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Post Post #600 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:36 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 568, Desperado wrote:
In post 561, Psyche wrote:admitting
You should really start reading. Varsoon has already explicitly said he wasn't soft claiming anything.
:roll: No, Varsoon's has very explicitly said that he has information we don't.
In post 546, Varsoon wrote:
@Psyche: Fair enough, man. Wait until I post my mc-huge-case on Zoidberg, and if you don't like it, I don't blame you.
Also, you're right, I do have access to more information than a Vanilla Townie, but I don't like my cases being wholly reliant on information only available to myself, if that makes any sense.
So, this reading thing.
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Post Post #601 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:39 am

Post by Psyche »

We have two players claiming to know things that the town doesn't, desperado.
And before we lynch anyone, we need to figure out the whole picture. Or at least collectively decide that we don't want to.

(And, of course, we have to remember that if there are multiple scumteams, then a PR announcing that someone is scum doesn't clear that PR.)
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Post Post #602 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:40 am

Post by Desperado »

Right, and I have a quote of him saying he isn't softing anything before he posted that.

So why would he say he isn't softing and then soft something?
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Post Post #603 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:42 am

Post by Zoidberg »

Nobody hammer, claim, vote, or anything until Varsoon and rofl post.

I can't wait to hear varsoon's role-related information that I am scum.
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Post Post #604 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:45 am

Post by Psyche »

In post 602, Desperado wrote:Right, and I have a quote of him saying he isn't softing anything before he posted that.

So why would he say he isn't softing and then soft something?
I'm thinking Varsoons is being wishy-washy about this claiming business.

Which is worth investigating in and of itself, non?
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Post Post #605 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:49 am

Post by Rubicon »

Your role flavor being pulled directly from the Calvin & Hobbes wiki doesn't exactly help me be less skeptical of your claim.
In post 603, Zoidberg wrote:Nobody hammer, claim, vote, or anything until Varsoon and rofl post.

I can't wait to hear varsoon's role-related information that I am scum.
Agree with this, at least.
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Post Post #606 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 6:51 am

Post by Zoidberg »

In post 605, Rubicon wrote:Your role flavor being pulled directly from the Calvin & Hobbes wiki doesn't exactly help me be less skeptical of your claim.
I'm trying to explain to you where the 1 bullet/7 bourbons thing comes from, since you seemed to be confusing it with me claiming that I had 8 abilities.
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Post Post #607 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:07 am

Post by Zoidberg »

Most of Varsoon's case is total bullshit that he's conjured out of thin air. I'll address some of it.
In post 549, Varsoon wrote:He's rude, lying, opportunistic, anxious, fence-sitting,
All of these are null, town does this stuff too.
: A true RVS vote. NS has done nothing so far in the game.
: It's doubtful that Zoidberg is being anything but rhetorical here. Instead, it seems a lot more like he's deflating Psyche's pressure by calling attention to the idea that vote-hopping might not be indicative of alignment. TD and Psyche take this seriously, but Zoidberg doesn't contribute to this conversation.
: Votes for TIP, which is largely opportunistic, as TIP has just gotten 3 votes put on him in half-a-page's-space.
: Reiterates that this is a serious vote, as opposed to his earlier RVS vote. Who goes on to explain why this is scummy in . What's captivating is that TIP wants TD to explain his vote, but doesn't ask the same of Zoidberg. Zoidberg never explains his vote in 60, despite the discussion it spawned.
: Zoidberg asks Who why Who hasn't voted him since Who finds his post 60/61 scummy, despite Who fully explaining this in post . It's clear that Zoidberg is trying to portray Who is a negative fashion, but hasn't been paying very much attention to the thread. This is especially obvious because he clumps Who on his scumteam. What's really important about this post is that he calls a 3-man scumteam, which, since this is a closed setup with 21 players, is extremely awkward. Most scum-teams are 1/4 of the players, so, in this case, we'd expect 5 or 6 scum--unless we were in a setup with two teams of 3 scum, which is better known as Multiball. Zoid calls a 3-man team despite there being no setup speculation or previous entries on Zoidberg's own part that hint towards him thinking this would be a multiball setup. In this very post, he doesn't even elaborate that he thinks it is a multiball setup, but simply posts that he thinks there's a 3-scum team, which seems like a very poor slip on his part.
: Setup speculation that speaks towards him thinking there could easily be more than 3 scum, which supports the earlier multiball-related slip (although not by much).
: Discredits NS as a useless D1 player, using meta to explain why.
: Explains that NS was town in that game, which might be a slight nudge at him thinking NS is town in this game, but that's just speculation on my end.
: Finally responds to a vote on him by starting his (still ongoing) tunnel of Roflcopter. Is condescending and doesn't ask any pro-town questions here. Only OMGUS.
: Tries to take the fire off his back by reiterating to Mr E Roll that he is town, but doesn't give any good reasons for why he is actually town, just says no one will give reasons for why he is scum.
: Walks away from his earlier 'scumteam guess' by explaining it as trolling. This pings on my radar for a variety of reasons, mostly because trolls are anti-town. More than that, though? He's trying to distance himself from calling only 3 scum, and explain it off as a troll. It's as if he realized that he just softclaimed knowledge of a multiball setup (something only scum would know at this point) and was trying to laugh it off as a 'troll'. He also says he's trying to pressure TIP, while simultaneously writing TIP off as newb-town, and he fence-sits on the roflcopter issue.
: Even more damage control here. If 125 wasn't a multiball softclaim--this definitely is. NO ONE at this point is giving Zoidberg trouble about his called scum-team, yet he's obsessing over it so much he makes back-to-back posts to explain it away. It seems like a very scum-paranoid thing to say, and I can't find the town motivation in it. ONLY TIP said that the scum-team guess was stupid, but Zoidberg's going above and beyond to be defensive about it.
: Completely discredits any work TIP has been doing, and goes on to WIFOM about it for awhile in what's probably his biggest, most ironic post so far. He gives TIP a lot of shit for poor articulation on votes, despite Zoidberg's own plays so far.
: Asks TSO what he thinks of his current two scum-suspects. However, this comes off as fence-sitting, since he hasn't really gone balls-deep on either of them and seems to be gauging who people don't like more. He could have asked TSO anything to further the game, but this post reeks of cynical and opportunistic play.
: More discrediting of TIP. Doesn't have to explain his own scummy actions unless TIP writes something that makes him want to explain his own scummy actions? What bullshit. He's just scumslipping left and right and because TIP isn't articulating a hard case on him, he's lording it over the dude while devaluing his voice.
: More discrediting, strawman, bastardizing arguments against TIP. Do you not see the problem with this? TIP asked him to explain the town motivation behind his plays so far, to which he explodes, discredits TIP as much as possible, and doesn't explain anything. This sort of play is highly anti-town and OMGUS-reeking.
: More of the same TIP discrediting/tunneling/bullshit.
: Setup speculation, but worth turning an eye to because it establishes that Zoidberg is familiar with games on this site, and even with the common fake-claims given to scum. Since Zoidberg is familiar with games on this site, his earlier multi-ball slip is all that more obvious, since it's not mere speculation, but him asserting that there is a three-man scumteam, and, ergo, a multiball setup. Since this is knowledge only scum would have for sure, it's a scum-slip, rather than null-speculation. Couple that with his insecurities about his slip earlier, and it's easy to see how scummy of a slip it was and how AWARE of it Zoidberg is.
: Calls for more tunneling, furthers the fence up his ass.
: Is trying to negotiate himself as town. It's likely that, at this point, he's bussing roflcopter in order to earn towncred. Regardless, this play is entirely cynical, as he's not hunting scum, but simply playing survivalistically.
: Setting up lynches, trying to make himself a town authority, etc. His case against roflcopter isn't bad, but it doesn't make him any less scummy.
: Even more discrediting of TIP. Notice that he never makes a case against either, but just says they should be voted because they have poorly articulated cases against him.
: Pressures Roflcopter for an explanation of his vote, which seems like a town thing to do, but, given the work he's put in so far, this reads as buddying (with MREROLL) and OMGUS play.
: Trying to put the coffin over TIP's still-breathing head. What a rude dude.
: Relies on meta to further kick TIP when he's down. It's obvious that TIP isn't going to articulate a huge wall-scroll of why Zoidberg is scum so far.
: Null.
: Same as 179.
: Calls BRO out for being scummy, but doesn't do too good of a reason explaining why. As we all know, BRO flipped town, so Zoidberg was off on this mark.
: More TIP tunneling.
: More TIP tunneling.
: More TIP tunneling. I actually like this series of questions, and it'd be pretty good if Zoid hadn't fence-sat between TIP and Roflcopter all game and spent forever tunneling one or the other.
: Noticing that the TIP wagon isn't gaining any kinetic force, he decides here to swap to Roflcopter. While his explanation for tunneling TIP is all good and such, it doesn't explain his calls for votes on the guy. What if TIP got lynched for an early day lynch? Zoid wouldn't have to play this "well I was pressuring the noob cus they are hard to read" hand.
: Fucks up his quote of TD's 258 argument because he was just anxious as hell to bust out his "BUT GUYS I WAS JUST TROLLING" counterpoint. What a farce.
: Null. Couldn't even preview to get his quotes right, was too quick to try to shut down TD's accusation with his flimsy 'trolling' defense.
: More irony. Zoidberg gives TIP shit for not building cases, despite the fact Zoid hasn't built a single case yet. He's just played reactively and constantly disenfranchised/OMGUS'd players.
: Re-caps his wagon. Survivalistic? Check. Cynical? Check. Is doing pro-town work outside of OMGUS'ing? No? Oh, man, Zoid, it's amazing to watch you chase your tail. He's also painting his setup speculation as a response to MS's 114, but the post I have an issue with is the multi-ball soft-claim in 125--not the speculation he had in 126. He's tripping all over himself trying to cover every base he made when he 'trollingly speculated' things about the game. His case on Roflcopter here, though? Terrible. It's filling in the blanks between one point to the next, and making assumptions as to why rofl put an empty vote on him. It's a terrible OMGUS for all the wrong reasons.
: More of the TIP tunneling sort of action as before, but pointed towards roflcopter.
: More speculation/lynch-ordering. It's just not that cool, and he doesn't articulate -why- TD would be rofl's partner.
: A lot of Zoid's posts are like this one from here out. They're largely pulling away from attention in other areas and begging for it in his OMGUS-ridden wagon. It's buddying and cynical, and he doesn't have to do any work, just ask other players what they think until they come up with a plausible case that he can latch on to. From here on out, I'll just flag these posts as 'Zoidberging'. They're usually along the lines of "Hey, vote for roflcopter, please."
: Zoidberging
: Zoidberging. To be fair, this is the first worth-while conversation Zoid's had with another player. Too bad it's to support his weak OMGUS maybe-a-bus wagon.
: Zoidberging
: Zoidberging. It's also worth noting that he slips here as well, mentioning that Psyche has probably escaped to a QT for help. Except most QTs are only open for scum at night. The fact that he's put this forward, combined with his slip and anxiety from earlier? It can't be a coincidence. He clearly knows this is a multiball, Daytime-QT setup and Zoid flipping scum would confirm it for town, which would be awesome.
: Zoidberg, always on the defensive, explains that his last large theme game had a daytime QT, so this one could as well. Sure--base everything in this game off of the single other game you played. Or, you know, Zoid actually just slipped.
: Zoidberging
: Zoidberging. Also setting up lynches, etc. Also calls a Vig before the shot. Durhurdurhur.
: Seems like more use of a meta-defense. I hate the thing.
: Zoidberging.
: More Vig talk, which is -reaaaaally- strange in retrospect, but I don't know what to make of it. He's committing to nothing here other than his usual "TIP is a shit player" approach.
: Zoidberging
: More TIP bashing, Vig speculation, and general zoiberg nonsense.
BLAZE IT YOLO
: Zoidberging, doesn't even refer to the 'question' that rofl hasn't answered.
All this is just Information Instead of Analysis. Literally all he did was sum up the contents of the posts. That's not scumhunting. That's just textwalling.

About the only legitimate point in this block is re: my post 147. Town motivation that Varsoon can't seem to find: I'm bad at scum and feel relaxed as town. I often hit Submit too soon. Notice those posts are only about a minute apart. Clicked submit, had another thought, posted it.
At this point, BRO gets dayvig'd. Weird, considering how much Zoid was mouthing off about a vig shot. You know who would have KNOWLEDGE OF A PLAYER WHO MIGHT HAVE VIG POWERS? Lemme give you a hint--not town. That player would also be aware that we're in a multiball setup with three scum on each team and a daytime QT--it'd be REALLY strange if he slipped and people caught him. It's okay, everyone can write it off as speculation, trolling, and nonsense, right?
Vig is by definition town. Why would scum know a vig exists? This is silly.
: Lies, since active lurking implies Zoid is aware he is posting elsewhere. Zoid also doesn't share what questions are being dodged. I admit, roflcopter's activity sucks, but Zoidbergs is far worse. Quality, not quantity, my friends.
Apparently Varsoon doesn't know that you can check to see if people are posting elsewhere by viewing their profiles. Rofl is active lurking. Fact.

Furthermore, anyone who's read the thread knows which questions rofl has dodged. This is more indicative of Varsoon's terrible attempt at scumhunting. His statement that I did not re-iterate the question is true. But why is that scummy? Everyone knows the question. If they don't then they can go back and find it because it's pretty fucking obvious. In fact I re-quoted it like 4 times.

It's just more Information Instead of Analysis. He's just summing up the contents of the post without explaining why it's scummy, because he can't offer a credible explanation.
: This is unsettling to me. It's like he's sure he'll live to the next day. This is why I want the Zoidberg lynch more than anything. He's ALL ABOUT lynching out rofl, as if that'll change town's mind on him, and doesn't care what happens to him on Day 2. This leads me to believe he has a strong one-shot power he wants to use tonight. This means
we have to lynch zoidberg today.
It's too big a risk to make any other lynch, especially given the sort of info Zoidberg has been dropping.
: "If I was a strong scum PR--don't you think I wouldn't bluff so hard and play so wrecklessly to appear town?" I'm not buying it.
: Rude dude badge of face-spitting awarded.
: Zoidberging. Also calls my reads shitty, living up to his rude-dude-tude.
: "HARD CLAIM FOR ME SO I CAN KNOW IF I NEED TO NIGHT KILL YOU." Hard PR claims are almost never pro-town. I think I'll keep my cards tipped, thank you.
: "Whoever I can OMGUS the hardest is the scumteam" Seriously, this sort of thing has been classic zoidberg all game.
Apparently only scum calls someone else's reads shitty. Has Varsoon never played with Kuribo before? Or is he going for the sympathy card? Vote Zoidberg because he hurt my feelings?
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Post Post #608 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:12 am

Post by Psyche »

I'm telling you, "description in a scummy light" is a very powerful tool.
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Post Post #609 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:16 am

Post by Nobody Special »

In post 565, MonkeyMan576 wrote:
Vote Count 1.5 - June 20, 2013 - With 20 Alive, it requires 11 to lynch - Day 1 ends on June 28th at 12PM Eastern US Time

roflcopter(4) - Zoidberg, Nobody Special, Skullduggery, penguin_alien
(L-7)

Zoidberg(4) - Desperado, TiphaineDeath, Varsoon, TheIrishPope
(L-7)

Varsoon (2)- Zed17, Metal Sonic(L-9)
Nobody Special - Psyche
Not Voting(10): Dante, roflcopter, Nobody Special, Eddie Fenix, Mr E Roll, boxxy, TSO, Rubicon, Radioactive Wolf, Who
@MOD:
I'm actually voting Zoidberg, as seen in my . You have me voting for roflcopter and not voting, both of which are incorrect.
....what?



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Post Post #610 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:16 am

Post by Nobody Special »

I'm just going to watch and wait for roflcopter, varsoon, and zoidberg to fight this out.
....what?



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Post Post #611 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:17 am

Post by Desperado »

Varsoon not being capable of expressing the scum motivation in your posts doesn't negate the case.

Sometimes IIOA is good. I know I certainly wouldn't have taken the time to do that. But putting everything in one place (with relevant links) for those players that CAN understand and express scum motivation is pro-town.

Basically...there's a certain point where something goes from mere IIOA to a catalog of information. If he had just picked out a couple quotes for each point and said "look, this is this thing, that's that thing, and there's that thing over there" then you would have a point...but he linked every single post you've made and had a relevant comment for every single one.

The dedication is genuinely town.
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Post Post #612 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:17 am

Post by Zoidberg »

In post 608, Psyche wrote:I'm telling you, "description in a scummy light" is a very powerful tool.
I have no doubt that it's powerful, which is why varsoon thinks he can get away with it.

One could easily go through the same list of posts that Varsoon did, explain them the same way that Varsoon did, but put editorialized comments on it that are positive instead of negative. All of a sudden it's a clear and strident defense written by someone who thinks Zoidberg is obvtown.

That is, of course, until you actually notice that his case is hollow and without merit.
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Post Post #613 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:18 am

Post by Zoidberg »

In post 610, Nobody Special wrote:I'm just going to watch and wait for roflcopter, varsoon, and zoidberg to fight this out.
Thank you. Don't vote until varsoon and rofl come back and post.
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Post Post #614 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:19 am

Post by Rubicon »

@ zoidberg, one last question.

re: your 477, why were you playing recklessly if you're such a powerful town PR?
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Post Post #615 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:19 am

Post by Desperado »

In post 612, Zoidberg wrote:
In post 608, Psyche wrote:I'm telling you, "description in a scummy light" is a very powerful tool.
I have no doubt that it's powerful, which is why varsoon thinks he can get away with it.

One could easily go through the same list of posts that Varsoon did, explain them the same way that Varsoon did, but put editorialized comments on it that are positive instead of negative. All of a sudden it's a clear and strident defense written by someone who thinks Zoidberg is obvtown.


That is, of course, until you actually notice that his case is hollow and without merit.
We have plenty of time. Go ahead and do it.
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Post Post #616 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:21 am

Post by Zoidberg »

In post 611, Desperado wrote:Varsoon not being capable of expressing the scum motivation in your posts doesn't negate the case.
Yes it does.
Sometimes IIOA is good. I know I certainly wouldn't have taken the time to do that. But putting everything in one place (with relevant links) for those players that CAN understand and express scum motivation is pro-town.
So point out the scum motivation behind each post, then? Find the words that Varsoon can't?

[quote[Basically...there's a certain point where something goes from mere IIOA to a catalog of information. If he had just picked out a couple quotes for each point and said "look, this is this thing, that's that thing, and there's that thing over there" then you would have a point...but he linked every single post you've made and had a relevant comment for every single one.[/quote]Well, he made a comment about each one. But if he can't show why it's scummy and just says "Zoidberg did xyz in this post" then it's not relevant; it's just paraphrasing.
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Post Post #617 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:22 am

Post by MonkeyMan576 »

In post 609, Nobody Special wrote:
In post 565, MonkeyMan576 wrote:
Vote Count 1.5 - June 20, 2013 - With 20 Alive, it requires 11 to lynch - Day 1 ends on June 28th at 12PM Eastern US Time

roflcopter(4) - Zoidberg, Nobody Special, Skullduggery, penguin_alien
(L-7)

Zoidberg(4) - Desperado, TiphaineDeath, Varsoon, TheIrishPope
(L-7)

Varsoon (2)- Zed17, Metal Sonic(L-9)
Nobody Special - Psyche
Not Voting(10): Dante, roflcopter, Nobody Special, Eddie Fenix, Mr E Roll, boxxy, TSO, Rubicon, Radioactive Wolf, Who
@MOD:
I'm actually voting Zoidberg, as seen in my . You have me voting for roflcopter and not voting, both of which are incorrect.
Sorry will fix.
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Post Post #618 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:23 am

Post by Zoidberg »

In post 614, Rubicon wrote:@ zoidberg, one last question.

re: your 477, why were you playing recklessly if you're such a powerful town PR?
I'm still learning and trying new strategies.
In post 615, Desperado wrote:
In post 612, Zoidberg wrote:
In post 608, Psyche wrote:I'm telling you, "description in a scummy light" is a very powerful tool.
I have no doubt that it's powerful, which is why varsoon thinks he can get away with it.

One could easily go through the same list of posts that Varsoon did, explain them the same way that Varsoon did, but put editorialized comments on it that are positive instead of negative. All of a sudden it's a clear and strident defense written by someone who thinks Zoidberg is obvtown.


That is, of course, until you actually notice that his case is hollow and without merit.
We have plenty of time. Go ahead and do it.
Of my own posts? No thanks, I'd rather not be accused of bias.
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Post Post #619 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:27 am

Post by Desperado »

In post 616, Zoidberg wrote:
In post 611, Desperado wrote:Varsoon not being capable of expressing the scum motivation in your posts doesn't negate the case.
Yes it does.
Sometimes IIOA is good. I know I certainly wouldn't have taken the time to do that. But putting everything in one place (with relevant links) for those players that CAN understand and express scum motivation is pro-town.
So point out the scum motivation behind each post, then? Find the words that Varsoon can't?

[quote[Basically...there's a certain point where something goes from mere IIOA to a catalog of information. If he had just picked out a couple quotes for each point and said "look, this is this thing, that's that thing, and there's that thing over there" then you would have a point...but he linked every single post you've made and had a relevant comment for every single one.
Well, he made a comment about each one. But if he can't show why it's scummy and just says "Zoidberg did xyz in this post" then it's not relevant; it's just paraphrasing.[/quote]

I'm saying that just slapping an IIOA label on the whole post and calling it irrelevant is fucking crazy.

And there's like, a less than zero chance that I will ever do that. I see scum motivation in your play. I have all day.

The possibility that you're a scum PR for one team that caught scum from the other team makes excites me.
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Post Post #620 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:27 am

Post by Zoidberg »

In post 611, Desperado wrote:The dedication is genuinely town.
Perhaps. But if he's claiming to have role-related information that I'm scum, there's either a day-redirector (unlikely), his role is insane/paranoid(doubtful), or he's scum and will be taking a dirt nap shortly (probably).
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Post Post #621 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:28 am

Post by Zoidberg »

In post 619, Desperado wrote:And there's like, a less than zero chance that I will ever do that
Do what?
The possibility that you're a scum PR for one team that caught scum from the other team makes excites me.
Ok.
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Post Post #622 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:29 am

Post by Desperado »

Or maybe he's blowing smoke up everyone's ass
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Post Post #623 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:30 am

Post by Desperado »

Go through your post history and identify scum motivation.

Whatever way this works out, that's never going to be a priority for me.
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Post Post #624 (ISO) » Thu Jun 20, 2013 7:32 am

Post by Zoidberg »

In post 622, Desperado wrote:Or maybe he's blowing smoke up everyone's ass
I thought you said he was genuinely town? :lol: :roll:
In post 623, Desperado wrote:Go through your post history and identify scum motivation.

Whatever way this works out, that's never going to be a priority for me.
... good?

PBPA's are almost always useless anyways.
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