hp [leaves] (6) ~ Zdenek, Amrun, implosion, sword_of_omens, fferyllt, Oversoul
I just want to pull this piece out.In post 895, Syryana wrote:This one's even worse. We've played together before and are hydraing currently, but I can't recall doing anything that would garner this much respect. She's essentially calling me town because my town list matches her town list closely enough for her to just assume I'm town. Yeah, no. "Your reads match mine therefore you're town" is sloppy and superficial as fuck, two things our dear fery is not. This is more buddying.
I am rather intrigued as to what hp will flip.In post 1053, Tierce wrote:(Because you're discussing a lot of things other thanMattP is scum lynch it lynch it lynch it.)
In Buzzword, I claimed miller. I got counterclaimed, and that's what your townread resulted from (and the interactions that happened as a result). When pressed on it, you gave a pretty in depth read as to why you thought I was town.In post 1054, fferyllt wrote:It's like the buzzword game never happened or something. IIRC our reads in that game were close from the start and got closer as time went on. I also called my hydra partner off when he started to go after you early on day 1. You weren't a constant fixture in that game, which kept our interactions fairly minimal. In this game you were heavily involved in the first few pages and then disappeared for quite a while.
Well, considering that the game we just got out of (Buzzword) had Nacho-scum in it, and the first thing you think in this thread is "Hey, that dance with Tammy looks Nacho-influenced", why the fuck am I an immediate townread? But I'm getting off point here.In post 1054, fferyllt wrote:I have a tendency to start in one game practically where I left off in the previous game with players I feel like I can read. If I don't get an immediate town sense I'm cautious. If I do, it's more like day 3 or 4 of the old game than day 1 of the new one to me.
This does not remind me of orcinus in BSG, because there is a significant difference in being sure you'll be able to read me at some point (what happened then) and townreading me and otherwise making no effort to discern my alignment (what's happening now). In BSG, you set Orci off because you townread him early in the thread. You, he and buldermar then got into a 30 page circle jerk about each other's alignment, and it was transparently obvious that each of you were changing/evolving opinions of each other throughout the thread.In post 1054, fferyllt wrote:You remember the BSG game. My early confidence that I could read orcinus and trust his view of the game state led to my eventual day 1 lynch.
You being uncautious with your reads is not the fucking problem here.In post 1054, fferyllt wrote:I should be more cautious in my reads if for no other reason than to avoid this sort of situation. But, I'm not and probably won't improve much given where my game emphasis lies.
post hoc stuff. The initial read was almost instantaneous. Back to the Donner party game. I decided you were town quite early in that game, too, but coming to that game right off BSG I didn't make a huge deal of it, though I am pretty sure I had you as town in my first abbreviated list of reads.In post 1056, Syryana wrote:In Buzzword, I claimed miller. I got counterclaimed, and that's what your townread resulted from (and the interactions that happened as a result). When pressed on it, you gave a pretty in depth read as to why you thought I was town.In post 1054, fferyllt wrote:It's like the buzzword game never happened or something. IIRC our reads in that game were close from the start and got closer as time went on. I also called my hydra partner off when he started to go after you early on day 1. You weren't a constant fixture in that game, which kept our interactions fairly minimal. In this game you were heavily involved in the first few pages and then disappeared for quite a while.
Nope, wasn't obvious to me that you were trolling MattP. I think you can probably tell, though, that I'm pretty humor-impaired when it comes to mafia and the stuff that I do find humorous (like Pjo's gambits in this game) I also tend to find town. And like I said later, at the time I had no reason to object to any of your town reads, and later found reasons of my own to agree.In this game, at the point you called me town, I hadn't done fuckall. That reads list I posted? I gave that for the sole purpose of irritating Mattp (which should be obvious in context). Some of the reads were serious, some were not. This should have been particularly obvious toyou, since you hadalreadynoticed (according to you) Nacho's influence in my dance with Tammy (and thus that I was still in troll mode and my reads list should have been taken with a grain of salt). What do you do? You jump on that list like a damn survivor on a life raft and add another townread to it just to make it obvious you weren't totally sheeping me.
Your alignment has been on your sleeve. I hear that you have a scary scum game, but I guess until I get burned in a game where you look town to me and aren't, you are going to be town as far as I am concerned. I don't spend a lot of time on players I have strong town reads on, except occasionally to defend them if they are racking up votes. That has not been an issue for you in this game. But if you recall, I did defend Pjo when he was collecting votes. You came back into the game, and basically did things that couldn't have been better at re-convincing me you're town if you knew exactly what I look for.Even later in the game, when I sort of vanished and you admit the townread on me is going stale, what do you do? You sit back, wait for me to return. You don't pressure me. You don't talk to me. You make no effort to determine if you initial townread on me is valid. You just kinda sit back and wait for developments to happen. You have not, at any point in this thread, made any serious attempt to discern my alignment. There hasn't been some kind of game changing catalyst to give you that strong a read in this game like there was in Buzzword.
Nacho TOWN influenced. He was reluctant as fuck to engage with me in the buzzword game and when he did, he mostly failed at looking town.Well, considering that the game we just got out of (Buzzword) had Nacho-scum in it, and the first thing you think in this thread is "Hey, that dance with Tammy looks Nacho-influenced", why the fuck am I an immediate townread? But I'm getting off point here.In post 1054, fferyllt wrote:I have a tendency to start in one game practically where I left off in the previous game with players I feel like I can read. If I don't get an immediate town sense I'm cautious. If I do, it's more like day 3 or 4 of the old game than day 1 of the new one to me.
Except that my read of orcinus did not waver at all in that. Not once.This does not remind me of orcinus in BSG, because there is a significant difference in being sure you'll be able to read me at some point (what happened then) and townreading me and otherwise making no effort to discern my alignment (what's happening now). In BSG, you set Orci off because you townread him early in the thread. You, he and buldermar then got into a 30 page circle jerk about each other's alignment, and it was transparently obvious that each of you were changing/evolving opinions of each other throughout the thread.In post 1054, fferyllt wrote:You remember the BSG game. My early confidence that I could read orcinus and trust his view of the game state led to my eventual day 1 lynch.
And this is where I say think back on the Donner party game. I took your reads as a starting place in this game. In that one at the end of day 1 I had a couple scum reads, a couple town reads, and a ton of null reads. I reached out to you in that game to try and dialog about players, but was getting a lot of flack for posting in conversational mode. In this game, since I can't get past your looks-scum filter, I'm not trying very hard to work with you any more.My problem with you stems not from that you had an early read on me, but rather thatyou sheeped my reads list and have been buddying me ever since.You waltz in, sheep my entire list, add bungle and oh by the way Syr is town too. You justify yourself much later, after a half dozen people scream bloody murder at you. Your ISO shows no thought process; it's purely reactive. When I specifically ask you to explain yourself and/or rebut my case, your responses have little to do with what I originally ask or the points I made. Your analysis has for the most part been horrendously superficial.
I think a town read of you that you don't feel is justified is a huge part of the problem.You being uncautious with your reads is not the fucking problem here.In post 1054, fferyllt wrote:I should be more cautious in my reads if for no other reason than to avoid this sort of situation. But, I'm not and probably won't improve much given where my game emphasis lies.
And in Donner Party, I didn't have a problem with it, because you exhibited a thought process.In post 1057, fferyllt wrote:post hoc stuff. The initial read was almost instantaneous. Back to the Donner party game. I decided you were town quite early in that game, too, but coming to that game right off BSG I didn't make a huge deal of it, though I am pretty sure I had you as town in my first abbreviated list of reads.
You don't spend time investigating strong town reads, sure. But you don't totally neglect to interact with them either.In post 1057, fferyllt wrote:Your alignment has been on your sleeve. I hear that you have a scary scum game, but I guess until I get burned in a game where you look town to me and aren't, you are going to be town as far as I am concerned. I don't spend a lot of time on players I have strong town reads on, except occasionally to defend them if they are racking up votes. That has not been an issue for you in this game. But if you recall, I did defend Pjo when he was collecting votes. You came back into the game, and basically did things that couldn't have been better at re-convincing me you're town if you knew exactly what I look for.
That game thread was overflowing with invective between my partner and another player, to the point where it seriously impacted my ability to interact with the players that I was scumhunting. There was very little left over for interacting with town reads, unless I was trying to convince them to vote/change their votes. Your vote was where it needed to be exxcept when you were trying to prevent a premature hammer. Given the rate of posting, there was not much to say.
With the exceptions of sheeping my reads list and responding to questions I directly put to you(or related to my case on you), you haven't tried to interact with me at all. Not once. You've called me town, you call my reads good, said I town told, etc. But not once have you done anything along the lines of "Syr, what do you think of so-and-so" orIn post 1057, fferyllt wrote:And this is where I say think back on the Donner party game. I took your reads as a starting place in this game. In that one at the end of day 1 I had a couple scum reads, a couple town reads, and a ton of null reads. I reached out to you in that game to try and dialog about players, but was getting a lot of flack for posting in conversational mode. In this game, since I can't get past your looks-scum filter, I'm not trying very hard to work with you any more.
It got my suspicions started, sure. It was that hp [leaves] analysis that really got my gander up though.In post 1057, fferyllt wrote:I think a town read of you that you don't feel is justified is a huge part of the problem.
Noted.In post 1061, Amrun wrote:You know what makes your analysis of her hp leaves analysis more relevant?
An hp leaves flip.
You're mean.In post 1062, Syryana wrote:Noted.In post 1061, Amrun wrote:You know what makes your analysis of her hp leaves analysis more relevant?
An hp leaves flip.
VOTE: hp [leaves]
In post 1066, Syryana wrote:Tierce, do I have to start threatening puppy doom scenarios again?
Since very early in the game, this is the first time we've been in the game thread at the same time TO interact. And it comes at a point where your read, though wrong, is well formed and unlikely to shift. Arguing with you that hell yes I do this as town sometimes is fun and all, but not terribly productive.In post 1060, Syryana wrote:And in Donner Party, I didn't have a problem with it, because you exhibited a thought process.In post 1057, fferyllt wrote:post hoc stuff. The initial read was almost instantaneous. Back to the Donner party game. I decided you were town quite early in that game, too, but coming to that game right off BSG I didn't make a huge deal of it, though I am pretty sure I had you as town in my first abbreviated list of reads.
You don't spend time investigating strong town reads, sure. But you don't totally neglect to interact with them either.In post 1057, fferyllt wrote:Your alignment has been on your sleeve. I hear that you have a scary scum game, but I guess until I get burned in a game where you look town to me and aren't, you are going to be town as far as I am concerned. I don't spend a lot of time on players I have strong town reads on, except occasionally to defend them if they are racking up votes. That has not been an issue for you in this game. But if you recall, I did defend Pjo when he was collecting votes. You came back into the game, and basically did things that couldn't have been better at re-convincing me you're town if you knew exactly what I look for.
That game thread was overflowing with invective between my partner and another player, to the point where it seriously impacted my ability to interact with the players that I was scumhunting. There was very little left over for interacting with town reads, unless I was trying to convince them to vote/change their votes. Your vote was where it needed to be exxcept when you were trying to prevent a premature hammer. Given the rate of posting, there was not much to say.
With the exceptions of sheeping my reads list and responding to questions I directly put to you(or related to my case on you), you haven't tried to interact with me at all. Not once. You've called me town, you call my reads good, said I town told, etc. But not once have you done anything along the lines of "Syr, what do you think of so-and-so" orIn post 1057, fferyllt wrote:And this is where I say think back on the Donner party game. I took your reads as a starting place in this game. In that one at the end of day 1 I had a couple scum reads, a couple town reads, and a ton of null reads. I reached out to you in that game to try and dialog about players, but was getting a lot of flack for posting in conversational mode. In this game, since I can't get past your looks-scum filter, I'm not trying very hard to work with you any more.anykind of interaction.
It got my suspicions started, sure. It was that hp [leaves] analysis that really got my gander up though.In post 1057, fferyllt wrote:I think a town read of you that you don't feel is justified is a huge part of the problem.
Aww. Here.In post 1067, Tierce wrote:In post 1066, Syryana wrote:Tierce, do I have to start threatening puppy doom scenarios again?
I was going to hammer in the coming hour. It was the one thing I had to look forward to after putting my corner of the room in order.And you took it from me.You monster. Now I'mstillstuck with housework and all I have to look forward to is a potential scum flip. How is that supposed to make me feel?
