Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Tierce]

My read on you is irrelevant for my opinion on that post.

[Katsuki]

If by "rather important" you mean he voiced a "pocket scumread on Tierce", that was it. And to that I say that Oversoul is incapable of reading me as anything but scum, so~

Oh good, you remembered. ^^

I however, am not incapable of reading you as anything but scum, which is rather worrying~

[Oversoul]

Umm I remember a post by someone but you know... Lol rollback.
It was actually going to be important for my scum reads... But alas... Roll back.

I'll be... Here tomorrow.
Tierce I am curious how I went from "shape up you easy lynch even if you are town" to "sigh misreading me probably town" without ever really doing much in the mean time?

[Oversoul]

Also I find Syrana's "confusion" to be utter bs and I would not mind his death at all. Read a la Benmage "too stupid"

[Oversoul]

Who was the person who compared another player to Fate or something? I vaguely remember that. I think I had a townread on that person because of that post

[Tierce]

Tierce I am curious how I went from "shape up you easy lynch even if you are town" to "sigh misreading me probably town" without ever really doing much in the mean time?

One doesn't invalidate the other? At all?

But I'm clearly too busy to bother giving you the time of day, so by all means, have fun with that ridiculous paranoia. (>")>

[MattP]

Who was the person who compared another player to Fate or something? I vaguely remember that. I think I had a townread on that person because of that post

It was Kastuki, comparing my fakeclaims to Fate's

But Kat was town already so.

Also in regards to Syr, I thought Antagon flipped town until about 10 hrs until d2, I mean not for the same reason (what got me was the "Vanilla" wording in the flip)

I actually expected to come into today being quicklynched for changing the momentum off of HP onto a super duper PR. I also thought Tierce was probable scum since it seemed like she had hidden knowledge of Antagon's alignment

But ANYWAY then that didn't happen SO.

[MattP]

And considering the "Abyss" flavor wasn't even presented in the OP as being scum aligned I'm surprised Im the only person to have expressed making that mistake

[Amrun]

WHY ARE MY BEAUTIFUL POSTS GONE

VOTE: hp_leaves

For anyone who was SLEEPING when this was discussed... I think there are two scum teams and that Antagon was ghost hammered by the other scum team to protect hp leaves.

[Amrun]

I haven't read the new posts yet... I'm v v tired but I will do this when I wake up. I started reading them but I'm falling asleep. Just got home from work.

[Tierce]

I also thought Tierce was probable scum since it seemed like she had hidden knowledge of Antagon's alignment

?

Oh, there was another thing.

My lightbulb moment might as well be clarified now. I had thought that there was a larger-than-zero chance of the Apocalypse role actually being scum, and wanted to see what Antagon would claim because at the time I thought he was scum being bussed.

He was scum and was probably being bussed (though anyone who thinks I am scum with him and was doing that ridiculous read-change dance with a scumbuddy who wasn't even a PR seriously needs their scumhunting checked), but checking through that won't be today.


PEdit: ...so your role PM shows you as Town in

green

and you get confused? How is it surprising that (all) others

don't

get confused on seeing "Town troll flip -> actual evil-looking non-Town-color flip" and make the "oh, he was scum" connection?


PEdit2: Two scum teams in a game this size with this mechanic would be horribly scumsided. Don't be ridiculous.

[Amrun]

I don't agree, Tierce. There are ALL SORTS of ways to balance two scumteams, and the ghost hammering of Antagon makes no sense any other way. I myself have tried interesting ways of balancing two scumteams in a game Vi played. Of course it's POSSIBLE that there isn't two scum teams; this is simply my THEORY. As you yourself said, if it's in the game, it will make sense in the end.

It was discussed much more extensively in the posts that got erased. Basically, I don't think the kills look like either of them was a vig, making the other options limited, and given how the end of the day went down yesterday, I think it's two scumteams. Also just a thing that probably shouldn't hold water in my head but does anyway... I first had the thought when looking at the purple color, because I was expecting red for scum. I was like "nahhhhhh" but then when there were two kills I was like "BUT WAIT"

I do agree about the confusion re: Antagon flip. I'm not entirely sure how that happened, though Matt's reads genuinely. Syryana's is another story. I know myself I excitedly scrolled to the bottom, saw purple and assumed SK, then read more carefully and concluded scum.

[Tierce]

15p with short days, one more scum faction to hit the Apocalypse role at Night, and at least four scum to make it 11:2:2? No. Makes no sense. Now there MIGHT be a second anti-Town power, but I doubt it's more than one person, if anything.

I was expecting red for scum

Not necessarily, particularly in a Vi game that may (or not (!), see theory of Vi making this game just to meta-troll me) have a Tarhalindur role. Which I was expecting to be the Apocalypse role, but that would be far too simple.

(It's probably one of the scum.)

[Amrun]

The color part is really not the part that is important. The important part is that it makes extremely little sense for scum to ghost hammer since Antagon was scum, and it makes EVEN LESS SENSE for TOWN to ghost hammer ESPECIALLY since no one has fessed up today.

The only other thing that even remotely makes sense is hp leaves being a big scum power (since Antagon was vanilla scum as far as I can tell), which STILL make hp leaves scum, sooooooooooooooooo.

[Katsuki]

Vi games always has Tar. And Tar is always scum.

[implosion]

Vi games always has Tar. And Tar is always scum.

except for when tar isn't scum :S.

[Katsuki]

Folder is 199% full (1992 from 1000 messages stored)

Man tigers did some wonky things this time round

[implosion]

First example I found (I know there are others).

Anyway, back to where we were:

VOTE: hp [leaves]

[hp [leaves]]

Just to speed things up, I am a vanilla townie for all intensitive purposes.

Antagon flipping scum really implies Matt being scum so get him today or tomorrow.

VOTE: mattp

[Tierce]

post_id=5053220 time=1372061807 user_id=10128]Antagon flipping scum really implies Matt being scum

How and why?

[Syryana]

Okay, fferyllt case. Long you have waited, and I shall deliver!

Here's what I know about fery. She is, first and foremost, a trajectory girl. She doesn't explicitly townhunt or scumhunt; she watches people for how they react, how they get certain reads. For example, her analysis of Zach in #651 is an excellent example of how she hunts for reads; checks to make sure reads/votes/etc. match up with what the slots have been saying in previous posts. Long story short, she examines everyone's thought processes and makes sure they line up with what they normally do as town/scum (or barring a baseline with meta/experience/whatever, what she thinks they normally do as town/scum).

Now, given a brief understanding of how (as I see it) fery works as a player, here are the reasons I think she's scum:

• Buddying/Appeasing the hell out of me
  
• Her reads themselves have very little trajectory
  
• She hasn't been scumhunting, the scumhunting she's done has been very superficial (key point here, fery is one of the least superficial people I know)
  
• Fluffy content (highlights of which being scum theatre with Mattp)

Point numero uno: Buddying/appeasing the hell out of me. Here be some examples:

Spoiler: Yo buddies what up

1) Im happy you're townreading people but don't set a precedent for stupidity, syryana respects you a lot and if you keep doing that he may start making reads lists

Reads lists!

Town: Tammy, Tierce, Enomis

Probably Town: Zdenek

Not Town: Eggplant, Matt, fery, Pjo

No clue: Errbody else

I like your town list. I'd add mrbungle to the probtown.

withholding judgement on Pjo.

And you're town.

This is a combination of buddying/appeasement/superficial. She grabs my reads list, calls it good (at least for the townreads), adds mrbungle to the town pile and calls me town almost as an afterthought. Not only is there a complete lack of any explanation of any of those reads (see: superficial, more detail in the section designated such), she's buddying me by saying she "likes my town list" and appeasing by calling me town at the end there.

Syr looks town to me. Of his town reads, I feel like I have enough read of my own to agree that you are town and I'm trusting that he can townread the others.

This one's even worse. We've played together before and are hydraing currently, but I can't recall doing anything that would garner

this

much respect. She's essentially calling me town because my town list matches her town list closely enough for her to just assume I'm town. Yeah, no. "Your reads match mine therefore you're town" is sloppy and superficial as fuck, two things our dear fery is not. This is more buddying.

Him. I have a pretty detailed baseline at this point after playing 3 completed games...maybe more, I could be forgetting a game or two, and reading a few games on meta dives. We've also discussed a lot of mafia theory and approach while planning to play some games as a hydra. I am not absolutely certain I'd spot his scum game. But, I feel like this game so far is so well within the space of that baseline that I'm ok calling him town for now.

I'm not shy about changing my reads on people. If I change my mind, you'll know.

This is quoted here for a couple of reasons. First, you'll note she's defending her townread of me thanks to the three completed town games she has with me (BSG, Buzzword, Donner Party for reference) as well as discussions we had whilst hydraing. And yet look at her posts. Nowhere does she ever even hint at thinking I'm anything but town (she mentions her read on me is stale, but that's the closest she gets). No paranoia of me, no nothing. I've told her straight up in hydra convos that I like playing scum and take pride in my scumgame. In the three baseline games she played with me, in BSG her townread on me didn't come until much later. In Donner Party it came early, largely because of a fracas I stirred up regarding one of the other players and she justified her read fairly well. In Buzzword, she got a super quick townread on me thanks to an early miller claim by me and my reaction to a miller counterclaim shortly thereafter (that was a hilarious game, you all should go read it sometime).

Where's the catalyst for the townread on me this game? She's been asked multiple times why she thinks I'm town. She keeps dodging the question, until (and I know this post is out of order with the prior; the explanation makes more sense that way):

Syr's one of the lynchpins in my reads atm. I've played several games with him, though all have been town games, and I've seen a fairly wide range of town-Syr behaviors in the various games. From meta, I know that his scum game is not easy to spot, and it's possible I'm missing it here, but I kinda doubt it. For now I'm considering him town. Nacho seems to be influencing his game, and I think I am seeing some of that influence in his play this time - specifically the tempo of his dance with Tammy and his conclusion that she's town.

Well now. On the surface this seems to be a pretty reasonable explanation of why she thinks I'm town. Let's dig a bit though, and apply fery's alignment hunting process to it.

Reasons Syr is town: 1) I (fery) have played several town games with him and this seems like his town game
2) His dance with Tammy and consequent townread on her seems town

For the former, I have already more or less explained that my play here is not really indicative of my completed games with her. By her initial townread on me (#110) all I had done was flop around, trolling the shit out of everybody and flipflopping my vote all over the place. There was that unexplained reads list I threw out there too. Go compare my first dozen or so posts in the three town games she's been in with me to this one; you'll see why I think her townread on me is full of buddying and poo.

Now the latter point: the dance with Tammy. Fery claims that the tempo of our dance shows some of Nacho's influence and that my conclusion of Tammy-town also means I'm town. First off, the whole "Nacho's influence" thing is a load of crock. She doesn't bother analysing why I was trolling, but chalks it up to "eh, seems like Nacho's influence". Minus points for laziness, minus points for bullshit. Let's remember: fery's a trajectory girl. How did my read of Tammy go? Something like this is what you all saw:

Trajectory girl doesn't call me on that? Hell no. Several other people called me on that. Why is trajectory girl missing it? Cause she's buddying me, that's why. I'll get to why she's buddying me in a bit.

hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

Upon ISO skim of hp, his unvote was when he replaced in. Why should he give reasons for unvoting from whatever his predecessor was doing? Why does that make him scummy?

It was a vote on one of the also-ran wagons. If the vote had been on the leading wagon, my first act as a replacement would have been to unvote if for no other reason than to ensure could catch up.

The point about hp being shallow and only focusing on mattp/antagon isn't bad, but hp's thought process is pretty clear IMO. From what I've seen of scumHP (and don't ask me to elaborate, I can't), hp doesn't have a clear thought process as scum.

Ok, good to know.

You'll be seeing this post again in a later part of this case, but I'm putting it here largely because she's doing the whole "Syry's word is law" thing again. She bleats some nonsense about hp [leaves], I contradict her, and she just accepts it. Lolwut? No questions, no "but Syr, what about this and this and this?" (pretend there are post links in lieu of "this"). She just kinda gives up on the read, like she's walking on eggshells around me.

I especially want to see what Syr has to say.

Pretending to care about my case in the hopes of appeasing me further. In her shoes, if I had someone that called me scum and kept putting it off and putting it off (how many times did I promise this before I did it?), I'd be all over their ass. She would be too. However, in this case she's just passively waiting. And waiting. And waiting. It's reactive (her scumgame), and she still doesn't want to get on my bad side.

^^ Town tell.

(scroll down, or check the OP)

The crowning glory of the buddying. We've discussed in multiple instances on types of towntells and fery knows full well I'm capable of faking such things (not faked in this instance, but nobody on this playerlist should be assuming that anyways). Instead of the proper reaction(are you for real dude?, see Zdenek, or even some kind of questioning as to what the fuck is going on in my head), we instead have:

I've tried writing this paragraph about why fery's buddying of me is scummy three times now, and I keep devolving into WIFOM. So I'm just going to say this: it is a plain fact she's buddying me and it makes me paranoid and distrustful of her.

Movin onward!

Fluff and stuff. Many of fery's posts are fluff inserted to provide the illusion of activity. Come, let me show you why...

Spoiler: Dandelions and Drama

Something happened between those two vote counts. 4% battery drain.

2. Battery-Powered Deadlines. Deadlines in this game (outside Apocalypse) are measured via a meter that starts at 100% and counts down each real-time day by a varying amount. The amount is based on true activity. If the meter reaches 0%, the Day immediately ends.

So 4% seems like not very much at all. I wonder if "true activity" means the battery drains faster or slower.

Irrelevant setup speculation.

She's now voting me, not Zach.

Pedantics. Doesn't actually respond to Oversoul's actual point about Zach/Tierce interactions.

You were going on about her voting Zach. I was just pointing out that she's moved on. /pedant

Still pedantics.

I am getting the feeling that whimsical would be replaced and we can't question him further on his post. Hurray!

Yep. And if it was just an unfortunate misread or something on whimsical eggplant's part, that's probably an overall plus. If not, the slot will at least be under scrutiny.

Scrutiny from other people anyways.

I hope you'll take my reads into account when I eventually flip. There are a lot of players I am unfamiliar with in this game. The ones I know, my reads may be useful to town.

???

So do you think my read of pjovek is wrong? I'm not really sure what you think about anyone else in the game other than whimsey and that's why I don't have a good feeling about you.

Then, I guess you haven't iso'd me. I agreed with the town part of Syr's first readslist. I added mrbungle and pjovik to probtown.

Good scum reads usually take time for me to develop unless someone I have a lot of meta on draws a scum role.

I feel like my bandwagon is probably mostly town-driven atm.

Completely ignores zach's challenge on her pjovek read. Diverts by talking about her slow buildup and pulls bandwagon stuff out her ass.

I'm quite interested in the votes and am avidly watching how my wagon develops.

And yet you're not talking to anyone on the wagon?

Anyways, you all get the idea. Now for the fun part: scum theatre!

Hey I just want to point out that we had a slow-ass posting day and our battery drained further than any other day so far.

So stfu about spam.

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

befuddled. It seems to be something new every game.

Put your vote back on me. maybe you can save your scumbuddy.

In fact what he said:

1) Literally doesn't make any sense logically
2) Is fence sitting since he's not voting me
3) Is an opinion phrased as a question towards the audience to feign scumhunting and further push a mislynch

pedit: ???

Oh I'm sorry I thought I was voting you

VOTE: ffery

Do you feel better now?

I am not a he.

When I am ready to vote again I will vote.

speaking of pushing a mislynch, where's that case you never made?

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

I was ON Whimsical Eggplant when I did this, your logic insinuates that I was trying to absorb the lynch on my scumbuddy who I was voting to protect a PR

What the fuck does that even mean

I am not a he.

When I am ready to vote again I will vote.

speaking of pushing a mislynch, where's that case you never made?

ITT ffery ignores the shit post he just made to ask a stupid question

Oh I'm sorry I thought I was voting you

VOTE: ffery

Do you feel better now?

Yeah I am sure you forgot all about putting Antagon at L-1.

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

I was ON Whimsical Eggplant when I did this, your logic insinuates that I was trying to absorb the lynch on my scumbuddy who I was voting to protect a PR

What the fuck does that even mean

Yeah, nobody's ever heard of distancing.

I am not a he.

When I am ready to vote again I will vote.

speaking of pushing a mislynch, where's that case you never made?

ITT ffery ignores the shit post he just made to ask a stupid question

You have a lot of room to talk

In post 396, fferyllt wrote:
Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

I thought you and antagon were the same person when I posted this

But you shouldn't take that to be true because that would ruin your shit, illogical excuse for me being scum

Yeah, nobody's ever heard of distancing.

So I just want to get your theory straight for the books

MattP knows Antagon is a scum PR and wants to protect him but at the same time distance so within 3 posts he votes Antagon with a mundane post that isn't inherently scummy, then decides within minutes to fakeclaim in response to Tierce and troll her and act scummy to move the wagon over to myself, and then within the same page jumps off of Antagon back onto you immediately which defeats the point of distancing and in fact would draw us together even more

Is that the story?

Question of the day:

Would any rational town player naturally come up with this theory?

In post 396, fferyllt wrote:
Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

I thought you and antagon were the same person when I posted this

But you shouldn't take that to be true because that would ruin your shit, illogical excuse for me being scum

Interesting how the thread cleared out after we got into it.

What does that have to do with anything

What does that have to do with anything

I'm not sure.

The troll was me acting confused about how lynches work

If you think that I did that for towncred then fine but stop being moronic

Ok, so this was a genuine reaction, I think. All that capslock was bullshit.

Ok, so this was a genuine reaction, I think. All that capslock was bullshit.

Lolwut? So I'm genuine town but lying at the same time?

No, I don't think you are lying, not with that reaction.

Okay. Let's sum that exchange and give some context. Mattp and Tammy were in an argument because Matt claimed VT at a completely arbitrary point. Fery wades into the conversation, asking the arbitrarily inane question of "do you[tammy] think that matt is trying to save a scum PR with his performance", implying that fery thinks Mattp is scum (even though her most recent post regarding matt calls him null). Matt jumps on this and the above exchange subsequently spawns. Posts #399-411 contain pretty blatant posturing from both parties. Near the end, Matt gets distracted by Tammy again and fires off that his claim was a troll. Fery, in a curious inversion of her original implication (and pretty much in disregard of that entire exchange), calls Matt town for this. Matt, rather than pouncing on this, merely

accepts

this totally contradictory reasoning for Matt-town(especially since fery just spent the last 30 minutes or so calling him scum) and

completely ignores

this entire exchange when someone finally wrings his reasons out for fery-scum over 100 posts later in #541. Scum theatre, ladies and gentlemen.

Okie doke, I'm sort of compressing points two and three because they're so interlinked. What don't I like about fery's analyses scumhunting you ask. Well my children, I SHALL DELIVER! (and I'm not putting this in a spoiler, this is the crux of my argument and you can fucking jolly well read it)

I've been thinking about that newbie game. I assume pjo gambits no matter what alignment he is.

fiery, pjo, tell me about pjo's scum game, or at least point me to the ones that you are talking about.

I haven't seen his scum game. I replaced into a newbie game that he had earlier replaced out of. The first 3 pages of that game were hilarious and Pjo IMO played a significant role in tripping up one scum player who just could not let go of his play or his replacement.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27639

It was a perfect town win.

I haven't seen his scum game.

So why do you think that he gambits as either alignment?

I was asking mrbungles because they've played together elsewhere.

But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment.

This was the first question mark I got from fery. Look at the progression here: she sees pjo gambiting, calls it null. When queried, she pulls a town game out and shows pjo doing wild shit(completely unrelated wild shit, mind you) as town. She then makes the assumption that the gambit is null as it would "be awfully easy to spot as scum". She doesn't query pjovek as to what he's doing. The meta she pulled is sketchily related to this (pjo wasn't gambitting in that game afaict, rather piling on pressure to people in early game). She caps it all by making an assumption about pjo's play thus far that is both lazy and based on a bad assumption in and of itself (e.g. that pjo is competent scum, which she knows nothing of since he has no completed scumgames on site).

So we have fery making lazy and superficial assumptions, right on the first pages. Moving right along.

I like your town list. I'd add mrbungle to the probtown.

withholding judgement on Pjo.

And you're town.

Takes and copies mah townlist, adds bungle for no apparent reason. She posts reasons, but not for ~200 posts or so.

aaand probtown on Pjo.

Again with the no explaining things.

One post by whimsical, with the might-be slip. This game isn't exactly on fire with posts, but that's still pretty low involvement.

That's where my vote would go given the current state of the game.

Up to this point, fery has not mentioned Whimsical in any way. No town read, no scum read, no comment on the slip, nothing. She is going with the flow, not voting, but calling a publicly acceptable target for a future vote.

I find mrbungle's paranoia about me refreshing and it's part of the reason why I think he's town. This is the first game we've played from the start, and I think if he'd had only a few posts to read instead of dozens in the dragonballz micro game he'd have had similar misgivings.

Finally, an explanation on bungletown! And it has to do with... bungle's paranoia? *checks bungleISO* Yeah, totally not seeing that. Not seeing much of anything from bungle's ISO, for that matter. This was made up from whole cloth.

Why pjovek is scum:

1. Anti-town proposal of the mass universe claim.

2. Vote on Sword of Omens looks more like trying to look like he's doing something than actually doing something.

3. He made up a false reason to be suspicious of Sword - that Sword promised to continue lurking. When I called him out on it he kept pushing it.

4. When I questioned him about what he thought of policy lynching in this game rather than just answering he attempts to cast suspicion on to me for trying to instill fear and paranoia about the wagon. Now he's asking me why I chose to appeal to emotion, which never happened, and he's refusing to point out what he's talking about, and deciding to accuse me of not reading.

I thought your theory is that I am scum and buddying pjovik up.

This came from out of nowhere. Zdenek mentioned her buddying Pjo twice (#73 and #216), yet she reads a "why pjo is scum" post and somehow her mind goes to "but I thought you thought I was scum buddying pjo?"

So, town vibe from Zdenek, too, it seems.

Scum need to come out and play.

Zdenek says he doesn't think she is scummy for her pjovek read, and BAM! Free townread for Zdenek. Hmm...

I accepted Tierce and Enomis based on not seeing anything particularly scummy looking in their posts at the time, but have since firmed up my own thoughts

Tierce is pushing people for explanations - well, some people. She hasn't pushed me for anything but reads. Her concern about the whimsical eggplant bandwagon looks townish-MS since there's an expectation that if a person doesn't come back and answer questions they will be replaced. MS-acclimated scum on the other hand might be more interested in pushing that bandwagon through.

Enomis' quick jump on Whimsical's potential slip looks either hyper-vigilant town or possibly (lower likelihood imo) scum who has had similar thoughts or conversations. But, the concern when this bandwagon took off, the check on other postings and pointing up the possibility of a quick mobile catch-up looks like a town player worried about a bandwagon suddenly picking up an unusual amount of steam, and trying to apply brakes.

Translation: "I sheeped Syr's reads on the two, but I went back and found townie-looking things in their ISO when you all asked me about it".

So, my counter-to-the-prevailing-winds reads of mrbungle and pjovik.

They both play on a site where game days are short - 48 hours, I think, and although majority lynch is often the format, from what I've seen reaching 50% + 1 does not end the game day. Players can run the bandwagon beyond that threshold and back down.

I learned mafia on sites with 12-24 hour game days and plurality lynch. At MS, due to still not quite getting all the nuances of majority lynch ending the day, I tend to be either way overcautious about bandwagons or sometimes leap with alarming speed on a fast moving wagon. If you want examples of games where I've done one or the other, let me know and I'll provide links. Overall, I'm tending toward over-cautious at MS, but want to add back some assertiveness because I believe I'm more effective that way.

Anyway, that's a bit of a digression but it's important because it's why I am pretty good at reading players from similar backgrounds. But, I have some concern that I default to thinking the background-influenced style is town.

The MS norm of inactive players being eventually replaced is not a universal thing. pjovik plays where that assumption is not valid. IMO, pjovik's attitude toward the whimsical eggplant wagon is shaped by his mafia background, and I'm reading it as town in this context. I also am reading his gambiting as town. In the newbie game I linked and mentioned earlier he gambited with some posts that look anti-town on the face of it, quickly rounded on the people who reacted, and had a dramatic effect, ending what is fondly known as rvs in these parts.

8 parts digression, 3 parts pjo, 0 parts meaningful scumhunting. She spends 75% of this part of the post talking about the background that pjo comes from but fails to tie it in to how that makes him look town. In her analysis of pjovek she talks about how his attitude is shaped by his background and that his gambit is town as shown by her meta. Yet the crucial links are missing: why does his background indicate his attitude is town? Why does the meta show his gambit is town? (a couple of anti-town posts turned around is a far cry from a mass flavor claim gambit IMO) There are many words, but two thirds of them are a digression and one third is a repetition of her earlier post w.r.t. pjo.

re bungles, as I've said, the paranoia doesn't surprise me since this is our first time starting a game together, though I guess it does disappoint me a little. I've had the impression that I'm an easy read for him and others who who play the game offsite, which has been kinda refreshing. His low participation would be worrying me, but when I let him know about this game in sign-ups he mentioned that he would not be around much if the game started up soon. And it did start up soon.

Another repetition of this fabricated paranoia towntell. Fery is still operating on a townread from two hundred posts ago (generated at best on a shaky inference or at worst on an outright fabrication), yet she shows no interest in following up on that read or refreshing it. She claims bungle's lack of activity is slightly concerning but she seems content to leave it at that (<-- town fery? nooooope).

I still think Antagon looks bad and I am not sure what to make of his claim. SOO bothers me. And I don't like hp_leaves nearly as much as I did mrbungles.

This reads/concerns with no followup is getting to be habit-forming. Calls out concerns on hp, SOO, Antagon, no attempt to actually divine their alignments.

I'm kinda concerned about hp_leaves and SoO after rereading last night.

I had forgotten why I thought Oversoul was town, but rereading, I feel pretty good about him being town.

zachrules has posted quite a bit. I can't decide if I just disagree with him frequently or he's coming to the game with a different motivation.

More of the same. Also repeats a fair amount of 602.

***********************************************************************************************

Even though he didn't give a reason, the timing of mrbungle's 2nd vote on me fit and even sort of anticipated later reactions. hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

This is perhaps the number one reason I am so convinced of fery-scum. I thought her stance on hp leaves was curious to say the least, especially considering she had a townread on his predecessor mrbungle. This reasoning for hp-scum is incredibly superficial and downright un-fery-ish. Look at her reasons for hp-scum: no reason for an unvote, hp hasn't interacted much with other players and has instead focused on Mattp and Antagon, the two main topics of discussion when hp joined in.

This is incredibly, incredibly superficial (yes I'm repeating myself, fuck off). She's taking some things HP has done completely out of context: the unvote was HP's first move when replacing in, that's not freaking scummy; hp's concentration on the major issues at hand is perfectly acceptable considering that as of #777 he hadn't even bothered to read the game yet. It was patently obvious when hp replaced in he hadn't read the game as yet, but fery jumps on the "he's just concentrating on the major shit at hand he's a scumbutt". She's not even bothering to consider the whys and wherefores of hp's actions but only skimming his ISO and grabbing scummy things to shove at me in response to my question as to why she suspects hp. When I called her out on her reasoning, here was her response:

hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

Upon ISO skim of hp, his unvote was when he replaced in. Why should he give reasons for unvoting from whatever his predecessor was doing? Why does that make him scummy?

It was a vote on one of the also-ran wagons. If the vote had been on the leading wagon, my first act as a replacement would have been to unvote if for no other reason than to ensure could catch up.

The point about hp being shallow and only focusing on mattp/antagon isn't bad, but hp's thought process is pretty clear IMO. From what I've seen of scumHP (and don't ask me to elaborate, I can't), hp doesn't have a clear thought process as scum.

Ok, good to know.

Her reasoning on the unvote being scummy is very weak and she doesn't object at all to my point about hp's thought process. If hp [leaves] were a legitimate scumread, she'd have questioned me, pushed me, challenged me,

something

. None of this meek "Ok, good to know" shiot. I should have pushed her more on it then.
************************************************************************************************

I also would like to note #651. I'm not going to quote it directly, but notice after all that trajectory analysis fery performs in that post she fails to actually say whether zach is town or scum.

Jesus H. Bloody Christ. That took me

forever

to make.

TLDR

: Go read the damn bullet points at the top. At least try to skim the wall, bare minimum read between the stars.
VOTE: fferyllt
PS: I will cheerfully swap my vote to Mattp if fery lynch doesn't gain traction, this should be obvious from the section on scum theatre

[Vi]

~Vote Count XXVII

hp [leaves] (3) ~ Zdenek, Amrun, implosion
MattP (3) ~ Tammy, Katsuki, hp [leaves]
fferyllt (1) ~ Syryana

Not Voting:

fferyllt,

(implosion,) (Katsuki,)

MattP,

(hp [leaves],)

Oversoul,

(Amrun,)

sword_of_omens,

(Syryana,)

Tierce

--With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
--Deadline is 04:20 EDT on June 26, 2013.

(Only got 2 days left)

[fferyllt]

That was a lot of effort to put into a case for an inaccurate read. But, at least it helps firm up my faltering read on you, because I can't imagine you putting that much effort into it as scum.

I'm not going to refute it bit by bit before I'm actually awake (and maybe not even then...it reminds me of another case that was mostly accurate in terms of stuff I posted, but was describing things that clearly aren't scum-motivated since I wasn't scum).

Anyway, re the zdenek town read, it wasn't based on his read of me. It was based on his reaction to Pjo's early posts, which became a sort of sieve for me. Whether players thought Pjo was scummy or not isn't such a big deal, but how they came to the conclusion is. And, it's not been the best of sieves, since Zachrules pinged over it and he flipped town.

More later. Maybe.

[hp [leaves]]

post_id=5053220 time=1372061807 user_id=10128]Antagon flipping scum really implies Matt being scum

How and why?

The first scumslip Whimsical made. New players have a need to mention their scumbuddies in their first post, and he even went as creating a quote and fabricating a townread. Even if he did not knowingly included matt, it is much more likely that he slipped his buddies name instead of a random townie. The only other possible explanation is that Whimsical had some kind of information on matt that matt could not claim, butas both are vanilla (and matt is not the role), this is not the case

[MattP]

PEdit: ...so your role PM shows you as Town in green and you get confused? How is it surprising that (all) others don't get confused on seeing "Town troll flip -> actual evil-looking non-Town-color flip" and make the "oh, he was scum" connection?

You made an effort when you read your role pm initially to memorize the color of your role name? Wow, props to ya mate