Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Vi]

~Vote Count XIII

Antagon (5)

~ Katsuki, Oversoul, Pjovek, hp [leaves], Zdenek

MattP (4)

~ Tammy, Tierce, Zachrulez, enomis

Zachrulez (2)

~ implosion, Syryana

fferyllt (1)

~ MattP

Pjovek (1)

~ sword_of_omens

Not Voting:

fferyllt,

(Zdenek,)

Antagon

-sword_of_omens is being prodded...

--With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

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(63%)

[Tammy]

I read Matt's recent posts. Matt is almost certainly town.

I read Zach's 182 in depth. I don't like it. Some of the points are legitimate rebuttals, but trying to defend the push on pjovek is a bit odd, and calling the difference between pushing for a full or a partial massclaim a "semantic difference" when it is in fact a rather large difference seems to be sidestepping the main point that's being made, which is that his push lacked context.

As i continue reading his iso, nothing sticks out as particularly townish. He made a specific point earlier that his reads are subject to change, implying that this is important. I feel like he's dismissing a lot of Mattp's posting as scummy when it's just bad play. I use the word dismissing here because I think a lot of his posting on matt feels like he's assuming that matt is scum and then deriving that Matt's play is bad scumplay. i.e., 493. Even not buying that argument does not make Matt scum. Even if his argument is completely wrong, that doesn't mean that Matt doesn't genuinely believe it. A bad argument can still be genuine.

HOORAY I DID THINGS

Matt is perfectly capable of faking that amount of AtE as scum. The fact that that is the bulk of what he's done coupled with dismissively insulting anyone who suspects him is troubling, but I'll expand on this in my post to Matt at some point tonight.

I don't know about Zach, I'm leaning town on him, but I feel like I could get a solid feel on his alignment in a few days. Zach doesn't like being scum and tends to lurk. In the Wire when Empire and I were trying to read the Zach/Sotty hydra, Empire was like don't try to read Sotty that won't help. Look at what Zach posts and how often. He also kinda comes across as fake as scum. I remember in Castle Zar when he replaced in for MoI, and DGB replaced out because I asked her to explain some reads, he took my side on that in a kinda oily way...now that I look back on it. Anyway, his discussion with Tierce over meta and his expecting Tierce to read through his meta because he feels like he has a pretty obvious scum v. town meta felt townish.

[implosion]

Matt is perfectly capable of faking that amount of AtE as scum.

Would he though? The kind of shit he said is something i feel would be perceived by a lot of people as a dick move if he's scum (I wouldn't but i feel like a lot of people would) and i'm not sure if he would say it in light of that.

[MattP]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16768

Tammy this is a recent town game filled to the brim with AtE

I'm giving you a challenge. Find even a single scum game from me with even 10 AtE posts in it, if you want to use meta

[Tammy]

Meta is dumb if a player has been on site for at least a year, people aren't machines and once they're confident enough to play scum without shitting themselves they will be temperamental and they will change from one game to another

[MattP]

YOU just used meta, "Matt would do this as scum" so I'm using your own words and showing you they're wrong

Seriously?

[MattP]

if you want to use meta

[MattP]

Matt is perfectly capable of faking that amount of AtE as scum.

[Tammy]

Darlin - Do you forget I replaced into your scum slot in Abarat or that we've been scum partners before? You are capable of it. You are lying if you want to say you aren't.

Did I say, he's scum for using AtE? No, you're perfectly capable of it and you are. I'm perfectly capable of faking that amount of AtE as scum, and if I am you certainly are.

You were obvious town in War is Hell. I followed along for a good part of it, and you were super obvious town during your argument with Tierce in that game, but you did a couple things there that you haven't done here.

[MattP]

It'll be very funny if you end up being scum

[Zdenek]

Hey remember War Is Hell. Sheep me. It will be easier, and we'll lynch scum.

[Tammy]

It'll be very funny if you end up being scum

IF you think there's a possibility I'm scum, why aren't you pushing me? You've said you know I'm town, which I obviously am. You've caught me as scum before...why aren't you pulling out the steps to Tammy as scum?

OH.

[MattP]

Babe I think you're town

I'll just very much hate you endgame and probably laugh simultaneously

[Tammy]

I completely recognize my play has gone down the shitter. I attribute it to not having drawn scum at all (this bars ongoing game discussion) for like EIGHT months

Matt. I couldn't give a shit that your play has gone down the shitter. As far as I'm concerned it's rather cyclic and doesn't really have a barring on whether or not you've drawn scum. But I remember you posting that in the after game discussion of Fortnight, so I get that you think that. I went six months without drawing scum before I ended up drawing scum three times in a fricking row at my home site (hi Tierce feel your pain!). What's funny is, I actually had one of my strongest town games ever right before I went on the scum streak there.

But, what drawing town a lot did not do to me, was make me forget how to actually look town when town. I maintain it made my ability to look town even stronger than it already was. But, I understand games where your reads suck. I've been there. I've been in games where I literally haven't been able to get decent reads at all. Where at lynch time what I did was decide just who looked more town than the other and go from there because I was lost.

This is not my problem with you though. I couldn't care less if your reads are sucking. This is not a newbie game. Look at this player list. There is no need of hand holding here. My problem with you is that you just don't look town to me. And I know you are capable of looking town. Hell, you're probably one of the more obnoxious "Im obvtown" players here. (Maybe not more than Empire or Tierce, but midway between me and them).

Here is where I started having a problem with you Matt.

VOTE: mattp

You have 5 pages to town tell...go!

That's contingent on there being a dumbass in the game

Why is it contingent on there being a dumbass in the game? Why so passive? It's the beginning of the game, you were around, why not take initiative? From what I know of you, you get your best reads from the early stages of the game.

But you know I thought, hey that's kind of weird, but we'll see what happens.

Then you bring this...

But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment.

You're lying

You didn't actually come to that conclusion

Would you like to stop lying now or should this be a power lynch? [:

When I saw this, I thought, okay Matt's starting to do his thing.

And then you did this...

Syryana protip you should stop wasting your time with Tammy

Why wouldn't you answer my question last night about whether or not you think you're able to recognize when someone is trying to get a read on someone? You're a smart guy, you couldn't tell that he was trying to get a read on me? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that he realized I was town a few posts before he stopped the dance, based on a couple things he said.

What throws me off, is that I know that since you like to push people to get reads and see how people react and get reads from that, that you should have recognized what he was doing. And I can't figure out why you stepped in with this post. I can't figure out why you wouldn't stand back for a minute and see how it went and let it help you get a read on syryana or anyone else. And I know that you say you wanted to stop distractions for your fferylit suspicion and lynch, but really? No, really? I've seen you tell people not to respond in the midst of one of your pushes to gauge reads, and you interrupt what should be recognizable to you?

It felt off to me. But, still, well let's see.

But then your play just devolved into a rather flaccid push on fferylit, and I don't care that you don't have any reasons. Though I would like to see some now. I've made at least two posts about my dissatisfaction with the fferylit wagon and though you're town reading me, you haven't tried to get me to see your point of view? This doesn't make sense to me either. It's not like we've never played together before or in marketplace we didn't work well together. It's not like I'm unreasonable.

But you're not doing anything.

You can't even give reads. All you've done is whine about your bad town play lately and how you can't catch scum because you haven't drawn scum. But what's worse Matt, is that all you've done beyond that is dismiss and insult people who are suspecting you. And I could understand if you were dismissive after you'd been obviously town, but you haven't so the way you're dismissing the suspicion on you doesn't feel natural. Hell, in marketplace when you got suspicion, you didn't just insult people you explained why their suspicions were unwarranted. But here it's people are stupid, dense or moronic for suspecting you when you haven't done anything to make anyone think you're town.

And if you're town and if you're honest with yourself you'll know you haven't. Your play is suspect, and I know you can do better. And again I couldn't care less if your reads are super awesome, what I care about it being able to discern your alignment.

[Tammy]

Babe I think you're town

I'll just very much hate you endgame and probably laugh simultaneously

If my scum game is ever able to progress to looking this town, I'll call you and we can have a party.

[Katsuki]

Yo hey guys we all know Mattyboys very capable of faking that which probably is, but can we stop and think for a minute as to WHY he's doing this?

Once you do, proceed to vote whimsy thanks.

[MattP]

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

In fact what he said:

1) Literally doesn't make any sense logically
2) Is fence sitting since he's not voting me
3) Is an opinion phrased as a question towards the audience to feign scumhunting and further push a mislynch

pedit: ???

Oh I'm sorry I thought I was voting you

VOTE: ffery

Do you feel better now?

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

I was ON Whimsical Eggplant when I did this, your logic insinuates that I was trying to absorb the lynch on my scumbuddy who I was voting to protect a PR

What the fuck does that even mean

Yeah, nobody's ever heard of distancing.

So I just want to get your theory straight for the books

MattP knows Antagon is a scum PR and wants to protect him but at the same time distance so within 3 posts he votes Antagon with a mundane post that isn't inherently scummy, then decides within minutes to fakeclaim in response to Tierce and troll her and act scummy to move the wagon over to myself, and then within the same page jumps off of Antagon back onto you immediately which defeats the point of distancing and in fact would draw us together even more

Is that the story?

Question of the day:

Would any rational town player naturally come up with this theory?

VVVVVVVVVVVVVV

THIS IS WHERE YOU CAME IN

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Fortunately, I have a high threshold for people accusing me of being stupid on the internet.

So, Matt, what are your reads? Hmmm?

Also, first off, you can answer me this...

Syryana protip you should stop wasting your time with Tammy

Why did you intervene in the Syry/me dance early game?

Because I knew you were town from Marketplace?

You do know that my claim was a troll, right? Because I'm pretty sure that was completely transparent

I don't feel like giving reads ty

Of course it was obvious that I was town, but you didn't take the opportunity to use that to gain reads on anyone else? Did that help you with a read on Syryana at least?

You have to do better than that, Matt.

I think you're claim was you pretty transparently trying to fake a derp town tell, but that might just be me. Ask your scum buddies how transparent that was.

Are you going to just completely blow off ffery's posts pls let me know ASAP if I should go study instead of waiting here to deal with denseness

if you'd read the thread you'd know that I don't agree with the ffery wagon.

_______________

I

tried

to have you look at ffery, and I posted plenty of posts, quoted above, that led up in a page's time into a case. You didn't respond to ANYTHING I said, because you thought I was scum and thought ffery was town. Sure, I've been a semi arrogant prick, but I did reach out to you, and I did make a case, and I was ignored.

The reason I pushed ffery initially was because of this:

I've been thinking about that newbie game. I assume pjo gambits no matter what alignment he is.

and this:

I haven't seen his scum game.

So why do you think that he gambits as either alignment?

I was asking mrbungles because they've played together elsewhere.

But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment.

I don't believe that this was a natural thought process. It just doesn't make sense as a scumhunting thought process. But I didn't have any intention of just calling ffery out because:

1) I like reaction tests
2) people sheep me a lot. Or at least used to

So I tried applying pressure without telling why I was on edge, and I wanted to see if I could get a scumslip out of ffery. I do this as town all the time, yadayada.

[MattP]

And what was your reasoning for the Antagon vote?

Antagon was literally that his posts were incredibly tonally scummy. Would you like me to try to dig up specifics? I mean, when you see a tonally scummy post you just think, "this post is scummy". It wasn't a scummy SPECIFIC ACTION, that is

[Tammy]

Okay, but I did say I needed to meta ffery, so I didn't completely ignore it. And you're not the only one with limited time. I do still need to meta ffery; i'll do it tomorrow afternoon.

I also want to hear from Syryana on ffery. They've played together and have been hydraing, so he should be able to get a better read on her.

[MattP]

FOR THE RECORD I am totally ok having conversation like this, even if you think I'm scum

I have "emotional time" to have discussion like this

[MattP]

I start to get upset when I feel like everything I'm saying is antagonized and that nothing I try to do will help at all

Then I feel hopeless and it affects my other time

Like even if at the end you say "I think you're still scum after giving what you said some thought" I'd be OK, I just want to feel like I'm not talking to a wall

[MattP]

Also honestly I was just being a dick when I claimed because I thought it would make me look town to you and put me in control

And then the opposite happened and I tried to assert authority

And then Tierce voted me and I was flabbergasted

And then I went into War is Hell phase and started getting upset

[MattP]

I didn't really care because I fakeclaim so often as town I knew scum wouldn't believe it but it would lock me into a claim which is town at the same time so would help me assert myself as town.

[Katsuki]

/wastes more battery

Of all players I'm suppose to be the most spammy one... (when I'm not busy lurking at least, I only exist on polar opposites).

You're not actually upset matt. Drop it.

[MattP]

I was