Newbie 1391 - Game Over - FINALLY!!!

[Generic]

And if you really want me to bore ya, ask me about my 'head vs gut' theory

[Fegelein]

I think many of you are missing that it was an early town-read on Antagon, subject to change. TBH, Antagon doesn't come across as scum, despite his active lurking.

I can chalk up a James May and Nacho scum team here, James for saying "I'm changing my playstyle because I screwed up last time" screams scum, and Nacho's play correlates with his scum meta.

[Fegelein]

If I missed any questions, redirect them to me, busy as hell atm.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Vote Count 1.3

James May - 1 (Antagon)
Miss Stranger - 2 (champinoman, Gen_Wolf)
Gen_Wolf - 2 (Feel It, Nachomamma8)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Fegelein)

Not Voting - 3 (Generic, James May, Miss Stranger)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-06-30 08:00:00)

.

[James May]

I can chalk up a James May and Nacho scum team here,

James for saying "I'm changing my playstyle because I screwed up last time" screams scum

, and Nacho's play correlates with his scum meta.

Uhhh...ok? Is it a crime to change playstyle because of bad town play previous game? I don't think so. And if that's really the only basis that you have then I'm sorry your read on me is invalid. Please try again Fegelein.

[Fegelein]

No, but it does seem to me like a bad justification, trying to say "I do this as Town too, even though I didn't in my last game"

Looking at the Votecount, you're also frightened to throw a vote down, which sort of correlates with over-cautiousnesses.

[Miss Stranger]

@Antagon and Generic:

This is starting to bug me and I will finally say something. Miss Stranger, a lot of what you are saying is based on if's, and a lot of these 'if's' revolve around me. Firstly, IF Gen_Wolf is scum then Feel It is town and vice versa. Secondly, 'If' Gen is scum then Champ is next inline.

My grievances with this are, firstly, you are already playing Day 2. You are so sure that I am going to flip scum that when I don't you are going to be taking two steps back and thus not only would you have wasted day 1 but you will be spending day 2 starting a fresh. I am not saying that voting me is wrong, if you feel I am the most scummiest of players then please lay your vote down on me. However, what I do ask is stop making assumptions based on me being scum because I can promise you it is wrong and it will be a detriment to town inevitably. Thus, all I ask is play the game now for Day 1. If I do get voted off, then start making your decisions based on solid facts because you will know my alignment and thus there will be no need to speculate.

I might be relying on emotional tells too much, but in this post Gen_Wolf appears to be:

1) Frustrated that in his opinion all my reasoning relies on him being scum, which is wrong, and I'm essentially wasting time and hurting the town. This can of course be disguised scum fatalistic attitude, essentially trying to hold my reasoning back, but that's the less probable case IMO.
2) Frustrated that I'm a person he seemingly trusts, but I don't believe him, i.e. "I'm bloody innocent, I know I can't prove it, but can't you just believe me for heaven's sake?!". I think it's way harder to fake this reaction as scum, because scum know they aren't innocent. In this sense, scum frustration would be along the lines of "Damn, I screwed up", which is vastly different and difficult to morph into a genuine emotional reaction.

What I mean to say is that on a purely emotional level Gen_Wolf seems more a desperate townie who is frustrated by mistrust than a desperate scum who is frustrated with himself. We all know that feeling when your lie doesn't work and you get caught, and I don't think this is what Gen_Wolf is portraying. Then again, it's difficult to read between the lines of forum mafia, and I might just be incorrectly falling back on my sensitive and emotional personality. I just think we should indeed steer focus away from Gen_Wolf for a while and collect some information from these individuals:

• Nachomamma8
  - I really want a broad analysis from him (T/S list?), because most of what he's currently doing is asking questions and reading selectively. His only opinions so far have been on Generic, myself and Gen_Wolf.
  
• Antagon
  - Really, REALLY selective reading. Only answers direct questions relating to himself. Was much more active in the beginning, but then quickly hid behind the curtains. If he is town, he isn't really contributing, and has no explanation for that, which makes him in the best case, a bad town. VOTE: Antagon
  
• Fegelein
  - Dropping a line once or twice a day. I observed his other games (currently) and it seems the case there. So he's not so much lurking than indeed being busy as hell. However, I would like to direct his attention to this post in anoher game:

  Why do I feel Derivan is scum?
  
  He makes really long-winded posts which personally appear to me as contrived, and he's fence sitting, locking himself down into ultra defence, without throwing down any vote. He seems to be keen only to advance his own agendas in the game atm.
  
  Also, goodmorning, you've still avoided to say why I am scum.

  See, this feels better than "James May acknoledges changing playstyle, which is very scummy, and Nacho is playing his scum meta". What is scummy about James May and how is Nacho's town meta different from his scum meta?
  
• James May
  - I don't personally think he's scum right now, from what little information I have, but he's not obviously town either, so I'll just wait until he's better involved.
  
• Champinoman
  - For the most part he (used to) look fine. I don't like his obsession with slips. I await an explanation why they are so important to him. I also don't like his "you're scummy for attacking him/me" attitude. In general I get the impression he finds everybody scummy, which isn't quite useful, so I request a T/S list.

[Generic]

Gen wolf might be frustrated at the logic that was being used to suspect him on. But he might also be town. That's the game.

And I think your issue with chdmpino is odd. Scumslips are effective in finding mafia, so there is nothing wrong with that. Selective attacking and having an arguement based on your own assumptions is not so great.

[Miss Stranger]

But that's the problem, you can't say for sure if something is a scumslip or simply an innocent line. Are the following scumslips?

- admiting to being asleep during the day as an excuse for joining 6h later into the game
- overlooking a post
- merging posts together
- addressing different discussion in the same post
- admitting town is more likely to slip than scum and it's unreliable

He's had a significant reaction to the following "slips", and I just don't think it's justified. These aren't true "scumslips".

[James May]

@ Gen Wolf:

Feg, I'm trying to be a bit more cautious this time because the last game i played I jumped the gun on a lynch that costed me the game >_> (was town that game btw) and I don't have solid reads on anyone but the questions was merely out of curiosity to see their reasoning. Better to survey the area from afar (well for me at least since I am trying to stop jumping the bullet for long phases like this :/ Use to playing 48-96 hour day phases and it requires a bit of on your feet kind of thing...)

Mr May, why do you feel the need to express you were townie in that game, in particular. Surely, it is irrelevant? Yet you still need to mention it?

Well because most people would probably assume that I was scum at that game. Also, I've never rolled scum once through out my entire mafia/werewolf game and if you wish to see the games that I have played on the site that I come from then I am more than happy to post them here.

@Champin

Feg, I'm trying to be a bit more cautious this time because the last game i played I jumped the gun on a lynch

that costed me the game

>_> (was town that game btw) and I don't have solid reads on anyone but the questions was merely out of curiosity to see their reasoning. Better to survey the area from afar (well for me at least since I am trying to stop jumping the bullet for long phases like this :/ Use to playing 48-96 hour day phases and it requires a bit of on your feet kind of thing...)

*IF* you are town and you manage to either get yourself lynched or nightkilled wouldn't you prefer that you helped out before dying?

And the bolded part is interesting. You know that you, as a dead townie (in that game), still win if town wins right? This is a team game not a solo quest.

Please refer to Miss Stranger's post below

No. He said he was trigger happy and mislynched and lost the game. You read the entire post wrong.

Also, that mislynch that happened, on the next day phase I got insta'd & town lost the game. That's what I meant by costing me the game.


@Miss Stranger:

@James May:

Guess I can give out my reads on those who I have a slight feeling on, skimming through this because I have finals on two of my classes this week so I do apologize for not being active.

Good luck!

Miss Stranger: Aside from that minor derp up on the editing part, it seems like your leaning towards town atm, but I feel like you're being insistent on starting a wagon on gen wolf (although I may not be as experienced in this sort of scumreading/hunting as most people here) but we'll see how gen wolf goes on from this point.

Editing... oh, you too? -_- Aaaanyway. I'm actually not pushing for a wagon on Gen_Wolf, but acknowledging that one has formed (FI, Nacho and Generic). The reason I'm holding my vote back is because I

don't

want to vote Gen_Wolf just yet. He's now away which gives a good opportunity for Fegelein, Antagon and you to finally arrive on stage, and I also want to hear Champ's response.

Nacho: Aside from the "backseat scumhunting" that Fegelin pointed out, I can't point out exactly where to place you in atm, leaning slightly towards town maybe.

What do you think makes him town and what causes doubts?

Generic: So far providing interesting analysis upon other players on his first few posts, it looks like he's town at the moment but who knows, he could be playing a good scum cover-up, we'll see how it goes from there, as I haven't seen how his playstyle is, might look into previous games to find a good meta on him unless if its his first.

IMO for now Generic is the strongest town lead I've seen.

Gen wolf: Heh. Nice sarcastic remark in regards to simply lynching Miss Stranger. Not sure where Feel It (Was it Feel It? Might need to look through it again, but I think it was Feel It. if not was was Feglin) is going on with champin "buddying" you just for the compliment on that remark but i see little to no association with buddying/white knighting involving with that little agreement.

We established he commended on the result, not the remark, and the result made Feel It a pretty good dart target for Champ.

@James May:

Curious why you haven't mentioned Champ this far, who seems to be digging on you quite a lot already.]

I'd have to look into champ later on via the ISOs. In regards to Nacho, the reason why I have doubts about him is because there's a possibility that he could be scum IC, but for me to fully understand everyone's gameplay I'd have to look through their most recent games either on here or on a different website where they come from. As for Generic, yes he is the strongest town read at this moment but like I said, who knows how it would go later on in the game. As for Gen Wolf, in my personal opinion, it's better to wait until we find a more solid basis to vote on him. Just like everyone else. Despite three days passed already, there's really not much ground to vote for anyone except for a few minor slips here and there.

@Feg: Not really. It's more of being cautious and analyzing the players here. Like I said, where I come from, its a bit more fast paced (well, compared to this its way faster in terms of the time length) with a 48 to 96 hour day phase and usually a 24 hour night phase, which would require to nitpick on the slightest detail and quick rational thinking in it. But, in here since we have a 2 week day phase and a 48 hour night phase (please correct me on that part if I'm wrong, I usually don't look at the thread during night phases here).

[champinoman]

Then I have an incorrect impression champino. I have looked at the DATE, it was Sunday... I'm a father if three... It was Father's Day on Sunday, so forgive my lack if interest in logging into this over enjoying family time.

I generally assume when I come in late to a lot of posts it's cos the majority of you are Americans. And I do work shifts, so expect very random posting times, but that wasnt the reason this time.

Cheers. You did just make me google search when Father's day is here in case I missed it though!

And what erratic sleep pattern?

One of your first posts, and my question:

...

@champinoman, you guys had been on while I was asleep (I'm English) ...
...

...

And a side note: Considering the game started at aprox 1pm (England time) and your first post was at 8.30pm why did you use being asleep as justification for not reading the first phase of voting?

I'm waiting to hear your explanation because currently it seems like a pretty poorly constructed excuse.

Why do you demand explanations about people's erratic sleep patterns? That's a ridiculous thing to hang on to. He joined the game later and briefly mentioned why. You are overweighting innocent actions.

Firstly, I wasn't demanding an answer. I only repeated the question once as it appears it was glossed over.

Secondly, if you caught someone out who you were pretty sure wasn't telling the truth would you call them on it? I would, and I did.

And here is my logic: When he stated that he had been asleep he explicitly mentioned he was English so that we could associate where he was and why he was asleep. However, my girlfriend is currently backpacking in England so I didn't even have to think to realise that the time he was referring to was in the middle of the day. And that fact he mentioned that he was English and didn't mention anything about working nightshift (or etc.) is the reason I knew he had normal sleeping habits that day.

As it turns out my suspicions that what he had written was inaccurate were true. However I'm not sure what I hoped to achieve in resolving that.

I am enjoying champinos über paranoia at anything said. You are one of the more experienced players aren't you?

Not really experienced but have read a few games. I participated in a game about a year ago, but the site died mid game and I struggled to get back into it after a month long break.

And yes I'm paranoid, and will continue to be!

Btw, something of note.

Champino has so far chose to dissect my posts to death, down to my comments on time and story time about my motives... Can't seem to find a single comment on gen wolf beyond him getting quite reactive when I pointed out his positive comment towards him.

In fact I find it hard to find a strong focus from him on anyone outside of me and feel it who both have put pressure on gen wolf. Only when directly referenced by miss stranger is she brought into the mix.

Potential links already.

I will agree that I have questioned you more than any other in the game so far. However I would not say that this is because I think you are scummy. Quite the opposite in fact.

In regards to me not mentioning much about Gen_Wolf; So far I have only seen one thing that has concerned me from his play and believe it or not it isn't his apparent scumtell trying to get Miss Stranger lynched. It is that he called his sarcasm a deliberate reaction test and I'm not sure whether or not I believe that. However, everyone else jumped all over this so I didn't jump on that bandwagon and decided to concentrate on things that nobody else had mentioned. This doesn't mean I didn't follow what happened though. He just hasn't done anything else since then really and I'm finding it hard to believe that he is the one everyone is going after based on this one comment. It deserves to be looked at but I feel we are flogging a dead horse.

Editing... oh, you too? -_- Aaaanyway. I'm actually not pushing for a wagon on Gen_Wolf, but acknowledging that one has formed (FI, Nacho and Generic). The reason I'm holding my vote back is because I

don't

want to vote Gen_Wolf just yet. He's now away which gives a good opportunity for Fegelein, Antagon and you to finally arrive on stage, and I also want to hear Champ's response.

Following on from my previous point; excluding what happened in the first 2 pages what reasons do you have for voting Gen_Wolf? I can't see any excluding those 2 pages which makes me wonder why you need to hear what others think about the issue before placing your vote. To me it looks like you are scared to look accountable if he flips town.

I can chalk up a James May and Nacho scum team here, James for saying "I'm changing my playstyle because I screwed up last time" screams scum, and Nacho's play correlates with his scum meta.

Why bother with day 1 and 2. Lets just lynch James May and Nacho now and tomorrow and win? We are already onto both scum.

I think many of you are missing that it was an early town-read on Antagon, subject to change. TBH, Antagon doesn't come across as scum, despite his active lurking.

So posting minimal amounts that don't contribute anything to scum hunting is enough to declare that he doesn't come across as scum? I'm glad you dropped in to share this gem.

I can chalk up a James May and Nacho scum team here,

James for saying "I'm changing my playstyle because I screwed up last time" screams scum

, and Nacho's play correlates with his scum meta.

Uhhh...ok? Is it a crime to change playstyle because of bad town play previous game? I don't think so. And if that's really the only basis that you have then I'm sorry your read on me is invalid. Please try again Fegelein.

Hook. Line. and Sinker. And really fast too considering you have been nowhere to be found lately.

[James May]

Hook. Line. and Sinker. And really fast too considering you have been nowhere to be found lately.

Nope. If you're basing on that then I'm sorry you don't have a case against me other than what Feg mentioned. But seriously, try to have some logic in it

[Miss Stranger]

@Champinoman

Following on from my previous point; excluding what happened in the first 2 pages what reasons do you have for voting Gen_Wolf? I can't see any excluding those 2 pages which makes me wonder why you need to hear what others think about the issue before placing your vote. To me it looks like you are scared to look accountable if he flips town.

Except I never voted Gen_Wolf if we exclude the joke RVS vote, so your question is first of all worded incorrectly. What I believe is scummy about him was first his odd behaviour during RVS, then his nervousness and poor explanations, and in general the clingy survival attitude he exhibits, which can have three possible explanations:
1) he believes he's too valuable an asset to the town
2) he's scum
3) he's genuinely interested in the game and doesn't want to get out so early
I'm only considering the third one because I try to keep a broad horizon. Clearly Gen_Wolf is very uncomfortable, but I believe he tries to genuinely scumhunt despite his nervousness, as shown in his latest posts (sorry, bit short on time so I can't look up the number right now). He isn't attacking his attackers, he isn't trying to derail the wagon onto someone else, he's probing the soil and looking for suspects as best as he can. I have mixed feelings about him, I definitely don't trust him, but overall now I think it's worth to hear what he has to say if we lessen the pressure.
And to answer your suspicions, no, I'm not afraid to look accountable for lynching an innocent. I'm afraid of mislynching out of stupidity and narrow horizon before all other options and opinions are considered.

[champinoman]

Champinoman

- For the most part he (used to) look fine. I don't like his obsession with slips. I await an explanation why they are so important to him. I also don't like his "you're scummy for attacking him/me" attitude. In general I get the impression he finds everybody scummy, which isn't quite useful, so I request a T/S list.

I do find everybody scummy and I think it would be unwise to think otherwise.

Here is what I am currently thinking even though this day is still very young:

Antagon

and

Nachomamma8

are supposed to be our SE and IC however between them they have posted the least in terms of scum hunting. Both seem content in sitting back and not actively contributing. Considering this game is 3 days old I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at the moment that they have been busy. However if this continues then it moves from unlucky timing to deliberate avoidance.

Fegelein

is more active than the 2 above but only just. I want to hear more from him because I like what I have seen so far. however, he has posted so little it's impossible to justify a read either way.

Gen_Wolf

hasn't really posted too much other than defending himself over 'the incident' on page 1. As I mentioned in my previous post, I wasn't overly impressed by his claim it was a deliberate reaction test, however this isn't enough for me to be convinced that he is scum.

Generic

is the one person I consider to be leaning town at the moment. I have been happy with the way he has answered anything put at him and also in the way that he has queried others.

Feel It

came out of the blocks hard and fast and was riding the Gen_Wolf bandwagon hard. However, since momentum on that seems to have slowed a little he has vanished. I'm finding it hard to get a read on him with so little to go on.

James May

is another that is hard to get a read on due to complete lack of activity. His recent post was the first time that he has shared an opinion on someone and I liked what I read. However, it is very minimal. If you are used to playing faster paced games then surely this slow style of play is not your norm? And your fast reactions to different people mentioning your name in the last few hours seems to heavily suggest lurking. Dive in and scum hunt!

Miss Stranger

... hmmmm... what to think? I have changed my mind so many times in these last 3 days trying to decide if you are scummy, overeager or even just new to this. Currently I would have to say that I think you are leaning scum. The big thing annoying me right now is that you have lined up a bunch of 'if this happens then' scenarios. These will be very interesting to look back at in day 2. I can't help but feel that you are trying to create scenarios that set people up (myself included) so that you are not an obvious lynch candidate.

[champinoman]

Hook. Line. and Sinker. And really fast too considering you have been nowhere to be found lately.

Nope. If you're basing on that then I'm sorry you don't have a case against me other than what Feg mentioned. But seriously, try to have some logic in it

James May, I never said I thought you were scum. I merely said you feel for his bait which was almost completely unsubstantiated. But your lurking ways popped out again when I mentioned your name

Except I never voted Gen_Wolf if we exclude the joke RVS vote, so your question is first of all worded incorrectly.

No, it isn't. I was referring to the vote you intended to place if more people supported your cause. I clearly stated in the following sentence that your vote hadn't been placed yet.

What I believe is scummy about him was first his odd behaviour during RVS, then his nervousness and poor explanations, and in general the clingy survival attitude he exhibits, which can have three possible explanations:
1) he believes he's too valuable an asset to the town
2) he's scum
3) he's genuinely interested in the game and doesn't want to get out so early
I'm only considering the third one because I try to keep a broad horizon. Clearly Gen_Wolf is very uncomfortable, but I believe he tries to genuinely scumhunt despite his nervousness, as shown in his latest posts (sorry, bit short on time so I can't look up the number right now). He isn't attacking his attackers, he isn't trying to derail the wagon onto someone else, he's probing the soil and looking for suspects as best as he can. I have mixed feelings about him, I definitely don't trust him, but overall now I think it's worth to hear what he has to say if we lessen the pressure.
And to answer your suspicions, no, I'm not afraid to look accountable for lynching an innocent. I'm afraid of mislynching out of stupidity and narrow horizon before all other options and opinions are considered.

4) he's town and wants town to win. <--- 7 of us are playing this way but clearly not you.

I'm also not too impressed with another round of PR fishing.

And I don't see any negatives in your description of how he is reacting to all of this pressure. In fact, the way you have written it actually makes me consider that he might be a bigger town read than I gave him credit for earlier.

[Feel It]

I haven't said much for a while so some general thoughts;

Fegelein- He's kept to his usual short and occasional posting style. Seems a little... narrow minded, he already seems to think he knows who the scum are when there's no link between them and the case against Nach seems pretty weak to me. (Although i appreciate him him trying to pressure a player a lot of people are letting slide by) Null, slightly scum because something about him just seems off.

Generic- I can't see anything suspicious about him, seems intent on helping the town.

Miss Stranger- Similar to Generic, but she over thinks things. Also, what makes you think James May is less scummy than Antagon?

Champinoman- Hasn't been very involved in the game. A lot of people have town reads on him but I'm not convinced. He does ask some good questions and make good observations though. I don't like his subtle buddying with Gen_Wolf. The only thing you found suspicious was him saying it was a reaction test? I'm not convinced he's scum but he dropped more scumtells than that. He's also trying to discredit Miss Stranger's view on Gen_Wolf as well.

Nacho- I have a similar view to him as Generic really: he's fairly a fairly aggressive and strong player and I can't get much of a read on him. If I went by my gut he's town though.

James May- lol, he started off lurking and has since become more involved but he's only really managed to make himself look worse. His cautiousness and refusal to take a strong stance on anyone is making himself an easy target for people to attack and is not helping the town. Gonna have to go with scum, although I'm worried he's just a townie acting stupid.

Antagon- What's up with this guy? Just hasn't done anything and given a few useless posts. Scummy.

Gen_Wolf- He made the comment we all heard of but his reaction to the pressure he got from it was even worse. He got very aggressive and jumpy and started an OMGUS on me, a really weak and illogical one as well which he couldn't back up. Since then he's changed his opinion and been saying I'm town? He's been acting more helpful and town now though thankfully.

[James May]

James May

is another that is hard to get a read on due to complete lack of activity. His recent post was the first time that he has shared an opinion on someone and I liked what I read. However, it is very minimal. If you are used to playing faster paced games then surely this slow style of play is not your norm? And your fast reactions to different people mentioning your name in the last few hours seems to heavily suggest lurking. Dive in and scum hunt!

I do admit that I'm lurking since I have to remind myself that the phases aren't 2 - 4 days long and need to calmly take my time with each post that are up heh. Gives me a bit more time to fully flesh out what I need to do. Yeah its a change of pace but in the long run it would benefit me. Anyhow, I do have a T/S list that I have written up in my notebook so I'll just flesh it out in a nutshell (but will change depending on the events of the game

Strong Town

Generic

Town

Miss Stranger

Null-Town

Nacho

Null

Fegelein
Feel It
Gen Wolf
Champin
Antagon

Null-Scum

N/A

Scum

N/A

Strong Scum

N/A

Now, the ones that are Null-Town to Null-Scum (although there aren't any in Null-Scum atm) I need to read up on the ISOs separately to get a full idea on who is what and not jump the bullet. But I feel like the strongest Town read, on my end at least, is Generic as I could fully understand everything what he is saying with each post that he puts. Though Feel It has vanished from the radar (probably from rl-related issues?), Gen Wolf is V/LA & Nacho is sort of in this "backseat scumhunting" zone. I suppose that the meta of each of them would help out immensely in my reads and probably need to scope in on past games to get the general idea of their town/scum metas. As for Champin & Antag, it's also a matter of meta that needs to be fleshed out so that I can also understand their gameplay. I know that I'm mentioning meta a few times but I personally feel that on this phase using a player's meta from previous game to get a general idea of their typical town/scum meta would help a lot in here, especially for the SE/IC that are here.

But for now, basing on this phase so far, VOTE: Antagon, where are you? It would be nice to see some productive posts here :/
Might change it depending on further readings.

@Feel It

James May- lol, he started off lurking and has since become more involved but he's only really managed to make himself look worse. His cautiousness and refusal to take a strong stance on anyone is making himself an easy target for people to attack and is not helping the town. Gonna have to go with scum, although I'm worried he's just a townie acting stupid.

Clearly you didn't read the reason why I was lurking in the first place...and you didn't read the reason why I'm being cautious...gotta stop jumping to conclusions man.

[Feel It]

James May

is another that is hard to get a read on due to complete lack of activity. His recent post was the first time that he has shared an opinion on someone and I liked what I read. However, it is very minimal. If you are used to playing faster paced games then surely this slow style of play is not your norm? And your fast reactions to different people mentioning your name in the last few hours seems to heavily suggest lurking. Dive in and scum hunt!

I do admit that I'm lurking since I have to remind myself that the phases aren't 2 - 4 days long and need to calmly take my time with each post that are up heh. Gives me a bit more time to fully flesh out what I need to do. Yeah its a change of pace but in the long run it would benefit me. Anyhow, I do have a T/S list that I have written up in my notebook so I'll just flesh it out in a nutshell (but will change depending on the events of the game

Strong Town

Generic

Town

Miss Stranger

Null-Town

Nacho

Null

Fegelein
Feel It
Gen Wolf
Champin
Antagon

Null-Scum

N/A

Scum

N/A

Strong Scum

N/A

Now, the ones that are Null-Town to Null-Scum (although there aren't any in Null-Scum atm) I need to read up on the ISOs separately to get a full idea on who is what and not jump the bullet. But I feel like the strongest Town read, on my end at least, is Generic as I could fully understand everything what he is saying with each post that he puts. Though Feel It has vanished from the radar (probably from rl-related issues?), Gen Wolf is V/LA & Nacho is sort of in this "backseat scumhunting" zone. I suppose that the meta of each of them would help out immensely in my reads and probably need to scope in on past games to get the general idea of their town/scum metas. As for Champin & Antag, it's also a matter of meta that needs to be fleshed out so that I can also understand their gameplay. I know that I'm mentioning meta a few times but I personally feel that on this phase using a player's meta from previous game to get a general idea of their typical town/scum meta would help a lot in here, especially for the SE/IC that are here.

But for now, basing on this phase so far, VOTE: Antagon, where are you? It would be nice to see some productive posts here :/
Might change it depending on further readings.

@Feel It

James May- lol, he started off lurking and has since become more involved but he's only really managed to make himself look worse. His cautiousness and refusal to take a strong stance on anyone is making himself an easy target for people to attack and is not helping the town. Gonna have to go with scum, although I'm worried he's just a townie acting stupid.

Clearly you didn't read the reason why I was lurking in the first place...and you didn't read the reason why I'm being cautious...gotta stop jumping to conclusions man.

No, I saw why, you didn't want to jump to conclusions and stuff, but people will just call that indecisiveness, and if you're a townie then getting yourself lynched and attacked and asking yourself target won't help.

[Feel It]

I... messed up my wording there sorry *blushes*

[champinoman]

Champinoman- Hasn't been very involved in the game. A lot of people have town reads on him but I'm not convinced. He does ask some good questions and make good observations though. I don't like his subtle buddying with Gen_Wolf. The only thing you found suspicious was him saying it was a reaction test? I'm not convinced he's scum but he dropped more scumtells than that. He's also trying to discredit Miss Stranger's view on Gen_Wolf as well.

...

Gen_Wolf- He made the comment we all heard of but his reaction to the pressure he got from it was even worse. He got very aggressive and jumpy and started an OMGUS on me, a really weak and illogical one as well which he couldn't back up. Since then he's changed his opinion and been saying I'm town? He's been acting more helpful and town now though thankfully.

I haven't been very involved with the game? Did you have a glance at the post count and assume that because I have a low post count (due to putting everything into one post every night) that I haven't been involved?

The case I have apparently been trying to derail against Miss Stranger is the exact same case I am pressing to you. Other than Gen_Wolf's first page blunder, what has he done? All I can see if someone defending them self. I know people will say I'm defending him but nobody has actually answered this question. And considering people keep mentioning this 'scum slip' I am forced to continue asking this same question.

[James May]

@Feel It: Nah its alright.

Anyhow, have to prepare for my final in a bit so I'll pop back in in a while. Wish me luck.

[Feel It]

Champinoman- Hasn't been very involved in the game. A lot of people have town reads on him but I'm not convinced. He does ask some good questions and make good observations though. I don't like his subtle buddying with Gen_Wolf. The only thing you found suspicious was him saying it was a reaction test? I'm not convinced he's scum but he dropped more scumtells than that. He's also trying to discredit Miss Stranger's view on Gen_Wolf as well.

...

Gen_Wolf- He made the comment we all heard of but his reaction to the pressure he got from it was even worse. He got very aggressive and jumpy and started an OMGUS on me, a really weak and illogical one as well which he couldn't back up. Since then he's changed his opinion and been saying I'm town? He's been acting more helpful and town now though thankfully.

I haven't been very involved with the game? Did you have a glance at the post count and assume that because I have a low post count (due to putting everything into one post every night) that I haven't been involved?

The case I have apparently been trying to derail against Miss Stranger is the exact same case I am pressing to you. Other than Gen_Wolf's first page blunder, what has he done? All I can see if someone defending them self. I know people will say I'm defending him but nobody has actually answered this question. And considering people keep mentioning this 'scum slip' I am forced to continue asking this same question.

I just said there right in the comment you quoted why he was scummy.

[Miss Stranger]

@Champinoman:

You are trying to imply somehow that I know I'm an obvious lynch candidate but try not to be. This according to you is justified with my "if/then" scenarios, which he thinks aim to guide future lynches. I already explained why this is not true - I'm only looking for links to the best of my ability. What I said about Gen_Wolf turning scum doesn't make Feel It town or you scum, but raises my suspicions. Since when my suspicions alone decide who gets lynched? I don't think it serves town's interest to withhold any observations I might acquire, given I might die Night 1, which is why I try to say everything. I like to think in advance and if/then is something I always keep an eye out for, not just in mafia games. Your speculation about my motivation is paranoid and wrong.

No, it isn't. I was referring to the vote you intended to place if more people supported your cause. I clearly stated in the following sentence that your vote hadn't been placed yet.

My bad. I thought you literally meant I've put a vote on Gen_Wolf.

4) he's town and wants town to win. <--- 7 of us are playing this way but clearly not you.

Excessive survivalist attitude during Day 1 is not attributed to "I'm town and I want to win". This is something I find scummy about Gen_Wolf. Town has majority and shouldn't be concerned about being lynched more than about finding the scum. In my past few posts I've been trying to relieve the pressure on Gen_Wolf and give him a chance to find scum instead of fighting for his life. You seem to omit essential parts of my posts and use aggressive open accusations which are clearly baseless. What makes you think I "clearly don't want town to win"?

I'm also not too impressed with another round of PR fishing.

I'm not fishing. I'm trying to justify a survivalist attitude. His post after the V/LA post discredited that concern, which is why I said "a valuable asset". A vanilla townie who believes has something important to contribute is also a valuable asset. Try again.

And I don't see any negatives in your description of how he is reacting to all of this pressure. In fact, the way you have written it actually makes me consider that he might be a bigger town read than I gave him credit for earlier.

When he was first pressured he immediately jumped to defend and excuse himself. For a while he was obsessed with himself and offered little broad scumhunt. Lately his obsession turned into mere nervousness, and he is now concerned with getting reads on people, which is not scummy. This is why I've been supporting lessening the pressure on him to extract actual information instead of nervous self-defense. Which means you agree with me.

My points about you remain valid. You overweight innocent actions to make everyone look scummy and are insanely quick to jump the OMGUS gun on the first bit of (indirect) criticism, namely when I commented on your first reads. I was scummy for "murking the waters" (expressing an opinion on your opinion), for merging posts (hiding something) and addressing different discussions within the same post (to make something not obvious). Now you think I'm avoiding myself as an "obvious lynch" by trying to set up future lynches (which I'm not) and also that I'm PR fishing (which is not what I'm doing). You are either too paranoid about me, or you are disguising superficial parts of my behaviour with strong incriminating words. A healthy dose of paranoia is helpful, but if you think everybody is scum your decision is only as reliable as the proportion of scum to town, which from your point of view considering your reads ("Generic is the one person I consider to be leaning town at the moment") is currently 2/5 or 40%.

By the way I'm going to note that once Generic calmed himself down a little in regards to you you suddenly forgot about your "did your scum buddy slip up" read on him. Unless that was also part of your paranoia/strong words methodology. If you hadn't mentioned Antagon or James May, I'd have to think your prime suspects are people attacking you. You are really enigmatic and difficult to read through, but for now I'm thinking it's more of a paranoia and "intimidate the scum" bravado rather than a "make this person look scummy" strong word lexicon.

@Feel It:

Miss Stranger- Similar to Generic, but she over thinks things. Also, what makes you think James May is less scummy than Antagon?

Overthinking is better than underthinking, no? But to answer your question - James May looks like a newbie who is trying to adapt to the much slower and analytical pace of MafiaScum and who actually posts helpful stuff. Antagon's game summary can be literally brought down to the following (citing from memory):

Wagons in RVS are good. Why do you think Gen_Wolf is scum? Why do you think Fegelein is town? By backseat scumhunting he meant this post. Sorry, I overlooked that other post, but it was pretty much self-explanatory. Why do you think this is town frustration and not scum frustration?

He's pretty much only responded whenever his name was called, and hasn't contributed much if anything. Therefore I think Antagon is scummier.

[Feel It]

I know what you mean, congratz on your pregnancy btw

[Antagon]

Doing some ISOs now.
Fegelein:

Why bother with day 1. Lets just lynch Miss Stranger now and go from there? We are already onto our first scum.

Yeah...um...no.

Wait. How is it possible for anyone to take a Page 1 scum read seriously? It's like having a first post of "The next player who posts is scum."

Allowing wagons to form in RVS is a good method to get the game running. We can gauge reactions from James May.

Never do that Feel, it's WIFOM. Scum can play anyway they want.

Information Instead of Analysis. Instead of actually scumhunting, Fegelein instead chooses to talk theory instead. Therefore, he can say that he's actually done something while instead he's just blending in the background.