Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[Ms Marangal]

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True if they are full commuters.

Marangal should fully claim now.

- f

I was getting there, I just needed to get some stuff together first.

I am Nynaeve Town Doctor Channeler Dream walker.

Also Marangal has still not claimed her action after repeated needling about it

this is also wrong, no one has pressured me into full-claiming

I think beli might have been on the right track RE: Ghost being killed in the dreamworld. I walked last night to avoid getting killed should I be targeted, there were three of us in there and apparently we were all girls.

I'm thinking that, based on how people reacted to Swords claim, scum got a few people who they thought could dream-walk and they didn't want to target any of those people so, they went after someone who didn't react to his claim at all who would also be a threat to the game, hence the Matt kill.

I asked if there were any forsaken female because I thought the other sister, who looked like she was trying to gain our trust, could have been scum. the third sister shared her opinions with us in the thread, and it looking back at what Ghost stated end of D1, it's super similar to what he stated.

My guess to why Ghost was killed over me is because of the fact that he made his identity more easily recognized, which to me means that the killer-dreamwalker might have had to make specific guesses to successfully kill


My dream-walk is non-consecutive and I can't walk and protect at the same time, I was thinking that Mafia have the same thing too, but they would have to be in the dreamworld at the same time along with something else.

Beli's one-shot dreaming puts me on pause though.

Amrun's reaction to all of this seems odd, I believe he was one of the people who reacted to Ghost's breadcrumb which was "dream" which I thought made her another dream-walker. though if she was one, she wouldn't be confused about the entire commuting ordeal because she would have the exact same role PM as I did. Also, his response to Swords stating that there are likely more than one commuter and post 871 don't match up

[Ms Marangal]

You should really read what I write Amrun, this post is what Iece was talking about RE the other dreamwalker

[Amrun]

I know what he's talking about. I just don't know why he's saying, "If Marangal is telling the truth about her role, it suggests she's town." A derp. If you're telling the truth you're town... What a revelation!

The fact that iece's logic is circular gives me sudden bad feelings about him, especially if you end up actually being town.

[Nero Cain]

I claimed to she'd light on Nero's alignment and motivation; entirely different

I call bullshit. What does your investigation role have to do with my alignment or motivation?

And yes, she's a claimed doc that lived past night 1 when a claimed PR DIDN'T! It has already been made clear by night play that she's scum!

You are a claimed PR, if you don't die tonight does that make you scum?

[Amrun]

It's very clear in context that both iece and I thought you were crumbling an investigation role, and also it was just fucking obvious anyway (IMHO). But it had everything to do with your alignment.

And a claimed PR =/= claimed doctor. In fact, if Marangal is telling the truth, the scum may want to avoid me, scared of her protect. But in a game where everyone, or almost everyone, is a pr, it means little.

A doctor, on the other hand, is extremely dangerous to scum. And notice how today the self protect bit is added, so now when she stays living, there's an excuse -- after, of course, I pointed out how if she were a doc it's highly unlikely she wouldn't be dead.

And I think you know those things, Nero. Pretending not to understand any context just makes you scummier, as does your indirect defense of Marangal.

[ThAdmiral]

Demon only pops up when he is mentioned to defend himself (and that is being generous, he basically just said the case was bullshit) and then disappears again.
Can we stop trying to build a lynch on flavour and start focusing on actual gameplay in the game?

[Iecerint]

To me, given what Mara has said about the night-talk situation and what various players have said about the dangers of the dreamworld, the fact that the other dreamwalker hasn't yet gone into a 1/1 with Mara (i.e., and has instead remained anonymous) suggests that Mara is probably town.

What gives you the impression that there are only two, it not just one, or that Mara isn't lying about the whole thing and there are none?

I think "claim 3 when there were only 2 so that the lack of CC confirms me as a result" is on the more complex side of things I have seen scum make up about a game, especially early on when there are lots of players and lots of opportunities for it to catch them by endgame. It's not impossible, but it's far on the unlikely side.

[Iecerint]

I know what he's talking about. I just don't know why he's saying, "If Marangal is telling the truth about her role, it suggests she's town." A derp. If you're telling the truth you're town... What a revelation!

It's about the

kind

of claim she made.

MaraScum could have left dreamwalking out of her claim, or she could have simply claimed to have dreamwalked with Ghostlin, and either of those claims would have been fine. Adding to the claim a 3rd dreamwalker, who is really only implicated in Ghostlin's death by inferences from the dreamwalk PM flavor, just opens MaraScum up to be CC'd by town who refuse to have dreamwalked (presuming that 2 scum weren't simultaneously in the dreamworld -- but that in case MaraScum is setting up her ally, and the 3rd person is still scum).

[Iecerint]

V/LA through next Thursday due to yet-another trip. I should be able to post at night.

[Amrun]

Demon only pops up when he is mentioned to defend himself (and that is being generous, he basically just said the case was bullshit) and then disappears again.
Can we stop trying to build a lynch on flavour and start focusing on actual gameplay in the game?

Mara's gameplay is very scummy. That's where it originates. It also has zilch to do with flavor. I don't understand how you are not more suspicious of her, if you are town.

[Belisarius]

Can we stop trying to build a lynch on flavour

How very petulant. It's not flavour alone I'm voting you for -- it's that your unflavoured claim makes no sense when everyone else's has flavour.

[Demon]

I think ThAD is town and someone meta Beli plz ty.

[GoodCop_BadCop]

Yeah these

ThAd - role claim is of the "one of these is not like the others" form. Has been coasting even when under suspicion.
SoO - Day 1 devoted to Ghostlin. Progression on MsM day 1 looks bad, and then it's dropped day 2.
GCBC - Could be hydra-related, but there's contradiction and more importantly there's a lack of depth somehow in the analyses. The SoO focus seemed kind of useless and I am now wondering if there was some scum theater involved in that,

And with that, we are going to VOTE: SoO

Is this a vote to just troll me?

The SoO focus seemed kind of useless, but imm'a VOTE SoO...

Why not vote for ThAd? Someone who you think is scum, and is actually a viable option? Why split the vote more?

~GC

[Selkies]

Oh hi! It's good to see you!

The day 1 SoO focus seemed kinda useless, and so did SoO's hyperfocus on Ghostlin. I thought SoO had a strong townish start day 1 with his milkshake vote analysis. Day 2 he's almost a non-presence.

I have a theory about the PRs - that there are highly flavored ones and not very flavored ones. ThAd and Amrun appear to be low-flavor. MsM, Ghostlin and Beli appear to be highly flavored. I'm getting town-vibe from Amrun's partial claim and from Beli's. And Beli's is also supported by Ghostlin's flip.

Like Orcinus says, MsM's claim will eventually be cleared up or she'll become of high interest in terms of lynch.

Orcinus and I not getting as much of a town-vibe as we'd like from your partner, GC, which is why you guys have slid into our scum pile.

[Selkies]

^^ Missing from that is ThAd. I'm at an impasse trying to read him vs trying to make sense of a commuter claim in a game with so many damned dreamwalkers. But, given the way the dreamwalker mechanic appears to weaken other abilities a la MsM, and carry risks a la Ghostlin it's not beyond belief. Of that bunch, we'd be more likely to vote ThAd today than one of the others.

But, SoO is our top pick.

[Ms Marangal]

and, while I'm here actually pushing my targets of interest, all demon has done is actively lurked, and defended himself from those that attack him or... actually, hand-wave them all off. The only actual attack I can remember him making is his early attack on Matt. Demon's done nothing of use, while I have yet... I'm scummier than him?

[GoodCop_BadCop]

Oh hi!

Orcinus and I not getting as much of a town-vibe as we'd like from your partner, GC, which is why you guys have slid into our scum pile.

Did you mean my partner BC?

If not... this looks like a false read to me considering you can't even tell us apart WITH sigs.

[GoodCop_BadCop]

~GC

[Amrun]

My role HAS a big flavor glob to it, and a flavor to it, but it's obviously just flavor. So I get where you're coming from Selkies. Part of the reason i suspect Marangal (and to a lesser extent, Thad) is because her role is so completely convoluted while mine is so straightforward.

[Selkies]

Oh hi!

Orcinus and I not getting as much of a town-vibe as we'd like from your partner, GC, which is why you guys have slid into our scum pile.

Did you mean my partner BC?

If not... this looks like a false read to me considering you can't even tell us apart WITH sigs.

yeah I meant GC's partner BC.

[ThAdmiral]

Can we stop trying to build a lynch on flavour

How very petulant. It's not flavour alone I'm voting you for -- it's that your unflavoured claim makes no sense when everyone else's has flavour.

Demon only pops up when he is mentioned to defend himself (and that is being generous, he basically just said the case was bullshit) and then disappears again.
Can we stop trying to build a lynch on flavour and start focusing on actual gameplay in the game?

Mara's gameplay is very scummy. That's where it originates. It also has zilch to do with flavor. I don't understand how you are not more suspicious of her, if you are town.

My role HAS a big flavor glob to it, and a flavor to it, but it's obviously just flavor. So I get where you're coming from Selkies. Part of the reason i suspect Marangal (and to a lesser extent, Thad) is because her role is so completely convoluted while mine is so straightforward.

Ok so what has mara done gameplay-wise that is scummy?

[Amrun]

Try reading my posts. I made a summary post like two pages for people like you not even trying to follow along.

[Demon]

Need a flip to turn my game on guys.

[GoodCop_BadCop]

Need a flip to turn my game on guys.

We already have flips. If you were bothering to follow the thread at all you'd notice that... Why aren't you able to scumhunt with the rest of us?

Embracing the Dark (3/13)

milkshake, Siuan Sanche, Town Channeler, lynched Day 1.

MattP, Birgitte Silverbow, Town Vanilla, has been killed Night 1.

Ghostlin, Aviendha, Town Channeler Dreamwalker, has vanished Night 1.

~BC

[ThAdmiral]

Try reading my posts. I made a summary post like two pages for people like you not even trying to follow along.

Ouch, you can be mean amrun.

Ok so here is what I think you are referring to (if I'm wrong please don't snap at me again, my heart won't be able to take it):

@selkies: Wrong. Scum fakeclaiming power roles early isn't odd at all, because they're panicking. It's far more common than town early claiming, because they have the conviction of being town and a desire to protect their PR for the sake of the town.

That's a big reason I suspect Marangal in the first place. I want to re-iterate that it's not just set up spec that makes Marangal scum. Look how she claimed, piecemeal. Look through her ISO and find the scumhunting; it's sparse to nonexistent. Look how little she is concerned with how her claim doesn't fit (this should make her look more closely at other similar roles, and evaluate them in light of her own, but she doesn't). Look how inconsistent and nonsensical she has been re: Ghostlin's claim.

Ok it is a decent case, the most convincing bit is the fact she didn't protect ghostlin. My only counterpoint is this:
Lets say she is scum. Why defend me? I have a role that incriminates her, which she could easily say she thinks is bs (due to her role). Apart from that why defend someone who has claimed town pr at all? Especially town pr that she won't be able to deal with at night?
That's my main reason for thinking she is town.

Yes, I know it relies on me knowing that I am town, which is something you don't have the luxury of doing. But assuming I am town - can you explain her defending me?