Newbie 1390 -- Game Over

[Cabd]

P-Edit:
@goodmorning: What can breadcrumbing do for town? Isn't the idea that town can use it as evidence of their roles? If so, scum can fake it easily. They also can use it to communicate on the downlow.

Day one, no power roles have any information, true?

Therefore there's ZERO scum motivation to crumb and ask about it openly day one. Especially since it is a semi-open setup, scum does NOT know which setup we're in, and fake-crumbing a role not in the setup is as good as signing their own death warrant later.

[goodmorning]

@Garantula: From someone who has been in that position: there are some paranoid people who play here. You gain a little more believability if you have a strong crumb to back up your claim. Scum can and do crumb fakeclaims, and they definitely communicate through crumbs (typically a Rolecop telling their partners what they discovered).

From someone who has been doubted even WITH a crumb: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
(this residual animosity is in no way directed at you)

@Cabd:
I see. I should be on sometime tomorrow evening (EST) if you like. There's tonight as well, but I may fall asleep soon, I'm not sure.
That's why Scum should crumb more subtle crumbs. But you make a good point there about the semi-open nature of the setup. But then again if he doesn't want to be lynched then just implying he has a PR might get people off his back whether he does or not.

[TheGarantula]

Therefore there's ZERO scum motivation to crumb and ask about it openly day one. Especially since it is a semi-open setup, scum does NOT know which setup we're in, and fake-crumbing a role not in the setup is as good as signing their own death warrant later.

Hmm, but can't scum do it in such a way as to be too subtle to be detected without it being pointed out directly? That way they can pick which fake crumbing of theirs to point out later should they decide to claim. Also, I didn't mean to say that his inquiry was scummy; I was just expressing the idea that the act itself seems pointless for town.
Just to clarify, breadcrumbing

is

where you would, for example, use the first letters of your sentences to spell "DOCTOR" so that later you can say "See look I'm not lying; I really am the doctor," by pointing it out.

From someone who has been doubted even WITH a crumb: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
(this residual animosity is in no way directed at you)

Well as you can probably guess from what I've said about breadcrumbing, I probably wouldn't have believed you because of it XP

[TheGarantula]

Whoops, didn't preview well enough, sorry. That last sentence to Cabd should have been a question. T-T

[goodmorning]

It's better than not having one is basically the point.
One does want to be a bit careful when lynching un-cc'd PR claims regardless though.

[Cabd]

Well TBH as both alignments I look for crumbs. I'm sure i'm not the only one. Fake crumbing is dangerous on a site where people know how to find them. Best feeling on earth is nailing down scum that crumbs something then claims another. Scum isn't gonna restrict their claim options day one.

Besides, the best way to reveal rolecop results is NOT with crumbs it's using a code system only you and your partner know. Like I used with JMO in Maestro's newbie.


And yes garg, it can be something like that or something much more subtle like "I'm want to watch what happens tonight before I make any other cases" for a crumb of watcher.

[goodmorning]

^Technically that's a form of crumbing.

[Cabd]

Fair enough. Off to bed. Will attempt serious ISOing tomorrow, hopefully wallpost done by tuesday.

[JasonWazza]

Fucking Crash killed a bunch of my posts, all over.

@Cabd, pointing out that Town Slip is scummy as fuck.

@Everyone not voting best: Why do you think best is newb town over newb scum with the actions he is taking.

@Best: there is no reason to crumb. Plain and simply.

[Guyett]

Wait, what happened to the server thing?

Oh, and I asked, "Are we allowed to breadcrumb in this game?" or something along those lines.

TOWN
FUCKING
SLIP

[bestwillcui]

@JasonWuzza

Why do you say that there's no reason to crumb?

[JasonWazza]

@JasonWuzza

Why do you say that there's no reason to crumb?

Because, there is no reason to crumb as a PR right now.

Day 1, you have no extra info, so there is no need for a crumb, and a crumb can just as easily let scum know who you are.

If you crumb it's basically "Hey scum come kill me"

[Guyett]

I agree, but it could also get the cop if there is one to protect you from the NK.

[JasonWazza]

* Doctor.

Also that is a stupid thought and i will point out why

Out of the 6 possible setups there are only

2

with doctors.

1. Mafia Roleblocker, Town Cop, Town Doctor
2. Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Doctor

Case 1. your a cop, and there is 50% you get doctor protect, however your also possibly going to get roleblocked OR the doctor can get roleblocked, so no use in crumbing.

Case 2. your a tracker, there is a 50% chance there is no doctor.

[Guyett]

Yeah I meant a doctor... derp moment lol

[ryhx]

@JasonWuzza

Why do you say that there's no reason to crumb?

Because, there is no reason to crumb as a PR right now.

Day 1, you have no extra info, so there is no need for a crumb, and a crumb can just as easily let scum know who you are.

If you crumb it's basically "Hey scum come kill me"

Isn't one of the points of crumbing your role for you to point back to later as something to back up your role claim. In which case you should crumb day 1 for the strongest effect.

But

bestwillcui

if you haven't laid your crumbs already there's no point for you to do so now.

1) People already think you're scum. Crumbing now doesn't make your town claim any more believable.

2) You just announced that you're going to crumb. Everyone is going to be looking out for it and the scum will very likely find it. Its for the same reason why people are telling you not to roleclaim yet, we don't want role information to be revealed to scum unnecessarily. Bread crumbing now will be worse than role claiming.

How is that a town slip?

I'm guessing Cabd means specifically that it is a PR slip. Because PRs breadcrumb their roles.
I personally would disagree with that assessment because I think he'd have brought it up sooner if he were.

Vanilla townies can breadcrumb too. I don't think this is definitive.

Newb-Townie gets to L-1 with no other case in sight from their POV. They ask if they can roleclaim and then people tell them nobody has declared intent to hammer. They look for alternative ways to claim without claiming. That smells pretty fucking town to me.

That smells like desperation to me, which is more scummy smelling than town.

I still have a too newb to be scum feeling coming off from best though.

[goodmorning]

@Best: there is no reason to crumb at this point in the game (and especially after asking that). Plain and simply.

FTFY.

@Everyone not voting best: Why do you think best is newb town over newb scum with the actions he is taking.

Well I did give a couple reasons earlier - that his actions could easily come from either side, that his readslist essentially looks like it comes from Town rather than Scum.

Vanilla townies can breadcrumb too. I don't think this is definitive.

Vanilla Townies are expendable, and them crumbing is relatively pointless.

[Derivan]

And the lights are back on. Reading through the recent posts and catching up.

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.06

L-1 bestwillcui - 4 - Guyett, JasonWazza, TheGarantula, Derivan
Cabd - 1 - goodmorning
Derivan - 1 - Fegelein
goodmorning - 1 - ryhx
Guyett - 1 - Cabd

Not Voting: bestwillcui

Deadline: (expired on 2013-06-28 02:37:53)

V/LA: ...

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.


CHECK YOUR VOTES -- posts with votes may have been lost in the downtime.

[Derivan]

Spoiler: GM

Basically he answered capably enough to clear up most of the points of contention I had with him, and a shift in gut had a bit to do with that. He's still in my scumpool though (a fancy way of saying "scummiest ranked (# of mafia in the game +1)" or, for this setup "the bottom 3")

@GM: Feg cleared up most of the points of contention. Which ones did he not clear up enough for you?

Spoiler: best

Personally, I believe that Guyett is playing the newb card, a scum trait.

Anyway, you could just be newb.

@everyone: Best calling other people newbs doesn't lend to the 'just a newb' theory, even though his actions/responses I agree appear newbish. It almost feels to me that he is being coached to appear more newb than he his. Anyone disagree?

Spoiler: Cabd

It isn't like I posted 5 minutes after you wondering where the rest of your case was. It's been 6 hours and you haven't made a wall or a series of posts; you just made one. Why would you start to make a case without finishing? What point does that serve?

Fair enough. Off to bed. Will attempt serious ISOing tomorrow, hopefully wallpost done by tuesday.

@Cabd: You still haven't responded to post #147, Gars questions, or really provided any content besides general strategy according to Cabd. Been waiting on that wall/reads post since page 5 so I'll believe it when I see it. I feel more comfortable voting for you today.

TL;DR
GM your posts regarding Feg continue to give me pause.
The 'Best = total newb' case has issues, but Cabd's continued stalling has moved him to scummiest on my read list.
VOTE: Cabd

[TheGarantula]

I'm not sure if Cabd should be considered stalling seeing as he is the one who asked the mod about extending the day

[bestwillcui]

Ok, fine, if you want me to vote my scummiest, then I will.

Vote: Guyett

[TheGarantula]

Hmm, the last time you posted reads you said Guyett was null; Cabd and Derivan were the only two you said seemed scummy but didn't read as null.

Derivan: appears a little scummy and lurking quite a bit, but I don't understand why Fegelein is pushing for a lynch on him.

Guyett: has some scummy traits, but more town aspects. Null

Cabd: There seems to be a huge wagon on him and I kind of understand it, but it seems a little over. However, he does look a little scummy

You also pointed to JasonWazza as being scummy for bandwagoning but then 180'd without explanation. Why did you choose Guyett as scummiest this time? What makes him more scummy than the other three you previously mentioned?

[goodmorning]

Basically he answered capably enough to clear up most of the points of contention I had with him, and a shift in gut had a bit to do with that. He's still in my scumpool though (a fancy way of saying "scummiest ranked (# of mafia in the game +1)" or, for this setup "the bottom 3")

@GM: Feg cleared up most of the points of contention. Which ones did he not clear up enough for you?

Number 5 on that list of mine from a few pages back.

I'm not sure if Cabd should be considered stalling seeing as he is the one who asked the mod about extending the day

I'll just leave this here.

[Cabd]

Yeah. Asking for deadline extension is not alignment indicative at all.

GM, wanna chat for about an hour or so?