hydra post intentionally.

[borkjerfkin]

Do you have a handle now on whether you think I am scum then? Of course you will say my play is shit, and I'm not arguing with that - I've never lasted past a game day before - but still, I'm interested to hear now since I am your 'outlier.'

Well:

I think Don is scum -- I want him to be the first shot.

Between (TIP, NS, Feg) I think Feg is most likely the one scum there; they all have heavy interactions (which is why I don't think there is more than one scum there) but NS is gut towning for me and if one of TIP/Feg is scum pushing him it's definitely Feg.

AA is an active lurker which is suspicious due to her activity elsewhere. She is shootable.
JS is a passive lurker with a minor towntell. He is not shootable.

Wisdom is holding at a solid barely north of null right now but as I've previously mentioned his play is EXACTLY like a game I just got out of with him in it, and he was town there. If there's anything I don't like about his play it's that he will not interact with me so far -- I've asked him 1 or 2 questions that have not been answered.

I think Kerb is pretty town for her high level of paranoia, picking up on my point about Don, reading NS as town, and I just like Maragal's #492 overall.

You're the outlier in the sense that I didn't really know where to put you prior to this talk. Now that we've had it, I don't like the initial reasons behind your push on me, and before you posted #571 I might have called you scum over AA, but #571 looks like you're legitimately trying to figure me out. Additionally:

Of course you will say my play is shit, and I'm not arguing with that - I've never lasted past a game day before - but still, I'm interested to hear now since I am your 'outlier.'

This sort of pathos generally comes from town. So you're not one of my top shot preferences.

[borkjerfkin]

Also I like the majority of your reads so that's ++ for you too

[don_johnson]

^^ nice omgus.

bert: no. i did not pick my list out of a hat. i have explained why each and every name is on my list. if oil tycoons has questions they can ask them. the "pick a name out of a hat" idea was a joke. sort of. i like my list and i would be fine if oil shot someone on my list.

jacob: thats what i thought, thanks.

wisdom: would you consider "Because he refuses to provide content." similar to the statement "because he is flying under the radar."