Open 493 - Jungle Republic. (Game Over - Werewolf Victory)

Bacde · Post Post #1500 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:46 pm

Ok, I keep putting this game off

basically, I was convinced that the Autti slot was scum, and so now everything is thrown off

I'm going to do an in-depth read through, but its going to take time

I feel like most people are in a similar place

Mac · Post Post #1501 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:48 pm

what bothers me most about egg was that he was willing to lynch himself over PP which is fucking strange. and makes him more mafia than wolf.

Syryana · Post Post #1502 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:35 am

Oh, man. I've GOT it.

Here I was, sitting here, reading the ISOs of Bulb, GM, Egg, and getting pissed off, frustrated and absolutely nowhere with it.

Then, I saw this:

In post 22, Does Bo Know wrote:/confirm

1. I am Town. I said so. Werewolves are gross. The Mafia are trashy.
2. Bulbazak and Klick. I've played with both and they're interesting to play with.

And it HIT me.

It hit me like a ton of bricks

Like a line drive to the face

Like a fucking meteor

We've got FLIPS. Let's do a side by side of all these people and Klick/DBK/Fuzzy!

And this game got cracked wide open.

Lemme tell ya'll how it is:
Mafia: Bulbazak
Wolf: Egg

Whyso is that Syr, you ask. I will tell you, my children. Oh, but I will TELL you, and my words shall ring their truth down from the heavens and the angels shall sing and the sinners shall be lynched!

Sorry, getting carried away.

Spoiler: Bulbazak versus his Mafioso Partners

In post 22, Does Bo Know wrote:/confirm

1. I am Town. I said so. Werewolves are gross. The Mafia are trashy.
2. Bulbazak and Klick. I've played with both and they're interesting to play with.

This was where it all began. Putting his scum partners in the RVS post is ballsy as shit (verging closely on "outright insane", but I digress). This is WIFOM, I do not dispute that. But it put me on track to finding the associative tells, and boy howdy do they ever exist.

In post 135, Does Bo Know wrote:Mac's town to me because he didn't look like he faked not knowing whether scum had pre-game talk or not.

Yeah, I did say he was also town for scumhunting early, but then I forgot scum have to hunt scum too. I think I said this earlier.

You're also saying he didn't talk about the interactions anymore.

He also hasn't even posted in the game since. So that's not something to call him scum for.

So you have no opinion on Fuzzy yet?

In post 137, Bulbazak wrote:Not yet. He hasn't said or done anything that's distinctly pinged my scumdar, and I keep remembering how we mislynched him in True Love mafia where he was acting similar. This is my fourth game with him, and I still haven't seen enough of him to read him right off the bat. And I'm certainly not going to base my vote off of him only having one person on his RQS scum team. Heck, even I almost forgot that the scum team is composed of 3 members in this game. He's a complete null to me, which is understandable as we've only been playing for a day and just got out of RVS.

P-edit: I've riffed Fuzzy in every game we've been in since 1337. Not to mention that the game had just started, we were still in RVS, and I hadn't seen anything even remotely scummy.

In post 138, Does Bo Know wrote:
In post 137, Bulbazak wrote:Heck, even I almost forgot that
the scum team
is composed of 3 members in this game.
"the" scum team?

UNVOTE: fuzzybutternut
VOTE: Bulbazak

In post 144, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 138, Does Bo Know wrote:
In post 137, Bulbazak wrote:Heck, even I almost forgot that
the scum team
is composed of 3 members in this game.
"the" scum team?
Yes, "the". Scum=Mafia. I'm just used to it that way. I guess we can call werewolves scum too, but it's just a matter of semantics. I'll probably be using the term in the broadest sense during the game anyway. It's just in this case, I meant it in terms of the Mafia faction, which should be apparent given the context.

In post 157, Does Bo Know wrote:Syryana feels town to me with his post. Following a lot of my thought processes (except for the whole Zach thing but meh), easily strikes all the important parts of the game so far.

Mac's vote doesn't feel OMGUSy.

Bulb's reaction to my vote was calm. Still reads null to me though, but his explanation can probably make sense, considering the werewolf situation we're in.

TNE
still
isn't contributing anything. We should fix that.

UNVOTE: Bulbazak
VOTE: thenewearth

Do you have any explanations for your reads whatsoever? Because from what I can see, you aren't showing the slightest interest in scum hunting.

Scum theater. Written, directed and produced by Bulbazak and Bo, Mafia at Law. In the first couple of quotes, you can see Bo and Bulb idly conversing about various things, namely Mac and fuzzy. Then in #138, Bo catches onto what he believes is a scumslip and votes Bulb. Bulb reacts in #144, essentially saying "it's semantics, chill". In Bo's very next post, #157, he drops the discussion and the vote altogether and never mentions it again. The whole exchange is "HEY YOU SCUMSLIPPED", "Naw man.", "OKAY". It's fake as hell. Just look at what Bo said:

In post 157, Does Bo Know wrote:Bulb's reaction to my vote was calm. Still reads null to me though, but his explanation can probably make sense, considering the werewolf situation we're in.

"Still reads null to me but it can probably make sense?" What? If Bo had really found a scumslip he wouldn't dismissed it nearly so quickly. It's all theater, ladies and gentlemen. Moving onward.

In post 194, Does Bo Know wrote:176 has "robots"? What does that even mean?

I can agree about TNE/Icebox likely partners if TNE flips scum.

Bo does it again! He focuses on tiny little shit in his partner's posting and calls him out on it. I think the best way to describe what's happening here as "anti-associative associative tells". Bo's attacking Bulba because he must; in the event Bo flips scum and someone goes back and reads ISO, a lack of mentioning Bulb could be construed as Bo ignoring his partner. Bo is keeping a hawk-eye on Bulba and calling him out on little things to avoid that very associative tell. This helps build up town cred for Bulba later; Bo's not ignoring him and is frequently attacking him, so they're probably not partners right? The catch: what Bo is attacking Bulba about. Bo's hitting him with little, almost inconsequential things, easily explained or deflected. The robots thing is some completely irrelevant shit that was easily explained by clicking the link (granted I didn't figure this out at the time either, but Bo was super aggressive about it). The scumslip was a bit more serious, but the theater is obvious when you see how quickly Bo dropped that line of attack. He tries to justify it later by claiming he "liked Bulba's reaction", but he dropped it like it's hot.

In post 299, Does Bo Know wrote:Bulb, Fuzzy called TNE
scum
for that remark, not town.

It's also not a scum slip. But it's suspicious. Zach's barely done anything and he thinks his lynch won't bother him? And an explanation would be
nice
?

That makes it sounds like you don't care if you get the explanation or not, TNE.

Wagons and lynches are not the same thing. You shouldn't confuse them that easily.

More hawkeye from Bo. Like, almost instantly after Bulb makes that post, Bo catches him on the misrep.

In post 369, Does Bo Know wrote:
In post 366, Syryana wrote:Hey DBK, does anybody on that list lean one way or the other?
I wanna say Bulb leans closer to town, Mac leans closer to scum, and that Fuzzy's neutrality to me may change in the near future. And that Zach was only recently neutral for how he's reacted.

But those are barely leans to me, not enough to place them in town or scum lists.

Wait, hold up. He's hardly mentioned Bulb since those early attacks, yet when I ask him about the reads list, Bulb is leaning town a little? On gut? He's been watching Bulb like a hawk for a dozen pages now. There's no trajectory to his read on Bulb; he watches him intently, calls him on scumslips, yet doesn't push the attack in either case, and somehow has a slight town lean on him? No, it doesn't make any sense; it's contrived.

In post 416, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 363, Does Bo Know wrote:
zachattack wrote:Klick hasn't made enough posts for a read?
Nah. He'd be a scum read if he were active lurking, but he's said multiple times that he's been busy. I've felt overwhelmed in games before where I couldn't post enough to keep up.
Where did this null/scum read come from, especially since you had Klick as a town read earlier in the game?

In post 367, Icebox wrote: 1. If I am town, then who is scum?
Don't know. I haven't seen anything to make me start forming possible scum teams, outside of that one comment by you. That being said, I don't like the backtracking that follows that question.

@Klick: After seeing your results, I don't understand the point of that RQS in the first place, because all you're going to get is suspicions on everybody. I believe I've already covered how I almost forgot that the mafia team was composed of 3 players, and it took a quick look at the setup to remind myself. Eddie Fenix was a name I added at the last minute because of this. I'm also a player who puts a lot of thought and time into my posts, so saying that my knowing the setup is a point against me is just stupid and is actually a null tell. I'll probably look over this post a few times before posting it, just like I do everything I post. Period.

In post 413, Egg wrote: Bulb's icebox vote doesn't feel genuine to me.
What about it doesn't feel genuine?

Fuzzy's last few posts make me think he might be town.

In post 417, Does Bo Know wrote:The null read is for if he's actually busy.
The scum read is for if he's just trying to actively lurk (which could easily be a possibility, not liking his activity at this point).

My town read was based on Klick being town for asking the RQS questions and that was it, I didn't think about it very far. But then I remembered that town isn't the only faction that has to scum hunt, so Klick looking for werewolves isn't as townie as it seems.

And I only say werewolves because originally, Klick said that the answers due to questions showed possible werewolves. Not Mafia. Then later he changed his thought process.

That's why he isn't town to me anymore.

In post 429, Bulbazak wrote:
@Mod: I've had my vote on Icebox for awhile now.

Vote count has been fixed to reflect this. Any time I have missed anything just let me know like this.

@Bo:
In post 16, Klick wrote: 2. Who would you like to be
Mafia
with in this game?
Your reasons are invalid.

In post 426, Icebox wrote: @ Bulb: Explain why you think Fuzzy's response makes him town.
He's not backing off of his stances (#410) and they read as genuine.

In post 431, Does Bo Know wrote:So I'm not allowed to have a null read on Klick, Bulb?

In post 432, Bulbazak wrote:Don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying that your RQS Mafia/Werewolf reasoning has been shown to be invalid. If he's null because of activity, that's fine, but it's not enough for a scum read.

In post 433, Does Bo Know wrote:It isn't enough for a scum read.

It's enough for a not-town-yet read.

More scum theater. Bulba is asking questions with obvious answers so he and Bo can provide the illusion of scumhunting each other.

In post 837, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 789, Syryana wrote:Bulbazak got really quiet after Icebox's claim. He's around and posting, but his responses after the claim have been very curt. Considering how hardcore he was going after Icebox prior to the claim, his silence surprises me. No opinions on Klick? No opinions on Icebox's claim? Is the claim legit? Are the other wagons legit? I think Bulba felt he had a good case on Icebox and pushed hard. When he discovered Icebox was the seer, he freaked out and got really quiet. Why? It's the main reason I think Bulba is scum; no reason to fade off into the background after your major scumread claims a PR unless you're trying to hide.
Except for the fact that people were posting in rapidfire succession last night. Because of that, I watched to see what the general consensus on the claim was and awaited a counter claim. When I saw none coming, I went back and checked several ISOs. When I was done with that (and catching up on what I missed), I immediately unvoted and voted for Fuzzy (one of the ISOs I read through). Did you expect anything more than that? Regardless of my read on Icebox, everything drops when there is a PR claim. Period. I've only been starting to get decent reads since then. I've had mostly nulls all game. Plus, I've been apathetic, so there's that.

Here was a point I'd made that I'd forgotten about. Bulb was on Icebox really really hard on Day 1, but when the seer claim came he shut right up and ignores the hell out of the seer claim. After hyperfocussing Icebox for so long and getting a seer claim, he's got nothing? No knee-jerk reaction, no "what the fuck you're a liar", nothing. He attempts to justify it by saying he's apathetic and has few reads, but that doesn't really explain why he

ignored the claim of his top scumread entirely.

He's scum that outed a PR, so he panicked.

In post 959, Does Bo Know wrote:Syr.

That Bulb scum read
reeks
.

In post 967, Does Bo Know wrote:@Syr: You think Bulb is scum because
- he pointed out something about 3 scum instead of 5. Which is suspicious, but I highly doubt it warrants a lynch anytime soon. Could be Mafia (only thinking Mafia has three members) or Werewolf (Only looking for three scum members).
- he avoided the topic after Icebox's claim. I saw his response and it looked solid, IMO. Bulbazak isn't a rapid-poster, and he seems like the type to drop everything when a PR claims.

Reason he's Mafia and not Wolf: he's avidly hunting for the wolf. Well, firstly, it's not unlike Bulb to try to abolish a NK before focusing on Mafia (ANY Nightless is better than something with a NK), because I know that Bulb is the type of player willing to do anything to make his wincon easier. Getting rid of the NK does also help Mafia, but also Town. (And Mafia may like leaving the NK there if they believe the Wolf will hit town that night.)

Wow, what a turnabout. First Bo was attacking Bulb over every little thing, now he's actually

defending

him from me. With very strong terms too (my read on him

reeks

). What would cause this turnabout from Bo? Let's remember the game atmosphere at the time: Autti and Klick were the hot topics of the Day (Klick eventually gets lynched). Bo has hardly mentioned Bulb most of Day 2. (CTRL-F Bulb in DBK ISO, see how much less yellow there is near the bottom) Why then, is Bo defending Bulb at this time? Answer: He can't afford to lose two partners. He's already bussing one and he can't afford to lose the other.

In post 1009, Does Bo Know wrote:Bulb, let's be real, you're not getting your Egg lynch today. No one else has given him a large scumread.

Why is TNE telling you he's the third Mafia member with his post? I mean, his posting recently's been pretty poor, but I didn't think it was that condemning.

If Bulb votes Autti I'll switch back to Autti. Still standing by whichever wagon is bigger from Klick/Autti I'll be on.

Translation: "I don't want to lynch Klick, Bulba stop being a dumbfuck and Vote Autti, GODDAMNIT BULBA"
Scum to scum conversation doesn't get any clearer than this.

Dear merciful God, that took forever. Slogging on.

Spoiler: Egg, Wolf

Now, the Fuzzy/Egg ISO is rather different from the Bo/Bulb/Klick one. Rather than the three way brawl the Mafia had going on, Fuzzy and Egg have a much tamer relationship. Let's examine it.

In post 18, Egg wrote:
In post 9, Klick wrote:Hello, Egg. Have I ever played with you before?
Yes.

In post 16, Klick wrote:Got an important RQS.

1. Are you Town? Give three sentences to explain your reasoning.
2. Who would you like to be Mafia with in this game?
1. Yes. I got a Role PM. It says town. I'm town.
2. Fuzzy because he's always obvtown. And zach.

Also syryana is town. I'd prefer not to get into why.

In post 21, fuzzybutternut wrote:AH, Icebox! Good to see you again.

Egg, how do you know my play? O.o

In post 23, fuzzybutternut wrote:Oh, RQS. Okay.

1.) I like my role. I dislike scum roles. I am town.
2.) I'd like to see Egg be mafia. I've never played with him, but he knows me. O.O

In post 24, Egg wrote:Fuzzy, I've played with you before.

In post 26, fuzzybutternut wrote:Oh, I can't read.

Erm..
Well, yeah. Egg. For the same reasons.

In post 33, Egg wrote:
vote icebox

Post 29 swayed me into changing my intended vote.

In post 34, fuzzybutternut wrote:oh hey, this is a thing now.

VOTE: Klick

eh, why not?

In post 38, fuzzybutternut wrote:
In post 35, Bulbazak wrote:/confirmed

In post 16, Klick wrote: 1. Are you Town? Give three sentences to explain your reasoning.
2. Who would you like to be Mafia with in this game?
1. Nope. I'm a monkey. Ook.
2. Maestro and Eddie Fenix

On a serious note, glad to see Fuzzy again. He's really cool and easy to read. If he's Mafia, he'll slip within 3 pages.
Glad to see you too buddy.

In post 41, Egg wrote:Icebox, yeah when I was a scum hydra last, I made a comment just like post 37 after my other head got called out.

Bulb and Klock are probably town.
Fuzzy might be scum.
These are early gut reads except klick. I'll get more into klick if people care a few pages down the road.

Preview edit: mac, that didn't look like mod/scum interaction.

The relevant post is at the bottom, the rest are included for reference. Note the bolded. As of Post 41, Egg has a gut scumread. First problem, where did Egg get this gut scumread? Second problem, and more damning IMO, fuzzy

completely ignores

the scumread. Why would fuzzy ignore that scumread? Hell, fuzzy (teehee I almost called him fuccky, I'm getting tired) got defensive when Bulb said he was bad scum. Why wouldn't he even react to Egg's gut scumread? The only reason I can think of is that fuzzy didn't feel threatened by it; they're partners. Also worthy of note is that Egg never mentions this gut scumread again until #153:

In post 153, Egg wrote:Klick, i'd be more than willing to lynch ice though. Not quite sure on fuzzy. Gut was saying he could be scum after his first few posts. That feeling has faded a bit though. Throughout Page 5, I do notice a sense of confidence I haven't seen from him before. And I don't think I've seen his scum game. Meh. Not quite sure what to think.

He doesn't comment on Fuzzy until after I give reasons on fuzzy being scum in #146. Even then, he ignores the points I make and talks about his really stale gut scum read on him. Also notice how he's reluctant to vote for fuzzy even though he had a gut scumread.

In post 162, Egg wrote:Meh. It's whatever. Thene and icebox are scummier anyway. And maybe even fuzzy.

More feather-light bussing. No vote.

In post 397, Egg wrote:Fuzzy's zach vote is horrible. Townfuzzy makes bad votes for bad reasons that you can tell he believes. He seems too fake in his votes here. More than willing to lynch him at this point.

Strongly declares fuzzy scum, still no vote.

Egg and fuzzy ignore the hell out of each other until:

In post 763, Egg wrote:Even if fuzzy wasn't crumbing, he's still scum. I only backed off because I thought he crumbed. He was scum before that.

Still

no vote. He's putting off bussing as long as possible.

In post 769, Egg wrote:Fuzzy, I want to try something. Assume you are scum for a minute. Just role play this. You are scum and pretty sure klick is on the other team. Humor me. Even if you are town, do this. Ok, now why does lynching klick "solve more problems" than lynching you? Is this true if he is on one specific team and that team is more dangerous? Is it easier to find his buddies? Is there more info on his wagon? What is it?

Bacde, I had klick as a town read then he lurked and came back all scummy.

Thene, I don't think I've seen wisdom win a game before. You're definitely right about the brick wall thing though.

Goodmorning, I always try hard in the early game. I've recently been called scum for it in almost all of my games. What stupidity did I agree with? I can't find it. As for my thing about telling werewolves to shoot mafia, it was discussed in length. Yes, it benefits the werewolves a ton to shoot mafia. It also benefits town. If you can't see why, I have no help for you.

By the way, what is the name of that tell where you replace in and say the person before you played poorly? Goodmorning may have committed it. The Amished tell. Almost didn't remember the name lol. Been so long.

One more thing goodmorning. Why such a strong town read on bulb? The rest of your post never indicated this.

Icebox, I still have thene as scum but things happened. Fuzzy and klick are both scum. Bulb is scum. It's just a matter of who to lynch today.

Bacde, I don't see why you changed your mind on a seer counter claim. I still am against it. Would rather not get into why until tomorrow though. Wait. And now you are back to "don't claim". Ok, whatever lol.

And now I'm caught up.

unvote, vote fuzzy

In post 775, Egg wrote:But werewolves should be shooting for mafia at night. If they don't, which any reasoning not to is beyond me, we can make them our entire focus.

Also, when did we prove you weren't a werewolf?

In post 777, Egg wrote:That's not very convincing...

"I know I'm town" never sways anyone.

In post 859, Egg wrote:I've read through page 33 and I have to ask. Why is fuzzy's reaction so obvtown?

In post 863, Egg wrote:Goodmorning, the partner blame thing is something I've seen a good handful of scum hydras do. I can't recall seeing it from a town hydra. However, icebox is an uncountered claimed seer, so I'm willing to accept that I was wrong for now.

I can't say zach's play was great, but the Amished tell is going out of your way to mention it. I don't personally have a ton of experience with that tell, but the two or three times I saw it brought up, it was right and the people using it said it had been right in the past.

I thought the werewolves shooting mafia thing was what you meant by something vague in your post. You said something to the effect of "the WIFOM on page x" I think.

Also, who says scumfuzzy would have to be faking those final reads? If he is scum, maybe those are the players he thinks are on the other team.

In post 870, Egg wrote:Bulb, I only count five scum reads in that post. You, fuzzy, klick, thene, and possibly goodmorning. Although I admit if you want to say I'm calling out a lot of possible scum, I've more than entertained the idea that mac or autti is scum. I also think Bo is worth looking at if thene flips scum. And I haven't entirely dismissed the idea that icebox could be scum but this isn't the time or place to be going after an uncountered claimed seer. So yeah, I have a lot of suspicions. The number of scum in this game is a huge reason why. I'm not saying every one of those players is scum, obviously. It's just where I'm looking. Right now, fuzzy, klick, and you are my primary focus.

Can you explain your town read on goodmorning? He's someone I'm trying to understand a bit because I had a town read on zach and he doesn't look so town so I'm wrong somewhere considering he replaced zach.

In post 871, Egg wrote:Bo, my reasons for fuzzy scum are mostly meta. It's the way he is actively scumhunting when he is town. Yes, it may be poor attempts, but you can clearly see the intent. I just don't see that in this game. Every one of his votes looks fake and forced, which while common in new town players, isn't townfuzzy at all.

Thene, yes. I look at reactions all the time. I don't see fuzzy's last reads as an obvtown reaction.

There's the turning point. The time has come to bus and bus hard. Look at that last post by Egg. He's telling Bo that his read on fuzzy is "mostly meta based" and revolves around "the [lack of] scumhunting". He's been idly calling fuzzy scummy all day, yet doesn't push until fuzzy's lynch gets damn near inevitable. And when pushin time comes, he pushes like a pregnant woman with an IV of caffeine and LSD. Hoo mama, that's some pushin right dere! (god i need to stop this)

And that's more or less that. I don't really feel the need to rehash the wolf intent from Egg's posts since Bulba's already done it and I'm so done with this.

Ya'll have fun with that. And vote Egg.

Pedit: Hey Mac, notice he didn't self vote until after we all moved our votes back to Princess. He was gambling.

Egg · Post Post #1503 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:41 am

Ya' know...

If we take syryana's town reads on mac and bacde and trust those and trust that Syryana is town, that leaves bulb, goodmorning, and myself as syryana said. We are allowed one mislynch. That list would have 1 town, 1 mafia, and 1 werewolf in a perfect world. It's almost worth just lynching down that list.

Syryana, doesn't that Bo post make Bulb LESS likely to be mafia?

No time to read the rest of that post. I'll get to it on my lunch break in 2-3 hours.

goodmorning · Post Post #1504 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:15 am

That would be one hell of a taunt, but from DBK I could kinda see it.

I can see why people think Mac is Town but am becoming less sure about Bacde myself and Syr is still in my bottom three. Still working on reread, sorry it's been crazy for me recently.

In post 1501, Mac wrote:what bothers me most about egg was that he was willing to lynch himself over PP which is fucking strange. and makes him more mafia than wolf.

Says wolf to me. Why does it say mafia to you?

I could see an Egg lynch here but I definitely want to finish reread before I hop on it.

@Egg: That's a lot of "if"s.

Mac · Post Post #1505 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:17 am

why does it say more wolf?

i'm trying to think why I thought it was mafia rather than wolf.

i think it was because mafia is so powerless it kinda felt like he was giving up. not sure if that's legit.

goodmorning · Post Post #1506 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:25 am

I think that whoever said it before (Bacde?) got it right: that he saw her all but claim wolf with the wager and decided to defend in hopes of towncred because he knew she was not the wolf.

goodmorning · Post Post #1507 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:25 am

(And he knew she was not the wolf because he is the wolf)

Mac · Post Post #1508 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:31 am

I said it!

but really started to doubt it.

I didn't like bacde's entrance into the thread when it opened, however

Egg · Post Post #1509 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:02 am

Syryana, the gut scum read on fuzzy came from meta. I explained it in depth. He typically is genuinely trying hard to find scum even if he does so poorly. This game, that same effort seemed to have a focus on fitting in. While I caught a glimpse of this early on, it took a while for the read to actually develop fully. I didn't change my vote when I was behind on my read and by the time I caught up, I thought he'd crumbed seer and was trying to make sense of that whole situation.

I'm guessing he didn't respond to the initial suspicion because all I did is call it gut and I didn't even vote. There's no reason for him to feel threatened by that regardless of my alignment.

I'd also argue that the lynch was far from inevitible at the point where a few people called fuzzy's reaction an obvtown one.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1510 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:23 am

In post 1502, Syryana wrote:Scum theater. Written, directed and produced by Bulbazak and Bo, Mafia at Law. In the first couple of quotes, you can see Bo and Bulb idly conversing about various things, namely Mac and fuzzy. Then in #138, Bo catches onto what he believes is a scumslip and votes Bulb. Bulb reacts in #144, essentially saying "it's semantics, chill". In Bo's very next post, #157, he drops the discussion and the vote altogether and never mentions it again. The whole exchange is "HEY YOU SCUMSLIPPED", "Naw man.", "OKAY". It's fake as hell. Just look at what Bo said:
In post 157, Does Bo Know wrote:Bulb's reaction to my vote was calm. Still reads null to me though, but his explanation can probably make sense, considering the werewolf situation we're in.
"Still reads null to me but it can probably make sense?" What? If Bo had really found a scumslip he wouldn't dismissed it nearly so quickly. It's all theater, ladies and gentlemen. Moving onward.

Or Bo knew that what I said

wasn't

a scumslip, since he was Mafia, and he probably knew that my play was off this game. I had answered him completely and logically, if he pushed it further, he knew he would risk waking me up game-wise, and the last thing he would need would be me latched onto him for the rest of the game (see: Egg). I've noticed that scum tend to like to keep me around for a later mislynch (But not Lylo.).

In post 1502, Syryana wrote:
In post 194, Does Bo Know wrote:176 has "robots"? What does that even mean?

I can agree about TNE/Icebox likely partners if TNE flips scum.
Bo does it again! He focuses on tiny little shit in his partner's posting and calls him out on it. I think the best way to describe what's happening here as "anti-associative associative tells". Bo's attacking Bulba because he must; in the event Bo flips scum and someone goes back and reads ISO, a lack of mentioning Bulb could be construed as Bo ignoring his partner. Bo is keeping a hawk-eye on Bulba and calling him out on little things to avoid that very associative tell. This helps build up town cred for Bulba later; Bo's not ignoring him and is frequently attacking him, so they're probably not partners right? The catch: what Bo is attacking Bulba about. Bo's hitting him with little, almost inconsequential things, easily explained or deflected. The robots thing is some completely irrelevant shit that was easily explained by clicking the link (granted I didn't figure this out at the time either, but Bo was super aggressive about it). The scumslip was a bit more serious, but the theater is obvious when you see how quickly Bo dropped that line of attack. He tries to justify it later by claiming he "liked Bulba's reaction", but he dropped it like it's hot.

So now me pointing out a formatting error is scummy, especially since it is something I tend to do (null tell)? Or is it Bo's asking about it, because need I remind you that you did too?

In post 1502, Syryana wrote:Wait, hold up. He's hardly mentioned Bulb since those early attacks, yet when I ask him about the reads list, Bulb is leaning town a little? On gut? He's been watching Bulb like a hawk for a dozen pages now. There's no trajectory to his read on Bulb; he watches him intently, calls him on scumslips, yet doesn't push the attack in either case, and somehow has a slight town lean on him? No, it doesn't make any sense; it's contrived.

I'm good for towncred apparently...

In post 1502, Syryana wrote:
In post 837, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 789, Syryana wrote:Bulbazak got really quiet after Icebox's claim. He's around and posting, but his responses after the claim have been very curt. Considering how hardcore he was going after Icebox prior to the claim, his silence surprises me. No opinions on Klick? No opinions on Icebox's claim? Is the claim legit? Are the other wagons legit? I think Bulba felt he had a good case on Icebox and pushed hard. When he discovered Icebox was the seer, he freaked out and got really quiet. Why? It's the main reason I think Bulba is scum; no reason to fade off into the background after your major scumread claims a PR unless you're trying to hide.
Except for the fact that people were posting in rapidfire succession last night. Because of that, I watched to see what the general consensus on the claim was and awaited a counter claim. When I saw none coming, I went back and checked several ISOs. When I was done with that (and catching up on what I missed), I immediately unvoted and voted for Fuzzy (one of the ISOs I read through). Did you expect anything more than that? Regardless of my read on Icebox, everything drops when there is a PR claim. Period. I've only been starting to get decent reads since then. I've had mostly nulls all game. Plus, I've been apathetic, so there's that.
Here was a point I'd made that I'd forgotten about. Bulb was on Icebox really really hard on Day 1, but when the seer claim came he shut right up and ignores the hell out of the seer claim. After hyperfocussing Icebox for so long and getting a seer claim, he's got nothing? No knee-jerk reaction, no "what the fuck you're a liar", nothing. He attempts to justify it by saying he's apathetic and has few reads, but that doesn't really explain why he
ignored the claim of his top scumread entirely.
He's scum that outed a PR, so he panicked.

Hey, you know what you do when the person you're pursuing claims a PR? You drop them and wait for a counter claim, especially in an open format where we know exactly what's in the game. If you continue to push them regardless, should they flip the PR, it ruins your credibility and makes you an unnecessary distraction when trying to find scum.

In post 1502, Syryana wrote:
In post 959, Does Bo Know wrote:Syr.

That Bulb scum read
reeks
.

In post 967, Does Bo Know wrote:@Syr: You think Bulb is scum because
- he pointed out something about 3 scum instead of 5. Which is suspicious, but I highly doubt it warrants a lynch anytime soon. Could be Mafia (only thinking Mafia has three members) or Werewolf (Only looking for three scum members).
- he avoided the topic after Icebox's claim. I saw his response and it looked solid, IMO. Bulbazak isn't a rapid-poster, and he seems like the type to drop everything when a PR claims.

Reason he's Mafia and not Wolf: he's avidly hunting for the wolf. Well, firstly, it's not unlike Bulb to try to abolish a NK before focusing on Mafia (ANY Nightless is better than something with a NK), because I know that Bulb is the type of player willing to do anything to make his wincon easier. Getting rid of the NK does also help Mafia, but also Town. (And Mafia may like leaving the NK there if they believe the Wolf will hit town that night.)
Wow, what a turnabout. First Bo was attacking Bulb over every little thing, now he's actually
defending
him from me. With very strong terms too (my read on him
reeks
). What would cause this turnabout from Bo? Let's remember the game atmosphere at the time: Autti and Klick were the hot topics of the Day (Klick eventually gets lynched). Bo has hardly mentioned Bulb most of Day 2. (CTRL-F Bulb in DBK ISO, see how much less yellow there is near the bottom) Why then, is Bo defending Bulb at this time? Answer: He can't afford to lose two partners. He's already bussing one and he can't afford to lose the other.

There's another way to look at this: Bo's partner attacks someone he has planned to use as either a possible mislynch or towncred later in the game, and he tells said partner to back off.

Piece of advice Scumyana: Don't wake the sleeping giant.

In post 1503, Egg wrote:Ya' know...

If we take syryana's town reads on mac and bacde and trust those and trust that Syryana is town, that leaves bulb, goodmorning, and myself as syryana said. We are allowed one mislynch. That list would have 1 town, 1 mafia, and 1 werewolf in a perfect world. It's almost worth just lynching down that list.

Except if we do that, and we're right about you being the wolf, then you win by default, since you are at the end of the list.

In post 1504, goodmorning wrote:I can see why people think Mac is Town but am becoming less sure about Bacde myself and Syr is still in my bottom three. Still working on reread, sorry it's been crazy for me recently.

You've had the Syryana-scum read since you replaced into the game. Can you give me a full explanation of why. I'm not experienced at reading Syryana, as I always tend to read him as town most of the time.

Egg · Post Post #1511 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:36 am

Bulb, it doesn't have to be in any order. I won't object to going first if we use that list. And we have 1 mislynch to use with that list. If town is lynched first, it's 2:1:1. Then lynch wolf for 2:1 and mafia next. So yeah the wolf can't be the last one lynched. Since people think I'm wolf, I'll go first then you then goodmorning unless someone has a strong wolf case against goodmorning.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1512 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:22 am

I have a strong meta read that says GM is town. I've called GM's alignment correctly in every game I've been in with her. She is def. town, along with Mac. Bacde is prob. town, but in the event of Lylo, this needs to be reexamined. You are my top wolf read. Syryana is my top mafia read. Personally, I just want this game to be over with, that way I can focus on my other 2 games given my limited computer time.

Egg · Post Post #1513 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:15 am

In mafia, you typically accept that your reads aren't perfect. That being said, who do you have as scum after a town flip from either syryana or myself?

Syryana · Post Post #1514 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:16 pm

In post 1508, Mac wrote:I didn't like bacde's entrance into the thread when it opened, however

What about it didn't you like?

In post 1509, Egg wrote:Syryana, the gut scum read on fuzzy came from meta. I explained it in depth. He typically is genuinely trying hard to find scum even if he does so poorly. This game, that same effort seemed to have a focus on fitting in. While I caught a glimpse of this early on, it took a while for the read to actually develop fully. I didn't change my vote when I was behind on my read and by the time I caught up, I thought he'd crumbed seer and was trying to make sense of that whole situation.

I'm guessing he didn't respond to the initial suspicion because all I did is call it gut and I didn't even vote. There's no reason for him to feel threatened by that regardless of my alignment.

I'd also argue that the lynch was far from inevitible at the point where a few people called fuzzy's reaction an obvtown one.

You didn't explain the read until almost a day later. You simply voted fuzzy and said nothing about why until shortly before Bo hammered. Looks a hell of a lot like a bus to me.

Few people = TNE, DBK. 2/13 changed minds hardly necessitates any sort of reprieve for fuzzy. Not to mention if Klick had been lynched that Day fuzzy would have gotten speedlynched Day 2; you still had to bus and bus hard.

In post 1510, Bulbazak wrote:Or Bo knew that what I said
wasn't
a scumslip, since he was Mafia, and he probably knew that my play was off this game. I had answered him completely and logically, if he pushed it further, he knew he would risk waking me up game-wise, and the last thing he would need would be me latched onto him for the rest of the game (see: Egg). I've noticed that scum tend to like to keep me around for a later mislynch (But not Lylo.).

How would he know your play was off this game that early? He's only played one game with you, not including this one. Are ye really saying Bo didn't push it because he was scared of ye? Really?

In post 1510, Bulbazak wrote:So now me pointing out a formatting error is scummy, especially since it is something I tend to do (null tell)? Or is it Bo's asking about it, because need I remind you that you did too?

No, I'm pointing out a series of events where Bo attacks you on silly shit and drops it. I.e. scum theater.

In post 1510, Bulbazak wrote:I'm good for towncred apparently...

Lolno

In post 1510, Bulbazak wrote:Hey, you know what you do when the person you're pursuing claims a PR? You drop them and wait for a counter claim, especially in an open format where we know exactly what's in the game. If you continue to push them regardless, should they flip the PR, it ruins your credibility and makes you an unnecessary distraction when trying to find scum.

I'm not calling you scum because you didn't push Icebox. I'm calling you scum because you had like zero reaction to their claim. No knee jerk reaction, no questioning of Icebox, nothing. Took you like four hours to even mention their name after the claim. You panicked, plain and simple and tried to vanish off the face of the earth cause you helped out a PR.

In post 1510, Bulbazak wrote:There's another way to look at this: Bo's partner attacks someone he has planned to use as either a possible mislynch or towncred later in the game, and he tells said partner to back off.

Piece of advice Scumyana: Don't wake the sleeping giant.

HOHOHOHOHO

Icwutudidthar

Now I'm Bo's partner, is that what you're saying? Let's see what you got, giant!

In post 1510, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1504, goodmorning wrote:I can see why people think Mac is Town but am becoming less sure about Bacde myself and Syr is still in my bottom three. Still working on reread, sorry it's been crazy for me recently.
You've had the Syryana-scum read since you replaced into the game. Can you give me a full explanation of why. I'm not experienced at reading Syryana, as I always tend to read him as town most of the time.

Wait, wasn't I scum just a minute ago? Now you can't read me?

In post 1512, Bulbazak wrote:I have a strong meta read that says GM is town. I've called GM's alignment correctly in every game I've been in with her. She is def. town, along with Mac. Bacde is prob. town, but in the event of Lylo, this needs to be reexamined. You are my top wolf read. Syryana is my top mafia read. Personally, I just want this game to be over with, that way I can focus on my other 2 games given my limited computer time.

Now I'm his top mafia pick again
Your read on me is fake, and you're fake
Flail harder, it will not save you

Egg · Post Post #1515 (ISO) » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:40 am

Look. That post makes it clear there is no changing your mind. You are completely convinced I am scum. This is clear by the way you use "bus" and "vote" interchangably. You seem to have the same attitude towards bulb. Your reads seem similar to mine except that you have me as scum. I have you as a strong town read. Can you tell me why you haven't responded to my idea to just go down the list and lynch:
Me today
Bulb tomorrow
Goodmorning last
?

Syryana · Post Post #1516 (ISO) » Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:05 pm

In post 1515, Egg wrote:Look. That post makes it clear there is no changing your mind. You are completely convinced I am scum. This is clear by the way you use "bus" and "vote" interchangably. You seem to have the same attitude towards bulb. Your reads seem similar to mine except that you have me as scum. I have you as a strong town read. Can you tell me why you haven't responded to my idea to just go down the list and lynch:
Me today
Bulb tomorrow
Goodmorning last
?

I thought it was pretty obvious I am fine with this

We're changing the order a bit though

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak
L-1

Syryana · Post Post #1517 (ISO) » Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:30 pm

Where is everybody

I'm all alone in a 6 player game

zabriel · Post Post #1518 (ISO) » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:50 am

Vote Count 4.2

Egg - (Bulba) L-3

Bulba - (Mac, Egg, Syr) L-1

With six alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch. Day four will end in (expired on 2013-06-15 18:00:00)

zabriel · Post Post #1519 (ISO) » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:21 am

Fun fact: Tomorrow is my birthday and Sunday marks the end of my first year on the site. Also, I'm shortening the prod timer from 72 hours to 60 hours, because I want the blood. Make it happen little warriors.

Egg · Post Post #1520 (ISO) » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:37 am

I'm here. Already happy with my vote. I've basically said all I need to say.

Mac · Post Post #1521 (ISO) » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:45 am

bacde's entrance today was very WIFOM-y and there's something else he said which made me nervous as hell.

i think i'm happy with my bulba vote right now however.

goodmorning · Post Post #1522 (ISO) » Fri Jun 07, 2013 4:35 am

Vote: Egg

I realise I'm pretty bad at reading Bulba but I really don't think it's him. More on this when I get back.

Bacde · Post Post #1523 (ISO) » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:06 am

ugh I've really been procrastinating this game

I think its a function of how unsure I am right now

zabriel · Post Post #1524 (ISO) » Fri Jun 07, 2013 5:58 am

Vote Count 4.3

Egg - (Bulba, GM) L-2

Bulba - (Mac, Egg, Syr) L-1

With six alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch. Day four will end in (expired on 2013-06-15 18:00:00)