Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Tammy]

OS - I'm not quoting your post but it's Post 631 I'm responding too. (I don't feel like going to a computer right now)

It's not necessarily that. The way I read you is by a feeling I get when you post. There's just something in your tone, I guess, that when you're town I've been able to pick up on. It was missing when I followed along in Khans game. It was something that was missing in black flag too, though you did the fake ate quite well. I thought I saw a spark of your townish posts earlier but then that disappeared. You seem more, mechanical, maybe? I don't really kow how to explain it.

If you had doubts about my alignment though, why werent you interacting with me?

Paranoia and suspicion are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but paranoia tends to have the element of the irrational. Me getting paranoid of empire in yoloville for instance was irrational. The things I suspected was legitimate but he was extremely obvious town, so it was silly. You being paranoid about tierce and fake day killing her because her claim reminded you of when she was scum and you thought she was fooling you was irrational. Your hyper paranoia of ces in team mafia was similar.

So yes you've shown suspicion of tierce, but it feels muted. Like its not real suspicion or it's not something that you feel. I don't get the sense that you feel like she's fooling anyone, or potentially fooling you.

Even your "oh dear Tammy this is where we start to have problems" feels off. I'm starting to doubt my town read of you because you don't feel town. It doesn't mean I'm scum reading you, I'm just not town reading you and am looking at you a bit more closely.

Pedit: that's perfect syry

[fferyllt]

Zachrules

He had an early hyper focus on pjovik, and in post 106 actually said he was barely paying attention to anything else going on in the game. As other players commented, he grabbed on to their reasoning (in some cases reasoning that did not result in votes of their own) to flesh out his case. posts 134 and 135.

135 is interesting, because he was responding to a post about Whimsical Eggplant and Matt but to make more argument for voting pjovik.

So, here I'm wondering if this is townish tunneling or not. It's definitely not moving with the town herd as new data hit the thread and affected other players' trajectories.

141 reinforces my thoughts about post 134.

Post 182 in reply to Syryana gives at least some trajectory to the vote change to whimsical, so props for that. He refers to his pjovik vote as "silly" in this post, but maintains a level of suspicion about him.

In 210, 248 and 298 this could be trajectory set up for a vote change. 298 consolidates into a scum list.

I push for some interaction and get it starting in 307, but I don't get any sense from that convo that he's making an effort to sort me - it's me keeping it going. This is contrast to Tierce, who pushed

me

though she didn't really follow up after getting what she wanted for starters (a reads list). Three players he suspects, two of whom were active in the thread and not much questioning at all.

This is actually kinda true of Tammy as well. She hollers for Syry to come and tell her what he thinks about me, and mentions reading three of my prior games. But, this could be legitimately holding back observations as to not taint the waters, and possibly to get a better read on Syry as well as to confirm/refute her impressions from my prior games.

Back to zachrules. 309 shows that he hadn't really read my posts, since I had made a number of comments about who I had town reads on at that points. My vote indicated where my greatest suspicions lay at that point.

314 the disclaimer and a door out of his current scum reads. Why spell that out?

321 subsequent posts of pjovik's he's talking about were that discussion on whether "spam" was battery-draining or not. (based on the battery drain that day btw, I'd say "spam" is better activity than a low-post-count day. It was one of the days so far with the least amount of drain.


444 Votes Matt, another vote without reasoning, but the context around the post makes the reasons pretty obvious. The ambiguity is maybe typical of his gameplay? In later posts he indicates it doesn't matter what Matt's alignment is - e.g., a policy/utility lynch? This gives me hives.

The above focuses mostly on the stuff that caught my eye in a negative way. From interactions with players who know him better I think some of it is probably play style. And from the recurrent themes - if, how and when he telegraphs read changes, I think he probably does tend to either hold back or just not articulate all his thoughts about what catches his eye.

His posts about Antagon's claim aren't troubling me.

[Tammy]

Antagon - what is the name of your role?

[fferyllt]

Even though he didn't give a reason, the timing of mrbungle's 2nd vote on me fit and even sort of anticipated later reactions.

I don't see this at all.

Maybe you had to be there. Or maybe you had to be me.

hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

Upon ISO skim of hp, his unvote was when he replaced in. Why should he give reasons for unvoting from whatever his predecessor was doing? Why does that make him scummy?

It was a vote on one of the also-ran wagons. If the vote had been on the leading wagon, my first act as a replacement would have been to unvote if for no other reason than to ensure could catch up.

The point about hp being shallow and only focusing on mattp/antagon isn't bad, but hp's thought process is pretty clear IMO. From what I've seen of scumHP (and don't ask me to elaborate, I can't), hp doesn't have a clear thought process as scum.

Ok, good to know.

Are those your only two scumreads?

I still am suspicious of Antagon, but I don't think Antagon is a good day 1 lynch atm. And, zachrules is near the scummy end of null. Which is interesting since I don't have a lot of nulls.

What are your thoughts about MattP? I've come away from his recent posts thinking he could be town. Others seem a lot more suspicious of him.

[MattP]

Oh yayaayayaya now I dont have to try

VOTE: Antagon

Weren't you super scum reading ffery at this point? Why do you sound gleeful at the antagon scum read?

I didn't have a super strong scumread on ffery, I thought that ffery's initial posts didn't make sense and I wanted the pressure on her but I didn't get it and it was stagnating. I was glad that someone was being so scummy that I didn't have to reaction test them to get the info I needed. Hence "now I don't have to try"

As for ffery, I feel more settled by her recent posts on the past two pages and feel like she's actually in an open, logical dialogue so I'd like to see how it progresses. I'm also thinking about an aspect of Antagon's claim / how he delivered that doesn't make sense (and usually I would try to coax an elaboration out of Antagon in a covert way to see if I could get something scummy from him but judging by the fact that you and Tierce are on me like hawks I'll try to be more overt until that's over since if anything I bet doing that will divert attention away from where my reaction test would want it to be)

You want me to claim? Okay.

I claim Poo from EarthBound.

For some reason, I can use teleportation as kind of a JK/Ascetic type role. If I target a player, no actions can be taken by either player. No actions can affect either player, unless my target decides to kill me.
Yeah, I don't really understand how my role works.

I care less about the power of the role because I don't think it's my job to analyze how powerful a role is in tandem with the setup. If anything, Vi gave this as a fakeclaim if Antagon is scum, so it's just as valid as any other role.

What bothers me are these parts:

You want me to claim? Okay.
...For some reason...Yeah, I don't really understand how my role works.

The parts left are increasingly more and more scummy during rereads. I think if Antagon was town he wouldn't have posted those. It's hard to put why into words but I'll try:

1) He doesn't understand why his role's flavor is the way it is but he does understand the mechanic of his role. However, he says "Yeah, I don't really understand how my role works." at the end, which would imply he has no grasp of the power of his role. If he REALLY didn't understand the mechanic he would have tried to understand with the mod, not waited until his claim to complain about it. And therefore he just wouldn't understand the flavor he claims, but I don't believe he would have said "I don't really understand how my role works" at the end, I think he would have just explained the mechanic part and the name, it's like he's trying to flaunt his confusion about unimportant flavor, and feigned confusion is often a scumtell (see Capcom with DGB, which was deleted)

[Katsuki]

This is implying that you have other possible actions that you can take... and given what you're claiming, that shouldn't be the case?

Why did it take you this long to reach this obvious conclusion?

It didn't? It just took me a few minutes to actually type it out after re-reading.

[Tammy]

Matt - I don't care if you reaction test people.

I'll talk about ferry when I get back from a swim.

[MattP]

Ok, well in War is Hell any time I put off immediately saying my thoughts about something I was met with great pressure from Tierce

[MattP]

Since she currently feel about me here how she felt about me in War is Hell I'll try making changes to avoid that funtime

[hp [leaves]]

V/LA for a day or two

[Vi]

~Vote Count XVII

Antagon (5)

~ Katsuki, Pjovek, hp [leaves], Zdenek, enomis

MattP (3)

~ Tammy, Tierce, Zachrulez

Zachrulez (2)

~ implosion, Syryana

fferyllt (1)

~ MattP

Pjovek (1)

~ sword_of_omens

Not Voting:

fferyllt, Antagon, Oversoul

--With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Battery power:

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(56%)

[Syryana]

VOTE: fferyllt

[MattP]

VOTE: fferyllt

Why, if you've explained this I missed it

[MattP]

I said it badly. No actions can target me or my target. My target and I cannot have any actions, unless I target someone who tries to kill me.

What happens if someone who you don't target tries to kill you?

It will fail. I am protected from kills unless I target someone who tries to kill me.

What happens if someone who you don't target tries to kill you?

It will fail. I am protected from kills unless I target someone who tries to kill me.

So you're unkillable unless you target someone that targets you for death?

That's.... pretty fuckin OP.

But in a game where the death of one role makes it Night for the rest of the game...

These posts guarantee that his confusion is fake

[fferyllt]

VOTE: fferyllt

You've seen the best and worst of my MS town play as experiential meta. And you've also seen my scum game.

[Syryana]

Indeed. And now I've seen your scumgame again.

Matt, the explanation must wait. The dinner bell is ringing and I must heed its clarion call.

[fferyllt]

Nope. I'm afraid this is well within the space where my town game oscillates.

[Oversoul]

OS - I'm not quoting your post but it's Post 631 I'm responding too. (I don't feel like going to a computer right now)

It's not necessarily that. The way I read you is by a feeling I get when you post. There's just something in your tone, I guess, that when you're town I've been able to pick up on. It was missing when I followed along in Khans game. It was something that was missing in black flag too, though you did the fake ate quite well. I thought I saw a spark of your townish posts earlier but then that disappeared. You seem more, mechanical, maybe? I don't really kow how to explain it.

If you had doubts about my alignment though, why werent you interacting with me?

Paranoia and suspicion are not necessarily mutually exclusive, but paranoia tends to have the element of the irrational. Me getting paranoid of empire in yoloville for instance was irrational. The things I suspected was legitimate but he was extremely obvious town, so it was silly. You being paranoid about tierce and fake day killing her because her claim reminded you of when she was scum and you thought she was fooling you was irrational. Your hyper paranoia of ces in team mafia was similar.

So yes you've shown suspicion of tierce, but it feels muted. Like its not real suspicion or it's not something that you feel. I don't get the sense that you feel like she's fooling anyone, or potentially fooling you.

Even your "oh dear Tammy this is where we start to have problems" feels off. I'm starting to doubt my town read of you because you don't feel town. It doesn't mean I'm scum reading you, I'm just not town reading you and am looking at you a bit more closely.

Pedit: that's perfect syry

Hmm...
That's interesting. I've never really had someone go deep into my meta.

I'm not sure where you get the fact that I was very overtly suspicious of you? From my comment about you being more than likely town? I had a feeling that you were town but once you started having suspicions about me after calling me town is what sealed the deal, especially as no one has been chiming up about my alignment and you brought it up on your own volition.

I really don't know how to tell that I am town because you read me through tone but yes I did change my playstyle.
I think you might be able to see the difference in Fortnight as that was the beginning of the change when DGB, Kuribo, and Tbone were just hammering it into the rail that I was scum because I was playing "weird". I mean.. you can look across everything (please don't make me explain this) to see if my play has changed overall or if it is different here. I would argue it has. It has changed because I'm not trying to get as emotionally invested into games as I used to since playing mafia seems much easier that way. I took things pretty personally before and saw shadows in the dark (if this game is still going on and certain events occur) I'll explain. I got bitter about being lynched, about getting accused of being scum, about being wrong with my scum reads. These things would carry over into real life where I would be agitated or angry if people started accusing me of things and the mood wouldn't go away until I forgot about things. I'm trying to make mafia less in-tune with my life and be less serious about it.
I don't know if it has really helped me in mafia but it has certainly helped me that I'm not distracted during the day by the emotions brought on by mafia.

For now, I guess all I can say is to wait. I'll answer anything you have for me but I don't know if that will help anything or clear your uncertainty about me.

But in a game where the death of one role makes it Night for the rest of the game...

@oversoul: What you want me to say about this? Probably he mistook it that death of the apocalypse role would make it night for the rest of the day? Well, both scum and town would make a mistake with this. I don't see the point of you bringing up this post.

Well a couple of things ran through my mind...

The first is... How the hell is someone so oblivious to what this game actually is? The second is... this looks fake as fuck a la "stupid scum" trying to look like town that doesn't actually "know". It was why I originally suspected Benmage in Fortnight... and well... yeah. The third is... do scum have day talk?

I remember in the last Large that Vi ran (Mafia Behind the Maiden) that I think the scum did have daytalk. The fourth is... if Scum have daytalk, why would Antagon post that? Because surely the scum would have coached for that claim.

I wanted to see if anyone else picked up on that but apparently not.

I'm not entirely sure that I think Matt thought that up on his own. He suspects that post is fake as fuck too.
I need to see if his posts "tell" the tonal story of suspicion around that post.

[MattP]

It's a little bit mean that you don't think I could feel his post was fake and rationalize from there yo

[Vi]

~Vote Count XVIII

Antagon (5)

~ Katsuki, Pjovek, hp [leaves], Zdenek, enomis

MattP (3)

~ Tammy, Tierce, Zachrulez

fferyllt (2)

~ MattP, Syryana

Zachrulez (1)

~ implosion,

(Syryana)

Pjovek (1)

~ sword_of_omens

Not Voting:

fferyllt, Antagon, Oversoul

-Pjovek is being replaced. Please hold...

--With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

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(49%)

[Oversoul]

It's a little bit mean that you don't think I could feel his post was fake and rationalize from there yo

It isn't that I don't think you are capable, it is that I feel you of all people would have brought it up before I brought it up when talking to enomis.

[MattP]

It's a little bit mean that you don't think I could feel his post was fake and rationalize from there yo

It isn't that I don't think you are capable, it is that I feel you of all people would have brought it up before I brought it up when talking to enomis.

I didn't even see that you did

[Oversoul]

I mean I wish I could trust you on that alone matt, but you only brought it up after I did so I'm pretty wary of things

[MattP]

I mean I wish I could trust you on that alone matt, but you only brought it up after I did so I'm pretty wary of things

Let me ask you a question that's recurring wonderfully often this game

Why would I lie about seeing something as scum? What would be my scum motivation for seeing you posted a thought, and then replicating the thought pretending it was my own and acting like I hadn't seen you had already posted it

It's obvious that I wasn't "mirroring" you because I posted that I took offense to you saying I couldn't come up with it on my own prior to you reminding me that you had already posted it, so it's guaranteed that I either didn't see your post, like I said, or I pretended to have not seen your post when I made the observation myself. So you're implying that I literally thought to myself "hm oversoul says something that I wanna pretend I thought of myself, so I'mma post the thing that Oversoul said acting like I didn't see he already said it for towncred"

Let that marinate

[MattP]

It's a little bit mean that you don't think I could feel his post was fake and rationalize from there yo

^This post implies that prior to you saying this:

It's a little bit mean that you don't think I could feel his post was fake and rationalize from there yo

It isn't that I don't think you are capable, it is that I feel you of all people would have brought it up before I brought it up when talking to enomis.

I didn't know you had already said it and that I thought, or tried to make it look like I thought, I was the first person to make my observation and only realized you had posted it before me when you pointed it out in post 670 above.