Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[Iecerint]

OK, I've reread through page 18.

Right now I am probably most suspicious of Nero, GCBC, and maybe ThAd. I think Nero is scummy for his sidelines-y approach to most of the wagons he's pushed this game. Town can sometimes do this via consensus-seeking play among town-reads, but I don't get the sense that Nero Cain has uniformly done this with players he thinks are town. I think GCBC is scummy for a) disconnect between his voting/rhetoric/plain scum reads (e.g., voting SoO, then going into detail about AmrunScum) b) connections to Nero Cain (e.g., distancing from Nero Cain in 131 before voting SoO despite having previous suspicion of Nero Cain; Nero awkwardly calls out GCBC lurking). ThAd hasn't really done much so far, but what he's done has been background milkwagon cheerleading.

I'll read the rest tomorrow. If someone can explain the Ghostlin/Beli interaction on page 13, that would be helpful.

Spoiler:

Demon is town as of #31

Don't understand GCBC sarcasm tags 37.

Selkies is scummy in 39. I think my town read on Selkies is due to -f stuff later on IIRC, though.

Kinda surprised Demon still finds Matt scummy in #53. Just isn't the vibe I had between them.

The number of players who are parroting about MattP's VT stuff is annoying. Some of these have flipped town, though, SO.

Selkies-Demon are town at 96

Nero is rubbing me the wrong way a little (e.g., kinda Renfield-y).

~beer drinking starts hereish~

Initial milkshake wagon:

milkshake 6 (MattP, Nero Cain, Ghostlin, Demon, Selkies, SoO)

Nero Cain looks like the scum to me.

Milkshake/MM think Ghostlin is scummy.

GCBC thinks SoO is scummy despite already being suspicious of Nero Cain (?????). (131)

Nero leaves milkwagon, ThAdmiral joins it:

milkshake 6 (MattP, Ghostlin, Demon, Selkies, sword_of_omens, ThAdmiral)

Amrun thinks Ghostlin is scummy in her catchup post, especially if milkshake is town (181). I think she might change her mind about this in the future after Ghostlin's breadloaves, though.

194 makes me think Amrun is town.

ThAd is scummy in 204 (repeats old content, attacks a non-problematic milkshake vote, possibly a prod dodge or else his recent memory posts have been fluffy, etc).

Nero Cain wants to lynch Selkies with Amrun (not a crazy reason), but I don't actually remember Nero Cain thinking Selkies was scummy before this point (208).

Nero Cain highlights GCBC lurking (213).

MM/MD points out above, but then wants to vote Ghost/Demon/SoO... (215)? SoO points out the same (216).

Nero's 251 is kinda town.

ThAd posts to talk about kind of wanting to vote Nero Cain or Selkies, but he's weirdly apologetic/not sure (266).

GCBC likes his SoO vote, but then makes a post about Amrun being scum (299).

There's a big Ghostlin/Belisarius interaction on page 13. I've read it 3 times and don't understand it. I would like to because I don't really have a read on Beli. Maybe someone else can figure out what's going on.

GCBC is apparently a hydra...but the previous posts have all been from one head (???), so I guess it doesn't affect my reads (312).

MM attributes vote for Demon to HD, but IIRC the slot has thought Demon was scummy all game (318).

Stuff like Amrun's 391-392 makes her probably-town. EDIT: But all this Ghostlin-Scum stuff makes it really weird that she would be so sure that a doctor would protect Ghostlin....

OK, nevermind (cf., 409). This is that post I was remembering...

GCBC is in fantasy-world in 422. Amrun has just finished talking about all her anti-Ghostlin stuff being made-up. EDIT: OK, nevermind, I guess her earliest anti-Ghostlin stuff wasn't made-up, pre-crumbs (429).

[Ms Marangal]

So saying he's a town pr isn't enough to think he's soft claiming?

He didn't say he was a PR, he just bolded the words while addressing Matt. I don't see how bolding those words = a PR claim in the slightest

[Selkies]

So saying he's a town pr isn't enough to think he's soft claiming?

He didn't say he was a PR, he just bolded the words while addressing Matt. I don't see how bolding those words = a PR claim in the slightest

It's a more eloquent breadcrumb than some I've seen. orcinus certainly saw it.

- f

[Amrun]

It was clear enough of a soft claim to derail a whole wagon on him...

[GoodCop_BadCop]

Just a few additional comments on top of what the other head covered...

heheh...ThAd's not scum...

Vote: Amrun

Pretty sure he is scum actually... care to add any backing to your claim?

Before I touch on your "findings"

Iecerint

, I would like to ask you a question... where were you before the Meet that caused your unintentional hammer? I am noticing a 180 degree shift in play-style coming from you.

To quickly address your points:

If you recall SOO during most of the day (and you should) he kinda wasn't around much, so after getting my scum-read and voting for him I had the option of either sitting on my hands waiting for him to show up so I could get a better read on him, or make use of my time and scum-hunt elsewhere. It's not exactly what I would call a disconnect.

I don't really understand the connection you have made between Cain and myself, but if you say its there...

So here is what I don't get...

I don't have as much of a read on players I didn't directly interact with much yesterday because

my Balto activity

was pretty limited to ctrl+f iec-ing every other day or so.

I don't have a strong memory of the role of every player in every event because I

only had like 10 minutes with the game

every few days, hence the need for a reread.

I am much more comfortable with my town reads than any scum reads this game so far. I will need to reread D1 to convert my "X event was weird"

memories into reads post-flip.

You have two stated reasons for doing a re-read. One being that you were occupied with Balto. The second being that you needed to re-evaluate after seeing role-flips. Both of which are confusing to me considering that Balto began around post #582ish and your re-read looks to have started from post #31? If its because you are doing a re-eval post role-flip... why does it look like your wagon-analysis on milk is more of an after-thought than the main point of your re-read?

None of your re-read conclusions seem to have any connection to the post-flips of Matt, Milk, and Ghost. For example, all of your stated reasons that you find me scummy have to do with posts made with people currently living, or actions taken in general. While you did have Nero "the" scum on the initial wagon, he is missing from your second wagon analysis without any mention of the hop-off, how or why it could be scum-motivated. Also your ThAd "maybe" scum read was the only one that could be remotely tied to post-flip information with the Milk-lynch-cheerleading but was rather weak.

IIRC, you had SOO as scum for most of Day 1, and now he is in your town-pile. What made you change your mind?

I should also point out that my read on SOO has shifted to more town due to Selkes' recommendation to look at SOO's town game. Most of what I found to be scummy with his play, I saw in the meta of him there. What I couldn't find was any game that he played in as scum on the site..., but I am now leaning toward more town.

~GC

[Iecerint]

I was at a family reunion before Balto during which I was V/LA, so my disrupted period is longer than just Balto. I am reading again from the beginning of the game.

SoO is his town self, which I'm basing mostly off of a FFVI game I played with him some time ago. It took me awhile to be sure about this because I thought there were some discrepancies in how he treated other players that could indicate irrationality, but it was all dealt with D1.

Nero stuck out from the wagon given the flips so far, and your calling him out at length in the next post and subsequently voting SoO solidified the sketchiness feelings.

My spoilered comments are intended mostly as notes to me to remind me of things that seem odd to me. They are not intended to be a rhetorical document, though they might help people to understand where I'm coming from. If you think I missed context somewhere or want clarification or whatever, please clarify/specify.

What is your read on Nero?

[ThAdmiral]

Commuters haven't any way of telling if they've been targeted. What's the flavour name?

Matrim Cauthon. My commute power is "foxhead medallion". I was told it grew cold against my chest last night, which is how I know I was targeted by at least one one power ability. I'm sure the person who targeted me knows I am telling the truth.

@ThAd, that's convenient...
setting it up in your first post of the day, even...
let me guess...MsM doc'd you, right? Of course she did...

I don't know.

What i want to know is why you felt the need to share that part of it considering there were 2 kills last night?
why not just leave it at "i'm a commuter and i tried to draw the NK?" There's no real reason to bring up that last bit..especially with your first post...you know people are going to ask how you know you were targetted...
So why claim now?

I always planned on claiming first thing today. Other than anything else I thought it might help explain my play yesterday, and why I chose not to claim.

Even if both of those things were true, a commuter and a doctor won't be existing in the same small set up --

and as much as Thad's play had been totally baffling, it's been so baffling that I can believe he was just mangling a commuter role

.

Now you are thinking along the right lines.

Let’s talk Thad here, folks.

Buddies the hell out ghost day one.

Claims way frigging early, claiming generic power role.

Tries to justify why he wasn’t night killed!

Scumslip! Town never ever ever EVER does this.

wanna bet $5?
Anyway ghost was obv town, if no one else saw that it ain't my fault.

heheh...ThAd's not scum...

Good good.

I believe ThAd , but this makes a doctor extremely unlikely in this set up and I don't understand why more votes aren't there. Thad, how do you know you were targeted, because you lost your ability?

Answered above.

Why would my role get a flavour name, but ThAd's gets a generic name? It wouldn't.

Admiral Delenda Est, people.

Nope, Admiral prospera est.

He has concluded that I am the SK and that I should be

lunched

because of it

Mmmm, delicious amrun meat.

ThAd hasn't really done much so far, but what he's done has been background milkwagon cheerleading.

It's true I've basically been coasting this game. Tbh I've spread myself a little thin, but I should have enough time to be better from here on in.

[Amrun]

ThAd, I'm not impressed. That post lacks reads and doesn't comment on Marangal at all.

[Selkies]

hi

been talking with fery

marangal, if you're a dreamwalker, how the hell did you not catch ghostlin's ridiculously overt crumbs

[Neroball]

Nero, why do you think I'm sk?

If Ghostlin flips red, Selkies is town. Period.

Mainly this. I mean, I'm town so I had no reason to think there was another color other than red in this game so to me, this doesn't seem like a town comment.

+

Like I said 2 kills makes me think sk

+

your #1 suspect died. I could see SK playing like a vig.

+

you implying that Matt is a stupid kill.

I've seen scum try and fake a third party before so I don't really care which faction you flip.

It's obviously a non-vanilla game sooo.

So you think Matt's town vanilla role is actually a pr?

Selk is my 2nd biggest scum read. Today FFery hasn't seemed like her normal aggressive self and ORC posted on this site 30 times while he was on "vacation" so this thread avoidance is really bothering me.

[Nero Cain]

Nero, why do you think I'm sk?

If Ghostlin flips red, Selkies is town. Period.

Mainly this. I mean, I'm town so I had no reason to think there was another color other than red in this game so to me, this doesn't seem like a town comment.

+

Like I said 2 kills makes me think sk

+

your #1 suspect died. I could see SK playing like a vig.

+

you implying that Matt is a stupid kill.

I've seen scum try and fake a third party before so I don't really care which faction you flip.

It's obviously a non-vanilla game sooo.

So you think Matt's town vanilla role is actually a pr?

Selk is my 2nd biggest scum read. Today FFery hasn't seemed like her normal aggressive self and ORC posted on this site 30 times while he was on "vacation" so this thread avoidance is really bothering me.

[Selkies]

Selk is my 2nd biggest scum read. Today FFery hasn't seemed like her normal aggressive self and ORC posted on this site 30 times while he was on "vacation" so this thread avoidance is really bothering me.

I've in data acquistion mode. There is a lot coming to light today. While Orc is on vacation I'll be mostly the one posting in this game. His solo games he'll have to manage on his own.

Now that Orcinus and I have touched bases, I can proceed with something.

We received an object last night. I have reason to think that someone sent it to us rather than it being a game mechanics thing. Anyone want to step up and claim this?

- f

[Amrun]

The color thing is retarded. I've addressed it before so I'll spare it now. Also I didn't say Matt was a stupid kill... Odd,maybe, given his inactivity. I have actually explicitly said he makes the most sense as a mafia kill.

The main question is if you ARE convinced I'm the sk, why the fuck are you advocating my lynch on day 2? Mafia would be far more important to town.

Also is Matt's role vanilla? I didn't even notice. :/ I'll look after this but I assumed that vts were more like what Ghostlin was. I'm obviously neither of these things soooooo.

[Belisarius]

It's still definitely a PR-

heavy

game with very few vanilla roles.

If there is a SK, 531 makes me think Demon is the most likely candidate -- Vig is always a safe claim for a SK.

@ThAd: The foxhead would explain knowing you've been targeted, but there's nothing commuter-ish about Mat. He couldn't channel, so no Travelling, and he couldn't Dream, which is functionally equivalent to commuting + a splash of danger. Plus, the existence of the foxhead doesn't explain the role name of commuter -- My role name is One-Shot Dreamwalker but the ability is called In The Flesh (This is the only way that Gaul entered the Dream in AMoL) -- there would still be a flavoured role name in addition to the mention of the foxhead.

I don't in the least bit doubt that there would be an addition to the standard role since Ghostlin was a Channeler Dreamwalker and MM's claiming Channeler Doctor with a flavour name that makes sense -- Nynaeve was obsessed with healing with and without the One Power. This, incidentally, is why I believe MM's claim -- someone who hasn't read the series wouldn't have been able to provide a claim that makes that much sense, and why the hell would she claim not to have read the series if she had?

The scum's factional kill wouldn't have anything to do with the One Power even in a game like this where the flavour heavily influences the mechanics, as there were lots of threats in the series who didn't channel -- Padan Fain and Luc/Isam being prime examples.

[Amrun]

You are aware that almost every single theme game on this site provides scum with fully flavored fake claims, are you not? Precisely so that people cannot be cleared with flavor.

ThAd, though, claim your ability "name," because I have one as well.

Balance wise, it makes no sense at all for a doctor to exist in this set up, and the way the claim came (early, and piecemeal) is fairly typical for a scum claim. And once again, the kills make no sense if scum and/or sk was operating under the assumption of an actual doctor being in the game.

[Belisarius]

I've never had a mod PM me and say "Hey, Beliscum, here are some fake claims you can use and flavour to go with them." I've always been on my own, as it should be. If I were playing a themed game with a theme I was unfamiliar with, I'd ask my scumbuddy/scumbuddies for advice.

MM's claim -- and the assertion that she's never read WoT -- came on D1. While a flavour-informed scumbuddy could have prepped her on N0, N0 tends to be too short for that kind of strategisation. I see no reason to disbelieve that she's unfamiliar with the theme, and no reason to believe that someone who is unfamiliar with the theme could possibly have come up with such apposite flavour to match a claim.

[Nero Cain]

yea, belli might be scum here. Fake claims for theme games are extremely common.

[Nero Cain]

The color thing is retarded

*shrugz* Maybe so. Both alignments say stupid things though and it was my initial gut reaction. Both Selk and GCBC thought it was a good enough question that you should answer it. Maybe one of those two were scum egging me on, idk.

The main question is if you ARE convinced I'm the sk, why the fuck are you advocating my lynch on day 2? Mafia would be far more important to town.

Scum is scum. I also think getting rid of an extra nightkill is a very good reason to kill the SK unless said SK is offering to be leashed but that proposition still scares me 'cause these aren't nomralish roles.

[Belisarius]

yea, belli might be scum here. Fake claims for theme games are extremely common.

Fake claims for

all

games are extremely common. What the christ does that have to do with anything?

The theme part is just what makes MM's claim believable and ThAd's claim horseshit.

If you think I'm scum, why aren't you voting me?

[Nero Cain]

b/c I'm voting other scum you kooky Canuk.

[Nero Cain]

"I've never had a mod PM me and say "Hey, Beliscum, here are some fake claims you can use and flavour to go with them.""

This is what makes me think scum on you b/c I can't think of a theme game that didn't have safe claims. I also nailed IAI scum in some WWE mafia game for saying the same thing but I do need to look through your games list and see if you've ever played a theme game before.

[Nero Cain]

hrmmm...looks like Belli has no theme games so he may just not know what he's talking about.

[Belisarius]

I am/was in Clue Master; it's ongoing, but I've flipped.
I was also in chkflip's DBZ mafia as Hamlet (Hydra with fuzzybutternut) -- a theme game where I had no knowledge of the theme, and I was scum.

[Belisarius]

EBWOP: Clue Master
DBZ

[ThAdmiral]

ThAd, I'm not impressed. That post lacks reads and doesn't comment on Marangal at all.

Yeah I'll get to reads. Haven't had a lot of time recently and I figured the important thing was to clear up any questions about my claim.
Marangal mainly was asking questions I had already answered. Is there anything else you wanted me to comment on more specifically about mm?

@ThAd: The foxhead would explain knowing you've been targeted, but there's nothing commuter-ish about Mat. He couldn't channel, so no Travelling, and he couldn't Dream, which is functionally equivalent to commuting + a splash of danger. Plus, the existence of the foxhead doesn't explain the role name of commuter -- My role name is One-Shot Dreamwalker but the ability is called In The Flesh (This is the only way that Gaul entered the Dream in AMoL) -- there would still be a flavoured role name in addition to the mention of the foxhead.

The foxhead medallion protects me, which is the "commuter" effect. I don't know why he chose to call me modified commuter and not something else like "self-protecting medallion guy", but that is between you and cephrir.

ThAd, though, claim your ability "name," because I have one as well.

I did. Foxhead medallion.