Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[Selkies]

After this morning's discussion, we've changed our mind about Amrun. The possibility of L-3 still seems a weak reason to trot out a fake claim. Town players claim early in order to shed light on the game. Scum claiming at L-4 just doesn't make sense to me. Especially experienced scum.

[Nero Cain]

So you think the three scum are in this list?

sword of omens
GoodCop_BadCop
Iecerint
Demon

[Amrun]

@selkies: Wrong. Scum fakeclaiming power roles early isn't odd at all, because they're panicking. It's far more common than town early claiming, because they have the conviction of being town and a desire to protect their PR for the sake of the town.

That's a big reason I suspect Marangal in the first place. I want to re-iterate that it's not just set up spec that makes Marangal scum. Look how she claimed, piecemeal. Look through her ISO and find the scumhunting; it's sparse to nonexistent. Look how little she is concerned with how her claim doesn't fit (this should make her look more closely at other similar roles, and evaluate them in light of her own, but she doesn't). Look how inconsistent and nonsensical she has been re: Ghostlin's claim.

[Selkies]

So you think the three scum are in this list?

sword of omens
GoodCop_BadCop
Iecerint
Demon

Me?

No. We have ThAd in our scumpile. and Iecerint and Demon are in our town pile. I think one of our town reads could be wrong. Maybe more than one, but unlikely.

[Selkies]

@selkies: Wrong. Scum fakeclaiming power roles early isn't odd at all, because they're panicking. It's far more common than town early claiming, because they have the conviction of being town and a desire to protect their PR for the sake of the town.

That's a big reason I suspect Marangal in the first place. I want to re-iterate that it's not just set up spec that makes Marangal scum. Look how she claimed, piecemeal. Look through her ISO and find the scumhunting; it's sparse to nonexistent. Look how little she is concerned with how her claim doesn't fit (this should make her look more closely at other similar roles, and evaluate them in light of her own, but she doesn't). Look how inconsistent and nonsensical she has been re: Ghostlin's claim.

I actually agree that MsM's claim timing looks bad but I understand the whole time zone thing and worrying about being hammered without a chance to claim when the nightfall deadline starts to loom or town seems to be coalescing around a decision.

From what I can gather of her role, it seems weakened by the dreamwalker thing. She has to choose between protecting someone and hiding herself, though hiding in the dreamworld has its on risks apparently. Unless I misunderstood her explanation.

I don't like the way she's focused mostly on Demon.

I'm relying on orcinus' being able to read her better than I do.

[Iecerint]

After this morning's discussion, we've changed our mind about Amrun. The possibility of L-3 still seems a weak reason to trot out a fake claim. Town players claim early in order to shed light on the game. Scum claiming at L-4 just doesn't make sense to me. Especially experienced scum.

Are you referring to her softclaim about "knowing why Nero thinks that," or to her "some kind of cop" claim?

[Selkies]

I was referrig to both.

[Nero Cain]

Amrun, what was your initial reaction to a second kill?

Can you tell me or quote your belli read?

[Amrun]

Why would town be worried that they got tracked?

Why would scum trot out a fake claim with so little vote pressure?

Its 6 to lynch. She already has two votes and you've claimed that both you and Orc find her suspicious so that's 50%. + its not like scum don't fakeclaim early. Some of ya'll are claiming that Mara is scum, what's the difference between the two claims? + its not like she hard committed to a claim so she still has some flexibility, though she claimed an investigation type role so I doubt she'll be the lynch for today.

+ there's a history of scum claiming to have visited a body but not killed them so I'm on edge.

Amrun, what was your initial reaction to a second kill?

Can you tell me or quote your belli read?

Sorry, missed this on previous page -- probably missing some other posts, had this pre-loaded on phone.

Of course I understand the skepticism about having visited a dead body... That's logical.

And I will clarify my role to prevent my lynch, but I don't think it's pro-town to do so until absolutely necessary.

As for Belli, he's a strong town read. I've said it several times.

[Amrun]

Oops, still a question I missed.

My initial reaction was to be weirded out because I didn't expect it in a mini. My initial reaction was also that the scum kill was more likely to be Matt, and therefore the scumteam consists of at least one person who knows Matt's reputation and is scared of it.

[Cephrir]

Vote Count 2.7

ThAdmiral 2

(GoodCop_BadCop, Belisarius)

Ms Marangal 2

(Amrun, Demon)

Demon 2

(ThAdmiral, Ms Marangal)

Amrun 2

(Nero Cain, Iecerint)

Belisarius 1

(sword_of_omens)

sword_of_omens 1

(Selkies)

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline for Day 2 is June 20th at 11:59 PM US Eastern. This is in (expired on 2013-06-20 23:59:59).

[sword_of_omens]

Sorry..running late at work ...i'll have to pop in from a coffee shop tonight or tomorrow...

[Nero Cain]

yeah, after looking at some mini's a 3 man scum team makes more sense.

[Nero Cain]

vote:selk

this is who I want to kill today.

[Selkies]

Barking up the wrong tree.

[Ms Marangal]

Did you seriously claim, under very little pressure when your main argument against me for being scum was the fact that I pre-maturely claimed before deadline at L-3? Why is my claim a scum claim and yours a town one?

and yes, my doctor abilities are weakened. I either protect myself from being targeted, or I protect someone else.

also, Having dream walkers, a commuter, and a Doc seems odd though it's likely that scum have some very powerful abilities as well. maybe a few strong-man abilities or something to compensate for the massive amount of protection roles.

Thad's role seems off, though I like how he was able to see what I kinda saw in Demon to which, demon just brushed off to the side. I really don't see why people have Demon as town at all

[Amrun]

I didn't claim due to any pressure at all. I claimed to she'd light on Nero's alignment and motivation; entirely different. I still don't feel any pressure and the likelihood of me being lynched today is very small indeed and always was.

Did you seriously just claim that a doctor that can self protect I'd WEAKENED? That's OP as shit and I don't buy it in this game AT ALL!

[Selkies]

hi, clarifying something

i don't actually have a town read on m but i'm sure her alignment will become clear soon enough, claimed doc and all, so I'm not really worried about reading her atm

nero: why

-o

[Selkies]

Did you seriously just claim that a doctor that can self protect I'd WEAKENED? That's OP as shit and I don't buy it in this game AT ALL!

Haha you had the same reaction as me but then fery explained it to me. It's okay amrun it makes sense

-o

[Amrun]

Oh and for the record since several people have mentioned him, my town read on demon has deteriorated significantly since I first stated it, even by the end of yesterday (which I think I noted, not sure). But still, I'm not especially inclined to lynch him, though I'm not opposed except by virtue of far better lynches existing. Demon's a big "meh" for me, though I still don't find him particularly scummy. That being said, I can't exactly call his behavior pro-town.

ThAd and Marangal BOTH pushing for Demon, a relatively safe lurker lynch, solidifies my conviction that there is scum in this group as well as makes me less inclined to lynch Demon by association alone.

P-edit: no it does not make sense.

And yes, she's a claimed doc that lived past night 1 when a claimed PR DIDN'T! It has already been made clear by night play that she's scum!

[Iecerint]

To me, given what Mara has said about the night-talk situation and what various players have said about the dangers of the dreamworld, the fact that the other dreamwalker hasn't yet gone into a 1/1 with Mara (i.e., and has instead remained anonymous) suggests that Mara is probably town.

[Selkies]

Oh and for the record since several people have mentioned him, my town read on demon has deteriorated significantly since I first stated it, even by the end of yesterday (which I think I noted, not sure). But still, I'm not especially inclined to lynch him, though I'm not opposed except by virtue of far better lynches existing. Demon's a big "meh" for me, though I still don't find him particularly scummy. That being said, I can't exactly call his behavior pro-town.

ThAd and Marangal BOTH pushing for Demon, a relatively safe lurker lynch, solidifies my conviction that there is scum in this group as well as makes me less inclined to lynch Demon by association alone.

P-edit: no it does not make sense.

And yes, she's a claimed doc that lived past night 1 when a claimed PR DIDN'T! It has already been made clear by night play that she's scum!

I thought that dreamwalking is kind of like commuting - they avoid being targeted for night actions, but are at risk of whatever happened to Ghostlin on night 1.

That aspect of dreamwalking is why ThAd's commuter role claim seems different and less flavoricious than MsM's, Beli's and Ghostlin's claims.

[Cephrir]

Prodding Demon again.

[Amrun]

To me, given what Mara has said about the night-talk situation and what various players have said about the dangers of the dreamworld, the fact that the other dreamwalker hasn't yet gone into a 1/1 with Mara (i.e., and has instead remained anonymous) suggests that Mara is probably town.

What gives you the impression that there are only two, it not just one, or that Mara isn't lying about the whole thing and there are none?

[Amrun]

Oooh I bet Ghostlin was the paired town role and Mara is the scum half!