Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[Ms Marangal]

Swords, why are you ignoring me again? Stop trying to get out of convo with me

[sword_of_omens]

give me a frickin' moment to respond...
i'm at work..as you well know...
how can i be ignoring you if you don't give me more than a minute to reposnd....

[sword_of_omens]

no, and why ignore the rest of my post?

Because you are scum..you get overly cocky as scum and you're doing it here...
do you want me to touch on everything? Fine.

and despite me wanting my buddies around, I never outright defend them, nor have I ever called my buddies town. I havn't even called Skrew town and I bussed what'shisface

Yes, but soft defend…that’s what you are doing here…and yes you did it with Skrew..
As far as bussing whatsisface..you were told to bus him in the scum QT..

Your response to me being scummier in 1v1 reasoning is a cop-out:

Swords, I initially liked your reason because it was the most detailed on of those on the Milkshake wagon and I had glazed through it. there are nearly 2 pages of between those two posts you have stated and a few people have made good points on you as well, which caused me to reconsider. That, and I had taken a closer look at that post and realized it wasn't as good as I had originally thought

Like i said previously in #614...you thought i was good until people gave me heat, and then you tried to back-track like your hair was on fire...

and no, Thad didn't give reasonings in thread but looking at what happened when he stated that he would be willing to vote you gave me the impression that something you did made you look scummier, and it was around the time I started feeling more certain that you were scum

So “something” i did must have made me look scummier to ThAd..and you agree with that reasoning...yet you don’t know what that “something” is...ok.

as for the 1v1, I feel like you chose the easiest attack of your three "suspects"

Yeh...considering i had more on Ghost, why wouldn’t i go after him? You were sidelining and as i said, i need you to post more to get a read on you because you DO get a lot more cocky as scum, and ThAd was questionable with not a lot to go on...

[Cephrir]

Vote Count 1.17

ThAdmiral 5

(Belisarius, Amrun, milkshake, Selkies, Demon)

sword_of_omens 4

(Iecerint, Nero Cain, Ghostlin, GoodCop_BadCop)

milkshake 3

(ThAdmiral, MattP, Ms Marangal)

Ms Marangal 1

(sword_of_omens)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is Monday, June 3rd, at 9 PM EST. This is in (expired on 2013-06-03 21:00:00).

[Selkies]

UNVOTE: ThAdmiral

Will have to reread some, but I don't think MsM and ThAdmiral are scum buddies. One of them could be scum.

That whole thing MsM brought up about the fake pgo claim by a macho innocent child and comparing it to this situation was a huge reach.

Something odd going on here.

- f

[Ms Marangal]

no, and why ignore the rest of my post?

Because you are scum..you get overly cocky as scum and you're doing it here...
do you want me to touch on everything? Fine.

No, I'm not and no, I don't

and despite me wanting my buddies around, I never outright defend them, nor have I ever called my buddies town. I havn't even called Skrew town and I bussed what'shisface

Yes, but soft defend…that’s what you are doing here…and yes you did it with Skrew..
As far as bussing whatsisface..you were told to bus him in the scum QT..

Yes, but I was fency on Skrew, I specifically stated that we shouldn't have voted him until he stated something, or until he got replaced, and he eventually did.

Here, I'm more than certain that Thad is town...

Your response to me being scummier in 1v1 reasoning is a cop-out:

???

Swords, I initially liked your reason because it was the most detailed on of those on the Milkshake wagon and I had glazed through it. there are nearly 2 pages of between those two posts you have stated and a few people have made good points on you as well, which caused me to reconsider. That, and I had taken a closer look at that post and realized it wasn't as good as I had originally thought

Like i said previously in #614...you thought i was good until people gave me heat, and then you tried to back-track like your hair was on fire...

and?

and no, Thad didn't give reasonings in thread but looking at what happened when he stated that he would be willing to vote you gave me the impression that something you did made you look scummier, and it was around the time I started feeling more certain that you were scum

So “something” i did must have made me look scummier to ThAd..and you agree with that reasoning...yet you don’t know what that “something” is...ok.

Thad stated that he would be ok with jumping on you wagon when you started attacking Ghost.

as for the 1v1, I feel like you chose the easiest attack of your three "suspects"

Yeh...considering i had more on Ghost, why wouldn’t i go after him? You were sidelining and as i said, i need you to post more to get a read on you because you DO get a lot more cocky as scum, and ThAd was questionable with not a lot to go on...

If you needed me to post more, why didn't you pressure me? that's what I want to know. You stated that you needed more from me, but you were content with letting me go where, in the past you didn't even let me do such a thing IIRC.

you asked me one question, and that was the reasoning behind my sudden switch RE you

I was, and still am thinking that Thad questioned your push on Ghost while leaving him alone. you had him as weak scum but you didn't question him. you had him as scum, but you placed your vote on Ghost over him when he was closer to lynch.

What ran through my mind at the time was you didn't want to be the 3/4 vote because the 3/4 on a wagon is a well known scum-tell that you didn't want to be caught doing so, instead you opted for being a wagon leader. on Ghost

You also havn't engaged until someone started to engage you first, before you would start the battle though Ghost had to attack you first.

you had an good initial start point, though when he replied, you gave him

fine by me you if you want to be a little shit about it...

you ain't town cause if you were and you read your shit you'd know what you did..


walker my ass...

confirm vote: Ghost

This...

which, to me looks like you didn't know how to make a good comeback, town-swords almost always has a good reasoning behind his rebuttals, but instead you gave him this...


Pedit: no, because Thad is town and if he's hiding his the specifics of his role, he's probs has a reason behind doing it. It was the first thing that came to mind RE odd stuff that isn't scum-motivated

[Ms Marangal]

Wait...

Dream-walker...

now I'm even more confused on the thing between you and Ghost, the two of you are walkers and I'm pretty sure all the walkers are town, so what were you trying to say swords?

[Nero Cain]

I like Milk paring of a Beli/Thad team but her dumb push to get me to vote for Matt is hard to ignore.

You said you like the pairing of Beli/ThAd, yet you didn't put Belis in your scum pot?
Are you saying you only think Belis is scum if ThAd flips scum?

*I* personally like Belli as town but I can completely understand how he could be read as scum. Right now I think Amrun has slipped sk or she could be scum gambiting. Thad looks scummy and there's better options for a third scummer than Belli me thinks.

F, why did you think I was scummy for suggesting connections but Milk is not scummy for the same thing?

[Selkies]

Nero, I started a post about milk earlier today but had to leave the keyboard for a while and when I came back to it, I decided that I was being assholish. Nearly every one of Milk's posts makes me long for browser-breaking facepalm images. I read those posts as either terrible town or town from such a different mafia culture that I just don't get it. Reminds me of some players on a site where the mafia games have a distinct drunken renfaire feel.

You on the other hand, I get a narrative control vibe that usually strikes me as scummy in other players' games until/unless I learn that they do it as town. Your pushing connections was part of that vibe. I've basically read you as scum by default due to that aspect of your play.

Anyway, I've done a hard reset on you, and I'll see where my read goes from here.

Are you still liking the SoO wagon? I'm really not feeling it, and I feel like of the two, MsM has looked worse over the last couple of pages worth of their back and forth.

[ThAdmiral]

Just a note for everyone: I know that self-meta is useless and all... but to my knowledge I have never claimed a pr as scum before. I mean I probably have but I can't remember doing it. In any case it would be very rare if ever. I certainly have never soft-claimed pr as scum.

Ugh, I'm ever so slightly starting to suspect extremely obnoxious town for ThAdmiral, but come on.

Sadly it is true. I like to think I'm not that obnoxious normally, but I'm not playing very well in this game so I guess I'm settling for being a dickhead.

Keep talking MsM...looks like I might have been right about you after all…

Between the three main wagon, I don't think I can get on the Thad wagon. I don't understand the Premise behind that one at all, he hasn't done anything to standoutish to me

and I think I'm thinking the same thing he is RE Omens

Which is what exactly?

I still don't get the soo wagon. If it's a choice between him and beli I'm voting beli.
Is there any chance of getting the milk wagon going again? Can't for the life of me understand how people are townreading him

I'd be willing to get on sword of omens now tbh

Cause he doesn’t really say why…

While this may look incriminating taken out of context it is pretty clear in my second post that I was referring to the post directly above me, a post by ghostlin talking about how you were being wishy-washy. Here's a link to it.

[sword_of_omens]

Wait...

Dream-walker...

now I'm even more confused on the thing between you and Ghost, the two of you are walkers and I'm pretty sure all the walkers are town, so what were you trying to say swords?

yeh...I think you are being deliberately dense here...
I said it the way I did for a reason...
There are dangerous beings that walk Tel' aran' rhiod..
Moghedien being one of them... other Forsaken...and not to mention good ol' Luc, The Slayer...

[Ms Marangal]

I know nothing of the series Swords

[Ms Marangal]

And saying that I'm playing stupid because I assumed that everyone who dream-walks is town is a pretty shitty to say

[Ghostlin]

And saying that I'm playing stupid because I assumed that everyone who dream-walks is town is a pretty shitty to say

It's OK, he's using crap setup speculation for this. I only managed to get Lord to Chaos before I nearly died of fucking boredom.

You should totally give it another try. I stopped reading at Lord of Chaos for 2 years, then picked it back up and it was so worth it. It starts getting better around book 8.

I can and will confirm that the 'dangers of the dream realm' (this IS NOT what it says in my role PM) is very narrowly described with no characters in my role PM.

[Nero Cain]

Are you still liking the SoO wagon?

I don't know. I haven't decided yet. One of Thad/SOO/Milk should get lynched today. Kinda want to kill Amrun but I don't think I'll get any support and I'd want to hear from her first.

SOO, what are your reads on Milk and Thad?

[milkshake]

For ThAdmiral, I still think he might be scum. I didn't like his soft PR claim. But I didn't expect him to agree with me when I said he might be obnoxious town, hah. Sorry about that.

I think that one of Sword_Of_Omens, Ms Marangal, ThAdmiral, and myself will get lynched today. We need to decide soon, too.

As for Ms Marangal... I really didn't like her reaction to ThAdmiral wagon. And all the self-meta about being smart scum... I once read someone say that if you are scum you should self meta and claim early to avoid being lynched.

I am still unclear about Sword_Of_Omens.

I can actually see an Amrun scum read. He's a good player, I hear, and some of what he has been doing could be interpreted as a good scum player trying to confirm himself and lead the town. SK is also a decent read.

By the way, this is off topic, but I do want to hear why Selkies thinks my playstyle is bad. I'm calling for the use of basic town strategy and logic and also for ignoring pointless namecalling in favor of reads that actually get to someone's alignment.

I'm leaving my vote on ThAdmiral for now. I want to get to L-1 on... anyone vaguely scummy really. We can't make any progress otherwise. I'd also be willing to vote Ms Marangal.

[ThAdmiral]

I'm not going to fullclaim, so either lynch me or don't. Getting me to L-1 will be pointless.

[Ms Marangal]

I'm not going to fullclaim, so either lynch me or don't. Getting me to L-1 will be pointless.

How the fuck is this thing Scum? like, seriously what will ScumThad gain from being so stubborn RE claiming?

Why would scum have wonder why people aren't voting for them when that person thinks they are scummy?

Why would scum do anything Thad has done the entire game? I really don't get it

For ThAdmiral, I still think he might be scum. I didn't like his soft PR claim. But I didn't expect him to agree with me when I said he might be obnoxious town, hah. Sorry about that.

I think that one of Sword_Of_Omens, Ms Marangal, ThAdmiral, and myself will get lynched today. We need to decide soon, too.

As for Ms Marangal... I really didn't like her reaction to ThAdmiral wagon. And all the self-meta about being smart scum... I once read someone say that if you are scum you should self meta and claim early to avoid being lynched.

I am still unclear about Sword_Of_Omens.

I can actually see an Amrun scum read. He's a good player, I hear, and some of what he has been doing could be interpreted as a good scum player trying to confirm himself and lead the town. SK is also a decent read.

By the way, this is off topic, but I do want to hear why Selkies thinks my playstyle is bad. I'm calling for the use of basic town strategy and logic and also for ignoring pointless namecalling in favor of reads that actually get to someone's alignment.

I'm leaving my vote on ThAdmiral for now. I want to get to L-1 on... anyone vaguely scummy really. We can't make any progress otherwise. I'd also be willing to vote Ms Marangal.

This is just about the only thing that I have seen all game that could indicate that you are, infact town, and there is still some hint of anti-town attitude hidden in here. Everything else you have written were either null or scum leaning, though mostly null.

You have had most of the major pushers of your wagon as scum (I think) at some point, hell your first scum-pick is the person who has been pushing you all game

and you kinda appease your other push

and then, your other scum read is the person who calls you out for role-fishing, as if role-fishing is a pro-town move

Between you, Thad, and Swords I think you're the best option, despite my previous read on Swords Him being a dream-walker makes me think that he's probably town but I still don't get his what his beef with Ghost is

I also cannot see scum pointing out that all dream-walkers might not be town and pointing out the dangers that can be found in dream space

[Ghostlin]

but I still don't get his what his beef with Ghost is

Currently I believe it's because he's considered my poorly executed bread crumbs scummy, and does not believe that Town would not use obvious breadcrumbs, that I used the crumbs as an elaborate lure to try to draw out the dream walking PRs.

I would like the Town to note that no other PRs were drawn out except for SOO's, which he soft claimed in thread while he was accusing me of role fishing.

In other words, he responded to someone who he thought was a fucking role fisher by giving the role fisher the information they were supposedly looking for.

This is either insane troll logic or scum logic to try to get you all to lynch me today.

[Ghostlin]

I'm not going to fullclaim, so either lynch me or don't. Getting me to L-1 will be pointless.

This tends to be a Town reaction. I'd rather not lynch Ad today.

[Selkies]

By the way, this is off topic, but I do want to hear why Selkies thinks my playstyle is bad. I'm calling for the use of basic town strategy and logic and also for ignoring pointless namecalling in favor of reads that actually get to someone's alignment.

In a game, there are things that town players should think about, and that should motivate their behaviors - what they do and say, but that they usually don't say out loud. You seem to lack that filter.

Ask me again postgame and we can talk about it in more detail if you wish.

- f

[Belisarius]

I know nothing of the series Swords

Then upon what were you basing your supposition that all dreamwalkers are town? There is really no reason to think this.

Discounting flavour as something that could influence how roles work: Masons are modconfirmed to each other in their role PMs, so I'm thinking dreamwalkers are more like neighbourisers, and the one time I played with a neighbouriser, he neigbourised scum.

Counting flavour: Does anyone think "the dangers of the dream realm" could refer to anything other than its inhabitants? The Forsaken were dreamwalkers. It stands to reason that scum could easily have access to the dream.

Swords is

so

not scum.

[Nero Cain]

Milk, do agree with the "don't lynch pr claims on day 1"?

My pm says nothing about dream walkers, the dream realm etc.

Deleted double post since I caught it quickly.

[milkshake]

In a game, there are things that town players should think about, and that should motivate their behaviors - what they do and say, but that they usually don't say out loud. You seem to lack that filter.

Ask me again postgame and we can talk about it in more detail if you wish. - f

I will ask you about it postgame... I want to hear your opinion and learn more about the mafiascum.net meta. But no guarantees about my converting to mafiascumism. I'm still pretty down on the atmosphere here. Keeping things in the light is beneficial to town. This idea that you shouldn't talk about game mechanics doesn't make sense to me.

You have had most of the major pushers of your wagon as scum (I think) at some point, hell your first scum-pick is the person who has been pushing you all game

This is true and I am willing to admit that when accusing some people, I may have first acted under the influence of what is here called OMGUS. (Something which, incidentally, town is equally or more prone to than scum.) But for most of those people I have NOW already changed my read. I now think Ghostlin, GoodCop_BadCop, and Belisarius are town. Only ThAdmiral remains a scum read. And even him...

I'll go do another read on people to make sure I'm staying "fair and balanced."

Milk, do agree with the "don't lynch pr claims on day 1"?

No, not if they literally claim "PR." I have said it before and I'll say it again. Are those two letters a free ticket out of a lynch? The "don't lynch PR" rule is good, but only BECAUSE once a PR is claimed then they are easily verifiable through night actions. If they are verified to be lying, they are a free scum lynch, so delaying their lynch to verify them makes sense. But if they don't actually claim, just say "PR," then the entire thing doesn't apply.

[milkshake]

Also let me just draw attention to the fact that there are 38 hours until deadline.