WWE Believe in the Shield

[The Goat]

(Btw, the other scumreads are pidgey and Ravenpaw for me currently, but I'll be investigating those later, when I have more time available. For now, we need to focus on getting the lynch.)

My preference from strongest to least is listed above, for the record--I would most prefer a penguin_alien lynch, I would also like a Mac lynch, and I'm willing to compromise on a TheGoat lynch.

Now, your turn.

I suspect Desperado is going to be very, very displeased with you.

I like your bold vitriol. I disagree with your reads. My vote is where I like it...and after the whole Darthe incident with his read on how his predecessor behaved, Im warming up to that option, too.

[Desperado]

A little displeased, a little intrigued.

Can you explain Macscum for me again? All I got from your ISO is that he thinks monkey and arc are both scum and they were competing wagons at one point, and his townread on Nero "isn't legitimate." I think his argument with Monkey was town, and his giving multiple recap/summary posts (2006, 2099, 2360) are all transparent and unbiased summaries of the gamestate, which I find town motivated.

I don't understand Penguin either...Squid was pretty town for 659. Where did your scumread on Squid come from? What felt fake and artificial about Penguin's posts? I've found them pretty genuine personally.

Also this defense of Darthe that I found in the course of ISOing you is confusing:

^ Not only does that read as fake, but it also comes directly after a prod and is on someone who isn't going to die this close to deadline.

Okay, guys. Seriously. Walk me through, real slowly, real carefully, why Darthe is scum.

'Cause this? THIS?

This looks like town, like, seriously seriously town.

I haven't read the game yet, obv, but this does not seem like a scum-Darthe. (Granted, I've only seen town-Darthe so I don't know what his scumplay actually is,

but it certainly looks town. )

It actually reflects my thoughts on penguin's post perfectly; it felt fake and artificial. (Penguin has become a bit of a scumread, by the way.)

Can you walk me through your thought process here? Your townread on Darthe is not at all clear to me. And if it really is just a gut feeling, can you explain why you're so confident in it that you're trying to start a darkhorse wagon 3 days before the deadline when this player list has already shown an inability to lynch, even if they're only presented with two options? This:

Contrary to popular belief, yes, we CAN get a darkhorse lynch to go through with the time we have, and--contrary to popular belief--it CAN be on scum.

Has been disproven in this very thread. We couldn't even get a lynch WITHOUT a darkhorse last minute candidate. What on earth leads you to believe that you can accomplish this?

[Nero Cain]

I don't get why Despo is voting Darthe if he just said he doesn't think scum told.

I said I didn't see the Amished tell, but that I agreed that what he did was not town motivated.

Please read everything I say before making some kind of judgement, this isn't the first time you've clearly misread me.

I don't see much of a difference there. Does it really matter if he committed a specific named tell as long as there was no town intent?

Mastin-deadline is close. I don't know what time British Standard time is in Central time for me and we CANNOT no lynch today. And this whole "stop the Darthe wagon" could easily end in a no lynch. Just look at day 1.

[Desperado]

I don't get why Despo is voting Darthe if he just said he doesn't think scum told.

I said I didn't see the Amished tell, but that I agreed that what he did was not town motivated.

Please read everything I say before making some kind of judgement, this isn't the first time you've clearly misread me.

I don't see much of a difference there. Does it really matter if he committed a specific named tell as long as there was no town intent?

Mastin-deadline is close. I don't know what time British Standard time is in Central time for me and we CANNOT no lynch today. And this whole "stop the Darthe wagon" could easily end in a no lynch. Just look at day 1.

No it really doesn't. But you decided to butt in to a question that I asked Mac, even though I had already stated that I agreed with your interpretation of events (and continued to say that I agreed in the process of discussing it with you).

The 2nd paragraph is why you're town.

[Mac]

yeah I fucked up that amished tell thing and read it as town-scum rather than scum-town. my bad. he's not scummy for that, but I'm curious as to why he included zach. the reasoning seems weak, and it could come across as trying to fake his reads a little. not sure who is worse out of him and ferret, however.

mastin can preach to the high heavens about his scum reads but until he reads the game and realises that I have legitimately explained my reasons for voting monkey & have since decided to sheep nero on an angel read then his read on me is going to be wrong.

pidgey seems town from his posting. #2487 in particular.

what's the VC look like?

[Nero Cain]

Darthe (6)- xMALCOLMx, Desperado, Ravenpaw, Nero Cain, MonkeyMan576, ferretlover
ferretlover (5)- Amethyst Actor, penguin_alien, The Goat, Mutleyddmc, Darthe


MonkeyMan576 (1)- Mac
ArcAngel9 (1)- PeregrineV
Desperado (2)- ArcAngel9
penguin_alien (2)- mastin2, Pidgey
xMALCOLMx (1)- Syryana

Not voting (1)-Rubicon

[mastin2]

What on earth leads you to believe that you can accomplish this?

Because I'm

the god-damned Batman

Mastin. That's what you lacked before. Desperado, be glad. I'm trying to save your ass because given the choice between ferret-Darthe and Despo-Darthe, I'm choosing Despo-Darthe. And between Darthe and you, might even go with you, 'cause while I can see Darthe as maybe scum, I've got a really strong gut feeling he's town. Whereas with you, you're dead null, and that is dangerous. Especially at this stage in the game. (Eventually, null is tantamount to "automatic scumread". It was one of the things which made me reinvigorate my scumread on BOTH Yates AND mykonian in Harry Potter. They had dropped out of my radar and stayed there for half the game, and when I realized it...BAM, they came back as scumreads.)

Seriously, guys. We can do it, but you need to believe in me. Fuck "the deadline is close" lynches on players. Seriously, screw them to hell. I'm 95% certain ferret is town, and my gut townread on Darthe is probably the strongest gut townread I've ever gotten on a player, so until I've got the chance to analyze it logically (which I cannot do in the limited timeframe, LEAST of all with people shouting "LYNCH DARTHE LYNCH DARTHE LYNCH DARTHE!"), he's a good 93-94% town to me, because goddammit, I'm trusting my gut on this one.


Gods. I feel like this town is full of adolescent children in need of micromanagement, who have had their parents leave on vacation and have had free reign to be disobedient to everything their parents normally enforce.

But not to worry. Uncle Mastin is here, to help keep you from destroying yourselves.

And Uncle Mastin is saying, STOP LYNCHING DARTHE AND HELP ME LYNCH ACTUAL SCUM.

[mastin2]

Seriously, guys. Have some faith in me.

What you lacked before is the cohesion I'm offering you. Too many people pulling in different directions and insisting on doing things which are anti-town based off of their own silly superstitions. I'm not going to arrogantly say that I've got all the scum, or that I'll be dead in this game rather quickly via one scum faction or another recognizing me as a threat. But, well, chances are quite high that I'm on the right track to catch scum, and that the scum recognize me as a threat.

So this could be my only chance to make damn sure the town can win. Stop mislynching people and help me.

[Desperado]

I asked a lot more than just that one question Mastin.

And I frankly don't give a damn if you're gonna choose me in some hypothetical Darthe-Desperado dichotomy that doesn't even exist right now. Am I supposed to feel threatened or something? You admit you haven't read the game but me being a "dead null read" is "dangerous?" Stop pretending you're in a position of authority and start actually assuming one, because all I'm getting from you is empty rhetoric about how bad we all are right now, and the last thing it can be described as is endearing.

[Desperado]

You aren't even pushing a case on penguin, or Mac.

I gave you a chance to explain to me why you think they're scum, and you deliberately avoided doing so in favor of yelling at us some more.

So if you're actually interested in accomplishing what you are proposing, you could start by answering the questions that you clipped out of 2526.

[Nexus]

Votecount 2.10:

Darthe (6)-

xMALCOLMx, Desperado, Ravenpaw, Nero Cain, MonkeyMan576, ferretlover

ferretlover (5)-

Amethyst Actor, penguin_alien, The Goat, Mutleyddmc, Darthe

penguin_alien (2)-

mastin2, Pidgey

MonkeyMan576 (1)-

Mac

ArcAngel9 (1)-

PeregrineV

Desperado (1)-

ArcAngel9

xMALCOLMx (1)-

Syryana

Not voting (1)-

Rubicon

With 18 alive, it takes 9 to lynch. Day 2 will end at 8PM BST on Saturday 8th June 2013.

xMALCOLMx is v/la until Monday

[Nero Cain]

Stop mislynching people and help me.

We haven't mislynched anyone.

[Nero Cain]

Mastin, why do you think Darthe would do what he did?

[mastin2]

Stop mislynching people and help me.

We haven't mislynched anyone.

But you're about to.

Seriously. I can see one or two members of the Darthe wagon being scum, and the counterwagon on ferret has two of my stronger scumreads on it. And then we have five dead votes which could be channeled elsewhere.

Yes, I haven't read the game. Yes, that means I am not as much in the know as players who have. Yes, that means that my certainty is not what it could be. But I have gotten to be very damn good at reading people on the fly, so to speak. I can't build a case on Penguin or Mac or The Goat beyond what I've stated as my reasons for finding them scum, because those reasons are all I've read from them.

But this is a near-guarantee. Darthe won't flip scum, ferret definitely won't flip scum, and we need a better lynch candidate than either of them.

My current proposition is for it to be penguin_alien, whose posting is incredibly artificial and highly mechanical (it is exactly the same penguin I've seen as scum, and is NOT the penguin I remember seeing as town, so throw in meta to the case), whose posts are just bad, have bad content, a bad vote, and replaced into a scummy-as-hell slot.

But despite how much evidence there is against penguin, I am open to other players. Just not Darthe or ferret.

[mastin2]

Mastin, why do you think Darthe would do what he did?

Call his replacement town?

Quite bluntly, I see that as absolutely null. I don't see why he wouldn't do it as town, I don't see why he would do it as scum, I don't see why he'd do it as town, I don't see why he wouldn't do it as scum, I don't see any reason one way or the other for him to do it as one alignment or the other.

If you instead make a case off of the content in his posts? Yeah, I'll listen to that, since some of his posts I've seen could be

potentially

scummy. (Potentially. Not "are scummy".

Could

be scummy.) If you make a case off of that thing which is far more likely to just be an indication of a personality trait? (Heck, I think he mighta done it in Street Racers as town, when he talked about his predecessor. Probably misremembering, though.) I'm not seeing it.

And this seems to be the blunt of the case about him. "He talked about his predecessor and said town!" That's what you're presenting. You might not think that's all there is to your case. But that's all I'm hearing of it, and quite frankly, I'm tuning it out because it reeks of BS. (Primarily town-spewn BS, but BS all the same. )

[Nero Cain]

No, the point is he actually cared how Zach was perceived.

[mastin2]

And skimming Darthe's iso, I really don't see much of a problem.

Yes. I see

potential

scummy stuff. But I also see a

lot

of undoubtedly (well, undoubtedly-from-the-perspective-of-iso, at least. Never know 'bout in-context) town stuff present. That's telling me he's town.

I don't get this wagon at all. It reeks of BS, and largely-scumdriven BS at that.

[mastin2]

No, the point is he actually cared how Zach was perceived.

Cared that his replacement was called town. Same thing, different wording, point stands; this aint a case.

And if it is, it's not one worth listening to.

Seriously, stop lynching Darthe. Help me, Nero. You've got many of my scumreads. Help me lynch them. I won't lead you astray.

[Desperado]

Can you link me to some penguinscum games?

And I largely agree with you about darthe, I'm just more sure on monkey town. Did you ever comment on my arc case? This is not her town game. Can we compromise there?

[Nero Cain]

no one ever called Zack town that I can remember. If anything, he was a null read. I honestly cannot see a guy that supposedly is town say "hey guys, Nero was seen as more town than my slot so I'm going to make note of that in my list. Just FFS!!!

[penguin_alien]

Probably faster for me to give you the links: Open 459 (Mafia), Open 468 (SK), Micro 122 (Mafia), Newbie 1304 (Mafia), Street Racers (Mafia)

I think I overlapped with mastin2 in Street Racers, although we weren't alive at the same time. The only game I recall being in with mastin2 where we interacted was Mini 1413 (Town)

[Amethyst Actor]

VOTE: Penguin

Mastin, you got my vote

[Darthe]

I love the confidence mastin has in me, but it bugs me that I am "possibly the strongest gut town read he has ever got" yet he would rather lynch me than ferret.. Idk.

Amethyst is pinging me with the pop in and jive type of play.

I would lynch Penguin, but Mac moreso. Mastin is dead wrong on Despo.

[Mac]

Where has your read on me came from?

Also idk about mastin on penguin at the moment, he went after him hard in the Mini game penguin linked where mastin was scum and penguin was town.

[mastin2]

I love the confidence mastin has in me, but it bugs me that I am "possibly the strongest gut town read he has ever got" yet he would rather lynch me than ferret.. Idk.

Amethyst is pinging me with the pop in and jive type of play.

I would lynch Penguin, but Mac moreso. Mastin is dead wrong on Despo.

You're my strongest gut townread ever, yes, but my read on ferret isn't gut. It's logic. It's painfully,

painfully

obvious that ferret's town off of his posting; I can quote almost any post and show you the towniness therein.

And by the nature of my read, of

course

I'm dead-wrong on Despo. There's no such thing as a dead-null alignment in a game. Desperado has an alignment, and I haven't managed to make a read one way or the other.

And, Darthe. If you don't want yourself to be lynched, you should be on Penguin. We can maybe jump to Mac, yes, but I don't think that has as much support, and I feel weaker about that read anyway.