Newbie 1365 - Vantasmagoria of Flower View (Game Over)

[Tierce]

Votecount 4.6

(2)

MontyWhittaker

- Thor665, Ms Marangal
(1)

Regfan

- MontyWhittaker

(2)

Not voting

- awestfie,

(Ms Marangal,)

Regfan

With 5 alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch.
The deadline is June 7 at 10:20 AM PDT. Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2013-06-07 10:20:00)

[Regfan]

I'll give Monty about another day to return, if he hasn't by then I'll hammer; it's not worth having Tierce find a replacement.

I would say his posting regularity and content is the prime vibe. Town is in a *very* strong position right now, and he's acting like this game is pointless. So...either he's town who literally doesn't give a fig if he wins...or, y'know, scum feeling defeated. Derp. Guess which I think?

So, what are the vibes you're getting?

I wouldn't say he's acting like this game is "pointless" at all - well, not when you had made your vote on him, his inactivity is a very recent thing and that's associated with him being V/LA so I don't really see your reasoning at all. I've gone into the vibes I got from him a lot (Probably 4-5 times?), you should have read it somewhere by now; interaction-wise fitting, push on me today looking like a desperate attempt to get a mslynch while ignoring a lot that happened, the turn-around looking like an appeasement to Awestfie when he saw she wouldn't lynch me, push on Irish at the start of the new day looking like a buss while ignoring his prior day reads ect.

Why? I have a history of botched night actions last I checked.

..I don't remember you botching up night actions at all. Got a link for me?

[Thor665]

1. Defeatist then, if you don't like the word pointless. I don't see the issue you're even gunning at there. And if you think he looks like he's playing the game to win in his last burst of activity we do have an issue with how we're defining his play.

2. If you think his push on you is 'desperate' why do you not think a scum him would simply push on me? I don't get how that's a scumtell, it looked kinda townish to me, frankly, but his later play convinced me I was wrong.

3. Why in the universe do you need a link? Do you think I'm lying about that?

[Thor665]

I'd really like an answer to #3.

[Regfan]

I'll give you #1. Though with #2 I think his push on me and vote in Post 965 was him attempting to use partial interactions (One way interactions of Commando->Irish and not Irish->Commando) because he thought that reasoning would best get him a mslynch; with you he didn't have one-way interactions he could manipulate into attempting to read like a scum-tell) and I think he clung onto this as long as possible despite me constantly telling him to go and read the interactions the other way. I also think his "Turn-around" of opinions when he saw Awestfie wasn't going to lynch me to saying you're scum but keeping a vote on me is massively ungenuine.

And with #3, I want to see the context of you 'botching up night-actions' and see if they're at all similar to this game.

[Thor665]

So, as regards #3, what are you expecting to find exactly?

Reg - I am sorta clearing Thor because I think Monty would be more likely to forget to submit an action.
Thor - I forget actions quite a bit.
Reg - Ah-ha! Show me those actions.
Thor - Whu?
Reg - Yes, because I need to analyze them. Because, if you're town then the situations won't be as likely similar, and if you're scum the situations will...or something. Kindly ignore that my previous thought was simply based off the concept that you would be unlikely to do something, and had nothing to do with the manner of how you may or may not forget something, and also that I'm not even asking what sort of actions you forgot, or really anything specific, but instead the hyper generic 'links' request.

I really don't follow - I mean, how many different 'situations' of botched night actions are there? You kind of either submit them or you don't, and if you don't and it's a 'botch' then it's because you forgot to submit them. I mean...how else does that play out...?

[Thor665]

Unvote

[Thor665]

I mean, I guess really what I'm feeling here is that all of this 'scumhunting' you're doing right now is massively faked.

[Regfan]

I'm not following nearly anything of what you said in that post... There are plenty of different 'situations' of botched night actions, mainly the things I want to look at is if you were online and posting elsewhere when you botched actions in the past and if it was in situations where you were solo-scum or was it due to expecting a partner to submit them ect.

[Thor665]

And if I'm scum your presumption is I would show anything that could suggest that this is something I'd do as scum?
Heck, I could show a couple of instances of me doing it as town and claim I've never forgotten any as scum - I could show only instances where I've been posting heavily at the time or only ones where my showing was spotty.

Which then simply begs the question, why ask me at all and not do the research yourself?
Arguably it would be the only way to get a legit answer, right?

[Thor665]

And this is from a guy who decided that 'Thor doesn't do this' when Thor does do this...which almost makes me wonder if that was going to be your 'bombshell' revelation after a townflip from Monty.

[Regfan]

There's no way to research every single one of your games to find where you botched night actions and honestly with a final coming up in two days I don't have time to devote 5-6 hours of hunting when simply asking for a link is much simpler. And sure, you could provide links to create a certain outlook but literally

any

information that you give me would be more than I currently have about the history of you forgetting actions since I don't remember you doing it at all.

[Thor665]

So you agree that it was a scumhunting question with questionable gain, at best, and that it makes sense for me to question its scumhunting worth?

[Regfan]

No? While it's not going to give me 100% information it still gives me more than I currently have and I can assess it's complete relevance when I actually get the links.

(And I still want the links)

[Thor665]

No links for you (though, hint, I have done it as town, scum, and a variety of different PRs, and also during periods of high and low activity).

Why should I accept any of this as valid scumhunting? Just the generic 'more info betta!' Really? You'd researched Monty to find something that justified him forgetting to submit a night action...you really want me to believe you had *no idea at all, really, swearz!' that I have a history of forgetting night actions? I mean, that doesn't look a little off to you?

[Regfan]

I'll do one of your little narrations for you:

Reg - Montys more likely to miss a night kill than Thor given that I found a QT of Montys as scum where he was fairly inactive.
Thor - I've botched night actions before.
Reg - Can I see them?
Thor - You're fake scumhunting!!

[Regfan]

Yes, Monty has 2 completed games so getting meta and history on him is easy and quick. You have 100's of completed games. Not something I have time to sift through.

[Thor665]

Though, again, where does this 'can I see them?' gak even enter into play. Your ruddy case is half based around him forgetting stuff, and me not, and now I'm pointing out that I forget play stuff too and your answer isn't 'well, that's a minor point' or maybe 'have you ever done so as scum...with a kill?' or anything else. No, it's the generic knee-jerk fake response of 'link?' as in 'look at me, so town, gonna do the research and stuffz!' And also 'Thor, as scumz, will totally give me anything valid to call him scumz off of from his 100s+1 games!'

I mean, if you agree I have lot of games, and you agree that I'm not lying about forgetting night actions, and you think I'm scum choosing to bring up that I forget night actions...you think, what, I couldn't just show you 2-3 options that would help hint that I'm town in this game?

Is that what you're saying scumThor wouldn't be able to do?

Because otherwise your request makes little sense to me.

[Tierce]

Searching for a replacement for MontyWhittaker.

[Regfan]

Why I think Monty is mafia isn't based solely around him being more likely to forget a kill than you - there's a lot to it. That still doesn't mean that I don't want to see the links to the games where you're 'forgotten night-actions' and asking "Was it as scum with a kill" is literally the same asking for the links (How you're attempting to differentiate them is something I'll never comprehend). And yes; I do think you admitting that you've forgotten things in the past blatantly when had you not said it I'd have never known is townish but looking at the links and the situations in the past will make me feel a lot more at ease.

End of story is I really really don't want this to go to a 3 way lylo (Despite playing 50 or so games at the site I've only been in a 3 way lylo 1 time as town and was mylnched in it and it's really not something I ever want to see repeated) and that means getting absolutely all the information I can today.

[Regfan]

And fuck. I don't want someone to have to replace in for 30 minutes of play before we lynch them.

[Thor665]

and asking "Was it as scum with a kill" is literally the same asking for the links (How you're attempting to differentiate them is something I'll never comprehend).

Because it's the drive of the question.

If I say 'I breadcrumb all the time' in a situation where I've breadcrumbed.
You could say 'links?'
Or you could say 'Do you breadcrumb when scum?'

One is a passive comment, made to look good. The other is an aggressive comment, made to force an answer with an actual scumhunting point.
That's why I'm drawng the distinction.
It all feels fake and worked up.

Also, I really do feel like you've made a rather big deal of the 'forgetting' aspect of your case.
Functionally - you opened the day with that. It's a major part of your push, and I think you intended it to be exactly that.

[Regfan]

If you need an example that I either prefer to find the information myself or ask for links there's Nekokos cop claim earlier (I found the QT for one game and asked for the other where by your logic I could just ask "Do you breadcrumb or discuss it as mafia") - I find links and actual context from them better than a "Yes" or "No" answer from a player. And I do think the lack of kill is a factor; it's not something I've seen in any of my games.

Anyway sadly your obstinance here reads town and I'm pretty sure he fits perfectly as scum so there's no point having a newer player replace in to get lynched so:

Vote: Monty

[Tierce]

Fropome replaces MontyWhittaker.

[Ms Marangal]

lol, poor Fropome