In post 169, Honey bee wrote:Jmo I'm not convinced of and no one else has done anything worth lynching.
Right now the only reason I'd vote him is at deadline, because his town cred argument on gen looks more like an excuse for having his vote on thane for so long.
So besides me, no one else has done anything worth lynching? And jmo is a deadline lynch? You said talah was a deadline lynch.
In post 217, tybalt wrote: Of course, I'm assuming that you won't believe me with your current mindset, so I won't push that particular case.
Is this suppose to be some sort of insult? very nice.
I'm sorry if it came off that way. What I was saying is that since I am already your scum read, you would naturally be inclined to mistrust me, so when I claimed that my read wasn't influenced by others, I saw it as hopeless to push it because I have no proof.
In post 217, tybalt wrote:
And this is the first time I've looked at jmo. I've been vla for a chunk of this game, and the rest of it I haven't been focused on him until talah asked me to. My townreads came from general impressions on him, and upon further reading, that's the conclusion I came to.
ohh look at the excuses. Are all those reads you did earlier general impressions? It would be nice to know what you think.
And maybe while your at it you could clarify the vote you made so long ago that me and mala voted you on.
Please don't put words into my mouth, I merely said that I townread jmo based on gut, I have explained most of my other reads.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
Yeah, I changed my mind about Talah. I believe he's more of a dumb townie. His reasoning on jmo and Grey seems are more fleshed out and clearer now, and his early reads of Mala and Thane look more like paranoia for being a wagon. It doesn't look like an act, while jmo feels like he's playing stupid at the moment. I don't really get how he can be so clueless about a game when he has 60 (!) posts. And for all the questioning he's doing he's turning up nothing much about anyone's alignment. I'm not very confident, because this really seems like someone pushing their luck to see what they can get away with. I really would like him to stop tunneling and be more open, but so far that hasn't worked so I can't read anything past that.
Other than that I haven't seen anything I'd support a lynch. Grey's posts are good and gen_wolf looks okay to me. I see the sort of catch up posts that are mostly reaction rather than analysis too often, so I'm not going to hold that against him. Others I have investigated but nothings turned up, such as Mothrax, Hyperion, and Mala. I'd like Hyperion and Mothrax to post their thoughts before deadline comes, especially Hyperion since he never fully made a catch up post (or place down a vote for that matter). So yes, I can't support any other bandwagon so far.
What do you find about gut reads scummy though? I think they're okay so long as your vote isn't completely gut. It is at least something for future reference to see how consistent he is. Is jmo still scummy, or are you trying to pressure grey for now?
I will have to think about what you said though. The hypocrisy part is what really bothers me, though your other answers make sense to me. Your bandwagon doesn't appear to be happening, so I think I will have to compromise. :/ We have less than 4 days, and activity so far hasn't allowed for much to happen in 4 days.
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
I'd like to do a more comprehensive catchup later tonight; moar objectivity. So the below are presto-imprezione.
Mala, it's simple: I'm the one that makes you laugh, Tybalt is the one who's piggybacking me. Now had you said Tybalt / Thane (Gen) I would agree with you, as I mixed those guys up a lot earlier, what with neither of them posting. My read on you is still town mostly for the unforced nature of your posts earlier (due for a review, so I'll take a look at this).
Mothrax *still* hasn't said anything, which makes it hard to question her/him if the current groupthink about him/her being town is incorrect. Objectively.
(can you give a hint to the correct pronoun please moth? if not it'll just be 'her' from now on in line with your avatar.)
Don't know what it was that caused Tybalt to change his vote with such apparent realisation. I didn't end up with the implied impression at all. HB, don't lose hope yet. Will take a look.
I will have a proper look at Hyper and Gen too. Gen, sorry for ignoring your posts before, will get back to them. Well maybe not the last one, as I think that was a bit derp what about opinions on others rather than just the current 'targets-dujour'?
Hyper, you're a riddle inside a paradox right now. Correct town read, but undermining credibility, and flagging me as a liability, therefore expendable? Will look into that a bit more, in the meantime have you managed to get any more insight into the other players on this dark stage yet?
Finally, 'JMO Investigates'. I can print the sign for the door if you like.
But hey, :goodjob:
Chilled Talah, try do it ASAP as deadline is approaching. It's hard to give my opinion just purely because I can only give it on a few people because the rest are not playing.
JMO still seems the scummiest to me. His posts are of little or no content.
Talah, orginially I thought you were scummy because of your oscar nominated entrance but I have changed that opinion for now. Feel newb town more than anything, seem to be doing more proper scum hunting.
Honeybee, she's doing goodies probably doing the most scum hunting out of everyone and she has this amazing ability of making herself as impartial as possible. Anyways, nothing in her area worries me at the moment.
Mala is a null. Would like to see her post her cases or thoughts.
Moth, I thought moth was a big townie but either he is not coming back or he is now just watching from the sidelines.
Grey, hasn't done much either so can't really say anything.
Activity has been low so it is a really slow going game, especially considering deadline is so close. Will do another read through see if I pick up on anything but we really just need people to post please.
Going back and reading over everything (including some of the earlier things I posted, which are *cough* somewhat cringe-worthy, and some of which I've avoided reading when they've been re-quoted even), I noticed before that I've been using the word 'vote' at times when I've meant 'suspicion'. The two are almost interchangeable to me, don't know if you've noticed that.
I didn't mind my first post at all, still don't. RVS doesn't end at any specific point, or rather, the point at which it ends may vary due to opinion. I think in this game it ended with uoyeluri's post.
I come into this game thinking it's going to be fun, clever and witty, and a real mind-challenge, and that it's a bit of a sandbox where accusations can be laid down, and people will sometimes leverage Real Life as an excuse in ways which are either genuine or as a tool. That's my experience, having read through probably half a dozen games.
I am a reasonably quick learner, and in making playstyle mistakes I've been forced to go looking for information on how to better that, and importantly, have also adapted my role to become something useful. I'm still not out of the woods, but I'm enjoying this immensely. When it doesn't get too personal, that is, although I've been the main protagonist of this kind of play so I apologise for that where it's gone over the line.
I like applying pressure and questioning motives. Slot is not equal to person is not equal to slot. The person needs to be pressured. You cannot pressure a role PM. I find it very irritating when people think they can make a couple of blithe statements and then rest on their laurels and not contribute anymore. That may be less than objective.
Might I add, this whole game is double-think. You don't realise that until you start playing one.
Objective Self-Rating:
Prob-town but a bit of a bastard at times.
Of Mice and Hyperion
Fropome said something which struck me as an AH-HA! moment:
In post 129, Fropome wrote:I like to try to find town and work with them. It makes it harder for scum when there are a group of town players with good reads on each other, working together.
The rest of the post is quite challenging to people which I identified with immediately.
Hyperion (subbing in for Fropome nee Uo) on the other hand...
In post 215, Hyperion wrote:Isoing Honeybee and Talah give me the same feels as my original read through did. Honeybee puts alot of pressure and analyzes into each and every one of her posts. Talah on the other hand, clearly has no idea what he is doing, and looking at the way he is posting, I find it very hard for him to be scum because if he was I feel like he would be making more of an effort to scumhunt instead of posting plays. He is town, but is a liability do to his lack of knowledge/skill. I am 90% sure that both are town.
Will do more later.
...picks the obv-town, the new-town gaining credibility, and Mala (his previous post) (also Mala haven't looked back yet so no classification) as town reads, then smashes the credibility of the new town (three times in four posts no less) while simultaneously trying to appear very sage and making a dubious 'analysis' of Gen's first post or two, which I disagree with immensely (agree/disagree isn't a bad thing on a first skim-through, at least it's input) and don't think was worth even saying.
Then he ups-and-leaves-like-someone-who-has-something-to-avoid.
Although I liked
Ted Dansen
Frobey, it was mainly subjective. Being identified correctly by Hyper also caused me to be quiet for a little while in smug satisfaction (also I wanted to leave others time to say stuff without spamming it up). But in the final analysis this leaves me with a scum lean on Hyperion.
Also No vote, no scum reads, promise of more analysis with three days to deadline has not yet eventuated. I wonder if he'll come back with a 'sorreh gaiz forgot bout teh gaim'?
The Dilemma of Malakittens
Subjectively, I need to give Mala an out. It was real shitty me saying this:
In post 125, talah wrote:I have noted you've been a bit paranoid earlier so I hope you'll be happy enough to answer any questions later.
And despite the fact I've apologised several times for this play, it's going to be difficult for me to objectively criticise. I feel crummy about it. It won't stop me pointing things out, but if my arguments seem weak, that's the reason. And if my opinion is that she's town, it'll be a glowing review
The main problem objectively with Mala is that she's successfully avoided stating opinions (post-RVS) on anybody except for the most controversial protagonists of this haunted merry-go-round. Even conversationally she has not interacted with anyone but JMO, HB and ME.
Someone more objective should pursue this.
Faux-Greywing
I don't even need to review posts or ISO for Greywing. This whole exchange has been so subjective it's engraved on my consciousness. It doesn't mean I've changed my opinion. Maybe slightly. But not much.
Let me show my working:
In post 204, Greywing wrote:First of all, Talah, stop the intentional misspelling of my name in an attempt to insult me. I've treated you with respect throughout this game, and I expect the same in return. Thank you.
This seems highly affected. The statement is, like I mentioned, 'Indignant' rather than defensive or even accurate. The misspelling was twice, no more no less. The first was a 'parable-quote' in which I'm quoting one of JMO's early posts. The second was a Jibe at JMO, effectively clarifying accusing him of faking typing 'grey wing' instead of 'Greywing', even though he'd managed to spell this correctly on a vote previously. That fizzled out a bit, but the question remains: Why would Greywing say this?
I can think of a few reasons.
He genuinely believes it, his statement just came across as affected.
He was trying to get a reaction out of me, despite the fact that I've reacted emotively to virtually nothing up to this point.
He was trying to prove he's town, and I just don't get it.
He wanted to generate some 'plausible inconsistency' by saying he got a laugh out of the play and then grumping up for no reason at a deliberate misspell not aimed at him.
He needed to say something and that was the first thing that sprang to mind.
...and every other explanation in the universe.
Despite anything else, he did respond to my calm questions. Needless to say, I was not satisfied with the responses. "Could potentially be scum" is a nothing, especially when it culminates in a null read upon further questioning. I'd like him to act more townie by answering more questions (and providing more input), and I question his motives and votes. That said, he looks a bit less scummy by virtue of honesty. My biggest criticism is that he's too self-assured about his votes and not saying much.
The quiet, um, achiever?
Mothrax has gone from being a very good player who directs focus in promising directions with very succinct statements, to someone who's not contributing and may have ulterior motives.
To be quite honest I saw her as a very good litmus test on other players to pursue (yes, I've read about appeal to authority and I take full responsibility for my own assessments). Her playstyle is *excellent*. I'd like more feedback and certainly a vote reassessment.
Werewolf art thou Tybalt?
Tybalt in his non-posting, previously, has actually seemed more 'distracted' to me than anything else.
Earlier he seemed happy to lay suspicion down on people for quick fire reasons, but then produced his list (which I criticised) and has since come back with some statements which are explanatory and somewhat hard to squirm out of if he is scum:
In post 149, talah wrote:
tybalt: I want to know what you think of jmo, actually, and not because of any subtext but because he needs some attention. Lives are at stake.
Here is my clear, unbiased opinion on JMO and I am not going to read any other people's opinions of JMO before I say this.
JMO, upon isolation, seems to be trying to withhold from saying anything provocative- trying to stay out of the spotlight if you will.
Has reservations on doing, well, anything.
Post #43 seems to be weird, and another attempt to continue to not provoke anyone. If anyone has played with JMO and knows he is like this every game then I will retract that.
Also #107, the reason for why JMO is voting ThaneArvan, seems sort of like what JMO is doing
Ok, wow. VOTE: JMO
In post 247, tybalt wrote:ughhhah talah and jmo are town VOTE: greywing because of 165'
Honey bee I'm sorry for doing this to you but I will respond later I am so tired so stay tuned
And regarding this, what I really would like to see from Tybalt is the answer to the following questions:
What is it that caused you to change your vote away from JMO?
Why did you then vote Greywing?
What are your assessments of other players?
Unfortunately I can't give a better analysis than that. Although I'm semi-averse to voting him due to a basically null read, I just have to see better reasons for doing so. OTOH Because I want to see more information, I'm happy to vote him to get it.
The new smart kid in town
"Welcome to the Scumhunting Crew"
- Talah, to Gen_Wolf, Newb 1381, now
Apologies but I did a lot of my analysis steam on the above. I read through your contribution first of all, before writing anything else in this post, and have run low on more precise analytical puff. Take the full jar of jam instead. I am very comfortable with your posts.
Your analyses are well reasoned and you're happy to lay opinions down on anyone, and question anything. For a newcomer, you've come in with quite a bang, and made a great impression (objectively, not just because we've agreed on a couple of things). This is good. Thane seemed very time-poor and gracefully frocked off. You seem like town and at this stage I'm prepared to put some trust in you.
(That is your horoscope)
...and
this
is your question: Who's the next most scummy apart from JMO when he fake-claims?
You never explained unvoting JMO at the time and you are tarring he and myself with the same brush. That's bewildering without an explanation and you backed down from HB's interrogation without any 'defence' but rather a few apologetic sentences and a 'Please don't put words in my mouth' statement which comes across as a non-statement. Something to say. I trust HB and a quite prepared to see you lynched for post-mortem analysis.
In post 257, Gen_Wolf wrote:Activity has been low so it is a really slow going game, especially considering deadline is so close. Will do another read through see if I pick up on anything but
So ISOing Tybalt makes me lean town. I like alot of his analysis, however, he only has like 12 posts in the game, even though he has been here since the beginning, due to his vla, so I would like him to post more so I can get a concrete read.
Mothrax is town. He is very straightforward and focuses on catching scum do to facts based on this game (such as when he said to drop JMO's odd "no townreads playstyle" since it doesnt help us catch scum, and I think scum would have been more likely to latch onto and make a big deal of something like that.). Shows alot of analysis in his posts. So yeah...
Kitty
Town. Puts alot of pressure in alot of different directions. I might maybe (but probably not due to my schedule) go looking for one of her scum games during night phase to see what she is like as scum, but for now I am still confident in my read of her.
In post 263, Hyperion wrote:Kitty
Town. Puts alot of pressure in alot of different directions. I might maybe (but probably not due to my schedule) go looking for one of her scum games during night phase to see what she is like as scum, but for now I am still confident in my read of her.
Can you cite some of the pressure you believe Mala has been applying please?
So Greywing starts out by attacking Mala for pressuring Luigi, simultaneously white knighting Luigi. Then once public opinion shifts, he hops on Luigi. However, I do like alot of his analysis, so I'm going to put him in the middle of the pack for now with a slight scum read.
I'm still happy with my reads. Honeybee, are you sure youre a newb?
@Talah: what benifit to town does posting things like the play, and other various, mostly unnecessary walls have?
@JMO: We all know what you think of that one slot who I cant remeber who is in it now... (GEN?) but who else could be scum... what are your other reads?
I feel like JMO has made a lot of excuses for his play without doing anything about it. He is tunneling and not really contributing and he is blaming activity and first time ICing... Lots of other people manage to IC just fine their first time while playing to their wincon... I can even dig up my old one if I must... but I would look to people like Nachomamma and Thor...
Again, she is asking people about there votes, which puts the pressure on them to answer, because when they answer she can dissect the answer in order to get a town/scum read on that person.
Thane's first post was #10..
You voted him in #55..
He didn't provide anything.. Anything to be neutral.. You're basically voting a lurker who's not really being considered a lurker.
Now if second post came before your #55 then you might have a chance with that argument, but right now you're grasping at straws.
Sorry Tybalt, but I don't like your latest post. You seem to be tryin to find your footing, but it's really weak and really giving me a bad vibe. I can see new scum going for the lets vote a lurker card to try to avoid attention and look like they are helping.
VOTE: Tybalt
The bolded part. She dissects the context around Tybalt's vote and attacks him because the context shows the vote doesnt make sense.
mothrax, talah is an easy target. So you've got Grey and you've got me down as suspicious. At least one of these is wrong. Who else is suspicious? Why should I trust you?
Why are you calling yourself an easy target?
Policy lynches don't ever benefit anyone. Now you're going after an easy target.
Please give me 5 reasons why we shouldn't lynch you
.
Oh jmo.. He didn't specificity which ongoing game. That's not modkillable. You're just trying to scare him off from pokin you, imo.
She is again asking questions and pressuring others to add information into the game.
Also please point to me where asking about a VC is a scum-tell. KGO.
(ps my smiley has a link - you all should click it)
She is calling out JMO on his tunneling and applying pressure onto him (but continuing the point) when she doesnt believe he gave a satisfactory answer. Also she asks him to provide basis on the italics
So Talah, those are some of the instances of where I believe Mala has applied pressure throughout the game. She questions people and she pursues and works off of those questions
Tunneling, no other defined reads outside of his one of Thane (now Gen?). In general this is bad, but for an IC, you are really teaching these newbies nothing. Leaning scum
Tunneling, no other defined reads outside of his one of Thane (now Gen?). In general this is bad, but for an IC, you are really teaching these newbies nothing. Leaning scum
Thanks Hyper for Mala's analysis, that seems to make sense. But as far as JMO the obligation to teach is the least of my concerns. More to the point is that it is his reputation on the line.
what about opinions on others rather than just the current 'targets-dujour'?
