League of Legends (Old)

[Ankamius]

Mana+Tank Urgot honestly isn't any better than any other build.

[Staeg]

You guys can all go suck a fat one

[notscience]

That's nice.

[PJ.]

You're kidding. Olaf, isn't op, but he's definitely not bad. Just a few months ago, he was the champ everyone was playing.

Yeah Olaf was great, then they nerfed him(brandi's post) and all his items(Bub's post), so now he's the worst champ(cephrir's post).

But yeah Urgot and Karma suck too. So does Syndra. Rengar is fucking great though.

[notscience]

*shudders* Rengar.

[dramonic]

You know, the whole "this champ sucks" argument is pretty moot at 98% of people's ELO

[DeathRowKitty]

Eh, depends how much a champion sucks and in what way.

[PJ.]

You know, the whole "this champ sucks" argument is pretty moot at 98% of people's ELO

Untrue. Please say more wrong things.

[dramonic]

Eh, depends how much a champion sucks and in what way.

You know, the whole "this champ sucks" argument is pretty moot at 98% of people's ELO

Untrue. Please say more wrong things.

I would, but I dont want to steal your thunder.

[notscience]

So dramonic, you're saying Urgot and Olaf are good?

[dramonic]

I'm saying no champion is so weak that you cant make a significant difference in the gamestate with them at most people's ELO.

[Cephrir]

I mean Olaf's win rate is awful at every elo

Sure it's possible to be good with him but why not be good with a better champion

[Ankamius]

Ask ChronoPie that.

[pickemgenius]

urgot isnt trash he just needs a comp built around him. his niche is too small.

[DeathRowKitty]

His nipple is too small.

[notscience]

So, I played a game as solo top nid v Riven

I ended 0-2, because my other lanes fed like hell. I got to level 18 before I lost my first turret, which was only lost because of a 3v1. I'm mad. :L I had held that lane really well.

[PJ.]

You know, the whole "this champ sucks" argument is pretty moot at 98% of people's ELO

Untrue. Please say more wrong things.

Okay because Dramonic is an incredibly nice guy(but also incredibly wrong) I'm going to explain this. So, your statement is at 98% of People's ELO, you can play any champ you want because everyone is bad. So I'm assuming this means that the top 2% everyone is incredibly skilled so having a champion with a higher power curve is more important. Exhibit A would be Doublelift using Urgot to great success in the Summer Promotion Tournament and I believe he also did well with him at All-Star weekend. The point I want to make using this information is, if you are more mechanically skilled than your opponent the more freedom you have to use whatever champion you want(the bigger the gap the more true the statement) and that is easier to come across at lower elo. The lower skill level you go the more variance there is due to mistakes, but that also applies to the player who is using the champ. If you have a 700 player on Urgot vs a 700 player on Miss Fortune, the Miss fortune should win by virtue of being a champion that has more powerful tools given she doesn't do anything impressively bad. And that should go all the way up(and down) the line where it is two equal skill level players. The problem with this is twofold, you often aren't playing someone that is your skill level and the lower you go down the line the more of a chance the player with the advantage does something impressively bad. Also there is the Great Equalizer Effect™ in bot lane, which is to say the guy with the worse champion has a support that can create kill chance better than the other support can save. If the Urgot has a Blitzcrank and the MF has a Soraka or something, that MF has a lot less room for mistakes. The lower in elo you go, the greater the effect this has. In 700 ELO, Blitzcrank is a mythical beast, because no one stands behind minions and people get caught out. You could probably win a Talon/Blitz lane if you really wanted in Bronze elo. So my point is, being able to run anything against anyone isn't a talent that is acquired at a certain ELO, but something that happens when there is a noticeable difference in mechanical skill between two players AND variance. While there is more variance at lower elo, the fact that both players are bad has a bigger effect. If you're playing someone equal or better than you as Urgot, there's a good chance you're gonna get whooped without the help of a little luck. The closer you are in skill to someone(or the further behind you are) the more you need that little bit extra help from picking something that is stronger.

That is why champion power level matters at all ELOs. One day, you're gonna play someone better than you and you're gonna get monkeystomped because you're Olaf/Urgot/whoever becomes UP next. Or your name is Doublelift and you do what you want.

[TehBrawlGuy]

It's like saying a dull butter knife is just as effective of a weapon as a gun, because Bruce Lee could kill someone with either. Yes, people with enough skill can do anything and be k. (like Doublelift, as Panz brought up) This is because they can win while handicapping themselves - and make no mistake, by picking a UP champ, that's exactly what you're doing.

In league especially, this makes a huge difference. You cannot just win lane/jungle/whatever by a little and be as okay as if you had stomped them, like you can in 1v1 games. You need to win by as large of a margin as is possible. Going 3-0 instead of 5-0 could lose you a game.

[PJ.]

Oh, and one more word on why Olaf sucks and is only getting worse: Aatrox.

He has cc/gap closer, has sustain, has good steroids, hard to kill, and has a revive. He essentially does Olaf's job but way better. So add another guy to list of "guys who do Olaf's job better than olaf"

This can also feed into the point with Dramonic. If a champ has other people that do the exact same thing as them but better, you are automatically playing below the level you would be if you had just played the other champion, so that give the other guy an edge. This is seriously even visible when comparing Supports. One guy has a Karma and other guy has a Janna, the Janna bot-lane should win by virtue of Janna being a much better champ.

[JDodge]

we're baaaaaaaaaack

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Adding to the "worst champion in the league" debate: Sion.

Fucking trashcan that guy is.

[Rikablu]

Sion's kit is fragmented. You get two diverse build paths from it, but only the AP path is fairly viable, due to the difficulty of AD Sion surviving the laning phase with any respectable amount of farm.

[DeathRowKitty]

An AP Sion with a lot of farm still does nothing past 20 minutes.

[Glork]

Sion is like at the top of Riot's "needs a rework next" list. Him and Heimer.

[Rikablu]

An AP Sion with a lot of farm still does nothing past 20 minutes.

What, a Giant's Belt worth of free HP, an additional shield, single-targeted CC, and splash healing is nothing?
Even if you don't pop the shield for damage like you're supposed to, you're capable of initiating fights as a magetank. That should allow an offensive jungler the window to jump for a squishy.