Newbie 1382 (Game Over)

[Mr. Flay]

@jon Have you not noticed that no matter what I say, no matter how I explain myself, I get accused of being scum. Yes, I'm certain at least one of Pitoli/Flay/Xiao is scum now... it's hard to discern which one I think is scum for sure, because they're all ALL OVER me.

That MIGHT be because you're being actively scummy. Rather than whining about it, refute my points. Give the 'alternate' (real, from your POV, or lying, from your scumPOV) explanation for why you are acting the way you do.

Disengaging is just going to make it EASIER for you to be lynched, which is going against your Win Condition whatever your alignment is. Play the game, don't flip the &*%*$% table.

[Mr. Flay]

*sigh* lortaku is more than two days gone from the thread again, too.

@Mod: prod?

[jon_h61]

Guys, as I've said multiple times, I'm pretty convinced that jon is scum and I think we should lynch him today. If I'm wrong, I'd be happy to self-vote tomorrow for all the damage I've caused.

If you're Town, that'd be a really stupid move, and one I'm sure you wouldn't do as either alignment. It's something I've seen scum say before, so if you are Town, don't say useless and stupid things like that. If you're really Town, and really convinced I'm scum. Well then, keep scum hunting, maybe you'll find a real connection later. Or slip up and bring yourself down, if you're scum.

@ pitoli I don't know, cog dis? I have noticed that more than once I've used things I've done as scum tells against someone else this game. I have to look for reactions by doing something. I'll never catch scum setting on my hands.

[rmpeacoc]

What do you really expect me to say to refute your posts.

The basis of your argument in the last post that you made is:

1. You think I'm trying to lynch lortaku to gain town credit (I'm not)

2. You seem to think I should be comfortable lynching ANY of the people that I called scummy, because I must be sure they're scum because I called them scummy (I'm not willing to lynch someone who I'm not fairly sure on. I think Pitoli's playstyle seems scummy and while I don't have a lot to back it up I do want to point out that she has written much longer posts in day 2 than she did in day 1, where I continued to ask her to post more content and stated out loud that I felt like she was coasting by

3. You all claim that I wasn't about a lortaku lynch. Again I'll say it. I was about a Xiao lynch until he turned things around. Then I got onto Lortaku... regardless I'm not sure how you can see this as a bus because I had reasoning... others are voting him for lurking.

4. Your 'translation' of what I said, where you say

"You weren't around pitoli, but neither was I, and when I was I was being Attacked for my Emotions so I will Appeal to your Emotions here because Xiao was mean to me. Once I stopped being so distracted by my Emotions I totally stopped defending lortaku and voted for him when a lynch looked likely."

is just your translation. I was NEVER defending Lortaku as a player. If I was defending him at all it was for his newbie ways. When I stopped and looked at what he said about me (first I was scum for being emotional, then it couldn't be faked... etc.) and that he'd had experience... that's when I voted him. So relax. I'm not scum budding my partner and I'm not scum trying for an easy lynch on a townie.

5. You say I'm distancing myself... but really I'm just trying to get people to take action on something. If you want to lynch me go ahead, as I said I'd much rather be ml'd than lynched wrong on lylo. I don't know what else to say to this. The things that you are using to call me scum are not things that I use as scum tactics, but I'm never going to get you to believe me. Being focused on this much as town is extremely frustrating and I'm far too exhausted with life/work/etc. right now to fight with you over it, mostly because I know I'm emotional. So knowing we have a ml and knowing I am apparently standing in the way of things means yes, I'm telling you to lynch me if it means I'll be out of the way. I can tell at this point that you guys wouldn't even take things easy on a replacement and they'd likely be immediately lynched anyway.

Why not just flip rmp today, and settle your case against her straight away?

^Kattaze is somehow in my head. You get 2 mls in this setup. Use them wisely. One thing I've noticed about MS vs EM (I'm really not about to get into an argument about this, just pointing it out. Judge me if you want from learning to play mafia from EM, but its a good time) is that on EM they're at least willing to narrow it down... everyone here seems to not want to lynch anyone unless they are 100% certain. I see two problems with this. 1 is that you're all over me but not voting me, and 2 is that if you think i'm being scummy than I'm obviously hurting the game and you should probably just lynch me now so that you can actually focus, because as much as you think you are focusing, you're NOT if you think I'm scum.

However... I am starting to see Kattaze's side of things. Looks like Jon is taking the easy way out putting his vote on me. He calls me squirrely but uses no real support of his own (annoying). Other than calling me out on ATE (I'm not attempting to appeal to your emotions, as I said. I'm really just trying not to give up on this game, and at least trying to make sitting ducks take some sort of action, even if it means lynching me. He says that ATE is null but basically makes it look like a scum tactic coming from me. I'll tell you one thing. If I was scum I'd be choosing my words a lot more carefully and probably not posting quite as much content as I'm probably digging myself into a deeper hole. Then he says that scum say something similar to what I said before they flip. I hope you also realize that town says those things as well. It's null.

You know what I just convinced myself to change my vote.

VOTE: jon_h61

e-dit what is cog dis?

[rmpeacoc]

P-edit* my bad.

[Zaicon]

Vote Count 2.3

lortaku (2)

: Mr. Flay, Xiao Long

rmpeacoc (2)

: pitoli, jon_h61

jon_h61 (2)

: Kattaze, rmpeacoc

Kattaze (1)

: notquitethere

No Vote (2)

: JerryArr, lortaku

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Deadline is Tuesday, June 25 at 4:00 PM CDT, which is in (expired on 2013-06-25 16:00:00).

V/LA

jon_h61: June 14 - June 16

[jon_h61]

I'm going to be spending most of the day getting ready to go camping, so I may not reply later today.

Since we still have all nine players we're in good shape. If enough people find me scummy I'd suggest you go ahead and lynch me. It'd get Kattaze to start looking for the real scums (if he's Town, of course). This isn't me just giving up. I'm just not going to be around for the next few days and I don't want you all waiting for me to claim.

If you want a claim, I'll do it now. I'm Town.

@ rmpeacoc Cognitive Dissonance is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time. It's me accusing someone of doing the same thing I've done, and saying it's a scum tell.

[Zaicon]

VOICE OF MOD:

Oh, and lortaku has been prodded.

[rmpeacoc]

Since we still have all nine players we're in good shape. If enough people find me scummy I'd suggest you go ahead and lynch me.

^^Didn't he call me out for saying something similar?

[pitoli]

@Jon

: Is that considered a real claim? Of course you're Town.

Dunno what I think about your cog dis stuff.

[Mr. Flay]

What do you really expect me to say to refute your posts.

Stuff like that, yes. Much better. It's no fun to lynch the surrendered.

1. Unprovable, but more or less true. More specifically I think if you're scum you're trying to bus a weak/lurking partner for towncred. If lortaku flips town, my case on you breaks down significantly (though not entirely, as anyscum could be going for the 'easy' lynch).

2. I think you shouldn't complain when people wonder why you don't go after people you consider scummy. That may mean voting/lynching them... it may just mean pressure and questions. A lot of your posts are VERY reactive, which is a scumtell. First you obsessed on the Xiao fight, more recently you spent a lot of time saying "everyone" was after you, when you really only have a couple of votes. Onoly attacking those who attack you isn't a very good way to scumhunt. Going quiet when no one is attacking you isn't very good either (that goes for more than just you, certainly).

3. Eh. You joined the lortaku wagon when it had momentum. You were on the Xiao wagon when it had momentum (in fact both were L-1 votes). Except for going up against Fear in your early posts and telling pitoli you wanted more posts out of him, I haven't seen anything else until very recently. You seem to be sheeping along, not what I expect from a EM player with a strong opinion of her play.

4. Your opinion and mine differ, obviously. I think your early interactions with lortaku are VERY polite and borderline coaching. Hence why I want to see his flip to see if I want to go after you, not the other way around. Leaving lortaku alive another day will just mean we have to deal with more minimalist posting and a possible endgame with a silent member. Not my idea of a good time.

5. Why does it matter to you if you're mislynched now or mislynched at LyLo?

[rmpeacoc]

why does it matter if I'm mislynched now? because I'm town and if I'm mislynched at lylo than town loses? Isn't that obvious?

I want to go after lortaku... he's the only one who I want to lynch. Just because I think Pitoli seems scummy doesn't mean I'm sure she's scum... of course I'll never be 100% certain but I'm more sure about Lortaku... idk why that's hard to understand.

I suppose it Lortaku is lynched now and flips town and you're off of my back that's good enough for me. And at least if he flips scum and you think I'm scum we'll have a ml. I can live with that. In the end it will HOPEFULLY help town either way.

VOTE: lortaku[/lortaku]

[rmpeacoc]

if***


VOTE: lortaku

[pitoli]

If you think I'm scummy at least (but not scum, apparently), why haven't you at least explored the possibility of a Lortaku/me scumteam? So strange. You don't have leads on anybody else but you won't even push a case on the two of us.

[rmpeacoc]

Have you ever thought that I don't see you as a team? I mean I think it's pretty clear that you're not a team. Sorry that I don't have very good reads... honestly I like to wait to make a decision on too many people until someone is lynched or killed because it's really hard to make a decision day 1... I don't usually see teams until at least day 2 if not day 3. Honestly it's easier to see a team after one scum has flipped. I'm not the type to explore partnerships. If you want proof of that go check my completed games. I NEVER explore teams. I also do tend to focus on one person while speculating as to one or a few others who seem scummy. If you don't like that I get it, but please acknowledge that not everyone thinks like you do.

Also it's rare that you can see a team d1. But then what am I saying. If you're town you probably think you have the scum picked already and I happen to know by your vote that you are wrong, so I'm not even sure why I'm attempting to argue this, since from my point of view you are poor town or scum.

[pitoli]

Have you ever thought that I don't see you as a team? I mean I think it's pretty clear that you're not a team. Sorry that I don't have very good reads...

No, RMP. You never make anything clear. You make things so unclear that you have to keep fighting with people about what your words mean.

VOTE: Lortaku Here's L-1. I don't want lurky McLurkerton over here around another day, he's obviously not in this to catch scum.

[Kattaze]

Urgh...this bandwagon sucks. He's a pretty useless player but I really doubt he's scum. This is just a policy lynch and nothing more because there isn't anything of substance against him. Why don't you all jump on jon's bandwagon because there's actually convincing reasons for him being scum. You won't look sheepish because I'll take all the blame if he flips town. Seriously people there is scum smiling right in your face and you are getting distracted by an inactive ghostship. Leave lortaku until tomorrow, lynch jon today. If I'm wrong about jon I will look so scummy that you'd be justified in lynching me tomorrow.

[pitoli]

It's not really a policy lynch at this point. Nowhere in his posts do I sense an intent to scumhunt. He shows up every two days to provide some comments on the recent goings-on, but not really to push on anybody or use his vote to get stuff done. In fact when he did vote it was pretty sheepy. Timestamps indicate he signed in yesterday, but he hasn't posted since Tuesday - active lurking. I thought #367 was a way of rolefishing.

I'd rather get rid of the useless player and keep someone like Jon around so I can better determine whether he's guilty or not. But I do think I might need more time to reevaluate my other reads so actually UNVOTE:

And can you PLEASE stop saying you'll take the blame/mislynch tomorrow if you're wrong... Basically if Jon is town you'd be encouraging two mislynches in a row. It's just counterintuitive.

[Kattaze]

And can you PLEASE stop saying you'll take the blame/mislynch tomorrow if you're wrong... Basically if Jon is town you'd be encouraging two mislynches in a row. It's just counterintuitive.

Fair enough but nothing else seems to convince people that he's scum. I've piled up scummy quotes and tells and that doesn't seem to work so I thought I'd try a different tact. Are you not voting him because you're afraid of sheeping or because you are genuinely unconvinced he's scum or because you think lortaku would make a better lynch?

[Mr. Flay]

Appeal to Emotion rarely works on this site, from Town or Scum. Personally I just find your Jon case entirely unconvincing, even though I still think for now that you're probably Town. And the lortaku thing started out as a policy lynch, but at this point he's just checked out. He probably thinks he's been replaced/lynched already... and I DO NOT want to see a replacement in that slot at this point. A replacement just gets towncred for no fucking reason and it will start this whole damn Day(s) over again!

Leave lortaku until tomorrow, lynch jon today. If I'm wrong about jon I will look so scummy that you'd be justified in lynching me tomorrow.

ARGH!. Stop that. WHAT WILL HAPPEN TOMORROW that makes a lynch on lortaku more likely than today? Why would we not get rid of dead weight today and deal with Jon/rmp/Kattaze/nqt/whoever tomorrow?? Why are you trying to keep a lurker around, Kattaze?? And beyond that you keep saying you're okay with being lynched if Jon flips town, which a) scum will probably take you up on, and b) would blow two mislynches for the price of one.


tl;dr: what pitoli said.

[Mr. Flay]

VOICE OF MOD:

Oh, and lortaku has been prodded.

Can you warn us if you're thinking about getting a replacement, so we have the option to lynch instead?

[Mr. Flay]

Sorry for the triplepost, just looked at the Activity Overview.

JerryArr

, are you willing to vote today? Or at least post more often??

notquitethere

: Same question. Do you feel your vote on Kattaze is doing any good?

Lurking loses Towns, kids.

[Zaicon]

VOICE OF MOD:

Can you warn us if you're thinking about getting a replacement, so we have the option to lynch instead?

I will post in the Newbie Queue in about 30 minutes to look for a replacement (assuming my internet starts working again).

[Mutleyddmc]

I've just replaced into this game. Won't be able to catch up until tomorrow with it being a Saturday night and all.

[Zaicon]

Mutleyddmc replaces lortaku.