Calvin and Hobbes Mafia(GAME OVER! Grownups Mafia Wins!)

[TheIrishPope]

Nono; it's not that you used a night action, it's that you visited Radioactive. If you originally visited someone else, it would have said their name, not Radioactive's.

[Psyche]

Nono; it's not that you used a night action, it's that you visited Radioactive. If you originally visited someone else, it would have said their name, not Radioactive's.

false

[Varsoon]

@Psyche: What did I lie about?
I soft-claimed miller day one. ISO me.
You think I wouldn't be redirected, given how much adversity there was against me on D1?

[Desperado]

Why would TIPscum feel like he needed to claim for false leverage this early in the day? It's not like you've been a paragon of towniness. You tunneled a claimed town PR (that caught scum) based on role PM knowledge because...he slipped in a way that revealed he had role PM knowledge. Your justification above is extremely lacking.

Look at the facts man.

You claim to be a miller neighborizer whose N1 target died. The level of convenience here is far past bordering on reasonable.
Another person has claimed town PR who tracked you to the kill.
You made an ill fated push on another claimed town PR and continue to champion his lynch even though he must eventually confirm himself or die.

If it walks like a duck, and it talks like a duck...it's probably scum.

PEdit: soft claimed miller. Give me a fucking break.

[Psyche]

Eh. Varsoon's posts read as town. His near-obstructive tunneling on Zoidberg still seems sincere.

[Psyche]

@Psyche: What did I lie about?
I soft-claimed miller day one. ISO me.
You think I wouldn't be redirected, given how much adversity there was against me on D1?

You softclaimed a role that provided you information that made you 90% certain zoidberg is scum. Either you really need to work on your intuitive statistics and at best were misleading, or you were outright lying.

The adversity came from town, Varsoon.

[Who]

Convenient how you have excuses for any investigative role which targets you. And really? Your secret info is that it's multiball? You implied more than that. The one thing I don't get is that the scum team would send Varsoon to do the kill. He'd probably be the most likely to be tracked/roleblocked/whatever, given how much attention he garnered n1. Zoidberg and him were the centers of attention and attack, and thus assuming that they had any other members they would send someone else to do the kill.

[Psyche]

Question to everyone reading:

Are Varsoon's posts, absent his claims, scummy?

[Varsoon]

Nono; it's not that you used a night action, it's that you visited Radioactive. If you originally visited someone else, it would have said their name, not Radioactive's.

What Psyche said.
Also, there's nothing confirming for me that you aren't completely lying.
Even if you aren't lying, there's a good chance that a track would track the final thing that happened at night, which was, as I quoted earlier, I tried to neighborize Radioactive Wolf, but he died.
I'm saying that my actual attempt to neighborize was spent on Skullduggery, which means I was somehow redirected to Radioactive Wolf.
There's nothing scummy about trying to neighborize either of those players, and, as I said before, I breadcrumbed very hard about being a neighborizer, a miller, and that I was planning to neighbor either Psyche or Skullduggery.

P-EDIT:
@Desperado: I'm not saying TIP is scum. He could easily be a town tracker and it'd show that I visited radioactive wolf, given the redirect.
He claimed a town PR after I made a huge case against him and he had 4 votes on himself. I explained why he could easily be lying and bussing a team-mate to trick gullible players like you. I guess you're only selectively gullible.

Convenience to my claim? Hardly. I've been soft-claiming neighborizer/miller since day 1. I claimed my night-action and redirect before TIP said anything about it. If anything, TIP's exploiting me, and that makes me scummy?

It seems like you can't be reasoned with, which is a pain in the ass. I could give pages of evidence towards the truth, my innocence, and Zoidberg's scumminess, but it wouldn't mean anything when you disregard what I post and say.

P-PEDIT:
@Psyche: My role-PM contained info practically confirming multiball to me. Zoidberg slipped about multiball and was anxious about it. I'd say that makes 90% certainty of his scumminess pretty good, especially given how he's played the game so far. How could you even know the adversity came from town, regardless? I'm sure there were plenty of people hurling stones at me D1 who were scum, since I'd be an easy wagon to flip. Shit, I'm sure there's likely scum on my wagon right now, given all the opportunistic, unexplained votes on me.

@Who: So, when Zoidberg gives that he's a DAYCOP that's STILL USEFUL to town and he busses his scum-partner, that's not 'Convenient', but when I claim a shitty role and am honest about it, that's suddenly 'OMG SO CONVENIENT!'? Also, if I was sent to do the kill, that'd be literally retarded given how D1 ended. Come on, son.

[Desperado]

That's like asking "Are your steaks, absent their seasoning, flavorful?"

The case against Varsoon is that his claim reeks, he got tracked to the kill, and he tried to get a claimed town PR lynched because he said they had slipped up with information that only scum could have, even though he himself had that information (and claims to be town).

I don't care if his posts are "genuine" or any other buzzwords you can come up with. He's dirty as shit and needs rope.

[Desperado]

He isn't a daycop, he's a Jack of all trades.

And it's not that I can't be reasoned with. There is overwhelming evidence that you're scum. There's a difference.

[Desperado]

Why did you want to neighborize Skull?

[Psyche]

vote varsoons

Should've claimed when we told you to, goddammit.

[Who]

@Psyche
No. Besides when he yelled at us all for being duped by Zoidberg, but his posts are not that scummy without his claims.
@Varsoon
Zoidberg's role was also convenient, though in a different way. And can you point to any of these breadcrumbs?

[Who]

@Zoisberg
You claimed JOAT, did you do anything tonight?

[Varsoon]

@Desperado: Yeah, and one of his uses under JOAT was day-cop, which happened to be the perfect thing to use to bus a team-mate.

What's the over-whelming evidence?

My claim reeks? What about two-shot neighborizer/miller reeks so bad?

I can understand what you're getting at with "If Varsoon is town, and could confirm multiball, then how come Zoid couldn't be town and do the same", but you're pressing the point that I'm scum and was confirming multiball, which means -even in that scenario, then Zoidberg's access to multiball knowledge would be scummy-. Do you see the problem with that argument? It doesn't vindicate zoidberg unless I am town, and I would be more willing to back down on that front given your rebuttal, but the fact he was so anxious about his multiball slip and the fact that he didn't include any PR/PM-related info to back up his suggestion of multiball (he used a PR/PM piece of info in order to get town to do what he wanted, though) is pretty damn scummy.

Give actual, worthwhile logic for what makes me scum.
Point to actual posts that back up your logic.
Otherwise, you're talking out of your ass.

[Who]

EBAODP: Zoidberg, not Zoisberg, and last night, not tonight.

[TheIrishPope]

The overwhelming evidence is that I'm a PR
I'm not insane
And you are scum

[Varsoon]

vote varsoons

Should've claimed when we told you to, goddammit.

You told me to today, and I did today.
I didn't yesterday, because I didn't want to use the info that was a part of my claim to gain leverage against Zoidberg, because that's fucking lame.
Furthermore, I didn't claim yesterday because I didn't want someone to stop my neighbor attempt, but we all see how that went.

@Who: Give me a second to fish them out for you.


I guess you'll believe Zoidberg if he said he did anything tonight, given the current course of the game. You're letting him manipulate the shit out of you, without doubting for a second his influence over you.

@Desperado: I wanted to Neighbor Skull because he has the best town-based logic, actually does work to back up claims, and if I could talk to Skull 1-on-1, we could either actually work to give even better reasoning for Zoidberg being scum or, at the very least, I could scum-hunt elsewhere with a QT to privately do so with the strongest town player (IMO) in this game.

[Desperado]

No Varsoon, I'm not pressing the point that you confirmed multiball. I am pressing the point that you purport to be town, you have role PM information that confirms multiball, and you were convinced that another player was scum because they said something that may or my not have been a slip confirming multiball.

Nowhere in your analysis did you allow for the possibility that he was town with the same information you had. What's the town motivation for that?

Oh yeah there is none.
And you got tracked to the kill
And you "soft claimed" miller
And your neighborizer target died

PEdit: What would you say to my making the argument that you're scum and you wanted to tried to kill the most pro-town player in the game?

[Desperado]

No Varsoon, I'm not pressing the point that you confirmed multiball. I am pressing the point that you purport to be town, you have role PM information that confirms multiball, and you were convinced that another player was scum because they said something that may or my not have been a slip confirming multiball.

Nowhere in your analysis did you allow for the possibility that he was town with the same information you had. What's the town motivation for that?

Oh yeah there is none.
And you got tracked to the kill
And you "soft claimed" miller
And your neighborizer target died

PEdit: What would you say to my making the argument that you're scum and you wanted to tried to kill the most pro-town player in the game?

[Psyche]

Maybe Varsoons just hasn't been playing very intelligently.

[Rubicon]

Unvote

I need to think about this.

[Psyche]

Gah. His posts do read as town and I'm loath to give that read up just on the circumstances of the Night and Varsoon's role. Let me think. Let me scroll through wikipedia. Let me examine Varsoon's report.

...

[Varsoon]

122: "In these huge games, it's easy for scum to snowball out of control.
Let's all work together, keep track of all the players in-game (despite the headcount), and work on it."

This is a crumb to the multi-ball setup (snowball out of control), which also hints at my snowman role. Me asking for everyone to work together is a nudge towards neighborizing.

183: I spell out SNOWMAN down the sentences. I also mention Combing the thread, which would allow someone to pick up on this crumb.

233: soft-claiming miller by claiming scum.

253: Talking more about 'claiming' scum--aka miller.

287 The quote from Star Wars is another miller-claim. "Only Sith deal in absolutes" is said by a Jedi, which is hypocritical, since it's an absolute statement. Also, to outsiders, Jedi and Sith both use the force, and so they'd be virtually indistinguishable. Me, being town, saying that only Scum deal in absolutes, is setting up the same dichotomy, with me as a town miller. I mention this a little in 516.

390: A nudge to Neighborizer with my question to Desperado.

518: Hoping Psyche'll pick up on my crumb/people will in general. I do the same in several posts, such as 527, when I ask people to actually read what I've been posting.

527: I call Skull the most town player, and it's around here that I decide (s)he'll likely be my neighbor for the next day.

532: I start to consider Psyche as a neighbor here, too, as he seems like someone I can have a convo with. I also mention house-guests, nudging towards my neighborizer role.

534: Another little nudge at me being miller with 'run-of-the-mill'.

538: Sucking skull's proverbial dick.

702: I mention miller again.