League of Legends (Old)

[Phillammon]

...Panzer, when what your saying is not only at odds with the entirety of the rest of the thread, but those with a larger sample size support the conclusions of everyone else... it might be a good time to cut your losses and stop arguing it.

[Phillammon]

...Panzer, when what you're saying is not only at odds with the entirety of the rest of the thread, but those with a larger sample size support the conclusions of everyone else... it might be a good time to cut your losses and stop arguing it.

[PJ.]

Thread full of support mains, of course shitting all over supports is not a popular opinion.

It's not that I haven't played support in normals or I only have 11 support games ever or something. It's just the truth. You either gonna lose or you're gonna win and it has nothing to do with your wards, timers, or calls or any of that bullshit. It has to do with the rest of your team is mechanically better than the other team.

[Brandi]

No support main is capable of winning 75% of their games over the course of 60 or so games.

idk this guy hasn't duo'd for a single game
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/euw/42178802#history

(seriously though wth 51 wins 7 losses as support)

[Bub Bidderskins]

You know what a good support can do for you as ADC when you get matched with a bad support. No wards (or bad wards), dumb builds, no peel, getting caught out while warding. All of those things straight up lose games.

[quadz08]

NEVER GIVE UP

NEVER SURRENDER

ADMITTING DEFEAT IN INTERNET ARGUMENT IS FOR PUSSIES

[Cephrir]

You cannot possibly tell me you've never had a support get you a kill or feed badly enough to blow the game. That is just a straight up lie.

[PJ.]

I've been impressed by support play exactly once. I was just starting out as an AD carry and I was laning as corki with JD back when we were friends. He put in a lot of effort to get me some solid kills. But mostly, it was cause the other bot lane was absolutely horrible.

JD is Silver 5 and was probably Bronze back then. I would just as readily take him as my support as I would Brandi, probably the "best" support on site. There is no skill difference. They both hit R on Sona the exact same way. They both know how to protect the carry. The only difference is Brandi duo'd with people that could carry her and kept her MMR high. In high silver/low gold, all it takes to win as a support is not to make shitty mistakes and hope your team carries, which isn't exactly difficult.

Do supports make big plays? Yeah. Do they make bad plays? Yeah. A support is NEVER the reason you win or lose a lane(or game). You can ALWAYS make it up if you are a good ADC. ALWAYS. You're THE most important player. THE absolute decider of games. If you are good enough, your support play is irrelevant.

Fucking support mains thinking they know how to play League of Legends, give me a break. Shut up, sit in the bush, place 2 wards and stun/exhaust anyone that gets near. Most important is the shutting up.

[quadz08]

NEVER GIVE UP

NEVER SURRENDER

[PJ.]

Meh,bads gonna bad. Supports gonna believe they are important. Doesn't really matter what I say. Keep thinking the power of heart actually matters.

[Cephrir]

Yes, I'm sure your average silver support main is just as good as pro supports

[Cephrir]

I should probably give insert pro team here a call they definitely want me

[mykonian]

I've been impressed by support play exactly once. I was just starting out as an AD carry and I was laning as corki with JD back when we were friends. He put in a lot of effort to get me some solid kills. But mostly, it was cause the other bot lane was absolutely horrible.

JD is Silver 5 and was probably Bronze back then. I would just as readily take him as my support as I would Brandi, probably the "best" support on site. There is no skill difference. They both hit R on Sona the exact same way. They both know how to protect the carry. The only difference is Brandi duo'd with people that could carry her and kept her MMR high. In high silver/low gold, all it takes to win as a support is not to make shitty mistakes and hope your team carries, which isn't exactly difficult.

Do supports make big plays? Yeah. Do they make bad plays? Yeah. A support is NEVER the reason you win or lose a lane(or game). You can ALWAYS make it up if you are a good ADC. ALWAYS. You're THE most important player. THE absolute decider of games. If you are good enough, your support play is irrelevant.

Fucking support mains thinking they know how to play League of Legends, give me a break. Shut up, sit in the bush, place 2 wards and stun/exhaust anyone that gets near. Most important is the shutting up.

If I didn't think you meant it this would be rather funny.

And I wouldn't respond if I thought you were trolling. Like anyone, I'm not really into being trolled. Anyone could have posted this and I'd have said it was the most obvious troll ever. 2nd paragraph hidden insult, caps, and telling people to shut up (on MS, hah, reverse psychology!). Like, how obvious can a troll post get? But you? You are actually serious.

[JDodge]

I've been impressed by support play exactly once. I was just starting out as an AD carry and I was laning as corki with JD back when we were friends. He put in a lot of effort to get me some solid kills. But mostly, it was cause the other bot lane was absolutely horrible.

JD is Silver 5 and was probably Bronze back then. I would just as readily take him as my support as I would Brandi, probably the "best" support on site. There is no skill difference. They both hit R on Sona the exact same way. They both know how to protect the carry. The only difference is Brandi duo'd with people that could carry her and kept her MMR high. In high silver/low gold, all it takes to win as a support is not to make shitty mistakes and hope your team carries, which isn't exactly difficult.

Do supports make big plays? Yeah. Do they make bad plays? Yeah. A support is NEVER the reason you win or lose a lane(or game). You can ALWAYS make it up if you are a good ADC. ALWAYS. You're THE most important player. THE absolute decider of games. If you are good enough, your support play is irrelevant.

Fucking support mains thinking they know how to play League of Legends, give me a break. Shut up, sit in the bush, place 2 wards and stun/exhaust anyone that gets near. Most important is the shutting up.

i'd actually make your argument against supports stronger with the following:

It is shitloads easier to lose a game playing support badly (hence my losing streaks while relearning the role) than it is to win a game playing support perfectly. The reason why support mains get shat on by solo queue is because they:

A) Allow themselves to get shat on and outright throw games for their team (I have a large tendency to do this, hence why I don't climb the ladder - I favor a relatively all-in build that doesn't work well for solo queue but is too instinctive to me to break out of using constantly, and I play way more aggressive than I should on a lot of really squishy things)

B) Do not do everything possible within their power to get their

team

to do well (being a successful support player is not just about your own mechanical skill or ability to take timers/ward/whatever - it is moreso than other roles about your ability to keep your team focused and try to defuse arguments as much as possible, as its just as likely you'll lose the game because Kha'zix is annoyed at Nautilus as it is likely that you will win because of a brilliant ult, for example)

C) Do not use their abilities properly (bad exhausts lose lanes, bad ults lose lanes, bad hooks lose lanes, bad everything loses lanes - just because you can doesn't mean you should, and sometimes this applies to letting the other side's support screw themselves over. Do you really always want to avoid getting hooked by the Blitzcrank if you're playing Leona and it puts you in a position to easily lock down their AD with all of Blitz's cds down?)

D) Play low-impact supports for solo queue (Janna can as much outright win games with good ults as lose them by normally being a reactive support, Sona's ult is ridiculous for a support, good Thresh/Blitz hooks can win games; Lulu, for example, has a much, much harder time being absolutely crucial in a fight outside of her ult)

E) Ward poorly (think about what vision you actually need for whatever your team is going to be doing next and go for that, don't just place ward X in spot Y because you saw it on a chart by a pro player) and get caught counter-warding/clearing (please for the love of god remember that oracles doesnt make you invisible to wards)

The lack of support players properly doing

all

of these things is historically why outside of higher levels, supports are anywhere from coinflips to outright losing propositions in solo queue.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8N5yTdGhIU

[Hinduragi]

Do supports make big plays? Yeah. Do they make bad plays? Yeah. A support is NEVER the reason you win or lose a lane(or game). You can ALWAYS make it up if you are a good ADC. ALWAYS. You're THE most important player. THE absolute decider of games. If you are good enough, your support play is irrelevant.

Are you trolling?

[Ankamius]

He has to be. That's a fallacious argument.

[TehBrawlGuy]

Panz, as someone who won >2/3rds of his Leona and Nunu games climbing from Silver IV to Gold IV, stop talking.

You do not know what you are talking about.

Lol yeah, you got carried. You also duo'd with a shit load of people that were way better than you which boosts MMR. You're a scrub that lucked into gold with a 51% win rate. Supports get carried. That's it.

My winrate with support is something like 80%. I didn't do shit in any of those games.

Almost all of the games I played climbing were soloq, actually. The few duos were mostly with randoms I got paired up with, so they had similar MMRs.

I had a shit W/L record in Silver. I've won like 25-30 more games than I've lost since I started to climb.

[Cephrir]

I lose more when I duo with my IRL friend even though he's better than me =(

[Brandi]

Panzer most of my wins to gold were not duo's, and almost all of my series games I won by myself. (I lost more games duoing with meru than winning, for example)
A lot of the time when I do duo its with someone who wants to BE carried, not carry me. <_<;

[TehBrawlGuy]

Got 6300. Kha or Thresh?

[Brandi]

Thresh! Hes tough though.

[Llamarble]

Anyone can time stuff and try to be a leader / reduce the team madness-level.

[InflatablePie]

Got 6300. Kha or Thresh?

I like Kha, personally. He's fun (especially on ARAMs and Dominion, if you need quick wins).

[Brandi]

Anyone can time stuff and try to be a leader / reduce the team madness-level.

Yeah, that sort of thing is something everyone SHOULD be doing to the best of their ability, it's part of a being a better, more efficient player in general.
Warding as well.