Newbie 1388 Nexlexia Game Over

[DoctorPepper]

Hey, guess what. Point 3 stated that you answered a question directed at Bob. Thats why its bad, youre defending him even when unprompted.
Youre doing something supposedly town to look town, because I've said numerous times its not scummy to end the day if people are okay with it, you keep saying that it too look like youre townie, its something I do as scum too, say something townish to avoid suspicion.

You never actually answer the points addressed. You say its not dodging, without proving why. You dont try to prove me wrong. Because you know Im right. You never say "youre wrong DP" you say "you think youre right"

I know who the two scum are. I also know that people who usually say "lets stop fighting and lets find scum" are usually scum who dont want the extra attention and I've seen it happen before.

[DoctorPepper]

480"Seems like Bacde will change his vote to whoever hammers."
495"Obviously he cannot change this vote to be on the hammerer, unlike what you imply"

Stop backtracking, I can see your footprints even before you've actually killed someone, scum

[Titus]

I'm fine with the attention Dr. Pepper. I just know that we are NOT the only two playing the game. Everyone should be involved in scum hunting. Getting everyone to contribute is usually good. Yet, here you seem to be against even so basic as collecting opinions to push lurkers from the dark. Somehow, my doing that is scummy. Also, don't use this site's meta on me, as I've played a whopping one game on this site. Disclosure to everyone else: I've played before but the structure was very different. 48 - 24 hour days are the norm. Stopping fighting and moving the group to more productive activities is exactly my MO. I want the group to be productive because it increases our chances of finding scum. That seems to be something you have a problem with.

I'm not dodging at all. I'm not going to guess exactly what you have in mind. I've put forth my defense. Grab the posts and provide the context for your alleged scumslip. I'll then highlight where you are mistaken as to the context. I'm not asking you to read through my entire ISO. One post, highlight alleged scumslip passage.

You are again forgetting you combined your attack on Bob with a post that suggested I had no reason to defend Bob and call him a neutral. I just explained that again in that post. Yet, you then call me out for a defense of someone else. If I hadn't posted my logic on why Bob's statement wasn't a scum slip, you would have called my defense an illogical buddying defense. There was no way out the minute you posted the question. Whatever I did would be perceived as buddying, hence the catch 22.

I think we're going to have to agree you pretend you disagree on ending the day early. Even if your theory was right, hammering would have lost all the information we have gathered. We gather a lot of information just by continuing scumhunting even if we have a suspect. Gradually, we are coming to the conclusion that lynching Yessiree might be a mistake. If we hammered before, we might not have had seen facts that suggest someone else was scum. More facts are almost always better in a setup that doesn't have random crap like Drug Dealers in it.

[Titus]

480"Seems like Bacde will change his vote to whoever hammers."

My actual quote with italics for emphasis, I've included the full post below. "Seems pretty clear that Bacde is trying to change his vote

to see who will hammer or push for one

."

I'm not saying that Bacde has a mystical power to change his vote post hammer.

495"Obviously he cannot change this vote to be on the hammerer, unlike what you imply"

Stop backtracking, I can see your footprints even before you've actually killed someone, scum

Seems pretty clear that Bacde is trying to change his vote to see who will hammer or push for one.

NS pushed for a fast lynch which shuts off additional scum hunting, in my previously stated opinion, that's scummy. I am willing to hammer if a better target doesn't emerge but I have my reserva tions given Dr. Pepper's explosions and faulty reasoning.

Pretty obvious twisting of language there.

[yessiree]

Basically, here's the deal: NS and CDB won't play until I'm dead.

Like.

They refuse to give inputs.


Also @DoctorPepper, I don't really get your reasoning behind Titus's case.

If I understand correctly, your case on Titus started when she replaced Rikablu's scumread on Bob's slip with a null read. Then you thought she was scum because of the chainsaw. If my understanding is correct, then this is an act of scum-hunting, in the sense that she is voicing her opinion openly, without constraint. However, I will have to ISO Titus to confirm this.

Now, when you pointed out the Titus(Rikablu)/Bob team, I didn't think this was possible because of two reasons.

First, former Titus(Rikablu) was the first to notice Bob's slip and the first to vote on him. If Rikablu and Bob were the scum team, there is no reason to do this at D1. Certainly, if the lynch went through and Bob flipped scum, Rikablu would basically get the go-ahead town clear from every body. But, is Rikablu that confident that he can win against 7 town after that point? I don't think so.

Second, immediately after Titus replaced in. She flipped Rikablu's standpoint upside down, this was obvious to everyone. If Bob's lynch went through and Bob flipped scum, it's basically game-over. There is not a smart scum move. The smart scum move is going with the flow,

looking for a guilty and not defending "her partner"

and getting a lynch through.

Going to ISO Titus to get a feel again before I post anything else.

[DoctorPepper]

Who will hammer or push for one, im not twisting your language. You literally say who will hammer or push for one. Then you back track later by saying "I only meant push for one, obviously he cant vote the one who will hammer."

The game where two people are fighting and one person says "lets stop and scum hunt!
Frog and jiggsbro get into a huge argument over something, frog as scum says they should stop fighting and scumhunt. Frog says in mafia QT (hi UN, please stop fucking the site up), "I had to stop and dissociate myself with Jiggsbro, cause it was not getting anywhere" unwanted attention.

Self meta time: if I was scum, I would have distanced myself from my partner, soft bussing. You saw me do this with levio when I was scum with her. When I was scum with Bacde, we bussed til he gained towncred. Also its funny how you had a scum read on yes, but decidento go with me cause I've

pointed out why you were scum for the millionth time now

Hey yes, i pointed out way more reasons than a chainsaw. Besides, a chainsaw isnt a reliable tell without a flip.
I have pointed out that damn scum slip too many times already and everyone is ignoring it.

[DoctorPepper]

Why is there no reason to do this? If I was scum and my partner made a mistake everyone will notice, then I would point it out so that no one suspects me and thinks Im uber town for it. It has happened before, dont discount it.

This is giving me a headache.

[DoctorPepper]

Hey, CDB and NS, its annoying to see you post in other forums but not this one.

[DoctorPepper]

My issue is that being the hammer on a mislynch isn't the problem.

.

[yessiree]

HEY YOU FUCKS ON MY WAGON LISTEN UP:

WHOSE LYNCH WILL GIVE YOU MORE INFORMATION?

BOB OR YESSIREE?

BOB MADE A "SLIP"

NS THINKS BOB IS SCUM. DOCTORPEPPER THINKS BOB IS SCUM.
I, YESSIREE, THINK THAT IS NOT A SLIP. TITUS THINKS BOB IS NOT SCUM.
TITUS THINKS NS AND YESSIREE ARE OF OPPOSING FACTIONS.

CDB: "I DONT GIVE A SHIT HERPALURK"

[Titus]

A game where I am town, and I suggest we move on quit fighting with my antagonist, who was scum. In that game, I turned a lylo into a 50/50 random shot at victory and I had to convince a scum to go along with the plan. Trying to get the whole team involved is my MO. That link goes off-site.

I had a scum read on yessiree, but my opinion began to change due to your reactions. A lot of my reads were due to various interactions the players had with each other.

Oh and self-meta, even if directly on point, is rather worthless. Self-meta is something we are all aware of and can change.

----------------------------

@JKR, I think Yessiree is at L-2 now and that we can hammer if we want. If the day is close is close to ending.

My issue is that being the hammer on a mislynch isn't the problem. It was that James May cut off days of conversation. You would be doing the same and pretty much announcing your scum status. You would hammer but closer to the dead line.

I am not attacking everyone on Bob, in fact my former account was on Bob. Saying there's not enough info for me to vote someone is not attacking everyone who did. I also don't have to know Bob's status to see a scummy vote on Bob.

Grabbing the post where you refuse to give an official stance on NS.

That's the post that Dr. Pepper thinks is so scummy.

However, it is clear from the context that I'm saying that the hammerer isn't always scum. It's the timing and motivation behind the hammer of a mislynch that suggest scum status.

---------------

Yessiree, that is surprisingly helpful and helps highlight the factions I've seen all along.

NS and Dr. Pepper seem to be the same and so do you and Bob. I never said explicitly that Bob wasn't scum though. I'm gradually coming around to that conclusion given how hard Dr. Pepper is pushing for a Bob lynch and I think Dr. Pepper is scum.

[DoctorPepper]

Your missing. NS thinks yes is scum and doesnt think bob is scum anymore. Bacde thinks yes is town and bob might have slipped.

Wow, calls self meta worthless while providing self meta. How. Fucking. Smart.

You didnt answer the crux of the argument here,

I never said the slip came from the hammer, I said you slipped because we were talking about me hammering yessirree and you pretty much said "A hammer on a mislynch is not what I find scummy"

YOU PRETTY MUCH CONFIRMED HE WAS A MISLYNCH. STOP IGNORING ME CAUSE THAT IS REALLY PISSING ME OFF

[DoctorPepper]

Youre* missing

[DoctorPepper]

Lol. Titus says her asking people to scumhunt and not fighting anymore is her self meta. Then i provide self meta of why I cant be scum now. Titus then says self meta is worthless, right after providing a link to prove self meta. Logic right there, ladies and gentlemen.
.

[Titus]

Meta is the worth of the beholder. I'm not just going to dismiss something I think is crap. I'm going to SHOW why it's crap. Meta is meta and crap to me. Some, however, highly value meta. Basically, I raised your crappy evidence with better but still crappy evidence. I've always said meta is not high value. That's consistent in my ISO.

Also, how the hell do you know what NS thinks? Scum defense.

I was showing that in post 449, I NEVER impled that Yessiree was a mislynch. You read that in there. That's what I have been saying and I'm pretty sure my face is turning as blue as your avatar.

[DoctorPepper]

This makes no sense. If you thought the evidence was crappy, why provide it? And you say its worthless, so it cant be better evidence and youre just saying this because you messed up so hard nothing can compensate.

Maybe if you ISO NS, you'll see he said all these things I pointed out. Like what kind of accusation is that?

And yeah, you implied he was a mislynch and I've proven why a thousand times now but nobody is listening to me and it legitimately sucks.

[Titus]

This does make sense. It doesn't make sense to you because you place a higher value on meta than I do and you also are committing the fallacy that all players think like you do. While, I personally do not value meta highly as a scum hunting tool, I understand that SOME do. This makes meta evidence value to them. I find meta evidence not as valuable because a) players are aware of their own meta and b) once a player has enough games under their belt it becomes easier to find meta for whatever point that wants to be said. I'm not going to let someone post worthless evidence and not respond to it. That's a fool's errand. If you cannot understand this, then I will be blue in the face trying to explain it.

Grab the quotes from NS then. Post the whole post, not a link because you seem to twist links.

Apparently, you cannot read context because you are fixed on me as scum.

[Titus]

Yessiree, what do you think the value of meta is? Whatever answer you say (unless it contains a scum slip) will be fine. I just want to highlight that people view meta differently.

[JKMatthews]

HEY YOU FUCKS ON MY WAGON LISTEN UP:

WHOSE LYNCH WILL GIVE YOU MORE INFORMATION?

BOB OR YESSIREE?

BOB MADE A "SLIP"

NS THINKS BOB IS SCUM. DOCTORPEPPER THINKS BOB IS SCUM.
I, YESSIREE, THINK THAT IS NOT A SLIP. TITUS THINKS BOB IS NOT SCUM.
TITUS THINKS NS AND YESSIREE ARE OF OPPOSING FACTIONS.

CDB: "I DONT GIVE A SHIT HERPALURK"

This confuses me. I'm starting to come around to thinking you're just insane, but what's the deal with this post. More importantly the bolded. Why are these our only options, and why is your plea for survival "vote Bob instead of me". That's put you back in the scummy camp for me.

@Dr Pepper - I think you're pretty severely misreading what Titus said if you still insist on calling it a slip. However there is something far too clinical about Titus's responses that's bothering me, I'll give you that one...

[Titus]

@JKM, I do MUCH better when I'm able to remain dispassionate. If that makes me clinical so be it. Pressure, if I let it get under me, is when I start making mistakes. So, I try to keep everything objective. If someone cannot convince me with anything beyond emotion, I will feel they likely have no case here. However, given how horrible my first game was on this site, I may need to reassess how much value I give emotional plays.

The post by Yessiree seems to be a legitimate attempt to contribute and his implication appears to be that Yessiree and Bob are on separate factions. I don't agree with it but I wanted to have him elaborate to see if my assumption was right.

Can you post your reads right now JKM?

[JKMatthews]

Fair enough, but a concern about making 'mistakes' really only makes sense as scum...

That... doesn't make sense. Or you think yessiree is confessing to being scum.

Nope! Posting least-to-most scum/town lists this close to night time only serves to help scum know who to NK. I'd rather keep taking shots from the sidelines for now, thanks!

[Titus]

A concern about making mistakes is a genuine concern for town player using logic. A mistake in logic leads to a mistaken conclusion and therefore a mistaken pushed lynch. This is precisely why I want everyone's input. I want to make sure my premises are not faulty.

Neither. I don't think Yessiree or Bob is scum. I think Yessiree implicitly sees Bob as scum or wants him to be scum.

Oh and also on a random note, what value (if any) do you give meta?

[Titus]

While I'm at it, I wanted to separate your refusal to give reads. That's HIGHLY suspicious IMO. If you have an opinion, you should say it. Maybe swap the order or something or say in no particular order, here's what I think of everyone. Players who have to have their teeth pulled to talk are suspicious to me. However, it's not a slip and it is a play style opinion so that might be how you play.

[yessiree]

I'm asking my wagon whose lynch will be more beneficial to town. I think Bob's lynch will reveal the most information, what information will my lynch reveal?

Besides, I honestly don't care if I'm lynched today, in fact that will be quite an achievement, getting lynched D1 in my first game.

But let me remind you that, given the town PRs get unlucky at nights, we only get 2 mislynches. After that it's lylo on day 3 and lylo on day 4.

And @Titus, I don't value meta that much. I think it's better to treat everyone as strangers, but I havn't played enough to have a say anyways.

[Nobody Special]

STOP RESPONDING INSIDE QUOTES. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO READ AND EVEN MORE IMPOSSIBLER TO RESPOND TO.

That said, I have a tremendous headache. I have skimmed the walls but my eyeballs fell out. I'm looking for them as we speak.

Probably real content tomorrow. Unless my headache miraculously vanishes.