NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[Shadi1337]

So, when we lynch Shadi, we can use that list to find his partners
And people, don't quote fucking walls

Still mad at my self-lynch?

[TheIrishPope]

Oh no Shadi, that is in the past

[Shadi1337]

Oh no Shadi, that is in the past

Fair do's, reason for your (I guess it wasn't a joke ?) scum read? And pardon me if you already said it later but I have to iso once more today I'm going to kill myself. (Hence I'm giving my read on Steve tomorrow MS, btw).

[Shadi1337]

If you already said it earlier*
And kill myself irl, not in-game again

[TheIrishPope]

Meeeeh dunno
You seem odd
Different from that Newbie of ours

[KingCrabd]

So in case anybody hasn't noticed...

Shadi died before Irish ever entered the game. Irish is acting like he has an extensive history of play with shadi.



Nacho, you alive to talk to, or would you prefer tomrorow?

[Shadi1337]

I'm quite sure I had one game where me and Irish were alive at the same time.. oh god let me look brb.

[Shadi1337]

Ah yes here goes:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=28794

I didn't really think we were in 3 games together already O_o. That Yoshi avatar gave you an entire different personality.

But as Cabd noticed and that I quickly noticed you did indeed refer to the newbie game; then again you could have isoed and analysed me to see whom I voted on due to flipping town upon my death. (Screw you Cab!!)

[Shadi1337]

Cabd*

[KingCrabd]

Yo. Rarefaction is ongoing game, no talkie.

Nacho, that big post should have warmed your big townie heart... if you have it this time around.

[Shadi1337]

Yo. Rarefaction is ongoing game, no talkie.

Nacho, that big post should have warmed your big townie heart... if you have it this time around.

Wow... is it still not done. My bad lol.

Hoh well, also do remember that this is my third or fourth game on site (the site where I usually play is quite different). I'm bound to become a little different and shape myself at first by experiencing different styles.

[Cabd]

@Mod, we appear to have lost quite a few posts.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Yes we have

And Shadi's wall is ass

[Zdenek]

kingcrabd still needs to talk about Shadi's meta. That's all I remember right now.

[Serene]

Awaiting the continuation of Shadi's analysis.

[KingCrabd]

I'm here, Zdenek. Let's talk shadi's meta, mmkay?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=28000

Starting here. I was scum. He was town.

(We NK'd him night one so there's not too much to read.)

Let me pick out some posts that show similar operation to his play here so far.

[TheIrishPope]

A few posts?
We lost like an entire page
Bah
Who are we lynching?

[KingCrabd]

Let's start here.

For the record, I'm more used to the werewolf/seer/priest names than mafia/cop/doctor names, so I use the two interchangeably.

No problem

Shadi, quote me where you've been actively going after piolo. Your RVS vote doesn't count, because you unvoted it right after a potential wagon was gonna form. All you've done is very lightly fence sit on piolo while mildly agreeing with some of my points against him.

I know, I kept it in my mind more because I don't wanna be jumping on a guy without any reason. Giving the replaced player a new start is a decent ideology for me. (Unless it obviously shouldn't happen). Anyhow, even if he was there I'd keep my vote where it is now.

Also, last part about me fence sitting is not false. So yeah again, good point. (Although the one about you disliking my post and therefore voting on me is still senseless...)

Note that list bit. When he's wrong and he knows it, town-shadi openly admits as such. He doesn't deflect it or hope it goes away, he owns up to it and moves on.

[KingCrabd]

Totally open with his thoughts and motivations.

(Double post, coz I didn't see the 2 posts above the one I quoted >_<)

Well I'm posting to prod dodge and to keep the game active, I will and do not deny that. It's not like I'm trying to find anything to say, but really? Post too little, scummy, post too much scummy. Out of those 2 I think the latter is best to do, because at least you can express your words and hope to sound honest/genuine (I was lucky enough to receive some trust) by doing that). While it may sound scummy or whatever, I rather just being completely honest and tell why and what I'm doing instead of just doing it. If you think I'm over-explaining or it's scummy feel free to vote.

@Klazam
As I said I had it in mind but kept it for myself as I thought Cabd was more worth voting on (for reason please read the post where I voted on him).

[KingCrabd]

First reads list comes well into the second half of day one.

Shadi, what about C do you think is scummy? what do you think of every other player in the game, myself included?

TheEsquire:

Seems like a competent player and has come out with his own words, which seem honest enough. Null read but leaning to townie. Although not interrogated or asked he's let go of with a little analysis given.

Cabd:

I just feel like all the mini reasons he gets for jumping on a person are too small, every single stupid word or action he disagrees with he votes on you. It's the vibe I'm getting (no offence to you at all dude, it's your playstyle and I fully respect that). So, maybe to divert attention from himself on the tally he tries to start things of others

richardfrost:

Null read, barely said anything game-related. I will give him the benefit of doubt by dodging the game due to school work; I'm in the same pinch myself.

Lazurial:

Seems to question when weird things happen on the game and doesn't use it as an opportunity to start a tally on them, I'd say leaning to townie.

Shadi1337:

A simple townie genius

jonpiolo

jmo16mla:

Seems to care that the game isn't going astray and tries to get everyone go on priorities, I'd say leaning townie. However, his "predecessor" was quite careless but I'm getting an entirely different read from this guy. And to be fair jon didn't really say anything other than that and prolly didn't answer coz he avoided the questions but he probably just stopped reading the thread

Xegarus

Klazam:

I find it a bit weird that he only had stuff on me at first, but I believe he's townie for trying to question "trusted" players and a good player would do that. (However, voting on them is a bit different) but could also be mafia and try commencing tallies on other people than themselves; not that a townie wouldn't but a scum would probably be very subtle about it

Jebus:

Doesn't talk a lot, leaning to scum but closer to null read.

Ms Marangal:

I think she's a townie, no scum read so far.

[KingCrabd]

Those three posts match the way shadi has approached this game so far. Would anyone care to disagree with that before I move onto the next game?

[Shadi1337]

What I remember before the forums derped:

Orc said that my reads wall only had content of the game and no actual analysis other than the little part tacked on it under the conclusion in which Serene posted that this wasn't the case and those posts showed how he came to his conclusion. I also answered Orc this:

When you deal with an analysis we need 3 levels of analysis.

First is, what? --> We all know this is mafia and we all know our goals so skip this level

Second is talking about the problem within the case, state what's exactly going on.

Third --> How do we solve it and what conclusions are there of the case.

I also asked Orc what he'd like to see different in future reads from me. (iirc a couple of others wanted reads, but I'm not going to do it again as I said to Stubbs on that page it's extremely time-consuming) or well, it'd be fine if the user doesn't have a lot of posts.

p-edit:

Lol Cabd, your play style was quite different there I should probably have metaed you, I thought aggressiveness was just you but this game shows otherwise.

Also Cabd, how do you know I don't do this as scum? I haven't flipped scum in any game yet for you to make a difference, maybe you see a lot of similarities but you cannot know if I wouldn't do it as a scum player?

[KingCrabd]

Also Cabd, how do you know I don't do this as scum?

http://www.neondragon.net/viewforum.php?f=183

Want to bet I'm not determined enough to dive all of these?

[Rift Adrift]

I played part of day 1 with Shadi in a micro game, Goonies Mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=28496

Orcinus and I were the Selkies hydra in that game. We started out thinking Shadi was scum, but I changed my mind partway through day 1. His play style is different and it comes off as scummy to me at first blush. It took a while for the town motivation to show through.

At one point, another player was pushing for either Shadi or me to be lynched. Shadi could have easily tweaked his read slightly (he didn't have me as a strong town read) and gone along with that. Instead, he pushed back and said that by the guy's logic we were both reasonable lynches.

Here's a key post:

No.

You don't understand why if you were Town your statement that you'd rather be lynched than saved for being a noob is anti-Town? Fine. I'll explain. Your first job, as Town, is to survive [over-generalization but true from the 500 foot perspective]. Incidentally, this is why I don't believe in the "survivalistic" tell. By surviving, you are keeping the numbers in Town's favor. So if you are Town, it shouldn't matter why someone thinks you are Town as long as they are reading you as Town.

People have different opportunities and I believe they are all valid, my friend.

As a townie you are obliged to stay alive because unlike everyone else you're the only one who's confirmed town and therefore already doing your job by preventin' parity. However, if there are no leads then what are you supposed to do? Indeed, scumhunt. Tunnel, throw a barrage of attacks onto players; preferably people who have slipped or haven't talked a lot. So you can get to the roots of why that's the case

As scum you are also obliged to stay alive to prevent villagers from staying alive and reaching parity. However, a scum's main job would obviously be to be his pro town self IN ORDER TO STAY ALIVE.

So, we agree that no matter what you are, your wincon is to stay alive? So how is it more scummy to not care about dying as scum than villager? Sorry, I believe this logic is flawed.

The less information you have from someone the more of a target they are, the more you know someone the closer to the truth you can get.

The less information you have from someone, the less information you have after their flip. You simply don't lynch lurkers on day 1. I'm not going to get into all the numerous reasons a Townie will be less active on day 1 but believe me when I say there are far more reasons for a Townie to be less active on Day 1 than a scum. This is especially true in a game where there is no strong leadership and no polarizing activity on the table yet.

Point taken, the more information you have on a target the more you get out of the flip but that doesn't erase my past arguments. Instead of keepin' the lurkers lurking and giving them the chance to hit off cheaply why not get rid of them early on in the game? Or do you suggest that only happens after R2 if you're still clueless there?

People work much better under pressure

Pressure is L-2 with a threat to put someone at L-1. Putting someone at L-1 and then stating "but don't hammer" is the same as saying "go ahead and hammer" because you created that opportunity. This looks to me like scum setting up a mislynch to L-1 and hoping a Townie will just jump on and hammer either by accident or through flawed logic. Sets up the next day nicely as you grill the hammer about why THEY quick lynched. If you put someone at L-1 you better be equally prepared to be the hammer. Your "excuse" will not protect you. Frankly, if the lynch had gone through and he flipped Town I would have focused on you more than the hammer.

That's fair enough, I guess we differ in priorities then. I would have made a huge walls of attacks on the user who did it. It was a trap, and I made it deadly obvious that it'd be stupid to hammer. I'm sorry I don't see the pressuring level of L-2 the same as L-1 it's much more intense.

Well, not sure if I should comment on this one. Just prepare for disappointment

Are you saying I have it wrong and Empking is your buddy? I WOULD be disappointed.

No, you'd be disappointed in the result of lynching me. Saying that is obvious and needless to say hence the "I'm not sure if I should comment".

I'm likin' your read post, btw

That's because it was a good post. Buddying me does not buy you Town points. Ditto for this post:

It's good to see you posting, yates.

... I was just giving you a thumbs up for actually being active unlike before. An active game is much funnier and you get a lot more reads. It's what you're providin'; I'm not trying to buddy you.

I'm going to vote for one of you. Tell me why it shouldn't be you OR why it should be the other guy. It looks like FuDuz will be sheeping me so consider my vote like a double vote. Go.

I don't think I'm a much worse or better candidate than Seal, he's doing pretty well. I'm not sure what to say here really, sorry. At least not any more than what other people have already stated about him, includin' yourself.

I liked that he stuck to his approach and didn't flail when Yates became active and started pressuring both of us.

Here's another post, from after I replaced out. He's interacting with what turned out to be a scum player in this one.

I'm all caught up.

Yates, get back over here. Selkies is scum I guarantee it. Also please don't replace out, part of the reason I joined was cause I saw your name. ^^

Shadi/Torcinator are town though. They don't care about how their posts come off and its obvious as hell. The real-life updates from Torc are hilariously town. Shadi getting pissy about being called a noob is too. Scum way more often than not will fall back on the newb card. Shadi is doing the opposite, lol. Also Selkies is aggressively trying to ML that slot.

Fu feels town and I doubt that Fu and Yates are scum since they seem to share scum selkies reads by and large.

Town-Motivated Posters

Torcinator
Shadi
FuDuzn

Probable Town

Yates
Aafter
Empking

Doofenshmirtz Evil, Incoporaaaateeeed

Selkies

PoE Scum?

RachMarie

@RM: Could you summarize your reads for me?

Basically I'm going to be incredibly disappointed in all of you if someone other than selkies is lynched today. Sucks for Doc Holiday, but its a scum slot. A lot of my opinions are based on this slot being scum and I really am not ok with lynching anyone else until I see this mafia flip.

Your reason on some of your reads? Rach and Sel (you said that Sel is trying to ML that slot, ML means?) and what about Rach did I miss a post?

I know I'm constantly digging my own grave by saying this but I wouldn't act different to that whether I'm scum or town. I don't intend to use my meta as an advantage to trick or use players with or against me. It's like allowing private messages between players; why let all matters out of this thread count as matters?

Also it's nice with a reads post

You seem SO sure though AP what are you gonna do iffen on the off chance he flps town? Not saying he will just saying IF?

Cause you may be missing the bigger picture because of your tunneling

Yes, I feel like questioning your confidence as well. It would be hard to keep up if 1-2 of them flip villager.

I'm seeing the same open engagement and push-back in this game, but the number of antagonists is much higher due to the game size. He's been under a lot of scrutiny and IMO has maintained an open and engaged presence through it all.

Compare that to some of the other players who have picked up a few votes.

[KingCrabd]

Shadi, in the interest of saving everybody time, can you tell me which of those offsite games you were scum in?

Also rift, you beat me to goonies, I was going there next.