NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

ffullisade · Post Post #3275 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:06 pm

I am pretty sure Mollie has Cephrir as town, unless something has recently changed her mind. Which I doubt.

- f

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #3276 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:29 pm

In post 3257, thezmon221 wrote:Besides, wouldn't it have made more sense for me to be a 2-shot BP instead?

It would make the most sense if you were a friendly neighbor or a 2-shot BP.
The fact you aren't raises eyebrows. What will it take for you to gain a power?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #3277 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:32 pm

In post 3221, ffullisade wrote:CTD should be totally in it. Who else?

om the hydra, but that was mostly for day 1
cephrir
bulba
haylen
KK
AA x10

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #3278 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:35 pm

In post 3226, Amethyst Kitty wrote:You said at some point that, you expected me to engage you directly if I thought I was scum and I did. alot of my early posts had to do with my read on you, and me trying to get you to tell me your reads on certain people, and it took a while for me to get an answer, and me trying to get you to talk to me. I started to shy away from that though as my scum-read on you started to decrease

And the entire time you did it, it looked horrible.

In post 3226, Amethyst Kitty wrote:and how do you go from this to wanting me dead with nothing about us in between?

You look townier, but it wasn't enough for you to be town.

In post 3274, Cephrir wrote:I'm a really easy and uncontroversial scumread to have. Need someone to pad your scumlist? Why not Cephrir?

don't do this to me man
you're town as shit

penguin_alien · Post Post #3279 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 5:59 pm

@Thor665, you asked about my take on the BatB-ffullisade slot a while ago. I'm pretty certain I haven't played a game where Majiffy or pirate mollie was scum, and from a meta POV they seem(ed) similar to their respective town play. In terms of the actual arguments, notably where you interact with the hydra, there seem to be some legit views there getting lost amid a burning desire to be right on all sides. Kind of what I'm getting out of a lot of you and Slandaar going back and forth, actually. Lots of focus on whose narrative to believe and less focus on whether the differences of interpretation or remembering facts is scummy or not. That's my overall impression, although I freely admit that I stopped reading the BatB hydra near the end of the day last day phase when things got hostile.

More specifically, looking back at fullisade's ISO, the sketchiest thing is fery coming in and talking about having read Red Ryu as scum off the first few pages of the game. The flip happened, it's not exactly going out on a limb to note a scum read there. The other player she mentions having a read on is Nachomamma8. If the evolution of events was that she read the beginning of the game over night phase and saw Red Ryu and Nacho as scummy, then saw one of them flip scum where (as far as I can tell) her reads on them aren't related, I'd expect to see a decent amount of confidence in the Nacho read. Instead there's not a lot of pushing there, with more recent posts looking to relate to Nachomamma8 as town if I'm reading right. That could be the pirate mollie head though.

Otherwise I don't have any reason to think ffullisade is scum right now.

WRT Bacde's case for thazmon221 being scum:

In post 3070, thezmon221 wrote:
Bacde wrote:
In post 3061, thezmon221 wrote:What kind of posts are you reading? I never implied you're scum. I think you're delusional and useless town.

YES!

Town, I saved you. Thank me later. LOL! this is great

He just literally lied because he can't keep track of his opinions that are displayed in his posts. Lets look at this gem right here:

In post 3044, thezmon221 wrote:1) You know who doesn't have reads that change after flips (especially two flips)? Scum. Scum doesn't need to change their reads. Your case on Nacho is exactly the same as it was D1: Crap.

This is Thezmon's argument:

1) Bacde does A
2) Scum do A

3 (assumption) Town is much less likely to do A

4) (inference/implication) Bacde is scum

Yet he denies it.

Sheep Bacde. Scumhunting made easy.
No, not really. I think you're town, though dumb and useless. I always have, and quite possibly will for a while. The fact that I presented an action to you and clearly stated that scum did it was to garner interest from you, as well as to see where your motivations lie since you're stubborn. You see, it's been debated, even here in this thread, that dumb/useless town can be synonymous with scum. It's a gray area, so I'm trying to discern between the two and make sure I am on the correct side of the spectrum.

Irrespective of thazmon221's claim, which I don't entirely swallow, Bacde, you're completely ruling out any type of reaction test being used there? Because it seems to me that if you want to get someone's attention, you're more likely to succeed if you suggest you think they're outright scum rather than anti-town.

thazmon221, on the other hand, why didn't you use your vote to pressure Bacde in that situation, since it seems like he was doing something you found scummy?

In post 3272, Cephrir wrote:There are ways to paint me as scum, but this isn't one of them. The point absolutely remains, the point being that if thez was actually a Universal Backup, one way or another, he should have been notified that he is now backing something up, which doesn't seem to have occurred. If you think I legitimately believe thez to be scum, what does it matter how I push him unless you want to argue that it's not genuine? (Which you're not)

Cephrir, why do you say that thazmon221 isn't activated as a back-up to a dead non-VT, specifically the first one killed?

EddieFenix · Post Post #3280 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:10 pm

In post 3272, Cephrir wrote:
In post 3269, CrashTextDummie wrote: In other news, Cephrir is transparently scum regardless of Thezmon's alignment.

In post 3256, Cephrir wrote:
Wiki page for Universal Backup wrote:At start, this role is effectively an ordinary Townie. However, whenever the first power role dies (i.e. Doctor, Cop, Vigilante, etc.), the Universal back-up inherits that power role and can use it themselves.
If thezmon was town he would be a Friendly Neighbor. Die scum die.

In post 3258, Cephrir wrote:I guess that counts as a power role but the point remains
No, the point doesn't remain, it has to be reconsidered from another angle (even if the conclusion stays the same). This is classic scum-pushing, narrow-minded and inflexible. I have no reason to doubt that Cephrir legitimately believes Thezmon to be scum, but he's not going about it in a remotely town way.

I'm fine with a Thezmon lynch, but the day is still young and I'd like Cephrir sorted out.

unvote, vote: Cephrir

There are ways to paint me as scum, but this isn't one of them.
The point absolutely remains, the point being that if thez was actually a Universal Backup, one way or another, he should have been notified that he is now backing something up, which doesn't seem to have occurred. If you think I legitimately believe thez to be scum, what does it matter how I push him unless you want to argue that it's not genuine? (Which you're not)

It's okay though, I know I'm not going to make it through a game with a decent player list without being lynched, I never have, so you might as well get it over with.

....Why would you even remotely point this sort of thing out?? I'm confused as crap about this (bolded and underlined) statement...

Kublai Khan · Post Post #3281 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 7:03 pm

In post 3190, ArcAngel9 wrote:
In post 3189, Nero Cain wrote:you scum? Why would you care about who I fake vig tonight?
I am not SCUM babe.
But that doesn't stop me knownig who you want to fake VIG after you said that publically... I want to see the parnoid noices...

Nero Cain has a point. There's no reason you should care about his statement if you're town. Looks more like you were jumping on some random thing to look productive.

In post 3210, ffullisade wrote:khan don't get your granny panties in a twist. gut tells me your town I am just trying to solidify the read through interaction

I'm feeling dismissed when I'm pretty sure I asked you a legit question. Explain the previous thing, then explain the "solidify the read" thing. Also, while you're at it, explain the "Thor665 said there will be 3 to 4nks" thing you said back in post 1887 that you never explained.

In post 3212, ffullisade wrote:not wrt wc. scum love "useless town" lynches

Wait, why are you voting thezmon221?

thezmon221 made it a point to not vote Bacde and is drawing the distinction between useless town and scum. If you truly believe that scum love useless town lynches, then shouldn't you be thinking thezmon221 is town because he is not trying to push a Bacde = scum argument?

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #3282 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 8:30 pm

In post 3257, thezmon221 wrote:
In post 3256, Cephrir wrote:
Wiki page for Universal Backup wrote:At start, this role is effectively an ordinary Townie. However, whenever the first power role dies (i.e. Doctor, Cop, Vigilante, etc.), the Universal back-up inherits that power role and can use it themselves.
If thezmon was town he would be a Friendly Neighbor. Die scum die.
mastin never told me I was a Friendly Neighbor after Syry's death.

Besides, wouldn't it have made more sense for me to be a 2-shot BP instead?

Let's do this one more time.
Thez claimed to be universal backup who hasn't received a role despite TWO town power roles being dead thus far.

In post 3259, thezmon221 wrote:Pretty sure that Universal Backups can't become Mason Recruiters either, and Friendly Neighbor is basically a weaker version of it. Only difference is the talk out of chat and guarantee that the target is pro-town.

This is his response. "Pretty sure they can't be mason recruiters either and friendly neighbor is basically a weaker version"
FUCK NO

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #3283 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:07 pm

VOTE: Thez

Om the Destroyer · Post Post #3284 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 9:31 pm

In post 3282, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3257, thezmon221 wrote:
In post 3256, Cephrir wrote:
Wiki page for Universal Backup wrote:At start, this role is effectively an ordinary Townie. However, whenever the first power role dies (i.e. Doctor, Cop, Vigilante, etc.), the Universal back-up inherits that power role and can use it themselves.
If thezmon was town he would be a Friendly Neighbor. Die scum die.
mastin never told me I was a Friendly Neighbor after Syry's death.

Besides, wouldn't it have made more sense for me to be a 2-shot BP instead?
Let's do this one more time.
Thez claimed to be universal backup who hasn't received a role despite TWO town power roles being dead thus far.

In post 3259, thezmon221 wrote:Pretty sure that Universal Backups can't become Mason Recruiters either, and Friendly Neighbor is basically a weaker version of it. Only difference is the talk out of chat and guarantee that the target is pro-town.
This is his response. "Pretty sure they can't be mason recruiters either and friendly neighbor is basically a weaker version"
FUCK NO

If he's scum he's shooting himself in the foot by claiming that he doesn't have any powers yet, and it's dumb to claim universal backup as scum when pr's (and confirmable ones at that) have already died. I really don't think he's scum doing some fakeclaiming here. I think shenanigans are afoot in the setup.

Lynching Thez right now isn't a good idea whether he's scum or not. Someone vig him tonight. If he's lying scum, then he dies. If he's town then it means we're not wasting a lynch on a townie. If he got the BP role unknowingly, then he survives. If he actually did get the Friendly Neighbour role then we'll have someone able to confirm him as town tomorrow.

~Pertayter

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #3285 (ISO) » Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:00 pm

wait...

UNVOTE:

In post 3274, Cephrir wrote:Eh, everyone's pretty much been babbling about it without giving a lot of reasons since I argued with B&B 115 pages ago.

I'm a really easy and uncontroversial scumread to have. Need someone to pad your scumlist? Why not Cephrir?

Why?

~Mara

ISO · Post Post #3286 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 2:51 am

In post 3279, penguin_alien wrote: Cephrir, why do you say that thazmon221 isn't activated as a back-up to a dead non-VT, specifically the first one killed?

Well, because that seems to be what he's saying, and I would think he'd find out if this had occurred. My suspicion is that he assumed the role worked like the epicmafia Amnesiac (gets to pick when and where it takes on a role).

In post 3280, EddieFenix wrote:
In post 3258, Cephrir wrote:
There are ways to paint me as scum, but this isn't one of them.
The point absolutely remains, the point being that if thez was actually a Universal Backup, one way or another, he should have been notified that he is now backing something up, which doesn't seem to have occurred. If you think I legitimately believe thez to be scum, what does it matter how I push him unless you want to argue that it's not genuine? (Which you're not)

It's okay though, I know I'm not going to make it through a game with a decent player list without being lynched, I never have, so you might as well get it over with.
....Why would you even remotely point this sort of thing out?? I'm confused as crap about this (bolded and underlined) statement...

If I thought there weren't any reasonable ways to suspect me, I'd be suspicious of everyone who ever attacked me. CTD, for example has made a relatively logical attack that I'm hoping will be proved wrong by other flips soon enough.

In post 3285, Amethyst Kitty wrote:wait...

UNVOTE:

In post 3274, Cephrir wrote:Eh, everyone's pretty much been babbling about it without giving a lot of reasons since I argued with B&B 115 pages ago.

I'm a really easy and uncontroversial scumread to have. Need someone to pad your scumlist? Why not Cephrir?
Why?

~Mara

I don't know why, that was my implicit question.

Nero Cain · Post Post #3287 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:07 am

lol. AK hammered. I am so fake vigging that tonight.

Slandaar · Post Post #3288 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:19 am

VOTE: Thor

Such a scumbag hiding from me in his other games.

mastin2 · Post Post #3289 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:09 am

Sixty-Third Votecount

:

(Eleventh Votecount Day Two,

AKA, the "Happy Scumday, Nacho!" votecount.

)

thezmon221 is at L-2!

thezmon221 - 9 (Bacde, Desperado, Kublai Khan, Nero Cain, EddieFenix, ffullisade, Nachomamma8, Cephrir, ThAdmiral)

Cephrir - 2 (Seanald, CrashTextDummie)

Haylen - 2 (Om the Destroyer, penguin_alien)
Amethyst Kitty - 1 (Thor665)
Desperado - 1 (ArcAngel9)
Bacde - 1 (Haylen)
Thor665 - 1 (Slandaar)

Not Voting - 4 (thezmon221, PeregrineV, Bulbazak, Amethyst Kitty)

With

21

alive, it's

11

to lynch.

Day Two's deadline is Thursday, June 20th, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-06-20 12:30:00).

If deadline hit now, thezmon221 would be lynched.

Bulbazak is V/LA over weekends indefinitely.
PeregrineV is V/LA until Friday, Jun 7th.

Spoiler: Changes from last votecount

Last votecount was page 131, post 3250.

Spoiler: Player Votecount History D2

Spoiler: Votecount History D2

Slandaar · Post Post #3290 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:29 am

I wasn't going to vote Thez but at this rate it will take forever to lynch him; hes scum it should be pretty obvious based on his claim alone; Universal Backup who failed to backup TWO PR? Na.

Even if you want to argue some WIFOM I suggest you just ignore the claim and think of it as VT as it clearly isn't a PR you should care about if it can't back anything up that dies.

Therefore we look at his play and come to the same conclusion of scum.

VOTE: Thez

Kublai Khan · Post Post #3291 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:16 am

ffullisade · Post Post #3292 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:28 am

In post 3279, penguin_alien wrote:More specifically, looking back at fullisade's ISO, the sketchiest thing is fery coming in and talking about having read Red Ryu as scum off the first few pages of the game. The flip happened, it's not exactly going out on a limb to note a scum read there. The other player she mentions having a read on is Nachomamma8. If the evolution of events was that she read the beginning of the game over night phase and saw Red Ryu and Nacho as scummy, then saw one of them flip scum where (as far as I can tell) her reads on them aren't related, I'd expect to see a decent amount of confidence in the Nacho read. Instead there's not a lot of pushing there, with more recent posts looking to relate to Nachomamma8 as town if I'm reading right. That could be the pirate mollie head though.

I was psyched to go after RR if we were alive on day 2. I'm glad he was NKed, but reading the day 2 opener was like stepping an unexpected step at the bottom of a stairwell. I feel like there will be some day 1 interactions with him that could be subtly enlightening. I'm still looking for them.

Mollie and I are both a little conflicted about Nacho. One of my goals today is to figure him out, and the way I manage that is by direct interaction.

My other goal is to help establish a town core, whether we are part of it or not. And figuring out Nacho and the Nacho/Bacde thing is key to that IMO.

This bandwagon is probably going to mess with my goals for day 2 actually. But, since my main goal is to lynch scum, I'm happy with how the bandwagon's going.

- ffullisade

ffullisade · Post Post #3293 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:33 am

In post 3281, Kublai Khan wrote:
In post 3210, ffullisade wrote:khan don't get your granny panties in a twist. gut tells me your town I am just trying to solidify the read through interaction
I'm feeling dismissed when I'm pretty sure I asked you a legit question. Explain the previous thing, then explain the "solidify the read" thing. Also, while you're at it, explain the "Thor665 said there will be 3 to 4nks" thing you said back in post 1887 that you never explained.

In post 3212, ffullisade wrote:not wrt wc. scum love "useless town" lynches
Wait, why are you voting thezmon221?

thezmon221 made it a point to not vote Bacde and is drawing the distinction between useless town and scum. If you truly believe that scum love useless town lynches, then shouldn't you be thinking thezmon221 is town because he is not trying to push a Bacde = scum argument?

Your questions are addressed to Mollie's posts so I'm not going to try to answer them in entirety. Our vote on thezmon was my idea. Mollie wasn't around at the time, but I felt pretty confident it's the right thing to do. I'm trusting Bacde is correct. Since then, Mollie has indicated to me that she's ok with it, so we're sticking with this vote. She's aware of the role claim and the issues around it.

- fferyllt

Bacde · Post Post #3294 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:44 am

In post 3292, ffullisade wrote:Mollie and I are both a little conflicted about Nacho. One of my goals today is to figure him out, and the way I manage that is by direct interaction.

My other goal is to help establish a town core, whether we are part of it or not. And figuring out Nacho and the Nacho/Bacde thing is key to that IMO.

Nacho refuses to interact with me directly this game (except when he demands I sheep his reads even though he admits his reads are bad)

its one of the reasons that I'm over 9000% sure that he's scum

I refuse to be a part of any town core that has nacho in it

ffullisade · Post Post #3295 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:50 am

no one better fucking hammer until I get my goddamn thoughts out there and respond

ffullisade · Post Post #3296 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:06 am

In post 3251, Bulbazak wrote:I'm having some computer issues, so I'll be posting from a library for the foreseeable future. I only have 3 hrs. a day here to split between 3 games and whatever other work I have, and only on weekdays. I'll do my best to catch up, but I'll probably be behind for awhile, so don't get mad at me if I haven't answered your question yet, as I'm probably not to that point in the game.

I will be honest I think you should replace out

With that out of the way, let's begins:

So you're reading him as scum, because he won't read you as town? That is horribad logic and is also called OMGUS.

holy crap batman do you know how much of an idiotic post this is. thor OMGUSed us cos I jumped on him first when he was fine with majiffy like 5 million pages ago. how about you don't use terminology that you obviously don't know the definition of.

This is weird and came out of nowhere. Why would you even think that Thor would get towncred by coming after you, or that even he would think that? Obviously you're playing a different game if you think this makes sense. This feels like some desperate AtE, rather than a point against Thor.

this pandering is nauseating and the logic and angle of this refutation is terrible. it is multi-ball and on this site scum have this idea that by lynching the other team they gain town cred jesus christ. there is no "desperate aTe cos I did not aTe you dummy.

will discuss it with fery but I seriously doubt you are town and most likely the one who nked syrlacious since he would be the one least likely to put up with you bullshit.

ffullisade · Post Post #3297 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:07 am

UNVOTE: thez

the vote will go back but I don't trust some you dummies not to quick hammer

ffullisade · Post Post #3298 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:13 am

In post 3274, Cephrir wrote:Eh, everyone's pretty much been babbling about it without giving a lot of reasons since I argued with B&B 115 pages ago.

I'm a really easy and uncontroversial scumread to have. Need someone to pad your scumlist? Why not Cephrir?

I had you as town ages ago plz don't make me lose it

majiffy had you as scum but generally his d1 reads suck. I still think he is a fantastic player and I love him

ffullisade · Post Post #3299 (ISO) » Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:20 am

In post 3277, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 3221, ffullisade wrote:CTD should be totally in it. Who else?
om the hydra, but that was mostly for day 1
cephrir
bulba
haylen
KK
AA x10

no to bulba

no to arc

see this is why I get suspicious of you. that list is terrible for a town core. there would be no cohesion at all and more than anything else in a multi-ball game town would need cohesion.

cephrir and khan yes, but bulba should not be a town read of yours his suck-ups are pretty freaking obvious so I read him as scum unless he is just a natural born sycophant which may very well be the case and if it is then he defo should not be in a core group since he will approach the game in a confirmation bias kind of way. but I am going to give him credit and just call him scum