Newbie 1382 (Game Over)

[jon_h61]

So you can all stop trying to say I'm terrible and go read my completely games, because this happens to me every time. In this case I happen to be in a game with a few people who are extremely rude and hurtful. This is no longer fun.

Peacoc, go have fun for awhile, then come back later, and remember it's just a game. The one time I was mislynched I said something close to this in frustration because the people I thought were Town weren't listening to me (I wish they had), they just kept saying "if you're not scum, scumhunt". Now I try to remember it's just a game. Cheerleading completed.

You do screw words and sentence format up occasionally. Just sayin

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 1.7

Xiao Long (3)

: notquitethere, Mr. Flay, rmpeacoc

rmpeacoc (1)

: Xiao Long

notquitethere (1)

: pitoli

JerryArr (1)

: Fear the poster

No Vote (3)

: JerryArr, jon_h61, lortaku

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

The deadline is Saturday, June 8, at 4:00 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2013-06-08 16:00:00).

[jon_h61]

Jerr, what did lortaku do to get off your scumreads? He simply hasn't been around.

I looked back and he didn't really do much to deserve being that high on my initial rankings. He hasn't posted here in awhile, but I'm guessing that's more forgetting about the game than lurking or something like that.

It's what halfway through the day? I'm getting the feeling you're just looking for something to be looking like you're scum hunting. I'm off to ISO you.

VOTE: Jerry

[pitoli]

@Mod: I think you might have messed up some of the votes.

Fixed. ~Zaicon

[lortaku]

Sorry about not replying guys, I have finals around the corner, so I've been overloaded with schoolwork. Trying to find the time to post and read up on the thread as often as possible. As of so far I was only able to skim through the thread, and I don't have many leads, except that I feel there is some sort of conflict between Xiao and rmpea, and the vote probably would boil down to one of them.

I don't have any scum reads, because I'm pretty new to this, and normally when I play I have an idea of my fellow players' natures. I don't know any of you, so it's kind of hard to understand your playstyles.
I'm thinking of VOTE: rmpeacoc
Because one of the most memorable games of forum mafia included a scum acting very offended by another player pressing them, and ended winning the game because everyone sided with them.

Not to say that you're faking it, nor do I mean any offense. It's just a gut feeling, I guess.

[pitoli]

If you're voting rmpeacoc for scum, then exactly what you're saying is that she's faking it.

[rmpeacoc]

A questions for all. Please answer as I think you might all actually agree with me and no one is saying anything.

Do you consider someone saying that they are town a 'claim'? How do you feel about this exchange between Xiao and I?


@Xiao please look back to what I quoted. It was EXTREMELY RUDE and offensive. None of this has anything to do with the bandwagon on me and everything to do with the words that you have said. Please don't make it about the bandwagon. I'm not frustrated because town thinks I'm scum, I'm pissed because of the words coming from you. If you honestly think that I don't understand what you are saying you don't say 'Is English your first language?' It comes of as extremely rude and there are other ways to go about finding out that sort of information.

Also I find it odd that Fear thinks I'm town so suddenly you do, too.

One more thing.... you say that you gave me post numbers as to where I was saying 'over and over again' that I was town, but you didn't, so please give me post numbers or quote it. I'm talking about somewhere that is NOT in discussion that I said I was town. If I was talking about the fact that I said I was town the first time then it doesn't count.

@jon I know what you mean here but I want to make it clear i'm not screwing up 'sentence format', I'm just not clearly getting things across. Don't make it sound like a grammar issue. Also I realize this is just a game but people need to stop BULLYING other people to get a reaction out of them. It's not okay. I clearly stated before that I was going to say something I didn't mean, but I'm not going to sit back and let shit like that happen to anyone, ESPECIALLY myself. It's easy when you are on the outside to say it's just a game, but look at what he said to me. Then he tries to say I was making things personal about my reasoning for voting him. He's still trying to defend himself like he did nothing wrong, but he did.

Words are hurtful, people.

@Jerry Can we get more SPECIFICS as to why you think I'm scum.

@lortaku If that's your reason for voting me you should really rethink it. Ask questions of others. Don't vote on a whim. Look at what Fear said about me. He has the right idea.

By the way I'm 95% certain Fear is town at this point. He went back and looked at my old games. Xiao 'claims' to have looked at them but is still voting me when you should see by reading those games that people always see me as scummy early in the game.

If I've really had that many grammatical errors, someone please point them out. If I've had ANY then they were typos. I write for a living. Everyone makes mistakes but really what I've said has nothing to do with grammar, it was a few mistakes that I made come across wrong.

*Note: I never said I was going to be gone until Saturday, I said I was going to take a break from this game. Clearly that hasn't happened. I had a good night tonight with friends so here I am. (I met an Olympic Gold Medalist and got to hold her metal!!!) I'll be at a conference tomorrow and Saturday though, not sure when I'll be around but I'll try to post.

Double-post deleted. ~Zaicon

[Mr. Flay]

Do you consider someone saying that they are town a 'claim'?

Of course not. Totally null tell.

[Mr. Flay]

@Mr. Flay - Thank you for linking that. I'm not sure what I'm taking from it yet other than Fear was using a lot of please and thank yous which I'm not seeing in this game. More politeness, if you will... interesting for sure.

Not really the point. Just pointing out that bragging and bossing are personality-not-tell for Fear apparently.

Besides the "bravery against the IC" thing, what else makes you think he's Town? Just curious/getting you nailed down. I'll respond to your questions once you've said more.

His bravery and general 'don't give a fuck' attitude are something I am not used to seeing from scum. He draws attention to himself instead of dodging it and that seems townie to me. He absolutely isn't afraid of the lynch since he hasn't changed his posting style now he is at L-1 and clearly plays the game his way. That suggests to me someone without a team to look out for.

Eh. Maybe I'm showing my age, but I've seen newbies of both alignments do that. It's pretty common when a scumbag thinks s/he's in a good position, i.e. doesn't actually believe the wagon will turn into a lynch for some reason. Sometimes that means the partner is on the wagon but can climb off, sometimes that means the partner is doing something else entirely distracting. Right now (page 5) Xiao is definitely posting in a manner more confident than I would expect for a Town newbie. Too calm and collected, if you get what I mean?

Also I am NOT a gut voter, but I wanted to get that reaction out there so I didn't forget about it.

rmpea, you clearly do not understand how meta works.

On that we can agree.

His reasoning makes sense, but I'm a paranoid cunt on D1.

No you're not. You're a jerk and an insult fairy, but you're not paranoid. You're disengaged and calm, and your play is just cute enough to give Fear plausible reasons to think you're town. I don't think you're half the newbie you present yourself as.

rmpeacoc is fine; leaning Town for me (even before the Jerry-not-vote on page 7). The initial gap of posting has been overcome by rapidfire posting without caution or calculation, which is why Fear/Xiao are jumping on it (edit: until recently). Contrast with Fear's "I hope to play with enough bluster as Town to get away with it as Scum". And Xiao saying that she as much as knows rmpeacoc is Town, but wants the lynch anyway. And a D2 Town lynch would be 'bad'.

As for my activity: I said everyone should post at least once a day. I didn't say I could post much more often than that; I have a job, a church, a wife, etc. I looked this morning and there were no new posts, and I can read but not post (well not the way I want for Mafia games) from my phone during the day.

[Xiao Long]

@Xiao please look back to what I quoted. It was EXTREMELY RUDE and offensive. None of this has anything to do with the bandwagon on me and everything to do with the words that you have said.

Get over it, then. I haven't been that rude to you, so quit whining.

If you honestly think that I don't understand what you are saying you don't say 'Is English your first language?' It comes of as extremely rude and there are other ways to go about finding out that sort of information.

No, you just read it as being rude. I was asking if English was your first language, plain and simple, quit reading more into it than there was. If you're trying to be emotional in an attempt to sway me, you might as well stop now. I don't care if your feelings are hurt. Especially not when I've done nothing to have your feelings hurt over. <.<

One more thing.... you say that you gave me post numbers as to where I was saying 'over and over again' that I was town, but you didn't, so please give me post numbers or quote it. I'm talking about somewhere that is NOT in discussion that I said I was town. If I was talking about the fact that I said I was town the first time then it doesn't count.

Discussions do count. That's all that this game is - discussions, why the hell wouldn't it count?

[Xiao Long]

His reasoning makes sense, but I'm a paranoid cunt on D1.

No you're not. You're a jerk and an insult fairy, but you're not paranoid. You're disengaged and calm, and your play is just cute enough to give Fear plausible reasons to think you're town. I don't think you're half the newbie you present yourself as.

Well, I was never presenting myself as a newbie. I am calm, but I'm still paranoid in the sense that I don't really trust anyone - especially not D1. And insult fairy and a jerk? How so? Because I'm not censoring myself and speaking bluntly? Either way, that's more of a personal issue you have with me, but does that make me scum?

And Xiao saying that she as much as knows rmpeacoc is Town, but wants the lynch anyway. And a D2 Town lynch would be 'bad'.

Come now, don't twist my words, and don't call me a she. I never said that I knew rmp was town. I said even if she is town, which I'm still not sold on, I'd rather her be first lynch. And yeah, D2 town lynch would be much worse than a D1 town lynch, don't even act like that's not the case. I've just come from a game where both days were town lynches and it made town's job a LOT harder than it needed to be.

As for my activity: I said everyone should post at least once a day. I didn't say I could post much more often than that; I have a job, a church, a wife, etc. I looked this morning and there were no new posts, and I can read but not post (well not the way I want for Mafia games) from my phone during the day.

You were the one that said sporadic activity should be accompanied by posts with lots of content to justify the inactivity. Why then is this all that you give us?

[rmpeacoc]

because if I'm defending what I originally said in a discussion than I'm not sitting around trying to convince you that I'm town. I'm not merely STATING that I'm town 'over and over again' as you put it.

I'm not being emotional to 'sway' anyone. You claim that you've read my previous games. That's not a strategy.

You're rude and your words were uncalled for. There is never a time when you need to paint someone as being a complete idiot, or make someone feel bad about themselves. Look at Fear. He knows how to be a dick without attacking anyone.

You, on the other hand, say that I fucked town over in my other games. You basically make it look like I'm a terrible mafia player. I just have a different style than you do, and clearly you don't get that.

My point is that you don't need to attack me or PUT ME DOWN in order to get a read or a reaction, or just in general. There is a way to get your information without making someone feel bad.

@Flay Thank you. At least someone can see where I'm coming from.

[Xiao Long]

Again, get over it, if you felt like I was putting you down or trying to paint you as a complete idiot, then that's your problem. Yes, I said you fucked over town before. Instead of getting upset about it, figure out what you're doing wrong and fix it. It's also laughable how you come at me like this when you spent the first half of the game going, "No, you just suck at mafia, and you're a noob. You probably fail all the time as town." Difference between me and you? I don't care.

[rmpeacoc]

Except I didn't say that. Please don't quote me unless you're actually quotting me. I stated that the way you are so AGAINST town is terrible and that if you have mafia experience you haven't learned from it. I never said you suck. Also I said I thought you were trying to play the noob card. There's nothing wrong with calling a noob a noob. I never insulted you.

[Xiao Long]

Don't play dumb, everyone knows that calling someone a noob is an insult.

[Xiao Long]

Regardless, this is irrelevant to the actual game, are we done?

[Mr. Flay]

Why then is this all that you give us?

Don't confuse not posting like Fear for not posting content. For that, you'll want to look at lortaku or the Hypotheticals.

Also, your claim that you're not insulting, but that noob is an insult, is hilarious, in a way. You're both making this harder than it has to be.

[rmpeacoc]

We're done if you're done insulting me. I'd appreciate a bit more respect in the future. Not respect as in I'm better than you, respect as in your a person and I'm a person... we should respect each other as adults.

For the record English is my first language and I have a college education.

Noob is a term for someone who is new to the game. The end,

[Xiao Long]

Why then is this all that you give us?

Don't confuse not posting like Fear for not posting content. For that, you'll want to look at lortaku or the Hypotheticals.

Fair enough.

Noob is a term for someone who is new to the game. The end,

No, that would be newbie. Noob is a term for someone who's a fucking idiot and sucks at something.

[Mr. Flay]

Fear/Xiao analysis: Game starts on 25th. Fear comes in aggressive and leaderly, Xiao immediately makes excuses for not posting. Despite the claim that HE_(sorry) won't remember to post, he's close behind Fear overall for posting leader: 38/31 as of this post, I believe.

I vote Xiao for posting without content or opinion. Fear jumps to Xiao's defense, saying "I don't think newbie scum would do that". Interestingly Xiao doesn't correct Fear on the 'newbie' card despite today's offense - in fact Xiao doesn't really talk to Fear at all. No thanks, no suspicion at the defense... instead we get a very neutral

"You're a weird dude, Fear. I suppose you'll make this game interesting, though."

Fear's next several posts to Xiao are borderline coaching. "Show me how you think" Post moar, basically. Granted Town!Fear would probably say the same thing here, but he takes a more confrontational pose with others of minimal content than Xiao (lortaku, rmpeacoc, pitoli, nqt).

Post 55, Xiao reiterates the null read on Fear. Xiao isn't this wishy-washy on anybody else, or if they are, they're just not saying anything about them.

Post 83 on the other hand, Xiao seems to be saying that Fear might be calling him (Xiao) Town because he (Fear) is scum. Very confusing sentence, but the only other way to read it is that Xiao is saying that Xiao's defiance is a scum tactic, and I'm not willing to buy that.


...which catches us up to where my gut went bonkers. Questions?

I really hope our lesser posters get to posting soon. We're almost halfway through Day One.

[Xiao Long]

Fear/Xiao analysis: Game starts on 25th. Fear comes in aggressive and leaderly, Xiao immediately makes excuses for not posting. Despite the claim that HE_(sorry) won't remember to post, he's close behind Fear overall for posting leader: 38/31 as of this post, I believe.

Which is a little absurd. I wasn't here at all yesterday and fucking hardly anyone posted. (Today I was stuck at home playing Call of Duty all day, so more time to post. =P )
We could use with an increase in activity from the people who aren't posting much at all.

I vote Xiao for posting without content or opinion. Fear jumps to Xiao's defense, saying "I don't think newbie scum would do that". Interestingly Xiao doesn't correct Fear on the 'newbie' card despite today's offense - in fact Xiao doesn't really talk to Fear at all. No thanks, no suspicion at the defense... instead we get a very neutral

"You're a weird dude, Fear. I suppose you'll make this game interesting, though."

Fear's next several posts to Xiao are borderline coaching. "Show me how you think" Post moar, basically. Granted Town!Fear would probably say the same thing here, but he takes a more confrontational pose with others of minimal content than Xiao (lortaku, rmpeacoc, pitoli, nqt).

This to me is the only thing that could imply me and Fear are scum together. Aside from Fear not being confrontational towards me, what else is truly scummy about me/him.

Post 83 on the other hand, Xiao seems to be saying that Fear might be calling him (Xiao) Town because he (Fear) is scum. Very confusing sentence, but the only other way to read it is that Xiao is saying that Xiao's defiance is a scum tactic, and I'm not willing to buy that.

I ad saying that my defiance is a scum tactic? Wait, what? You've lost me.

[Xiao Long]

I am* saying that....
Typo xP

[pitoli]

Okay rmpeacoc looks more towny to me now based on her rage and the amount of people who trickled in on 'suspecting' her in a short period of time (Jerry, lortaku, looking at you). That developed a little too quickly for me to think it was a scum wagon.

VOTE: lortaku. I know you said you're taking finals but I think you deserve some added pressure.

[pitoli]

@Flay:

do you usually try to pin the team on Day 1? I've been told not to do that, on occasion.

[notquitethere]

Fear

that one is a bit dull though, no? It has only one good response since counterclaiming a townie shows mafia where to night hit. If you want to have fun with hypotheticals give me something where there is actually information which would be useful in making the decision.

The point was rather to sense the general level of understanding the player has in the game, and to see whether they make any obvious mistakes in simple scenarios.

Here is a hypothetical for you: you roll scum in a newbie game and want to appear active without actually scumhunting. How do you do that? (hint: you do that by asking a bunch of hypothetical questions and not looking for scum).

The number one priority of any player, town or scum, is to hunt for scum. Only, the scum just have to go through the motions. Getting an understanding of other players is a great start to scumhunting, and as the game progresses and we have more concrete matters to dicuss, rest assured I will discuss them. As it stands there have been no final lynch votes and no flips, so there is little of substance to talk about.

I'm the only player who isn't content with this lynch so either I am scum with Xiao or Xiao is town.

Not true. I could very well believe you being scum and setting up a situation here where you can say 'I told you so!' after town is lynched-- a classic scum tactic. That said, you've since laid off the lynch and I give you town points for that.

Peacock

notquitethere it would be helpful, if you have any... to see some meta where you were town and asked hypotheticals in the game. Honestly I see 100% where you are coming from but I think meta could put this argument to rest.

Unfortunately, this is my first game on this site. Questions about play-style at the beginning of a game is the norm where I usually play (Bay12).

That being said, I do think it's time you out some reads. Specifically I'd like to hear what some people think about the exchange between myself and Xiao.

I think Xiao is behaving rude and uncooperatively, and is ballooning perfectly innocent things you've said into issues which simply aren't there. Reads at the bottom of the post.

Jerry

Your reticence to vote is starting to smack of scummish reticence to commit. Remember what I said-- the lynch is town's weapon to hunt scum.

pitoli

,

lortaku

You probably missed this innocently: could you answer the question in #106?

--------------------------

Reads

from most town to least town

jon_h61
+ Proactive poster, calls out poor use of FOS

rmpeacoc
+ Reasonable responses to questions, sees through Xiao's nonsense, seemed genuinely offended
- Overreacts somewhat

pitoli
+ Tries to do something constructive with her vote, asks if she's missed anyone's questions
- Hasn't answered my question to her

Mr. Flay
+ Reasonable responses
- Hard to read right now through the haze of IC authoritativeness

JerryArr
+ Reasonable responses to questions
- In favour of a day one no lynch. Appears to reticent to use his vote. Weak vote on peacock.

Fear the poster
+ Capable of reason. Calls out others for weak votes
- Over-defensive of Xiao. Offers 'if this is the case then I must tbe town' reasoning

lortaku
- Lurker. Minimal content, hasn't answered question

Xiao Long
- Beligerent, uncooperative, refuses to engage with simplest of questions, plays Call of Duty, said he'd be willing to lynch peacock even if she's town