Newbie 1381 Oakhaven is Overrun Game Over

[jmo16mla]

Wait, he is that slots replacement? Hahaha! This is great. That slot is scum.

[Malakittens]

JMO stop teaching the newbies that tunneling is a good thing because it's not.

"That sounds like scum" What parts sound like scum?
"VC thing" Do you realize this is a null tell right? You're trying to paint a scum tell that's not really there.

I agree with HoneyBeeeeeee.

[jmo16mla]

I'm not tunneling!?!?! I think he is scum. He needs to be lynched.

[Malakittens]

You

are

tunneling. Who else do you think is scum?

Also please point to me where asking about a VC is a scum-tell. KGO.

(ps my smiley has a link - you all should click it)

[Greywing]

First of all, Talah, stop the intentional misspelling of my name in an attempt to insult me. I've treated you with respect throughout this game, and I expect the same in return. Thank you.

And with that introduction, Gen_Wolf has just become my second biggest scum read. I feel like he's deliberately picked the three people who have generated the most suspicion among the playerlist and gave them scumreads in an attempt to look more Town.

I also hate his "admitting to scum" question to Honey. Looks like a way of trying to set up a future wagon against a player who's been very pro-Town thus far, and is generally seen as such.

@Honey: I've reread Tybalt and I can see your case on him. I'll settle for his lynch if it comes down to it, but I'd rather see Talah or Wolf die first. Barring something drastic, I'm not open to anybody else today.

[talah]

Greywing, what's your opinion of JMO?

[Greywing]

I already gave my reads, but ok, I'll bite.

I don't know. Could potentially be scum, but he's not among my bigger scumreads.

[talah]

I just don't get your reads reasons.

Everyone else who has given reads has been asked 'why' they're reading in that way. You seem content just to slap a read down without any reasoning. 'Could potentially be scum' is not the point. Why he could potentially be scum, is.

Why do you think JMO could potentially be scum, then?

[Greywing]

I know I'm Town, and I have Town reads on three other players. Everyone else is potentially scum.

My point is, I don't know. He could be scum, he could be Town.

[Hyperion]

Hi guys. I'm replacing Fropome.
I just got home from work, so I am going to wait until tomorrow morning to catch up since we have a few days until lynch.

[Gen_Wolf]

What's so "not defensible" about greywing's reads, talah? Luigi's early posts were bad and he said that he only suspected mothrax on gut reasons. The mala thing he changed his mind on and that WASN'T a random vote. Otherwise I wouldn't have voted him. His questions are at least useful and he's picking up on posts which should be questioned. So while I find your sharp banter amusing, I'm not getting what your case is against him. Instead you should look over tybalt and maybe vote him.

Jmo I just don't get you. I feel like you're just testing my patience.

Are you admitting your scum?; Don't really see why you'd openly tell people to question whether your town or not town?

*roll eyes* yes, that is

exactly

what I was doing.
Go back and read again. Talah called me a strong town read, and there's really no good reason for it. When people put strong town reads on me I get suspicious, and I need to know why.

Ya it was a rhetorical question. It is just similar to how mothrax approached the easy lynch position (post 161), just not a good thing to say in my opinion thus I bought it up.

Greywing - Your reads are bizarre, voting as well.

No. This is not scummy. Just because you have a town read on mothrax and he has a bad feeling about mothrax does not make him scummy. You are wrong.

Fairplay, but his lack of reasoning is becoming somewhat frustrating.

Jmo only has one vote on him from tybalt.

That sounds like scum.

Great analysis.

Classic JMO. More fluff.

I'm not tunneling!?!?! I think he is scum. He needs to be lynched.

You are tunneling. You have added nothing of substance. When I joined the game I at least gave you the courtesy of reading over everything and then giving my opinions, of which you were the scummiest. You on the other hand have made excuses, fluffed about and just accused this slot of being scum from the get go.

First of all, Talah, stop the intentional misspelling of my name in an attempt to insult me. I've treated you with respect throughout this game, and I expect the same in return. Thank you.

And with that introduction, Gen_Wolf has just become my second biggest scum read. I feel like he's deliberately picked the three people who have generated the most suspicion among the playerlist and gave them scumreads in an attempt to look more Town.

I also hate his "admitting to scum" question to Honey. Looks like a way of trying to set up a future wagon against a player who's been very pro-Town thus far, and is generally seen as such.

@Honey: I've reread Tybalt and I can see your case on him. I'll settle for his lynch if it comes down to it, but I'd rather see Talah or Wolf die first. Barring something drastic, I'm not open to anybody else today.

Greywing, I read through the game and developed my arguments for those 3 players to become the scummiest. If you would like to see an example by the end of the 4th page I had JMO as my biggest town read, by the end of page 8 is my #1 town read. I have given reasoning's for why these people are scum, unlike you.

As with the honey situation, I shouldn't have to explain myself twice but I will. It was a rhetorical question, as mothrax said you shouldnt admit your an easy lynch I don't think you should say what honey did, I am allowed that opinion.

I just don't get your reads reasons.

Everyone else who has given reads has been asked 'why' they're reading in that way. You seem content just to slap a read down without any reasoning. 'Could potentially be scum' is not the point. Why he could potentially be scum, is.

Why do you think JMO could potentially be scum, then?

Talah finally doing something productive for the game. Good stuff chap, I agree with you here!

I know I'm Town, and I have Town reads on three other players. Everyone else is potentially scum.

My point is, I don't know. He could be scum, he could be Town.

Greywing, i'm glad you know that your town but not one else knows that and for that reason you cannot just sit around saying I think 'xyz' is scum because I have a gut feeling. Get your shit together man. Give us reasons please, develop a case on someone and then present it, you signed up for the game so now play it properly.

[Gen_Wolf]

almost forgot,

Vote JMO

[talah]

Welcome to new blood!

@mothrax:

Hi. You haven't been saying much lately. Input?

@tybalt:

Thoughts on the accusations levelled at you?

@HB:

I did mention at the time the reason for my town read on you, let me add another: you didn't try and tell me what I shouldn't be doing, as a noob, but rather provided feedback on what you perceived. Yours is a very good example of a playstyle and you're not afraid to provide information, and therefore not afraid you're going to trip yourself up later. That's a huge town read to me. Enough of an ego boost? (That last does not need to be answered, btw.)

Regarding tybalt, I think he's faxing his answers in but hasn't been particularly afraid to put himself on the line when he does come out with a statement or two. Also don't understand why he'd try to bus JMO.

Grey's reads (up to the point where you asked) are indefensible because 1) at the time he voted Luigi he actually had zero analysis and very little content of his own. He was voting someone else for something he was doing. 2) His read on me is based not on reasoning, but on a statement of fact without bothering to say why me throwing my vote around is a "bad thing". 3) The mothrax, and all other votes, either have 'gut feel' or simply no reasoning at all. That's unhelpful at best, scum-tactics at worst.

@JMO:

I voted Grey because I don't need any more convincing that you're Mafia. You can have it back in a bit by the looks.

@Grey:

JMO if anyone has reason to be indignant on some kind of personal level at recent posts by me. I'm not comfortable with reads based solely on gut feel. You should try to explain yourself better. I disagree with your immediate scum read on Wolf. He's putting himself out there at least and contradicted himself several times. This seems like an honest first read through.

@Mala:

What's your dilemma?

@Gen_Wolf:

I pursued the Mala case because I wanted information. It's no good gently placing a vote on someone to see how they'll react. This is the one case so far where I've felt slightly uncomfortable about being agressive. There are better ways.

You also took the 'Your wish is granted --> Vote' post well out of context. My vote is Grey's fair payment for repeatedly avoiding stating an opinion on JMO.

Also your scum vibe on me (apart from being wrong) almost exactly mimics Grey's rationale for voting me. You're basically voting Luigi. The problem with that is, Luigi's reasons are the only thing I can't possibly describe the truth of. Poison chalice much.

[Hyperion]

This isn't a catchup post, I just wanted to point this out

Mala, Mala, Mala. Thanks for being welcoming, but I think this is Freudian, despite (or perhaps because of) needing sleep, and your explanation doesn't make sense:

You already asked me this. I'm not, but

I don't want you to flip scum

looking for an easy target.

You've also placed the Finger of Suspicion (by stating as scum-read), on Luigi (now me).

Lastly, you've been LynchCounting:

Plus Luigi's vote puts Thane at L-2 and as I said it looks like an opportunist jump.

I don't know that Town would bother - it feels a bit wrong to me either way.

VOTE: Malakittens

PS. Preview's working now; must have been technical difficulties.

This is just a very bad "case" Town should definitely keep track of the vote counts. If you are town, and someone votes you, that doesnt mean they are scum and attacking someone because they voted for you (OMGUS) is generaly considered a scum tell. Also, don't put alot of stock in Freduian slips in a text based game. [/teaching]
By bad, I mean playstyle wise, not scummy, as alot of what talah has bee doing has struck me as newb-town-who-has-no-idea-what-they-are-doing.


So a quick skim through the thread has left me with some basic town reads:
Town: Mala, Honeybee and Talah


So now I'm gonna iso a few people, and then iso some more people later.

[Hyperion]

I see very little in Gen Wolf's posts that would help us catch scum. Its alot of "I agree" or "I disagree" on matters of gameplay that are more about mafia theory than the game at hand. Theres just not alot of substance. Also, he replaced THane, who was on the sidelines, and didnt do anything. I'm leaning scum, but would like to hear alot more from Gen Wolf since he just replaced in.

[Hyperion]

Isoing Honeybee and Talah give me the same feels as my original read through did. Honeybee puts alot of pressure and analyzes into each and every one of her posts. Talah on the other hand, clearly has no idea what he is doing, and looking at the way he is posting, I find it very hard for him to be scum because if he was I feel like he would be making more of an effort to scumhunt instead of posting plays. He is town, but is a liability do to his lack of knowledge/skill. I am 90% sure that both are town.

Will do more later.

[jmo16mla]

Will post tonight. Busy atm

[tybalt]

Honey bee, from what it looks like, you're giving JMO a wide berth.

ah HA. What a perfectly bad post to confirm my feelings that you are mafia.
First off I am positive you have not even tried to read this game or if you have you are searching for only your name. You came up with a nice little list earlier in this game to fall away from the "no reads suspicion", curbing the lurk radar with little comments, And now you've come to make a decision to jump off this bad wagon on thane and make a half baked case on jmo (who is also a popular candidate).

Everything you said about him you have absolutely no grounds coming from you. Trying to stay out of the spotlight? You realize for how mysterious he is about reads, He has 4X the amount of posts you have. Jmo is very provoking, has often defended his play as "the way he's always played" and despite efforts to get his reads has remained true to his nature. You on the other hand have remained very much outside of discussion, but still around to post an answer and make some off comment on talah.

2nd You called jmo town in that list, right next to me. So what exactly changed between post 78 and post 164? Surely not post 43. If it bothered you that much then you wouldn't have put a big town read on him that early. And I'm going to have agree with jmo that there is really nothing about this post that is avoiding conflict. If you actually were reading you would of noted that mala called it "bs" and jmo stood by his play in #52. Pretty obvious that you just picked this post at random to cite as evidence and hoping no one would look at it.

Lastly, you mention jmo's vote as hypocritical. REALLY. Because you've had such wonderful contributions so far. Jmo is at least generating some type of information and has been communicating on some level. You've only touched on one post really in the past 100, and that wasn't even anything enlightening. In other words your arguments are contrived and your play is too careful. I have not forgotten why I voted you and I'm not going to let my suspicions blow over because you avoid them.

In this entire post, you say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about how you think about jmo.

So, your first point. My reads post was in response to questions by greywing and mala. And for jmo, the fact that he was a "popular candidate" is weird. Was I not the only one voting jmo at the time? And how exactly was he a popular candidate? Furthermore, I said that I was making my observations based on only his iso, and I was not going to base it off of anyone else's opinions. Of course, I'm assuming that you won't believe me with your current mindset, so I won't push that particular case.

For your second point, does hypocrisy nullify any of the points I've made on jmo? Not only that, but how is defending by saying "oh, it's the way I've always played" valid or town?

And this is the first time I've looked at jmo. I've been vla for a chunk of this game, and the rest of it I haven't been focused on him until talah asked me to. My townreads came from general impressions on him, and upon further reading, that's the conclusion I came to.

Grey do you have any other reads other than Talah?

Scum-wise? Nobody that really sets off alarm bells like Talah does. I'm pretty confident that you are Town, and I'm getting Town reads on Mala and Fro. Besides the three of you, I can't say with confidence.

If I had to pick a second scum right now, I'd go with Moth. Something just seems off to me when I read his posts. My case here is predominantly gut though.

What. Is moth really your pick (and it's even based on gut)? Where did you pull that from- what posts seem off to you? This honestly sounds like something that you just pulled out of nowhere to answer a question.

[mothrax]

Responding to prod oops. Headed to bed. Will catch up tomorrow.

LOL that is twice now a player posted before I stated in game that I prodded them.... Rach

[Honey bee]

Hi Tybalt. First off how long will you be V/la?

In this entire post, you say ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about how you think about jmo.

Excuse me, that was a section about you, not him. And I stated my opinion on him at the end of the post.

Jmo I'm not convinced of and no one else has done anything worth lynching.

Right now the only reason I'd vote him is at deadline, because his town cred argument on gen looks more like an excuse for having his vote on thane for so long.

So, your first point. My reads post was in response to questions by greywing and mala. And for jmo, the fact that he was a "popular candidate" is weird. Was I not the only one voting jmo at the time?

So? You notice that Mothrax, Talah and Fropome all had a scum read on him at the time. You voted with everyone's feelings and the vote doesn't make sense coming from you.

Furthermore, I said that I was making my observations based on only his iso, and I was not going to base it off of anyone else's opinions.

I think I would prefer it if, ya know, YOU ACTUALLY READ THE GAME. You can't expect me to believe that. I'd rather you honestly sheep than try to make some claim that I could only accept on faith.

Of course, I'm assuming that you won't believe me with your current mindset, so I won't push that particular case.

Is this suppose to be some sort of insult? very nice.

For your second point, does hypocrisy nullify any of the points I've made on jmo? Not only that, but how is defending by saying "oh, it's the way I've always played" valid or town?

Wowzas. Okay their is something seriously wrong with you if you can accept behavior from another player as scummy when you admit that your own behavior is the same. Surely you can see the blatant error in that. and that second part is completely out of context. You're point was that he was trying to stay out of the spotlight, and my point is he's super stubborn and very much in the spotlight. "its the way I've always played" is something a stubborn person would say, not someone who's avoiding conflict.
and that quote has nothing to do with whether he's Town or not. I do not believe I've ever said that.

And this is the first time I've looked at jmo. I've been vla for a chunk of this game, and the rest of it I haven't been focused on him until talah asked me to. My townreads came from general impressions on him, and upon further reading, that's the conclusion I came to.

ohh look at the excuses. Are all those reads you did earlier general impressions? It would be nice to know what you think.

And maybe while your at it you could clarify the vote you made so long ago that me and mala voted you on.

*words aimed at me*

Spoiler:

@HB:

I did mention at the time the reason for my town read on you, let me add another: you didn't try and tell me what I shouldn't be doing, as a noob, but rather provided feedback on what you perceived. Yours is a very good example of a playstyle and you're not afraid to provide information, and therefore not afraid you're going to trip yourself up later. That's a huge town read to me. Enough of an ego boost? (That last does not need to be answered, btw.)

Regarding tybalt, I think he's faxing his answers in but hasn't been particularly afraid to put himself on the line when he does come out with a statement or two. Also don't understand why he'd try to bus JMO.

Grey's reads (up to the point where you asked) are indefensible because 1) at the time he voted Luigi he actually had zero analysis and very little content of his own. He was voting someone else for something he was doing. 2) His read on me is based not on reasoning, but on a statement of fact without bothering to say why me throwing my vote around is a "bad thing". 3) The mothrax, and all other votes, either have 'gut feel'
or simply no reasoning at all. That's unhelpful at best, scum-tactics at worst.

Okay. I'm getting a feeling of what you are picking up on and the way you see the game. I encourage you though to rethink about your reasons, because a lot of what your saying about greu doesn't come across. For example grey did vote mala before luigi, and even though I disagreed with his analysis, it's still analysis.
As for tybalt, I think you should remember that mafia really don't want attention, and that means you have to make statements to satisfy they're actually doing something. Does any of it come across as genuine to you? To me it doesn't, which is why I'm voting him.

@Mala: What do you think about jmo's and tybalt's recent posts? do you still have a scum read on the luigi/talah slot?

:D

*fluff* I like this song :3 *fluff*

[RachMarie]

Vote Count 1.04




Greywing (2) mothrax, talah
Gen_Wolf (1) Jmo16mla
tybalt (2) Honey bee, Malakittens
talah (1) Greywing
Jmo16mla (2 ) tybalt, Gen_Wolf

Not Voting

Hyperion



With 9 it takes 5 to lynch


Deadline is in (expired on 2013-06-19 14:24:49)

[talah]

Isoing Honeybee and Talah give me the same feels as my original read through did. Honeybee puts alot of pressure and analyzes into each and every one of her posts. Talah on the other hand, clearly has no idea what he is doing, and looking at the way he is posting, I find it very hard for him to be scum because if he was I feel like he would be making more of an effort to scumhunt instead of posting plays. He is town, but is a liability do to his lack of knowledge/skill. I am 90% sure that both are town.

Will do more later.

Zing. I know when to shut up. Oh no I don't.

Someone has to explain WIFOM properly to me sometime. I get the scenario, poisoner and poisonee, each with a cup of the poisoner's wine in front of them, poisonee's choice of which one to drink. Have seen it applied and explained in different ways to this however.

[talah]

Intent to L-2 JMO.

My parable was awesome. The theory derived from facts, not the other way round.

I can't think of any way a person would express they are less committed to a game, than having every single post they make, an obvious derivation of a post just slightly above. Who needs to read through everything and come to any conclusions about anything, at all. Why, ONLY TOWN.

I can't wait for the big reveal buddy.

UNVOTE:

[talah]

VOTE: JMO

Your intentions are extremely unclear. Everyone else has at least put themselves on the line.

[jmo16mla]

Because between work and school, I'm overloaded. You're voting me because I'm uncommitted?

Okay. So, in case I do get to L-1, it is proper to ask for me to claim my role. This is done to prevent town from lynching a PR.