Mini 1449 - Ordinary Town

[hapahauli]

Talking heavily in the QT right now. Kind of hard cause I have to translate what's being said to her.

Why translate? Just let Rainbow post for herself. I'm 100x more interested in what she has to say because she's the whole reason behind this role-claiming mess.

[GoodCopBadCop]

Fair analysis Hapa. What do you think if we make Hp investigate JFR?

- GC

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Talking heavily in the QT right now. Kind of hard cause I have to translate what's being said to her.

Why translate? Just let Rainbow post for herself. I'm 100x more interested in what she has to say because she's the whole reason behind this role-claiming mess.

she's asking me questions, I am providing her answers since she can't access the site.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

dashie actually thinks we should be NL because we have an even number. I don't really like NL, but my experience is lacking and I know she has suggested this before in other games I have played with her.

[hapahauli]

Fair analysis Hapa. What do you think if we make Hp investigate JFR?

- GC

Not sure. Long filter - I have to read more. TBH I always lean towards checking people who are inactive and I won't be able to get reliable information out of. Whatever JFR may be, he's active, and I'd rather use the check on someone quiet.

dashie actually thinks we should be NL because we have an even number. I don't really like NL, but my experience is lacking and I know she has suggested this before in other games I have played with her.

A no-lynch is a really bad idea right now.

Firstly, if we get another doctor save, it'll no longer be "even" and we'll get an extra mislynch instead. A no-lynch right now forgoes that possibility.

A no-lynch is something you do at mylo, and not simply every time the score is "even." We have a very interesting day with a ton of information, and a no-lynch is a complete cop-out.

[hapahauli]

Also Jake, what are your thoughts on the most recent analysis I posted?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4995844

[Scott Brosius]

Ok I still believe

Scott

is the correct lynch for today. As for Jake/Rainbow, I'll finish my thoughts/analysis of them later tonight. I still don't have a concrete opinion.

VOTE: Scott Brosius

1) Lynching the claimed-roles today is a terrible idea.

While the role combination seems powerful (especially the JOAT), it's not out of the ordinary balance-wise. Furthermore, behavioral analysis (particularly of HP) strongly suggests that the claim is town-motivated.

As a last bit, using their "powers" (real or not) can very easily force scum into sub-optimal decisions tonight. For example, even if Cheery is fake-claiming doc, mafia can't shoot the person he "saves" else it outs Cheery as mafia.

2) Behavioral analysis suggests that Scott is scum.

Let's not forget the most important thing in this game: behavioral analysis.

Scott is lurky, passive, and does not care about this game. Furthermore his Day 2 actions are objectively the scummiest in the game, in which he pushes Toomai until the ac1983fan wagon gains steam, then posts this:

I don't get on wagons with my top scum read, but since toomai has left, I feel better about acfan. I'm not buying the claim, the actions don't make sense, and the play is indicative of scum who has bought time, regardless of how busy he claims to be. He's trying a halfhearted push against me, and it doesn't really seem like he is trying.

This is the first time Toomai has jumped off a wagon before it crashed and it will be very suspicious if acfan flips scum. Especially since he was at L-1.

unvote, vote: acfan

Note that

none

of this post is about why ac1983fan is scum. In fact, nowhere in Scott's filter does he ever show any analysis/thoughts on ac1938fan. Scott seems more interested in framing Toomai after an AC flip rather than lynching AC.

Scott has been suspicious of Toomai all game, and from his filter, seems more interested in calling Toomai scum rather than pushing him or justifying his read. The last time he actually analyzed Toomai's filter was on Day 1:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4960151

...in which he voted Toomai late in the day to start off a wagon which no one was on. Then he peaced out for the rest of the day and never pushed the Toomai wagon.

Finally, notice how he completely forgets about Toomai when HP calls him out. Instead of being suspicious of BOTH Toomai and HP, he's all of a sudden balls-to-the-wall against HP. This is a clear example of

scum desperation

.

3) The most reasonable explanation for the lack of NK was that HP roleblocked the mafia shot.

There are two possible reasons for the lack of NK last night. Either Scott made the shot and was roleblocked, or scum shot Jake/Rainbow. Think about how risky it is to shoot into Jake/Rainbow on N2. That slot is the obvious N2 doctor save, and the chances of scum shooting right into such an obvious save are low (or atleast is to be doubted). This is further backed up by the N1 kill, where scum chose to make a "safe" shot into Zef instead of killing the obvious N1 doctor target (myself, since everyone thought I was town, and I was balls-to-the-wall going after confirmed mafia).

The only other option is that Scott was successfully Roleblocked, and that makes the most sense to me.

Lynching the overpowered ridiculous JOAT claim is not a good idea? With completely made up roles and coming from someone who was a strong possibility of being the lynch today?

I'm still suspicious of Toomai for wagon movement. He hops on every wagon, EXCEPT the lynching wagon of scum. I was cautious about the acfan claim D1 since there was no counterclaim, but the amendment was ridiculous combined with my top scumread conveniently jumping off the wagon when it was gaining steam. Certainly reason enough for me to believe there is a connection. However, when I'm being accused of being roleblocked when I have no powers, I am 100% sure hp is lying. How is this scum desperation? One player I have serious scum reads on, another is completely lying about their actions...who would you go with?

Also I had suspicions about acfan early on below but I had stronger reads so your

In fact, nowhere in Scott's filter does he ever show any analysis/thoughts on ac1938fan.

read proves you aren't even looking back into my filter and are just assuming.

@ Scott Brosius

@acfan

His first post was

very iffy

and he hasn't posted since then; it could just be his newness clouding his actions but for the moment I think this is a good place for my vote.

Terrible reason to call someone scummy. What do you mean by "his post is iffy" exactly?

I mean, it just showed off signs of a player trying to make themselves look like they are something they are not, which is something scum inherently need to do whereas town do not. But I think his posts since then have shown it was more of a noob behavior than a scum behavior, so UNVOTE:

that's all that sticks out which hasn't really been said already and all I have time to post for the moment.

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Im back, bear with me here because this may be a bit of a large pill to swallow for some of you as I have been thinking about this for quite some time.

First I will start with the "for sures"

1) If SB is town, we are town. This is because the kill had to go somewhere N2, and if it wasn't SB being blocked, we got protected.
2) If CP is scum, SB is scum. Same principle applied in reverse. The kill went somewhere.
3) No more than one of me, CP and hp are scum. Balance

A couple "probably" things

1) At least one of hp and SB are some sort of scum
2) hp probably DOES have a RB ability. Likely either mafia or third party.

A few things that need explaining

1) hp being told that his BP ability is used up. Yeah RIGHT. With a doctor you (not only have a BP ability) but get told when its used? So we can distinguish between that 'no death' and doctor saving somepony? That doesn't happen
2) You claim that you didn't use the 'cop' ability because "mafia kill with knives". How do you come to that conclusion before the N1 death? Also flavor in normals is meaningless. Its also against site rules unless the mod puts "player X - stabbed night Y".
3) In an attempt to say that you wanted to save the cop for the time its most accurate, you use the LEAST accurate role, RB. Not only do you have to hit scum, but you have to hit scum submitting the kill. This basically (for gamestate comparison) ment if you used the 'cop' you had a 2/11 chance of catching scum. Using the RB you had a 1/11 chance.
4) You are talking about investigating us. When as stated - we cant be scum if SB is town. Checking him and getting a town result clears us and him at once. This is scum trying to not clear players.

No lynch was one of those things I was thinking early on, but holes keep appearing in hp claim. In the event hp is town, he should be voting no lynch. Its the obviously right play for him as town. He votes no lynch, investigates SB. Clears two or confirms scum.

I support the hp lynch though.

We are basically being asked to believe that he is town who

1) Has passive BP
2) Was told there is a doctor
3) Somehow knew that scum used "knives" before that happened
4) Is BP and a BG when there is a doctor
5) Opted to vig the most obviously town player in the game whos name he dropped

ONCE

(in a "X is worse than zef") comment
6) Opted to use his roleblock over a cop
7) Opted to use his roleblock over protecting a PR who just claimed a guilty result

That's not even showing why he is scum in relation to acfan.

------

post_id=4976839 time=1369339508 user_id=10128]

Hp, thoughts on CD and AC?

CD?

I might look into ac later but his priority will keep rising if he keeps his silence.

Its basically all this. Passive posts about him, more looking to give him outs than to call him town or not. Not to mention is role which

CONFIRMS THERE IS A DOCTOR

showing interest in lynching the claimed doctor.

Or acfan and his interaction with hp. Because there is a ton of it:

hp[leaves] = Uncomfortably quiet. Light scum read.

And by a ton I mean five words. Plus a username.

-----

So hp is almost for sure scum. I actually wouldn't be shocked to learn his is a SK/mafia and caught SB who is the other if there is a third party though

@hp - You are going to be lynched today. If you are mafia though and claim it though, we will lynch SB first because that forces him into being the SK assuming you blocked him.

[hapahauli]

I'm still suspicious of Toomai for wagon movement.

He hops on every wagon, EXCEPT the lynching wagon of scum

. I was cautious about the acfan claim D1 since there was no counterclaim, but the amendment was ridiculous combined with my top scumread conveniently jumping off the wagon when it was gaining steam.

Oh really?

I'm interested in seeing you make that case.

(Because it isn't true.)

Certainly reason enough for me to believe there is a connection. However, when I'm being accused of being roleblocked when I have no powers, I am 100% sure hp is lying. How is this scum desperation? One player I have serious scum reads on, another is completely lying about their actions...who would you go with?

That doesn't make any sense. All HP did was roleblock you. Hell HP could theoretically be the mafia roleblocker and telling the truth. The fact that you may or may not have powers shouldn't make you suspicious of HP.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Also Jake, what are your thoughts on the most recent analysis I posted?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4995844

1. lynching hp is not a terrible idea because there is too many things that don't make sense and there is a role that doesn't even exsist with the exception of being mentioned in a MD thread a couple of years ago, it never actually saw the light of day. this alone means the claim is BS

2. your behavioiral analysis is flawed cause you assume only scum lurk, and as much as I wish this were true it's not. Plus he was on the AC wagon and HP wasn't and that alone gives me the benefit of the doubt about scott.

3. why is that the most reasonable explanation of a NK when we have a claimed doctor. The doctor claim is hands down more reliable and if mafia assumed we did not have a doctor due to the lack of CC to AC's claim. There are other possible explanations but they are more off the wall.


here is where I am at with you. Day 2 you were trying hard to prevent an AC lynch and he flipped scum. Now you are trying to prevent the lynch of a person who's claim makes absolutely no sense and almost has to be a fake claim. Why he faked it I have no idea, maybe he thought we were naive or something. I can ask that question post game, but for now out of the 2 people, HP is hands down scummier than SB imo

I won't stop a SB lynch and will even vote him if an HP lynch can't go, but everything points to HP scum.

-J

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

and everything dashie said in her huge post is pretty spot on, and it pretty much proves that HP is lying.

[hapahauli]

Two things Dashie:

1) hp being told that his BP ability is used up. Yeah RIGHT. With a doctor you (not only have a BP ability) but get told when its used? So we can distinguish between that 'no death' and doctor saving somepony? That doesn't happen

2) You claim that you didn't use the 'cop' ability because "mafia kill with knives". How do you come to that conclusion before the N1 death? Also flavor in normals is meaningless. Its also against site rules unless the mod puts "player X - stabbed night Y".
3) In an attempt to say that you wanted to save the cop for the time its most accurate, you use the LEAST accurate role, RB. Not only do you have to hit scum, but you have to hit scum submitting the kill. This basically (for gamestate comparison) ment if you used the 'cop' you had a 2/11 chance of catching scum. Using the RB you had a 1/11 chance.
4) You are talking about investigating us. When as stated - we cant be scum if SB is town. Checking him and getting a town result clears us and him at once. This is scum trying to not clear players.

HP claimed his BP was used? Where?

1) Has passive BP

Reasonable. Also a possible 3rd party role. In fact I'm pretty convinced he's a 3rd party at this point.

2) Was told there is a doctor

A reasonable inference given that he shot someone N1 and didn't see another NK.

3) Somehow knew that scum used "knives" before that happened

A reasonble inference given that he's a "knifesmith"

4) Is BP and a BG when there is a doctor

Is that unprecedented? Also, 3rd party.

5) Opted to vig the most obviously town player in the game whos name he dropped ONCE (in a "X is worse than zef") comment

Zef was NOT the most obvious town player. What are you smoking?

6) Opted to use his roleblock over a cop

Mistakes happen. Don't assume perfect play.

7) Opted to use his roleblock over protecting a PR who just claimed a guilty result

So? It sounds to me like he inferred there was a doctor, and chose to use a different role instead of being redundant.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I'd say Hp is 75% 3rd party, 15% town, 10% mafia.

Because the bottom line is that his claim is so unbelievably risky for a mafia to make. If SB is town, he's basically putting himself on the chopping block guarenteed the next day after the mislynch.

As a last point, I find the association between him and AC very weak. A one-liner with a soft-scumread is not grounds to lynch someone.

Compare it to the behavioral analysis of SB, who's voting actions in regards to AC fan are instant-lynchable.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

Compare it to the behavioral analysis of SB, who's voting actions in regards to AC fan are instant-lynchable.

please put the pipe down and walk away for a while.

[hapahauli]

Also Jake, what are your thoughts on the most recent analysis I posted?
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p4995844

1. lynching hp is not a terrible idea because there is too many things that don't make sense and there is a role that doesn't even exsist with the exception of being mentioned in a MD thread a couple of years ago, it never actually saw the light of day. this alone means the claim is BS

How does one even come up with a claim like that? I've played a ton of mafia games in my lifetime, and I still have yet to see a mafia literally invent a role completely unprovoked. He didn't

need

to claim JOAT. Hell he could have claimed town roleblocker easy and we would be sending SB off to the gallows.

2. your behavioiral analysis is flawed cause you assume only scum lurk, and as much as I wish this were true it's not. Plus he was on the AC wagon and HP wasn't and that alone gives me the benefit of the doubt about scott.

It is not a lurk case. Did you not read any damn thing I posted?

I swear it was you who I had to haggle with about my initial AC fan case being NOT a meta case. Read the whole thing before you latch onto a one-liner and make a judgement.

3. why is that the most reasonable explanation of a NK when we have a claimed doctor. The doctor claim is hands down more reliable and if mafia assumed we did not have a doctor due to the lack of CC to AC's claim. There are other possible explanations but they are more off the wall.

here is where I am at with you. Day 2 you were trying hard to prevent an AC lynch and he flipped scum. Now you are trying to prevent the lynch of a person who's claim makes absolutely no sense and almost has to be a fake claim. Why he faked it I have no idea, maybe he thought we were naive or something. I can ask that question post game, but for now out of the 2 people, HP is hands down scummier than SB imo

Don't forget that I'm the entire reason you "tracked" AC N1. Half the reason why I doubled back on it was because you made the wierdiest track breadcrumb in the history of breadcrumbs.

I won't stop a SB lynch and will even vote him if an HP lynch can't go, but everything points to HP scum.

-J

The case on HP is barely anything on behavior and everything about setup speculation.

It's not enough to say that something doesn't make sense from a town perspective. You also have to determine if it makes sense from a scum-perpsective, and it's too monumentally suicidal to come from scum methinks.

[hapahauli]

Compare it to the behavioral analysis of SB, who's voting actions in regards to AC fan are instant-lynchable.

please put the pipe down and walk away for a while.

A summary of SB's analysis on AC:

I don't understand the unvote and lack of revote if that is all that sticks out. This is not town behavior.

Regarding acfan, I don't understand why anyone who is town would not use their vote. I understand why he unvoted, but he presents a new read on Dyslex, yet does not act on that, just simply unvotes.

That's it. And it's all pretty early on Day 1.

Notice that he never comments on the end-of-day AC fan shenanigans, and instead dodges the issue to push a hopeless wagon on Toomai:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4960151
...then awols for the rest of the day.

Then on Day 2, he votes Toomai whilst making some random non-committal comment on AC:

VOTE: Cheery Pie

I'd like to have a little conversation with you about the last week of this game. What are your scumreads? Looking over your filter, all of the effort you put into this game is into criticizing the actions and logic of other players, while putting nothing on the table yourself.

@ ac1983fan

I could functionally vote you as well. Why were you not present in the thread at all in the last few days of D1?

Going through the ISO, this is a good point about CP. But Toomai lynch still needs to happen.

Vote: Toomai

acfan should claim an action/inaction especially with only one shot. With the flip including the compulsive modifier, the claim seems more reasonable having the 1-shot. However, that reasoning isn't strong and acfan's play has suggested otherwise.

***Then votes AC without commenting on why he's suspicious of AC!***

I don't get on wagons with my top scum read, but since toomai has left, I feel better about acfan. I'm not buying the claim, the actions don't make sense, and the play is indicative of scum who has bought time, regardless of how busy he claims to be. He's trying a halfhearted push against me, and it doesn't really seem like he is trying.

This is the first time Toomai has jumped off a wagon before it crashed and it will be very suspicious if acfan flips scum. Especially since he was at L-1.

unvote, vote: acfan

READ. THIS. POST.

This entire post is essentially designed to frame Toomai.

It's a classic fail-bus, and SB's gotta hang.

[hapahauli]

Maybe if I use a pony avatar, people will sheep me more.

Sigh.

[hapahauli]

The last time I was willing to compromise, we went off AC and lynched town. Imma going to be headstrong this time.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

HP claimed his BP was used? Where?

He didn't claim it was used but he claimed to be told if it was. This is stunningly rare (if possibly never before seen) when making a player one shot bulletproof. Limited shot roles aren't even told if they are blocked/etc when they are something like a doctor - why would a BP get it?

2) Was told there is a doctor

A reasonable inference given that he shot someone N1 and didn't see another NK.

No. I mean "there is a knifesmith" is basically saying "there is a doctor". Im actually NOW wondering if hp is a scum SK-cop essentially that also picks up the doctor. That would be pretty awesome.

3) Somehow knew that scum used "knives" before that happened

A reasonble inference given that he's a "knifesmith"

I think that would be something you immediately ask. Sure I go overboard when figuring out my role if its at all up for debate, but he just assumed and moved on.

4) Is BP and a BG when there is a doctor

Is that unprecedented? Also, 3rd party.

Ultra rare. BG and doc are one of those "impossible to break" combos though without a RBer if they circular target. Add in the BP and you have quite a bit of work between the two. A bit much when the game feels just a bit power heavy.

5) Opted to vig the most obviously town player in the game whos name he dropped ONCE (in a "X is worse than zef") comment

Zef was NOT the most obvious town player. What are you smoking?

He absolutely was to me, in a no questions asked type situation. I would have lynched anypony (even with claims CP would have been the only one up for debate) before him D1.

6) Opted to use his roleblock over a cop

Mistakes happen. Don't assume perfect play.

But its simple simple logic. Sure he used a "one shot vig" when it common (is it?) fact that a one shot vig in a 13P game drags town EV down about 5%, but then used a cop that MUST hit an exact scum over a cop that can hit ANY scum? I think he is smarter than that.

7) Opted to use his roleblock over protecting a PR who just claimed a guilty result

So? It sounds to me like he inferred there was a doctor, and chose to use a different role instead of being redundant.

Protects me, loses his BP, confirms me as town. Protects me, doesn't lose BP, he knows kill went somewhere else.

Because the bottom line is that his claim is so unbelievably risky for a mafia to make. If SB is town, he's basically putting himself on the chopping block guarenteed the next day after the mislynch.

Believe it or not, I 100% agree with this. If there is a SK, it is without any question hp. No question - he basically has lost if he is the SK at this point, its just a matter of when. If he is SCUM though and has something showing SB is the SK, he actually should claim it though because SK gets lynched first if we have the choice. Its a win-win for scum, they get to live another day and their partner cant be crosskilled while we don't have to worry about two kills as well.

That deal actually goes for both SB and hp. If you are mafia, confirm the other as SK or even give us probable cause - essentially a "im scum" claim) and you don't get lynched.

SB lynch isn't horrible. Either he is town and im confirmed town, or he is dead scum and hp has at least a confirmed ability. I would back that lynch but I think its more likely hp is also scum. His role just makes so little sense as it deviates from almost every standard roles have with no other role does.

[Scott Brosius]

I'm still suspicious of Toomai for wagon movement.

He hops on every wagon, EXCEPT the lynching wagon of scum

. I was cautious about the acfan claim D1 since there was no counterclaim, but the amendment was ridiculous combined with my top scumread conveniently jumping off the wagon when it was gaining steam.

Oh really?

I'm interested in seeing you make that case.

(Because it isn't true.)

Certainly reason enough for me to believe there is a connection. However, when I'm being accused of being roleblocked when I have no powers, I am 100% sure hp is lying. How is this scum desperation? One player I have serious scum reads on, another is completely lying about their actions...who would you go with?

That doesn't make any sense. All HP did was roleblock you. Hell HP could theoretically be the mafia roleblocker and telling the truth. The fact that you may or may not have powers shouldn't make you suspicious of HP.

Okay I give.

Unvote

Not voting NC yet because there's still a few days; not voting SB yet because I'm not as certain about him.

Why does it matter if there's a few days left?

Eh I guess you're right. We do kind of need enough time for him to claim.

Vote: NicCage

[L-1]

You have me convinced. I felt there was going to be at least one scum in the set of not-common-posters and the evidence seems legit.

Vote: ac1983fan

Well I guess I'll go back to where I was then.

Vote: NicCage

That said, 1-Shot Doctor seems like a really weird claim to me. It's weak and unusual enough that it doesn't look like something that would be faked, but in the same way it's far easier to explain why he's not being killed (since if the claim is true the Mafia probably would like to keep him around for a while to keep suspicion high, as opposed to a full Doctor claim which would make everyone expect instant death).

Wagon on NC, jumps off, jumps back on after question about it, jumps off after claim when acfan wagon gets going, jumps back on NC after claim and acfan wagon loses steam. Also voiced opinions of supporting basically any wagon that had potential.

Jumps on acfan Day 2, and conveniently leaves the wagon as it gains steam, the first time he has done this all game, and acfan flipped red. Puts his vote safely on a player that nobody has discussed or expressed many scum reads about. This interaction with acfan jumping off that wagon at a convenient time is pretty damning to me.

wrt leaves, it's the whole package, the ridiculous claim, the convenient timing of the claim with a general consensus was him being a main lynch target today and the fact that even if he did rb me, to immediately assume that he stopped a NK is ridiculous.

With this knifesmith role, leaves assumes there is a doctor. So why did he come out guns blazing saying he caught me if he knows there is a feasible alternative explanation for the NK (scum shooting into doc protect). Coming out like that with that assumption is not town play.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

1. you have been here about a month? HP has been here since 2008. This site also has(or used to have) an award for most creative role claim, additionally I don't think I have ever seen a 4 shot joat in a mini normal before, and the fact there is a brand new role added into it makes it even less believable. The part of doctors carrying knives is something I have never heard of before either with the exception of that thread I linked.

2. I can do behavioral analysis on a bunch of players and say they should be lynched for their behavior, yourself included. I don't really agree with your behavioral analysis

3. I don't really think HP is mafia, I think he is probably SK and his claim from an SK perspective makes sense, especially if he has some sort of RB ability. If he was aware we had a doc, him assuming we had a NK because of his block and not the doc save makes no sense. If SB flips town he would just say "Oh I guess the doc stopped the kill, not me" With us having a doc and them saving the most likely person to be killed, I believe CD stopped the kill, not HP.

-J

[Toomai]

Jumps on acfan Day 2, and conveniently leaves the wagon as it gains steam, the first time he has done this all game, and acfan flipped red. Puts his vote safely on a player that nobody has discussed or expressed many scum reads about. This interaction with acfan jumping off that wagon at a convenient time is pretty damning to me.

Were I online at a better time that day I probably would have gotten back on the wagon after reading the goings-on. As it happened by the time I showed up he was already hammered.

Also voiced opinions of supporting basically any wagon that had potential.

More like "any wagon that I currently believe is on scum that I want to get lynched".

[hapahauli]

1. you have been here about a month? HP has been here since 2008. This site also has(or used to have) an award for most creative role claim, additionally I don't think I have ever seen a 4 shot joat in a mini normal before, and the fact there is a brand new role added into it makes it even less believable. The part of doctors carrying knives is something I have never heard of before either with the exception of that thread I linked.

2. I can do behavioral analysis on a bunch of players and say they should be lynched for their behavior, yourself included. I don't really agree with your behavioral analysis

3.

I don't really think HP is mafia, I think he is probably SK and his claim from an SK perspective makes sense, especially if he has some sort of RB ability.

If he was aware we had a doc, him assuming we had a NK because of his block and not the doc save makes no sense. If SB flips town he would just say "Oh I guess the doc stopped the kill, not me" With us having a doc and them saving the most likely person to be killed, I believe CD stopped the kill, not HP.

-J

And this is all I read. Why are we lynching the guy if we don't think he's mafia?

It's *possible* he's some kind of SK variant, but that's putting a lot of eggs into one basket. There are many 3rd party roles (some of which can be friendly to us) that we probably shouldn't lynch.

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

cause he IS scum. Mafia or SK, doesn't matter what he is actually but he is one of them. He's not town and that is all that matters.

-J

[Jake from Rainbowdash]

you talk about behavioral analysis, Hypothetical question

if Player A made a case to lynch player B but it never went through, and than the next day town was trying to lynch player B but Player A pushed hard to prevent the lynch of Player B, who just happens to flip scum and now is pushing hard to prevent the lynch of Player C, who has nothing on his side and has claimed a completely unbelievable role.

what would that behavior say to you?

[hapahauli]

Stupid question. Mafia is not a game of generalities.