Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[ThAdmiral]

@ThAd - do you have a 3rd party game of yours that you could link me to?

Check out my sig, bud.

[Nero Cain]

I just want Amrum to answer my question.

[Selkies]

Let's just put it this way... he may be scum, but his posting style is not an indication of this (ie noncommittal and distant).

What would be indicative of his scum game?

[GoodCop_BadCop]

Mara

- If I have something to ask... I will ask. 612 was an observation of your opportunistic vote for Milk. Although if you must... this question never got answered by anyone, so you can start there. I am fearless.

Where is the town-motivation in soft-claiming?

My suspicion of SoO started with his first post, not necessarily the post itself, but his vote that was placed and I could never really shake it, which is why I have been coming back to him.

If he isn't worried about putting a vote down to get Milk to L-1 at the beginning of the game, why does he unvote in a post and then leave it hanging for another 102 posts before being called out on this very thing before getting on to finish and

then

vote? I guess I just can't understand writing a post and then posting it in the thread without having finished it and then waiting until his next big post to explain why he flaked which could have happened in #383, or #459.

In a nut-shell, he has been in and out. Seems like he comes in to stir the pot, and then chills out to see the effect of his waves. If you look at all of his large posts they are spread out over a lengthy period.

Stirs in #380, Next Big Post #482. Disappears again until #547. And again to #614.

Top that all off with me being curious as to whether my theory is spot on or way off... which honestly could wait till end-game, but I guess my pride just blinds me a bit.

Despite going V/LA, he has been more active and engaged since he made the post which I am not sure what to make of yet...

What I REALLY don't get are people saying SOO is town without any reasoning. First Amrun, then Belisarius, and now Selkes. If he is really town, I need help seeing it because I am having a hard time here.

Selkes

! Explain. Also Explain why you went through ISO's and left out SOO when you made a post mentioning players you weren't going to ISO but didn't mention him.

I just want Amrum to answer my question.

^This. She is dodging and it's bad.

Willing to Lynch: Mara or Milk as a compromise.

~GC

[Selkies]

Selkes! Explain. Also Explain why you went through ISO's and left out SOO when you made a post mentioning players you weren't going to ISO but didn't mention him.

I have more isos to do and some will wait for tomorrow. I'm going alphabetically but have skimmed a couple of isos and thought "yeah, town I think..." I won't be posting a MattP iso analysis for that reason.

Milk and Miss Destroyer/Ms Marangal will take some time and I hope to finish at least one of them bfore I hit the sack...but it's almost 11 pm my time.

Do you have any thoughts about Iecerent? Any prior game experience?

[GoodCop_BadCop]

Bad cop/C checking in. GC just went offline and asleep; it's 2am his time. Working on some other stuff, will have it shortly.

(aside, selkies, you're in the same time zone as me looks like, GMT -8)

[Selkies]

GCBC re SoO's activity level and periods with no posts, here is a recent Micro game he and I played together. http://www.forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopi ... er_sort=Go (link to his iso).

His first large post in that game was so big that he split it in two. There were some long gaps between his lengthier posts, and some periods when he went a while with no posts at all due to real world stuff. He was town.

[Selkies]

looks like the link's broken. here's a link to the thread - http://www.forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopi ... 83&t=28260

[Ms Marangal]

Demon is still scum, and Two of the compromise wagons are probs PR while the a third is now very likely to be town. I think Milk is the best option at this rate

[milkshake]

With the ThAdmiral wagon unadvisedly evaporating, apparently because of his very soft softclaim, I am looking for alternatives. I am willing to vote Ms Marangal, but I am a little worried about doing so, because as she herself points out, most of my initial suspicions have been people who want me lynched. That said, saying "I want you lynched" and then "Haha! You can't suspect me because you're OMGUSing!" is self-serving to the point of being scummy. Also note that nearly everyone has suspected me at one point or another, so Ms Marangal is not so special in that regard.

The self meta she was providing was preemptive at best. I think scum is more self conscious and prone to providing self-meta when not under pressure.

Also

I'm not going to fullclaim, so either lynch me or don't. Getting me to L-1 will be pointless.

How the fuck is this thing Scum? like, seriously what will ScumThad gain from being so stubborn RE claiming?

To me, defending ThAdmiral like this seems like it COULD be defending a scum buddy. You see your buddy is being stupid, and then, recognizing that, post "come on! Would scum be that stupid?" But I'm not sure on this point.

UNVOTE: ThAdmiral

VOTE: Ms Marangal

This post is 7 parts actual suspicion, 3 parts bandwagoning out of necessity because there are roughly 24 hours remaining.

[Ms Marangal]

I'm nayvelene.

confirmvote: Milk

[Ms Marangal]

I

am willing to vote Ms Marangal, but I am a little worried about doing so, because as she herself points out, most of my initial suspicions have been people who want me lynched.

That said, saying "I want you lynched" and then "Haha! You can't suspect me because you're OMGUSing!" is self-serving to the point of being scummy. Also note that nearly everyone has suspected me at one point or another, so Ms Marangal is not so special in that regard.

The self meta she was providing was preemptive at best.

I think scum is more self conscious

and prone to providing self-meta when not under pressure.

Between the two of us, who has been more self-conscious?

thanks for confirming that you are in fact scum

[Ms Marangal]

Sorry, Nynaeve

[milkshake]

Yeah, I mean I'm super self conscious and I STILL didn't do what you did, even under pressure.

Also, you just did the second part of what I said was standard advice for scum. To recap, the advice is "Self-meta, then claim early."

[Ghostlin]

Unvote. Vote: Milk

because of the intense feeling that SOO and I are not going to work out our differences, and not lynching sucks ass.

[Ms Marangal]

What did I do? React?

Try and paint my actions in a townish light? oh, wait that was you...

What did I do that shows that I'm self-conscious?

as for self-meta, the only thing that could be considered as such was how I interacted with Swords and it was because I expected him to know me better.

Beyond that, self-meta is no where near a scum-tell. Town and scum both have used self-meta, I have seen it, I have done it, It is not a scum-tell. Painting it as one so you could incriminate people is shit

and early claim? yeah because this is one of the instances where I don't really want to get lynched because I will be useful to this game outside the day phase but I also don't want scum to know what exactly it is that I can do.

Pedit: that's to Milk

[fferyllt]

Milk

Initial posts read as awkward, which was why I thought "scum" at first and why we voted for milk.
130
seemed from a town perspective to both me and orcinus. orcinus moved our vote to Nero right after that post.
132, 136
disagrees thata SoO's vote looked most scummy of the 6.
172
gut explanation is a bit of a window into milk's play style - "information" is narrowly defined. Might be why milk digs (too hard IMO) for something more concrete than analyzing walls.
257

I think 3/4 of these people are scum: Ghostlin, Selkies, GoodCop_BadCop, MattP.

But yeah, well, that just like, uh, my opinion, man.

seemed like a truly bizarre list to expect to find 3 scum at the time it was posted. And hasn't aged well.
373
Matt has been dropped from the scum list because Milk doesn't think there's enough support. Associative speculation. Telegraph's vote change.
435
scum list has changed:
gcbc still scum, joined by ThAdmiral, and Beliasaurus. Matt, Ghostlin and Selkies now all town.
Given the amount of telegraphing earlier, this trajectory is a little odd.
449
followy vote on Beliasaurus (mentiones another person's case)
465
scum team found!
476
pushes beliasaurus lynch.
517
self absorption. GCBC is scum because trying to drum up interest in a milk vote is scummy. terrible logic.
525
jumps off Beli wagon right after I do. Next post indicates uncertainty about other scum reads.
546
Now GCBC looks town. Gives reason (mild hydra disagreement) because earlier opinion change with no reason criticized.
552
logic for voting ThAdmiral - most likely town or 3rd party. vote them anyway.
594
New reads list. Scum are now ThAdmiiral and Ms. Marangal. No reasons given.
601
Now thinking ThAdmiral could be town
607
Comes off as genuine irritation with MsM about whether to push ThAdmiral for a full claim.
684
Compromise vote on MsM? Appears to prefer ThAd.

The reads changeability is a town characteristic imo, and not an easy one to duplicate as scum.

[Selkies]

Milk

Initial posts read as awkward, which was why I thought "scum" at first and why we voted for milk.
130
seemed from a town perspective to both me and orcinus. orcinus moved our vote to Nero right after that post.
132, 136
disagrees thata SoO's vote looked most scummy of the 6.
172
gut explanation is a bit of a window into milk's play style - "information" is narrowly defined. Might be why milk digs (too hard IMO) for something more concrete than analyzing walls.
257

I think 3/4 of these people are scum: Ghostlin, Selkies, GoodCop_BadCop, MattP.

But yeah, well, that just like, uh, my opinion, man.

seemed like a truly bizarre list to expect to find 3 scum at the time it was posted. And hasn't aged well.
373
Matt has been dropped from the scum list because Milk doesn't think there's enough support. Associative speculation. Telegraph's vote change.
435
scum list has changed:
gcbc still scum, joined by ThAdmiral, and Beliasaurus. Matt, Ghostlin and Selkies now all town.
Given the amount of telegraphing earlier, this trajectory is a little odd.
449
followy vote on Beliasaurus (mentiones another person's case)
465
scum team found!
476
pushes beliasaurus lynch.
517
self absorption. GCBC is scum because trying to drum up interest in a milk vote is scummy. terrible logic.
525
jumps off Beli wagon right after I do. Next post indicates uncertainty about other scum reads.
546
Now GCBC looks town. Gives reason (mild hydra disagreement) because earlier opinion change with no reason criticized.
552
logic for voting ThAdmiral - most likely town or 3rd party. vote them anyway.
594
New reads list. Scum are now ThAdmiiral and Ms. Marangal. No reasons given.
601
Now thinking ThAdmiral could be town
607
Comes off as genuine irritation with MsM about whether to push ThAdmiral for a full claim.
684
Compromise vote on MsM? Appears to prefer ThAd.

The reads changeability is a town characteristic imo, and not an easy one to duplicate as scum.

oops

[Selkies]

One curious thing...milk has hardly interacted with or mentioined Amrun at all.

[Selkies]

orcinus here I'm back and talking with fery

GTFO, you know I'm a better scum-player than that

Hm.

[Selkies]

Hi orcinus here I think Marangal is scum for several reasons. I'm still talking to fery about it and she's running an ISO right now but just really quickly:

Why did you not press me on 315 considering I never replied to that point and you asked me twice?

Wait...

Dream-walker...

now I'm even more confused on the thing between you and Ghost, the two of you are walkers and I'm pretty sure all the walkers are town, so what were you trying to say swords?

This seems like scum feining ignorance.
God this Ad defense is badddddddd
Marangal has a really freaking weird interaction with SOO

[milkshake]

I guess if no one counterclaims Ms Marangal's Nynaeve, then there's a reasonable chance she's town.

Would prefer a ThAdmiral lynch.

I think Amrun is town. His interaction with Ghostlin made me think that.

I think I'm willing to vote almost anyone over a no lynch. Just because people dying means information (brutal, I know). BUT, a no lynch actually might not be the end of the world. If the usual 1-kill-a-night pattern gets modified in anyway, then statistically we're actually better off no lynching. Well, unless it gets modified twice. But then... three times is back to better off. Yeah, you get the idea.

[Selkies]

I guess if no one counterclaims Ms Marangal's Nynaeve, then there's a reasonable chance she's town.

how exactly is it that you know scum don't have safeclaims

[milkshake]

I forgot about that possibility.

[Selkies]

I forgot about that possibility.

okay good because i personally find her claim scummy