Newbie 1391 - Game Over - FINALLY!!!

[Gen_Wolf]

Feg, I'm trying to be a bit more cautious this time because the last game i played I jumped the gun on a lynch that costed me the game >_> (was town that game btw) and I don't have solid reads on anyone but the questions was merely out of curiosity to see their reasoning. Better to survey the area from afar (well for me at least since I am trying to stop jumping the bullet for long phases like this :/ Use to playing 48-96 hour day phases and it requires a bit of on your feet kind of thing...)

Mr May, why do you feel the need to express you were townie in that game, in particular. Surely, it is irrelevant? Yet you still need to mention it?

Oh, there was more. On feel it:
"Do you get town vibes because you both find the same person scummy? What scum vibes do you get?"

Feel it has been showing early signs of gentle pressure application although some of it has been misguided, and also thinking about the vote.
His scum plays included hesitancy on the gen wolf vote when he wasnt so hesitant in miss stranger, and a couple of occasions where he has done something without explanation only to fill in the gap later when someone questions it (can be a scum tell as he uses the time to make the reason fit the agenda or mood). But the explanations that have been forthcoming have made a lot of sense. He is more town than scum to me at this stage.


And on gen wolf:
"Push it back in how?"
I LOLed... But moving in from the question looking odd in isolation, this was referring to my comment about gen wolf and RVS. He makes a comment that his desire to quicklynch on page one of day 1 was because he hates RVS and wanted to end it early. But he also said it was a joke. And he also said it was a reaction test. And he also said it was the secret password to the land of narnia... Ok, I added the last one.
But my point was, antagon had hit a serious vote down and the paranoia stage that always follows RVS was in full swing when gen wolf pops up with what he says was a joke (outside RVS) to END RVS. If anything joking when it's already ended is trying to return to RVS. So he is either lying about it bring a joke or that it was to end RVS. The reaction test comment is a cheap trick to cover scummy play by saying you wanted to provoke a reaction with a provocative comment.


"Yes, he's scummy. What do you think it would happen if he flips scum, and what if he flips town?"

Don't quite see the relevance if this question at this stage. I will answer this as the game progresses if gen wolf enters L-1 territory. Right now everyone should be looking at identifying a top three suspects list. Don't clear anybody and guaranteed town, the ones slipping up on their words occasionally are more likely town than the completely clean players.
Townies don't vet their posts, scum do more often than not. So a town player won't realise or care to notice if a comment seems scummy, a mafia player will ensure every comment has purpose.

But what do I know, I'm a n00b

Ah, well I offered an explanation for why I did it and it is up to the players to believe it or not. Clearly, a lot think it is a load of BS. When I do flip town however, I highly doubt Feel It would be scum. I don't think he would be stupid enough to stick his neck out that far so early on. I wouldn't if I was playing scum but this becomes WIFOM. Anyways, as a reaction test it certainly got a lot of reactions.

The only thing I ask that as townie players please do not lynch me anytime soon. We have 12 days to lynch someone. Within those 12 days if you still feel the need to lynch me that is mellow but at least take the other 12 days for scum to talk there way into trouble.

@Miss Stranger

- You asked how you and Feg reacted to this reaction test.
Feg barely reacted. Just said no lassing it and carrying on with the game.
You on the other hand Miss Stranger didn't react at all as you didn't post about it until post 49. Before post 49 and after the lets lynch her post, you posted 3 times yet failed to mention it at all, but then all of a sudden a few other players had mentioned it and Nacho had had his say then you ask a question, which had already been answered.

@Miss Stranger, firstly why did you take 3 posts before you asked me a question about this "reaction test" and why did you ask a question that had already been answered? Making yourself look busy?

@mod: Will have limited access till Saturday, if thats ok please, have my final exam on Thursday and driving home on Friday. Will be on the forums and will follow the game but posting will be limited

Noted, thanks!

-Vel

[Generic]

Gen wolf, after Friday I would like a T/S list please. That's a run through of everyone in the game and what you think of them and their alignment if its not a known concept here.

And good luck with the exams.

unvote

until I get what I asked for, in case any fast wagon ing might try and take place.

[Feel It]

Gen_Wolf won't be here for a while and we've applied pressure to him and got reactions, we'd be better looking at other players, particularly the lurkers trying to slide by unnoticed.

James May- Getting some very scummy vibes, he's made two posts, one saying he doesn't want to get involved yet and another before that claiming he had a big post analyzing us? He also made a few backseat questions and backed up Gen_Wolf's comment. Probably my main fos after Gen_Wolf

Antagon- Similar to the above, he started the first RVS bandwagon, then went quiet and has just made the odd comment, not giving much help.

[Miss Stranger]

@Miss Stranger

- You asked how you and Feg reacted to this reaction test.
Feg barely reacted. Just said no lassing it and carrying on with the game.
You on the other hand Miss Stranger didn't react at all as you didn't post about it until post 49. Before post 49 and after the lets lynch her post, you posted 3 times yet failed to mention it at all, but then all of a sudden a few other players had mentioned it and Nacho had had his say then you ask a question, which had already been answered.

That's a lie. Look at my post

#22

, where I explained why I switched vote, why I wanted to edit, and why it's not scummy. Then I explicitly asked why you think it's scummy, something you answered

after the posts you are referring to

with "I wasn't serious about being scummy, I was reaction testing". Why are you twisting my words and deliberately overlooking my replies?

@Miss Stranger, firstly why did you take 3 posts before you asked me a question about this "reaction test" and why did you ask a question that had already been answered? Making yourself look busy?

I already pointed out you are lying about the three posts. Next, right after you mentioned reaction test in

#31

, I immediately acknowledged it in post

#47

, which is my first post after the one you made in response to my

#22

, namely the infamous

#31

. 2 posts later,

#49

I ask a rhetorical question ("based on what?") to show Antagon why I think it's scummy. Any vote that goes in the lines of "I'm voting you because you did this and this, but I'm not saying why it's scummy" is trying to criminalise innocent actions, and is therefore a step towards what mafia wants to, lynch an innocent. Point out where I made myself look busy.

And you better have a good explanation to why you're outright lying to defend yourself. Let me guess, next thing I know is you're going to claim an important power role, and your survivalist attidude was town motivated.

[Miss Stranger]

On a friendlier note, good luck with exams and don't take my stake on you personally.

[Gen_Wolf]

I'm waiting for the guy to drop off my notes so might as well use the time wisely. I am in the process of going through everyones ISO.

Antagon

- Only posted 5 times. He is very good at making himself look busy but is just asking questions. Feel it called him out for active lurking already and nothing has changed since then. I agree with Feel It that anta is active lurking and needs to become more active.

Champ

- Again, few posts however when he does post he gives good content and it seems that he is following the game and calling people out when necessary.

Feel it

- Firstly, he heavily criticised my post about lynching Miss Stranger. He has the right to do so the only thing that makes me wonder about it is, firstly, I know i'm town thus it frustrates me. Secondly, the hesitation he showed when laying down his vote on me. Took him 4 and a half hours to finally switch votes. Almost as if he was waiting to see if it was ok for him to put his vote on me. Feel it however does express his opinion, offers reasons to why he has certain views on people. Wasnt happy when he said I latched onto Champ when I didn't. Feel it seems like an emotional player that can easily get wound up and tunnel in. Like i said though, he is good at calling people out and very observant.

Fegelin

- 19 posts into the game and Antagon is already town? Really? Fuck you are good at reading town quickly. Mentioned a game where he played as town, I don't like it when people do that. Almost as if it is there way to insinuate they are really town. James May also did it in this game. He has had 9 posts and only one of them has made it over 1 sentence long. He is making himself look busy.

Generic

- Offers his opinions. Doesn't like quoting and questioning though, he did say this is his first game though. He offers in depth posts, clearly scum hunting and asking good questions. Obv Townie. (Thanks for the luck )

James May

-

I'm trying to be a bit more cautious this time

By Posting twice you are most definately being cautious. More like hiding away. You also mentioned that you have played townie before. You have done nothing to scum hunt and the contribution (if you can call 2 posts contribution) is dismal.

Miss Stranger

- She is very active but also seems like she is making herself busy. However a long with this she does make valid points at times but is also very quick to concede certain points. I get the impression she is new, and thus very timid making it easy to intimidate your opinion onto Miss Stranger. I might be completely wrong though but from her current play I cannot see her being scum. I do not, however, like this if Gen flips town then let vote Feel it business. It is a very easy way for scummy players to justify to lynches in succession and thus through a spanner in her town works just a bit. Ninja'd here. Post 22 however doesn't mention my post directly but rahter questions your mistake. Thus it took 3 posts for you to directly confront my post. I am not lying or putting words in your mouth, I am simply asking a question. However, your post reinforced my townish read on you, but again I don't like that fact that you bring up PR's? I never once insinuated I was a PR and I won't be as it is a detriment to town. If I am a PR I will claim when necessary, if I am not, then I will not. (Thank you for the luck) (I know it isnt personal, its just a game )

Nacho

- Very agressive. Constantly putting pressure on. He is also a very strong player and thus, it feels at times, he can bully his opinion onto some people. I do not like this part however:

In post 43, Fegelein wrote:
Newbie 1344, all he pretty much did is ask questions, flipped scum.

You see a similarity to my town play and my scum play in an old game.
You are currently voting someone random. Why aren't you voting me?

It is almost like a double bluff knowing the Feg wont. He is however asking a lot of questions and gives his thoughts now and then but they very standard straightforward, almost generic sayings. He says what people want to hear him say and gets away with it. Need to see a bit more depth from him.

Reads:
Town

Generic
Miss Stranger

Null

Anta (leaning scum)
Champ
Feel it (Leaning town)
Nacho

Scum

Fegelin
James May

[Miss Stranger]

What are your reasons for disliking Gen right now?

I'm not sure why you are asking this question. At the time of asking it, I already explained my reasons in post

#77

: "Subtle expressions. Jump scare at Nacho, overdefensiveness, more of a survival attitude rather than analystic. That sort of things definitely adds up to form a bigger picture." Gen_Wolf hadn't made a single post at that time, so I'd no reason to change my attitude.

[Generic]

I answered your questions stranger, have you responded?

Interesting analysis gen wolf. I spotted one major good and one major bad though.

I recently made a comment a out the little miss stronger and her frustrations showing town tells. You conveniently drop in your frustrations... I have to determine whether It was deliberate and forced, or just a coincidence.

The good insight was calling me town nah, the good insight was the comment against feel it, and his waiting for how the game trended before laying down the vote. I also like the point about insta clearing that fegelein tried but the swearing was unnecessary (think of the children... Now who are we hanging today?)

Anyway, a lot for me to digest there, just grabbed a few highlights that stood out for now.

[Generic]

A out the little miss stronger = about the little miss stranger.

Phone gaming... Sigh.

[Miss Stranger]

Miss Stranger

- She is very active but also seems like she is making herself busy. However a long with this she does make valid points at times but is also very quick to concede certain points. I get the impression she is new, and thus very timid making it easy to intimidate your opinion onto Miss Stranger. I might be completely wrong though but from her current play I cannot see her being scum. I do not, however, like this if Gen flips town then let vote Feel it business. It is a very easy way for scummy players to justify to lynches in succession and thus through a spanner in her town works just a bit. Ninja'd here. Post 22 however doesn't mention my post directly but rahter questions your mistake. Thus it took 3 posts for you to directly confront my post. I am not lying or putting words in your mouth, I am simply asking a question. However, your post reinforced my townish read on you, but again I don't like that fact that you bring up PR's? I never once insinuated I was a PR and I won't be as it is a detriment to town. If I am a PR I will claim when necessary, if I am not, then I will not. (Thank you for the luck) (I know it isnt personal, its just a game )

I'm honestly not making myself look busy. My job is IT based and I work from home on my computer most of the time. Besides, I'm pregnant. I don't go out a lot, which gives me a reason for posting often, and if I'm not posting, I also have a legitimate reason to do so. My sleep pattern is pretty erratic, for one. I have life, surprise.

I see I've been misunderstood about FI. If you get lynched and turn town, he won't be an obvious lynch, just rise on the suspect list. He's not the only person digging on you, and recently he's even calmed down and broadened his view after I called him out on it in post

#77

. It's more of a gut feeling than anything else, and it was all coming from his polarisation between you and me. I have probably misunderstood "please do not lynch me anytime soon" as a survivalist attitude, i.e. it's a lot better for town if you specifically stay alive sort of thing.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vote Count 1.2

James May - 1 (Antagon)
Miss Stranger - 2 (champinoman, Gen_Wolf)
Gen_Wolf - 2 (Feel It, Nachomamma8)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Fegelein)

Not Voting - 3 (Generic, James May, Miss Stranger)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-06-30 08:00:00)

.

[Miss Stranger]

Sorry Generic, one by one

You asked about buddying of champ and gen wolf. Tat was more to do with champ liking a gen wolf comment and gen wolf leaping on it as the only morsel of positive feedback he got over it. Gen wolf comes across as new scum, but champs positive comment wasn't at the post but at the reaction from others it got (which he later explained), so the buddying comment was misplaced at this time.

Okay, I agree.

On your editing mess up. I never said it was proof you were scum, I played devils advocate on the analysis. I can't just write you off as new and give you a free ride. I'm new here, would you accept me at my word that I've never played mafia before? I would hope not. So I looked at both sides of the coin, but your paranoid frustration is the most telling town tell you have at present, so my read on you is new town and not new scum.

I apologise if I come off as paranoid. Having someone distort your words or look for underlying scumminess in innocent actions is frustrating and instantly makes them scum in my eyes.

Feel it has been showing early signs of gentle pressure application although some of it has been misguided, and also thinking about the vote.
His scum plays included hesitancy on the gen wolf vote when he wasnt so hesitant in miss stranger, and a couple of occasions where he has done something without explanation only to fill in the gap later when someone questions it (can be a scum tell as he uses the time to make the reason fit the agenda or mood). But the explanations that have been forthcoming have made a lot of sense. He is more town than scum to me at this stage.

I just wanted to see if your viewpoint complements or conflicts with mine. I do think FI is town for the same reasons you do, but his sudden friendliness to me and sudden (ignoring the small delay) attack on Gen_Wolf is what alarmed me.

"Push it back in how?"
I LOLed...

Aww...

But moving in from the question looking odd in isolation, this was referring to my comment about gen wolf and RVS. He makes a comment that his desire to quicklynch on page one of day 1 was because he hates RVS and wanted to end it early. But he also said it was a joke. And he also said it was a reaction test. And he also said it was the secret password to the land of narnia... Ok, I added the last one.
But my point was, antagon had hit a serious vote down and the paranoia stage that always follows RVS was in full swing when gen wolf pops up with what he says was a joke (outside RVS) to END RVS. If anything joking when it's already ended is trying to return to RVS. So he is either lying about it bring a joke or that it was to end RVS. The reaction test comment is a cheap trick to cover scummy play by saying you wanted to provoke a reaction with a provocative comment.

Or the "joking" part is referring to "not being serious" about lynching me and the reaction test was an underlying reason for the joke. I don't think a joke here is meant in the sense of an RVS joke. I see how you interpreted it, but it was probably a misinterpretation on your part.

Don't quite see the relevance if this question at this stage. I will answer this as the game progresses if gen wolf enters L-1 territory. Right now everyone should be looking at identifying a top three suspects list. Don't clear anybody and guaranteed town, the ones slipping up on their words occasionally are more likely town than the completely clean players.
Townies don't vet their posts, scum do more often than not. So a town player won't realise or care to notice if a comment seems scummy, a mafia player will ensure every comment has purpose.

I agree again.

[Generic]

It wouldn't be a joke then if it was a test. It would be deliberately pro active for reaction, this not a joke. It can be one or the other, not both. And I suspect by hedging the bets on that there is hope everyone will be dissuaded from probing into a very poorly answered reason.

Had he simply said "I was playing it for reaction" or "it was sarcastic, of course we wouldn't lynch that early, I was passing judgement on how stupid the fast wagon was" then I wouldn't have an arguement. But he took three bites of the cherry to explain it.

(Am I losing anyone yet with my English cliche sayings )

[champinoman]

Evening all. Tight pressed for time today but I'll see where I can catch up to.

Spoiler: champinoman

Why bother with day 1. Lets just lynch Miss Stranger now and go from there? We are already onto our first scum.

I thoroughly enjoyed this post because it clearly articulated what I was thinking when I read the exchange between Feel It and Fegelein and was laced with the amount of sarcasm it deserved. And it lead into some interesting responses from Feel It:

Lynching anybody this early would be silly, we need to poke and prod and talk and get reactions, see who seems scummiest before making a decision. Not sure if I should give you benefit of the doubt due to your newness or change my vote now tbh.

VOTE: UNVOTE
I suppose you're right. While your behavior and reaction was odd, it's not as alarming as Gene_Wolf suggesting to lynch you already.

Opportunistic much?

Defending someone who already looks scummy by attacking the attacker. Highlighted as extremely scum in the wiki theory, but I'm totally unsure if I'm supposed to follow that theory word for word. Dully noted. It's also worth to note however that I also find

Feel It

oportunistic, but so was

Gen_Wolf

's suggestion on me. Hence why I think one of them is evil.

Moving on,

Allowing wagons to form in RVS is a good method to get the game running. We can gauge reactions from James May.

What's your current read on James May then now that the wagon has dissipated?

Not sure if sarcastic or merely pointing out what I pointed long time ago.

James

is simply not participating, so the wagon is useless. Given there were people with RVS votes on them, most notably me, who also showed early activity, a wagon on one of us would have been better - unless

Antagon

was attempting to provoke him into play. I'm probably overanalysing it. That said, I'm also not happy with

James

's absence because I can't tell for sure if there's two mafia amongst the 7 active or just one (if

James

is mafia).

Best I don't RVS vote anyone because I saw quite a few votes on specific people and my vote could push them too close up the hammer. For the sake of a joke vote just not worth it.

So you wanted to put a

random

vote

specifically

on someone who already had votes on them? Riiiight.

The next exchange can easily be described as Nachomamma firing wild bullets in the direction of Generic hoping one hits. Looks like they all missed to me.

It is uncomfortable however that

Nachomamma8

simply tossed a brief comment on my defence and then focused on exclusively on

Generic

.

Why are these reads important enough for your follow up question considering you have ignored the following read on yourself made a lot earlier?

Antagon

is not the only one here with selective reading.

So many questions here that weren't directed at you but you felt you needed to answer. The most interesting one for me is the first exchange. Why is it that when I question the reasons behind what

Feel It

has asked that you need to bring your thoughts on

Gen_Wolf

into it? I don't need you coming in and trying to make the waters murky.

And I feel that you were worried about that being it's own post so you added in the next 3 replies which don't really bring any content to the discussion in the hope it wasn't so obvious.

Just read a little further down the page and you do the same thing in post #70.

Feg, I'm trying to be a bit more cautious this time because the last game i played I jumped the gun on a lynch

that costed me the game

>_> (was town that game btw) and I don't have solid reads on anyone but the questions was merely out of curiosity to see their reasoning. Better to survey the area from afar (well for me at least since I am trying to stop jumping the bullet for long phases like this :/ Use to playing 48-96 hour day phases and it requires a bit of on your feet kind of thing...)

*IF* you are town and you manage to either get yourself lynched or nightkilled wouldn't you prefer that you helped out before dying?

And the bolded part is interesting. You know that you, as a dead townie (in that game), still win if town wins right? This is a team game not a solo quest.

And what erratic sleep pattern?

One of your first posts, and my question:

...

@champinoman, you guys had been on while I was asleep (I'm English) ...
...

...

And a side note: Considering the game started at aprox 1pm (England time) and your first post was at 8.30pm why did you use being asleep as justification for not reading the first phase of voting?

I'm waiting to hear your explanation because currently it seems like a pretty poorly constructed excuse.

Spoiler: Nachomamma post #85

But what gets me is that even though Miss Stranger was apparently less alarming than Gene_Wolf, you still awarded Miss Stranger with a vote yet Gene_Wolf was not worthy of a vote until 4 hours later.

I agree with this. Especially since this:

Yeah, I changed my vote later because I didn't realize at the time he is an SE.

Doesn't really explain it that well.

If you are not satisfied with the explanation then that means if I hadn't done that RVS would have been longer, would you have liked RVS to be longer? Plus you have given quite a nice reaction to a reaction test.

What was his reaction and what did you get from it?

Yes I am very serious. Just because you have more posts does not make you more involved. It could just mean your posting more fluff.

That's true, but it's a useless statement unless he IS posting more fluff, which you're sort of indirectly hinting at but not actually saying.

I liked Generic's #61. I feel those sorts of things are overkill on page 3, but my perception of him as passive, coasting scum is clearly wrong.

It's also worth to note however that I also find Feel It oportunistic, but so was Gen_Wolf's suggestion on me. Hence why I think one of them is evil.

Why just one?

He's sort of sitting back and just asking questions instead of providing real counter arguments against people.

Explain.

You know what, screw bolding, can't be bothered anymore.

(thank god)

Nice long post. Pity there is no content in it. I could summarise this entire post as 'Reiterate a few things already said, point out some really obvious stuff and deflect any possibility of offering my own opinion by asking a return question. Your next few posts over the next hour are very similar too.

Because lists like this should be posted with at least

some

reasoning behind it.
I ignored the read on Feel It and myself because everyone starts out being read as null. As the game goes on, it becomes easier to get reads on players.

That's not what I asked. I asked why you felt you needed to clarify post #29 by Miss Stranger but you didn't feel the need to clarify post #17 by Fegelein. Here is the post bolded for convenience:

She's fine at L-2.

Antagon is probably Town

.

Considering the above was a read on yourself I find it hard to accept you missed it.

Don't clear anybody and guaranteed town, the ones slipping up on their words occasionally are more likely town than the completely clean players. Townies don't vet their posts, scum do more often than not. So a town player won't realise or care to notice if a comment seems scummy, a mafia player will ensure every comment has purpose.

Did your scum buddy make a silly error that you are hoping to sweep under the mat with this? Seems like an odd addition to your post.

ok, that's up to post #99. I need to sleep now though.

[Generic]

Then I have an incorrect impression champino. I have looked at the DATE, it was Sunday... I'm a father if three... It was Father's Day on Sunday, so forgive my lack if interest in logging into this over enjoying family time.

I generally assume when I come in late to a lot of posts it's cos the majority of you are Americans. And I do work shifts, so expect very random posting times, but that wasnt the reason this time.

[Miss Stranger]

@Generic:

It wouldn't be a joke then if it was a test. It would be deliberately pro active for reaction, this not a joke. It can be one or the other, not both. And I suspect by hedging the bets on that there is hope everyone will be dissuaded from probing into a very poorly answered reason.

Had he simply said "I was playing it for reaction" or "it was sarcastic, of course we wouldn't lynch that early, I was passing judgement on how stupid the fast wagon was" then I wouldn't have an arguement. But he took three bites of the cherry to explain it.

See, this is one of the things that are very hard to justify and can be easily swayed in either direction. "Omg, lynch her right now, she's obvious" could be sarcasm (joke) with an underlying motivation of extracting a reaction,called you out on defending GW by attacking FI or it could be an opportunistic scum move. Both are possible and neither can be disproven, by Gen_Wolf himself or anyone else, so it's best to mark this specific expression as "null" and move along. By all means this isn't the scummiest tell of Gen_Wolf either.

@champinoman:

So many questions here that weren't directed at you but you felt you needed to answer. The most interesting one for me is the first exchange. Why is it that when I question the reasons behind what

Feel It

has asked that you need to bring your thoughts on

Gen_Wolf

into it? I don't need you coming in and trying to make the waters murky.

I'm not answering questions directed at someone else, I'm sharing my comments on your thoughts. Do you not want my opinion? You called FI opportunistic, I said GW was also opportunistic for jumping in excitement over my "scumminess" which he never explained. You appeared to ignore that, or never elaborated on it. You seem uncomfortable that I poked into your analysis and that I called you out based on wiki theory (I think so, you didn't mention that part), which explains your slightly hostile and emotional reaction right now. You are now defending yourself by attacking me.

And I feel that you were worried about that being it's own post so you added in the next 3 replies which don't really bring any content to the discussion in the hope it wasn't so obvious.

Just read a little further down the page and you do the same thing in post #70.

"Worried"? I don't see anything that points out towards being worried. I'm simply commenting on your comments. You made comments on different people, which have nothing to do with FI and GW, so naturally my comments on them have nothing to do with the previous discussion. Is it so important that I separate different discussions in different posts? I've nothing to hide. You can always refer any part of it you like, just like Generic did.
Post

#70

wasn't directed at you at all, it was a reply to FI. What exactly makes you suspicious?

Feg, I'm trying to be a bit more cautious this time because the last game i played I jumped the gun on a lynch

that costed me the game

>_> (was town that game btw) and I don't have solid reads on anyone but the questions was merely out of curiosity to see their reasoning. Better to survey the area from afar (well for me at least since I am trying to stop jumping the bullet for long phases like this :/ Use to playing 48-96 hour day phases and it requires a bit of on your feet kind of thing...)

*IF* you are town and you manage to either get yourself lynched or nightkilled wouldn't you prefer that you helped out before dying?

And the bolded part is interesting. You know that you, as a dead townie (in that game), still win if town wins right? This is a team game not a solo quest.

No. He said he was trigger happy and mislynched and lost the game. You read the entire post wrong.

And what erratic sleep pattern?

One of your first posts, and my question:

...

@champinoman, you guys had been on while I was asleep (I'm English) ...
...

...

And a side note: Considering the game started at aprox 1pm (England time) and your first post was at 8.30pm why did you use being asleep as justification for not reading the first phase of voting?

I'm waiting to hear your explanation because currently it seems like a pretty poorly constructed excuse.

Why do you demand explanations about people's erratic sleep patterns? That's a ridiculous thing to hang on to. He joined the game later and briefly mentioned why. You are overweighting innocent actions.

Spoiler: Nachomamma post #85

But what gets me is that even though Miss Stranger was apparently less alarming than Gene_Wolf, you still awarded Miss Stranger with a vote yet Gene_Wolf was not worthy of a vote until 4 hours later.

I agree with this. Especially since this:

Yeah, I changed my vote later because I didn't realize at the time he is an SE.

Doesn't really explain it that well.

If you are not satisfied with the explanation then that means if I hadn't done that RVS would have been longer, would you have liked RVS to be longer? Plus you have given quite a nice reaction to a reaction test.

What was his reaction and what did you get from it?

Yes I am very serious. Just because you have more posts does not make you more involved. It could just mean your posting more fluff.

That's true, but it's a useless statement unless he IS posting more fluff, which you're sort of indirectly hinting at but not actually saying.

I liked Generic's #61. I feel those sorts of things are overkill on page 3, but my perception of him as passive, coasting scum is clearly wrong.

It's also worth to note however that I also find Feel It oportunistic, but so was Gen_Wolf's suggestion on me. Hence why I think one of them is evil.

Why just one?

He's sort of sitting back and just asking questions instead of providing real counter arguments against people.

Explain.

You know what, screw bolding, can't be bothered anymore.

(thank god)

Nice long post. Pity there is no content in it. I could summarise this entire post as 'Reiterate a few things already said, point out some really obvious stuff and deflect any possibility of offering my own opinion by asking a return question. Your next few posts over the next hour are very similar too.

Then ask him for an opinion? By pointing out what he does you are doing pretty much the same thing, pointing out. I don't like how he has selective reading, but the content omitted by him is later interpretated by him as scummy. A scum would likely DIG such content and not omit it. I went through a previous game of his and this behaviour seems recurring. Therefore it could be a result of playing too many games simultaneously.

Because lists like this should be posted with at least

some

reasoning behind it.
I ignored the read on Feel It and myself because everyone starts out being read as null. As the game goes on, it becomes easier to get reads on players.

That's not what I asked. I asked why you felt you needed to clarify post #29 by Miss Stranger but you didn't feel the need to clarify post #17 by Fegelein. Here is the post bolded for convenience:

She's fine at L-2.

Antagon is probably Town

.

Considering the above was a read on yourself I find it hard to accept you missed it.

This is a valid point.

Don't clear anybody and guaranteed town, the ones slipping up on their words occasionally are more likely town than the completely clean players. Townies don't vet their posts, scum do more often than not. So a town player won't realise or care to notice if a comment seems scummy, a mafia player will ensure every comment has purpose.

Did your scum buddy make a silly error that you are hoping to sweep under the mat with this? Seems like an odd addition to your post.

He is saying that a town player is more likely to do slips because they don't care if their comments can be misinterpreted. A scum player would be much more cautious about having their comments clean. Which is why you can't reliably tell if a slip is scummy or not. A scum player would look deep into such slips, since they can be interpreted in either way and nobody can prove it wrong. You also seem to swear by this method, since you already reacted so many times. Examples: "you seem keen onto merging posts together", "you haven't explained your erratic sleep patterns", "are you trying to defend your scum buddy by including this in your post".

[Generic]

I am enjoying champinos über paranoia at anything said. You are one of the more experienced players aren't you?

I thought this was a newbie game, am I not meant to be imparting general wisdom as we go so newer players get better? Anyone auto clearing at this stage of a game is a fool, that was my essential point. I didn't think I had aimed that at anyone in particular, was just off on a little tangent. But hey, that's two goes you have had now to try and spin a case in me, will they all consist of you taking us on a little story as to what the hidden agenda was or will you occasionally point to actual scum tells rather than loose theory?

[Generic]

Btw, something of note.

Champino has so far chose to dissect my posts to death, down to my comments on time and story time about my motives... Can't seem to find a single comment on gen wolf beyond him getting quite reactive when I pointed out his positive comment towards him.

In fact I find it hard to find a strong focus from him on anyone outside of me and feel it who both have put pressure on gen wolf. Only when directly referenced by miss stranger is she brought into the mix.

Potential links already.

[James May]

Guess I can give out my reads on those who I have a slight feeling on, skimming through this because I have finals on two of my classes this week so I do apologize for not being active.

Miss Stranger: Aside from that minor derp up on the editing part, it seems like your leaning towards town atm, but I feel like you're being insistent on starting a wagon on gen wolf (although I may not be as experienced in this sort of scumreading/hunting as most people here) but we'll see how gen wolf goes on from this point.

Nacho: Aside from the "backseat scumhunting" that Fegelin pointed out, I can't point out exactly where to place you in atm, leaning slightly towards town maybe.

Generic: So far providing interesting analysis upon other players on his first few posts, it looks like he's town at the moment but who knows, he could be playing a good scum cover-up, we'll see how it goes from there, as I haven't seen how his playstyle is, might look into previous games to find a good meta on him unless if its his first.

Gen wolf: Heh. Nice sarcastic remark in regards to simply lynching Miss Stranger. Not sure where Feel It (Was it Feel It? Might need to look through it again, but I think it was Feel It. if not was was Feglin) is going on with champin "buddying" you just for the compliment on that remark but i see little to no association with buddying/white knighting involving with that little agreement.

Looking into more later/tomorrow, finals are being a pain like I said so gotta prep, prep, prep with finals at the end of this week. But, after finals I'll be more active than this.

[Miss Stranger]

@Generic:

I am enjoying champinos über paranoia at anything said. You are one of the more experienced players aren't you?

I thought this was a newbie game, am I not meant to be imparting general wisdom as we go so newer players get better? Anyone auto clearing at this stage of a game is a fool, that was my essential point. I didn't think I had aimed that at anyone in particular, was just off on a little tangent. But hey, that's two goes you have had now to try and spin a case in me, will they all consist of you taking us on a little story as to what the hidden agenda was or will you occasionally point to actual scum tells rather than loose theory?

In the beginning Champ felt more of a townie to me, because it looked like he genuinely adressed different view points. It turns out he's actually digging into very isolated mentionings and not at the broader picture at all. Very selective scumhunting on Antagon's overlook, James's misread post, Generic's sleep patterns and a few other instances I already mentioned. Seems to get exsessively (gaaah, spelling?!) alarmed by "slips" and reacted violently when I poked his comments, which is something that just sits ill with me. On the other hand, he has a certain friction with more than half the village (Nacho, Generic, FI, Antagon, and lastly James and me), of which 4 people have been pressuring Gen_Wolf a lot. If Gen_Wolf turns out to be mafia, Champ is definitely next in line for me.

On the other hand, James and Antagon are simply enigmatic lurkers, so attacking them makes sense, though probably not for the reasons ("slips") he pointed. I really don't like this.

Btw, something of note.

Champino has so far chose to dissect my posts to death, down to my comments on time and story time about my motives... Can't seem to find a single comment on gen wolf beyond him getting quite reactive when I pointed out his positive comment towards him.

In fact I find it hard to find a strong focus from him on anyone outside of me and feel it who both have put pressure on gen wolf. Only when directly referenced by miss stranger is she brought into the mix.

Potential links already.

See above. He's actually attacking more than half the village. I can't tell if that's a good thing.

@James May:

Guess I can give out my reads on those who I have a slight feeling on, skimming through this because I have finals on two of my classes this week so I do apologize for not being active.

Good luck!

Miss Stranger: Aside from that minor derp up on the editing part, it seems like your leaning towards town atm, but I feel like you're being insistent on starting a wagon on gen wolf (although I may not be as experienced in this sort of scumreading/hunting as most people here) but we'll see how gen wolf goes on from this point.

Editing... oh, you too? -_- Aaaanyway. I'm actually not pushing for a wagon on Gen_Wolf, but acknowledging that one has formed (FI, Nacho and Generic). The reason I'm holding my vote back is because I

don't

want to vote Gen_Wolf just yet. He's now away which gives a good opportunity for Fegelein, Antagon and you to finally arrive on stage, and I also want to hear Champ's response.

Nacho: Aside from the "backseat scumhunting" that Fegelin pointed out, I can't point out exactly where to place you in atm, leaning slightly towards town maybe.

What do you think makes him town and what causes doubts?

Generic: So far providing interesting analysis upon other players on his first few posts, it looks like he's town at the moment but who knows, he could be playing a good scum cover-up, we'll see how it goes from there, as I haven't seen how his playstyle is, might look into previous games to find a good meta on him unless if its his first.

IMO for now Generic is the strongest town lead I've seen.

Gen wolf: Heh. Nice sarcastic remark in regards to simply lynching Miss Stranger. Not sure where Feel It (Was it Feel It? Might need to look through it again, but I think it was Feel It. if not was was Feglin) is going on with champin "buddying" you just for the compliment on that remark but i see little to no association with buddying/white knighting involving with that little agreement.

We established he commended on the result, not the remark, and the result made Feel It a pretty good dart target for Champ.

@James May:

Curious why you haven't mentioned Champ this far, who seems to be digging on you quite a lot already.

@Fegelein, Antagon:

I'd really like to see some more involvement from the two of you.

[Antagon]

Because lists like this should be posted with at least

some

reasoning behind it.
I ignored the read on Feel It and myself because everyone starts out being read as null. As the game goes on, it becomes easier to get reads on players.

That's not what I asked. I asked why you felt you needed to clarify post #29 by Miss Stranger but you didn't feel the need to clarify post #17 by Fegelein. Here is the post bolded for convenience:

She's fine at L-2.

Antagon is probably Town

.

Considering the above was a read on yourself I find it hard to accept you missed it.

This is a valid point.

Point conceded. However, I already knew

what

post Fegelein extracted a townread from. At that moment, I had only two posts: an RVS one and one explaining why wagons are the best way to get out of RVS.
In hindsight, it was a bad idea not to ask why Fegelein would post such an early townread.

[Gen_Wolf]

@Generic:

I am enjoying champinos über paranoia at anything said. You are one of the more experienced players aren't you?

I thought this was a newbie game, am I not meant to be imparting general wisdom as we go so newer players get better? Anyone auto clearing at this stage of a game is a fool, that was my essential point. I didn't think I had aimed that at anyone in particular, was just off on a little tangent. But hey, that's two goes you have had now to try and spin a case in me, will they all consist of you taking us on a little story as to what the hidden agenda was or will you occasionally point to actual scum tells rather than loose theory?

In the beginning Champ felt more of a townie to me, because it looked like he genuinely adressed different view points. It turns out he's actually digging into very isolated mentionings and not at the broader picture at all. Very selective scumhunting on Antagon's overlook, James's misread post, Generic's sleep patterns and a few other instances I already mentioned. Seems to get exsessively (gaaah, spelling?!) alarmed by "slips" and reacted violently when I poked his comments, which is something that just sits ill with me. On the other hand, he has a certain friction with more than half the village (Nacho, Generic, FI, Antagon, and lastly James and me), of which 4 people have been pressuring Gen_Wolf a lot. If Gen_Wolf turns out to be mafia, Champ is definitely next in line for me.

On the other hand, James and Antagon are simply enigmatic lurkers, so attacking them makes sense, though probably not for the reasons ("slips") he pointed. I really don't like this.

This is starting to bug me and I will finally say something. Miss Stranger, a lot of what you are saying is based on if's, and a lot of these 'if's' revolve around me. Firstly, IF Gen_Wolf is scum then Feel It is town and vice versa. Secondly, 'If' Gen is scum then Champ is next inline.

My grievances with this are, firstly, you are already playing Day 2. You are so sure that I am going to flip scum that when I don't you are going to be taking two steps back and thus not only would you have wasted day 1 but you will be spending day 2 starting a fresh. I am not saying that voting me is wrong, if you feel I am the most scummiest of players then please lay your vote down on me. However, what I do ask is stop making assumptions based on me being scum because I can promise you it is wrong and it will be a detriment to town inevitably. Thus, all I ask is play the game now for Day 1. If I do get voted off, then start making your decisions based on solid facts because you will know my alignment and thus there will be no need to speculate.

[Miss Stranger]

This is starting to bug me and I will finally say something. Miss Stranger, a lot of what you are saying is based on if's, and a lot of these 'if's' revolve around me. Firstly, IF Gen_Wolf is scum then Feel It is town and vice versa. Secondly, 'If' Gen is scum then Champ is next inline.

My grievances with this are, firstly, you are already playing Day 2. You are so sure that I am going to flip scum that when I don't you are going to be taking two steps back and thus not only would you have wasted day 1 but you will be spending day 2 starting a fresh. I am not saying that voting me is wrong, if you feel I am the most scummiest of players then please lay your vote down on me. However, what I do ask is stop making assumptions based on me being scum because I can promise you it is wrong and it will be a detriment to town inevitably. Thus, all I ask is play the game now for Day 1. If I do get voted off, then start making your decisions based on solid facts because you will know my alignment and thus there will be no need to speculate.

Heeeey aren't you supposed to be afk? (kidding, good thing you show up)

If I was dead sure you're scum, my vote would have already been on you. Since I'm not, nor do I think you are the scummiest, it's not. I admit you are pretty central to my reasoning so far, and that's because aside from me, 4 more players (FI, Generic, Nacho and Champ) are directly actively discussing on your behaviour. At this point you aren't scummy enough to deserve my vote, you are just scummy enough for me to have a "what if" about you. I wouldn't be surprised if you

don't

end up being lynched today, but it won't come unexpected.

I don't think I'm playing Day 2 just yet. I'm still sorting people into my town and mafia zone, and while you are a card I often toy with, you are *not* this central to me as you make it seem like. It's the vastly different opinions about you that make you central.

The fact you are genuinely frustrated about how I think you're scum is probably the first strong town vibe from you, and I'm glad you spoke up.

[Antagon]

This is starting to bug me and I will finally say something. Miss Stranger, a lot of what you are saying is based on if's, and a lot of these 'if's' revolve around me. Firstly, IF Gen_Wolf is scum then Feel It is town and vice versa. Secondly, 'If' Gen is scum then Champ is next inline.

My grievances with this are, firstly, you are already playing Day 2. You are so sure that I am going to flip scum that when I don't you are going to be taking two steps back and thus not only would you have wasted day 1 but you will be spending day 2 starting a fresh. I am not saying that voting me is wrong, if you feel I am the most scummiest of players then please lay your vote down on me. However, what I do ask is stop making assumptions based on me being scum because I can promise you it is wrong and it will be a detriment to town inevitably. Thus, all I ask is play the game now for Day 1. If I do get voted off, then start making your decisions based on solid facts because you will know my alignment and thus there will be no need to speculate.

Heeeey aren't you supposed to be afk? (kidding, good thing you show up)

If I was dead sure you're scum, my vote would have already been on you. Since I'm not, nor do I think you are the scummiest, it's not. I admit you are pretty central to my reasoning so far, and that's because aside from me, 4 more players (FI, Generic, Nacho and Champ) are directly actively discussing on your behaviour. At this point you aren't scummy enough to deserve my vote, you are just scummy enough for me to have a "what if" about you. I wouldn't be surprised if you

don't

end up being lynched today, but it won't come unexpected.

I don't think I'm playing Day 2 just yet. I'm still sorting people into my town and mafia zone, and while you are a card I often toy with, you are *not* this central to me as you make it seem like. It's the vastly different opinions about you that make you central.

The fact you are genuinely frustrated about how I think you're scum is probably the first strong town vibe from you, and I'm glad you spoke up.

I like that Miss Stranger tries to genuinely scumhunt, but this part seems to confuse me.
How would a non-fatalistic attitude give you a townvibe? Both town and scum would be frustrated if anyone thought they were scum. Town has a justifiable reason for being frustrated and scum would be frustrated because it's harder to achieve their objective of blending in with the town.
Unless Miss Stranger is seeing something I'm not...

[Generic]

Miss stranger might be taking something I said to her and running with it as a general rule. I hope that's not the case.

Because without making this too much of a lesson, we have only scratched the surface of mafia theory. For example a scum tell can be frustration and overreaction because scum tend to slip when they are being lynched on bad logic. When mafia players play they like to think they are presenting a very pro town image, so when a wagon forms on spurious or weak logic in their eyes emotion supercedes logical play and they begin to aggressively argue back against the logic.

That's just an example, doesn't fully apply here to gen wolf, but this being a newbie game it's worth noting that simple frustration is t always a town tell. It's the same as tunnelling, not always a town or scum tell. But that's a whole other area :p