Xenoblade Mafia (Game Over)

[Ghostlin]

But I saw your post and realized that your reasoning doesn't actually make sense wrt POE in 2 wagon.

OK. Random-wise, you're right, it doesn't make sense except I suspect certain people being Town. Now, 11 players out of 20, 1 being scum...isn't rubbish, actually. That said, I did find some things in the ISOs.

Although not Venmar's ISO, because don'tfuckingcare didn't really fucking care.

[Sajin]

I picture a 50 foot wall between these 2 houses complete with spiked fences. Do you know anything else about each other besides that the other is your neighbor? Yes or no is fine.

Also how long is your conversation (post count of your quicktopic, or length)

Are you day neighbors? Or just night?

[Venmar]

Bah. I still feel like Aj is town to be honest.

So I think Rachmarie should be our lynch.
- Discuss.

[Andrius]

Nope. Nice try jiffy.
I'm personally thinking the second half of the wagon; scum bussing once they realize that 2 can't be saved.

Sorry nacho, but depending on how things play out today I might start shipping Mollie-Andy

Bummer- part of me was looking forward to killing jiffy tonight.
Guess that frees up my nights for the other half of the hydra.

No one can come between us. <3

Wait what's with the sudden AJ wagon?
Did I miss some important information?

don't you talk like this to me andylove
don't you dare talk to me like this

Ask of me, and I shall follow thee.
But I don't see it. Sorry. Its not strong like another D1 lynch we know of but I do hold my read.

You are an idiot for claiming and your anger looks incredibly untownie

Ghostlin and I are neighbors

..Um, now you're what the fucking me. No, literally, you're dropping acid..

I didn't even barely softclaim that; you presumed I was talking about you.

How, I might as well fucking confirm it. We are fucking neighbors.

I am so jealous.

[Sajin]

Venmar.... really really likes waffles. I will decide on his alignment when I get a better answer to my concerns yesterday than "I answered it already"

[Ghostlin]

I picture a 50 foot wall between these 2 houses complete with spiked fences. Do you know anything else about each other besides that the other is your neighbor? Yes or no is fine.

Also how long is your conversation (post count of your quicktopic, or length)

Are you day neighbors? Or just night?

No, roughly 15 posts, only night talk.

[Venmar]

Venmar.... really really likes waffles. I will decide on his alignment when I get a better answer to my concerns yesterday than "I answered it already"

My reads are VERY consistent actually. Well, except for you of course, you're actually town.

[Andrius]

Still jealous.

[Venmar]

By the way, I did answer it before.

@Venmar- Have a spine please. If it is a gut feeling and you felt like posting about it, it must be because you were trying to convince someone else of your position. Yet you have nothing to backup your position. This earns scum points from me.

- Lol wtf is this.

It is a proper reasoned accusation. What is the point of your post? If you disagree with what I said, say so and explain.

- No, it's nitpicking, and your reasoning is incredibly stretched to say the least.

Here I think.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

But I saw your post and realized that your reasoning doesn't actually make sense wrt POE in 2 wagon.

OK. Random-wise, you're right, it doesn't make sense except I suspect certain people being Town. Now, 11 players out of 20, 1 being scum...isn't rubbish, actually. That said, I did find some things in the ISOs.

Although not Venmar's ISO, because don'tfuckingcare didn't really fucking care.

Okay but a case that is built with the mindset of POE in a random 11 person sample doesn't sit right with me. I for one think it completely possible that no scum were on the wagon. Not likely but certainly possible.

I think you should scumhunt without using that as your starting point

[Nachomamma8]

...wagon requires 11/20 players.
Good chance that in HALF the playerlist, there's at least ONE scum.

it's the majority of my townblock
let's not hunt off the wagon today, okay?

[Ghostlin]

But I saw your post and realized that your reasoning doesn't actually make sense wrt POE in 2 wagon.

OK. Random-wise, you're right, it doesn't make sense except I suspect certain people being Town. Now, 11 players out of 20, 1 being scum...isn't rubbish, actually. That said, I did find some things in the ISOs.

Although not Venmar's ISO, because don'tfuckingcare didn't really fucking care.

Okay but a case that is built with the mindset of POE in a random 11 person sample doesn't sit right with me. I for one think it completely possible that no scum were on the wagon. Not likely but certainly possible.

I think you should scumhunt without using that as your starting point

I have been, for the most part. I've been using it to widen my net--or more to the point, who's been eluding my focus up until now that we have a flip.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

What you are reading is how abrasive my playstyle can be and because it is different than how the average player plays town you assume he must but be opposite of what the average player is (town) and is therefore scum. If that is correct, then please talk to nacho or someone else and get a reason from them. If that is not correct, feel free to ask me some questions.

It's not abrasive in a town way tho

I mean. I don't mind abrasive play. I have abrasive play. I think it's good to a certain extent.

but I think that some of your accusations have too little actual substance and too much flowery insults.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

also, you don't have to put words in my mouth. I can do that perfectly find on my own

[Metal Sonic]

iso'd AJ


I find AJ leaning town.

This is a rather town post

Also not a fan of TD for reasons that have been stated already, but also kind of iffy on AJ for tunneling TD so hard. Both are scummy, but they probs aren't scum together. AJ, do you have thoughts about the rest of what has been going on?

Besides a lot of the content is fickle as all hell?

You have a town v town when Mollie first brings her hydra in against 2.
Nacho is the town-Venmar this game.
Orcinus is running in fucking circles at the moment. Varsoon is running in ovals. Varsoon was way too quick to back off his case for Orc, but even stranger is that Orc didn't hammer on Varsoon for completely disregarding orc after about 4 posts (even though he went through all that trouble for an incredibly long wall). Even worse, Orc backs off his own vote.

To be honest, I've learned from past that orc can have his say, but don't give him too much weight. It can result in catastrophe. So even considering him a 'town leader' (What, by posts? Definitely not by flips...) is presumptuous, Varsoon.

Mac is his general passive self, but that's not going to help this day.

Sven can easily be any allignment he wants to be. Give me the guilty results I want as a tracker and I'll consider your claim legitimate... Maybe. A miller doesn't usually have a secondary role. It sounds like a bail out of a wagon.

Town: 2, B&B, Nacho, BRO, Andrius, GIF

Scum: TD, prob-sven, lean varsoon, lesser lean orc.

Promoting discussion, giving reads on players, justifying his reads/votes. But its the beginning of the game so it may not be so relevant I will find a more recent post

Varsoon is just an odd person to read. For a while, it looked like he was being legitimately scummy (especially when he made that long case against orc and immediately unvoted), but then it was let on that he has a slight troll streak going. Reading his posts as an intent to troll makes more sense anyways.

I WANT to call orc scum, but he's just a general AtE player. I dislike his constant use of emotion, but that's more standard. His MS voting at the beginning was awful and his attacking Varsoon was backed off too early when he should've pressed forward. But otherwise, there's been nothing to give me more than casual passing glances of suspicion.

2 is much more interesting. I've liked Buldermar's posting, but fferyllt seems scummy. Fferyllt asks a lot of questions and seems more or less passive and under the radar while Buldermar goes out and tries to push points. Just by their style, Buldermar makes statements to prove points, FF asks questions as a way of hunting, but doesn't push it beyond. Buldermar attacks, no matter how he makes others feel. Surprisingly, when FF comes on and sees tmt's reads, she doesn't mention anything to it in her quote other than it's 'good to see him posting'. The "That's all but a confirmed slot" from FF, even off of meta is bad. Something is rotten in the state of Xenoblade, and I think FF may not be hiding it all that well.

p-edit: Stop it, stop it, stop it... I want to post!

This is very helpful posting, detailed reads and views on each on the viable wagons and i consider this very towny posting. its very logical, and when you consider his in context i doubt there is scum motivation for such a post


really good posts = town i guess

[Aj The Epic]

mac was town

if that was a vig shooting then they are confirmed retarded

miller kill

Exactly. Though a bit premature, I probably would've made a better n1 vig kill.

These make me like key as scum too.

And this one all but sells it once AJ flips scum (cuz he will):

I am somewhat between accepting my fate and terribly insulted you think my scum game is this easy to poke out.

Interesting. I find paranoid players are more creative as scum; the paranoia itself takes a creative process and it's the centerpiece of their towngame, so they tend to gambit a bit more as scum. But this theory is not properly fleshed out yet, but. There you go. I'm going to be looking and that paranoia and diving into it, and if it's good, we're good.

It'll show through from noob-scum, but as you're scum longer, you learn to control these gambits a little more. But I actually believe that paranoid is not the correct word... "Overthinkers" are the ones to do this.

You are an idiot for claiming and your anger looks incredibly untownie

Ghostlin and I are neighbors

Just off-hand, who has more posts? Is it noticeable?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Hi.

I'm reading Venmar as scum tbh.

That is all for now.

[BROseidon]

TD and MS can you two stop tunneling each other I'm pretty sure that neither of you are scum.

Agree with Orc about Sajin's reasoning. Yes, if we randomly pick a group of 11 players, there is probably at least one scum in that group. However, it seems like it would be more productive to do actual scumhunting. Do you have an actual case against any of myself, Varsoon, Venmar, or Sajin?

So guys if this is in fact multiball, why the hell would either scum shoot the miller, tracker claim or no? Isn't that better to leave to much later? I mean there's so many juicy obvtown targets and they chose the miller?

This seems like a bad question to ask.

So I think Rachmarie should be our lynch.
- Discuss.

Do you have a reason for this? Nacho gave a good argument for townRach.

Arthur can you say why you think Venmar is scum?

[Cabd]

Bad question or not, I'm confused and it would really be nice if somebody would put on an IC hat for a second and explain it.

[Ghostlin]

Bad question or not, I'm confused and it would really be nice if somebody would put on an IC hat for a second and explain it.

Talking about the kill done at night does nothing but create unnecessary WIFOM (particularly Day 2, with no other associations). Sometimes mafia will kill players you don't expect to manufacture this WIFOM.

Now, there are a number of players already guilty of this, including myself; but that's the general reason why not.

[Ghostlin]

...wagon requires 11/20 players.
Good chance that in HALF the playerlist, there's at least ONE scum.

it's the majority of my townblock
let's not hunt off the wagon today, okay?

I think we should at least look and see and talk about who might have been distancing/having ties to 2 after the lynch. As much as I'd love to lynch MS, TMT and Ven/don'tfuckingcare and SAD's not rocking me as well, it's not VERY possible all of them are scum, and it'd be a fascinating thing that if even two of those were scum in general.

That said:

Replacements: keep up. We just had a night phase. You should be ISOing and posting reads.

[Cabd]

Bad question or not, I'm confused and it would really be nice if somebody would put on an IC hat for a second and explain it.

Talking about the kill done at night does nothing but create unnecessary WIFOM (particularly Day 2, with no other associations). Sometimes mafia will kill players you don't expect to manufacture this WIFOM.

Now, there are a number of players already guilty of this, including myself; but that's the general reason why not.

In general yes I get that, but I mean in this case it helps determine if we have multiball or not, soooo....

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Arthur can you say why you think Venmar is scum?

Well first of all I really didn't like his exchange with Sajin. It felt like he was just attacking him due to OMGUS from this. But I really didn't like the way Venmar just came in here today and called Sajin town. It just feels so... off. Especially since he was angry yesterday, voted him, then all he really said about him is that he'll be revisiting him. So to answer someone's question of "Why is Sajin town again?" with almost like "because he is" is... weird. The response is not really adding up with someone who had a suspicion of him

right at the end of the day before

. Btw, if this is multiball, Venmar's over-explanation at the end of day 1 is extremely terrible (well, it is extremely terrible already, but if it's multiball it makes it scummy imo).

[Ghostlin]

So, in my read of the remaining four/five people on 2's wagon, I started with Sajin. (The following people had no connection to 2: BRO and Mac and I had cleared them of associative tells/nothing clanging wrong in their ISO. Venmar/don't fucking care...well, honestly, DFC did NOTHING day 1, and Ven's not be indicatively telling.)

A bit of background: I liked an early post by Sajin in my catchup, but nothing he had done recently had really meshed well with me. I was, however, expect in general a townish push in 2's direction, interaction. For example, BNB was mentally cleared by me from a null due to his fight with 2, I couldn't see the fabrication there. I found some things that bothered me. I did share this with Orc last night, although I am changing it up a little bit in case of the whole 'thou shall not quote outside this thread' is a rule.

I'll sort this into two categories: things that are more having to do with association, and general tells for me, so the players not buying 'scum on the 2 wagon' can ignore any ravings I have in the second half.

Things that bother me in a scummish way:

*No reads post. While he does have some stances, Town players are quick to have a progression of reads with set reads. He's missing the 'set reads' part of 'progression of reads'. I'm not sure this is the same thing that Nacho and BnB talk about when they talk trajectory. (I will talk more about progression of reads in a part below.)

*He rolefishes Sven by asking point blank what his role name was. (I'm talking about 190, if you want to play along.) Admittedly, this could be taken out of context. I'm not thrilled 100% of him asking more information about how our neighborhood works either or AJ doing the same, but I concede that might be paranoia talking. Yes, I answered the questions he posed mostly because they don't give scum a huge advantage.

*There's some causal cogitive dissonance between his stance in #2060 with KBW and his stance later in #2086. Granted, you could argue he's talking mostly about fluff in his stance in #2060 and #2086, but the very essence of not contributing to Town is not posting hardly anything at all; so the stances to me read awkward. (Note: I didn't share this with Orc, I just noticed it myself.)

Associative Things (2 wagon):

*He votes 2 in #2060, but the remainder of his push, the person he most interacts with the remainder of the day is Venmar. He even mentions accusing Venmar in one post. He doesn't push 2 at all except to mention it'd be ok for SAD to vote them in #2556. The posts don't indicate any interest in attacking 2 further. There's no natural progression there, not even a half-way passive '2 is scum' post. In other words, he votes someone and doesn't seem that interested in their lynch. He's more interested in cross-examining Venmar (which, my read last night made me think he thought Venmar was scum).

Also, he forms a causal link in #2556 to BnB, who is generally seen as town by saying to SAD 'You may sheep me and BnB today...'. This is a 'town by association' trick. Smooth.

*There's no other interaction between him and 2, and the reasoning for the 2 wagon is incredibly weak. He mentions that Fery is defensive (which is almost verging on tone), can't read the other half of the hydra; and doesn't ask another question. In fact, if 2 asked him a question, he doesn't answer it, and 2 took swipes at a lot of people, Nacho and BnB among them. It makes no sense and is tied with the bullet point above. If you can't read half of a hydra, why wouldn't you interact with them as much as possible.

More to come, and I will be voting but I want an answer from Varshoon about my question.

[Ghostlin]

Bad question or not, I'm confused and it would really be nice if somebody would put on an IC hat for a second and explain it.

Talking about the kill done at night does nothing but create unnecessary WIFOM (particularly Day 2, with no other associations). Sometimes mafia will kill players you don't expect to manufacture this WIFOM.

Now, there are a number of players already guilty of this, including myself; but that's the general reason why not.

In general yes I get that, but I mean in this case it helps determine if we have multiball or not, soooo....

Which if that was a shot from a 1 time Vig, we won't be able to determine until tomorrow. SK is also still an option.