NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

Bacde · Post Post #4100 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:31 am

Yeah Seanald doesn't make sense as blue unless the whole scumteam is blue, just because Nacho is the last blue

PeregrineV · Post Post #4101 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:33 am

In post 4096, ffullisade wrote:Molllie and I have a few pages to catch up on.

We'll think about the case desperado built on Seanald.

- f

Alternately, if your reading indicates Seanald is town, then you should mention that.
Or, if you find an independent reason why Seanald is scummy, then you could mention that and vote him.
Or, if you find holes or weaknesses in Desparado's case you can point those out.

CrashTextDummie · Post Post #4102 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:37 am

The Seanald wagon seems like somewhat of a "least common denominator" type of thing to me. The most appealing aspect of it is that his neighbor is on board, but there are certainly better lynch candidates in my view.

-----------------

Cephrir's argument for keeping ThAdmiral alive is terrible. He's giving him a pass for not giving a shit, when such an attitude is strictly alignment neutral. It's bad play if he's town (in that he makes no effort to help his faction), but can work as a strategy if he's scum, as evidenced by Cephrir's argument. And then on the same page, he offers up this insight into Seanald's play:

Cephrir wrote:I think that could be something scum might do to look town (unafraid of looking anti-town) but I have trouble imagining town caring little enough to vote for such a dumb reason when they are supposedly actually suspicious of someone else. Plus, why does Seanald care if someone is annoying when he barely seems to be reading the thread?

So ThAd can't be SK because he's unafraid of looking anti-town and not giving a shit, but Seanald can be scum because he's doing it to look town and would be giving a shit if he was town. He's essentially making the same argument for both players, but reaching completely opposite conclusion.

Meanwhile, Cephrir hasn't said a peep about the fact that ThAd is planning to shoot one of his strong town-reads. If he was town, I would expect him to at least acknowledge this in his rampant white-knighting of ThAd.

----------------

Nero Cain's stance on ThAd is just as bad. He flat out stated that he thought ThAd was scum, but that he should be kept around "because he could be useful". From a town-perspective, I can't follow this reasoning at all; if you think someone is scum, you lynch them. An additional killing role has just as much or even more of a potential to further devastate the town than it has to be "useful", and if you actually think the player in question is scum there's no reason to believe that their actions are going to be in town's favor.

Nero-scum

knows

if ThAd is going to be useful to him based on the people he expressed a willingness to shoot. It's exactly the kind of stance scum would want to take if they're not aligned with the people in the crosshair. Keeping ThAd lynchable ("I think he is scum") while letting him do your dirty work. Unlike every other person who's waffled on ThAd, he doesn't want to keep him alive so he can prove his claim or because he actually believes the claim, but simply so he can be "useful".

----------------

Those two (in addition to ThAd) should be our top priorities for a lynch.

mastin2 · Post Post #4103 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:04 am

Seanald is at L-2!

Ninety-Third Votecount

:

(Twenty-Sixth Votecount of Day Three,

AKA, the "Massprod = mass-activity" votecount.

)

Seanald - 8 (Desperado, PeregrineV, ArcAngel9, Bubazak, Cephrir, ThAdmiral, Slandaar, penguin_alien)

Nachomamma8 - 2 (Nero Cain, Bacde)

Amethyst Kitty - 2 (Kublai Khan, ffullisade)
Nero Cain - 2 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie)
ThAdmiral - 1 (Human Destroyer)
Bacde - 1 (Rena)
Kublai Khan - 1 (Amethyst Kitty)

Not Voting - 1 (Seanald)

With

18

alive, it's

10

to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Friday, July 5th, @ 12:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-05 12:30:00).

Bulbazak is V/LA over weekends indefinitely.
mastin2, the moderator, is V/LA for...a while.

Spoiler: Changes from last votecount

Last votecount was page 164, post 4078.

Spoiler: Player Votecount History D3

Spoiler: Votecount History D3

Bulbazak · Post Post #4104 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:08 am

In post 4097, CrashTextDummie wrote: I'd like to be given a day or two to post my full thoughts on the game before we go to night.

I'm willing to do that.

Unvote

Bacde · Post Post #4105 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:09 am

Once again, if Nero flips scum I will reconsider my case on nacho

Desperado · Post Post #4106 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:20 am

Unvote: Seanald

I'm also trying to figure out what it means that Seanald got to L-2 without any of ffullisade, CTD, bacde, Nacho, or Khan joining the wagon.

CrashTextDummie · Post Post #4107 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:24 am

In post 4105, Bacde wrote:Once again, if Nero flips scum I will reconsider my case on nacho

Only one way to find out.

ISO · Post Post #4108 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:52 am

CTD wrote:Cephrir's argument for keeping ThAdmiral alive is terrible. He's giving him a pass for not giving a shit, when such an attitude is strictly alignment neutral. It's bad play if he's town (in that he makes no effort to help his faction), but can work as a strategy if he's scum, as evidenced by Cephrir's argument. And then on the same page, he offers up this insight into Seanald's play:

Cephrir wrote:I think that could be something scum might do to look town (unafraid of looking anti-town) but I have trouble imagining town caring little enough to vote for such a dumb reason when they are supposedly actually suspicious of someone else. Plus, why does Seanald care if someone is annoying when he barely seems to be reading the thread?
So ThAd can't be SK because he's unafraid of looking anti-town and not giving a shit, but Seanald can be scum because he's doing it to look town and would be giving a shit if he was town. He's essentially making the same argument for both players, but reaching completely opposite conclusion.

The primary difference is that, given ThAd's claim, I don't believe he can possibly be mafia. This attitude can work for mafia but it does not work for an SK, as said SK needs to be one of the last two players alive, and a player would never think he'd be able to do that while playing like Thad has been. If it helps, I would rule Seanald out as an SK as well for the same reasons.

CTD wrote:Meanwhile, Cephrir hasn't said a peep about the fact that ThAd is planning to shoot one of his strong town-reads. If he was town, I would expect him to at least acknowledge this in his rampant white-knighting of ThAd.

The first time he said it I didn't take it seriously, but yeah, I should address this now that it's clear he is serious.

@Thad

:Are you able to not shoot CTD tonight if that's the condition for you not being lynched today? If it comes down to it, running Thad up until he agrees to this would probably be worth it. Everyone else, don't end the day until this has been discussed.

Bulbazak · Post Post #4109 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:21 pm

In post 4106, Desperado wrote:
Unvote: Seanald

I'm also trying to figure out what it means that Seanald got to L-2 without any of ffullisade, CTD, bacde, Nacho, or Khan joining the wagon.

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by this post.

Desperado · Post Post #4110 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:29 pm

Those are my five strongest townreads and none of them contributed to Seanald's wagon. It's making me paranoid.

Bacde · Post Post #4111 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:35 pm

Man I really like Desperado right now

Desperado · Post Post #4112 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:41 pm

bacde, I asked you a while ago to show me you had support for a nacho lynch. I'm pretty sure you don't.

So can you join us here on day three? You seem to be stuck on day one.

ISO · Post Post #4113 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:46 pm

To be fair, Desp, Bacde is too busy worrying about Nacho and KK & Nacho don't seem to have posted since you made your case.

Desperado · Post Post #4114 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:55 pm

It's not that they didn't join the wagon. It's that the wagon got to 8 without 5 of my townreads.

Like I said I'm still trying to figure out what that means, if anything.

The other problem is there was basically no opposition. The case is good, but if I'm wrong about seanald then we get nothing from the lynch.

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #4115 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:10 pm

In post 4114, Desperado wrote:It's not that they didn't join the wagon. It's that the wagon got to 8 without 5 of my townreads.

Like I said I'm still trying to figure out what that means, if anything.

The other problem is there was basically no opposition. The case is good, but if I'm wrong about seanald then we get nothing from the lynch.

Wrong. You get

something

from the lynch, but it's

nor

what

you

desired. You still get information, but it's using that information to your advantage.

Desperado · Post Post #4116 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:13 pm

What would we learn from a seanald town flip if no one opposes his lynch?

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #4117 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:16 pm

In post 4116, Desperado wrote:What would we learn from a seanald town flip if no one opposes his lynch?

Wagon analysis.

Desperado · Post Post #4118 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:25 pm

My point is that wagon analysis would be unreliable if no one disagreed with the lynch.

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #4119 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:36 pm

In post 4118, Desperado wrote:My point is that wagon analysis would be unreliable if no one disagreed with the lynch.

;_; you're not getting my point. It's not unreliable if you analysis it against the other wagons.

ThAdmiral · Post Post #4120 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:04 pm

In post 4108, Cephrir wrote:
@Thad
:Are you able to not shoot CTD tonight if that's the condition for you not being lynched today? If it comes down to it, running Thad up until he agrees to this would probably be worth it. Everyone else, don't end the day until this has been discussed.

What would stop me from saying I won't shoot him, and then shooting him anyway?

Bulbazak · Post Post #4121 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:30 pm

In post 4120, ThAdmiral wrote:
In post 4108, Cephrir wrote:
@Thad
:Are you able to not shoot CTD tonight if that's the condition for you not being lynched today? If it comes down to it, running Thad up until he agrees to this would probably be worth it. Everyone else, don't end the day until this has been discussed.
What would stop me from saying I won't shoot him, and then shooting him anyway?

You are a claimed power role, which means you should be more subservient to the whims and needs of the town than if you had not claimed. If you refuse to act pro-town in this way, what good are you?

ISO · Post Post #4122 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:02 pm

Do you want to win, or don't you, Thad? Are you actually going to be so egotistical that you're going with your own self-admittedly weak read when literally everyone disagrees with you? Should I lynch you just for asking that question?

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #4123 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:34 pm

I don't like how fast this seanald wagon has sprouted...

Bulb (at least I think it's you who asked) Scum would set up mis-lynches in multi-ball for the exact same reason they would set up mis-lynches in a non-multiball. they need the mislynches to win, even moreso here since the numbers are smaller and thus, would have more of a desire to do that kind of action.

what's the town motivation of setting up mislynches in the way Khan did because I can't really think of any.

post 4007 was odd and unneeded, don't know why he put it there. I don't even know if I can call it AtE, but it kinda looks like an attempt to do so?

~Mara

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #4124 (ISO) » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:41 pm

In post 4019, Bulbazak wrote:I'm unsure what you're saying. Is it that Nero is always anti-town, yet he always goes after the most anti-town player?

Kinda?

I mean, I don't really find him to be that anti-town but yes, he does tend to go after anti-town players thinking that they are scum as town. I see alot of town nero thought process and alot of town-Nero emotion, confusion, irritation ect... stuff that I experienced with him when I hydra'd with him.

if you really need me to, I can go post by post and pick out what it is exactly what I'm using as a base for my town read on him, but I'd prefer not to >.>

~Mara