NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[Baby Spice]

Zdenel, you forgot Stubbs entering the game with a late RVS joke as a reason for a vote.
That quite often indicates scum trying to fake a rvs reason to vote.
Add in over defensive and he's a high chance.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

VOTE: baby spice

[BulbaFenix]

Orcinus, I would appreciate some reasoning with your votes. Doing otherwise makes it difficult to discern your intentions.

-Bulba

[orcinus_theoriginal]

i am voting people who i think are scum

[ProHawk]

I'm getting off the phone with Bulba now... He's at the library... Here's your headstart to run....

-Fenix

What are you like his little wench? This isn't the only time you have cried "Just wait till daddy gets home!!!"

Confrontation is no issue here, and your other head's idea of debate is to try and crush it with a boot and hope its squashed, which is nothing more than bully-tactics.

To answer your questions...

Wasting your time: Yes.

My point was... I have meta with Crabd, plenty of it in fact, and you accuse me of not looking up meta?

I also was certainly not misrepresenting your case. I was however pointing out the fact that good scum will indeed genuinely scum-hunt like town. They can either forget that they are scum and proceed, or they can pretend that the game is multi-ball and attempt to find scum in that direction. Both scenarios, while not easily accomplished, are viable strategies that good scum are indeed capable of doing.

Also, this sounds eerily like you know what BRO would flip... why is that?

Yes, because "should" indicates my obvious knowledge of his alignment.

Ok, Post in Question Time:

You really

want that BRO mislynch

, don't you. I also like how you make sure that you mention it was someone else's idea, since you could just point to that later

should BRO flip town

.

Maybe you shouldn't include such dissonance in succeeding sentences if you don't want to be misunderstood... tho it's probably just my shoddy reading comprehension right Bulba?

I also find it interesting that you start posting up a storm right after I call you scum. Speaking of which, Dramonic is getting the attention he deserves.

I would love to hear what your ideal "townie" would do right after a Bulba-Bully comes out with his accusatory-guns-of-flame.

Simple. The reason why we voted Dramonic over ProHawk is because Dramonic is a viable wagon and ProHawk is not.

What is this? We have over a week before the deadline and you are worried about putting a vote on me because I am not a viable wagon? What does that even mean? If no one were to ever vote me, then I would never be a viable wagon... so your logic here has to be some sort of fallacy.

[The Goat]

So I managed to miss all the jackassery, and my vote is still where I like it best. Awesome.

[ProHawk]

It creates a giant scum-WIFOM mess.

Basically, since we would only run up a wagon on the person who had the most votes, scum would just have to manipulate the list to make sure that that is not one of them. Let's say there are 6 scum. Any number of them just need to vote for the same person to make sure that person has more than any scum. Beyond that, scum can list whoever the fuck they want on the list. So scum member A could list 3 other scum while scum member B lists no scum at all. Since the idea presumably would be to look back at these lists later to try to build connections, scum can manipulate that by being inconsistent/bus-heavy in their lists.

The tl;dr version is scum have information, town doesn't, that lets scum manipulate this plan to their advantage, and they have too many ways in which they can manipulate it to their advantage for us to use that later for associative tells.

Oh yeah? Worried about a giant-hot scum-WIFOM mess you say?

Town blocks are hard, let's go shopping

How do you like a townblock of me/you/Calcifer/Orc/Bulba/TIP/Zdenek/Nero/MS, assuming we can get everyone in that group to agree? Order is relative strength of reads from most to least, with the first four all being roughly equal.

But you are cool with forming this elite "town-bloc" with which if you only considered probably would have at least one scum in your group of nine...

I call BS.

Mason claims?

...I'll believe it for now. I assume that there are only 2 masons?

UNVOTE:

Will reread to decide whether to jump onto Shadi, Doc, or Stevie.

^ This here is scum people. No need to unvote and idle your vote with other scum reads. Pointless.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

UNVOTE:

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Just because you disagree with the way someone uses a vote does not make that scummy

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Town blocks are hard, let's go shopping

How do you like a townblock of me/you/Calcifer/Orc/Bulba/TIP/Zdenek/Nero/MS, assuming we can get everyone in that group to agree? Order is relative strength of reads from most to least, with the first four all being roughly equal.

and when the flip did you start town reading zdenek

[ProHawk]

From my experience, scum are careful with their votes. Voting hesitance I have found to be in close correlation with scum.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

From my experience, scum are careful with their votes. Voting hesitance I have found to be in close correlation with scum.

what experience have you had with town blocs

[Shadi1337]

From my experience, scum are careful with their votes. Voting hesitance I have found to be in close correlation with scum.

So far it's a bit opposite with me, but then again my story here is extremely short.

[ProHawk]

No history with town blocks.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Tell me what you think of bulba

[ProHawk]

Head is saying scum, gut is saying not - from experience with another pissing contest (with Thor) in another game has the same feel as this one. He is right in the middle for me.

[BulbaFenix]

i am voting people who i think are scum

There still has to be reasoning why you think so.

I'm getting off the phone with Bulba now... He's at the library... Here's your headstart to run....

-Fenix

What are you like his little wench? This isn't the only time you have cried "Just wait till daddy gets home!!!"

It's true that Fenix is not as independent as I'd like and acts more like a subordinate than an equal in the hydra. It's something that we're working on. However, I do not like that your first action when confronting us is to attack the weak link.

Confrontation is no issue here, and your other head's idea of debate is to try and crush it with a boot and hope its squashed, which is nothing more than bully-tactics.

If asking questions, looking for motivation behind posts, and seeking to foster discussion is your idea of bully-tactics, then I'm going to squash as hard as I can.

My point was... I have meta with Crabd, plenty of it in fact, and you accuse me of not looking up meta?

If you used said meta to expand upon your point, I'd understand, but you did not. Instead you implied that Crabd was scum via meta, without looking up or using said meta. This is evident with how you phrase that opening question, where you used "if", which means that you hadn't done so yet. You then end with "Hmmm...", which makes the whole thing an implication of scumminess, rather than an actual question designed to uncover motivation.

I also was certainly not misrepresenting your case. I was however pointing out the fact that good scum will indeed genuinely scum-hunt like town. They can either forget that they are scum and proceed, or they can pretend that the game is multi-ball and attempt to find scum in that direction. Both scenarios, while not easily accomplished, are viable strategies that good scum are indeed capable of doing.

However, there should still be evidence that it is town scumhunting, rather than scum scumhunting. Do you see any evidence of this in BRO's posts?

You really

want that BRO mislynch

, don't you. I also like how you make sure that you mention it was someone else's idea, since you could just point to that later

should BRO flip town

.

Maybe you shouldn't include such dissonance in succeeding sentences if you don't want to be misunderstood... tho it's probably just my shoddy reading comprehension right Bulba?

I have different reads on both you (scum) and BRO (town), and I find the way you're pushing BRO to be very scummy, i.e. you're pushing for a BRO mislynch. However, even though I think that, I still don't know what BRO will flip, therefore I use the subjective "should" rather than the definite "when".

I also find it interesting that you start posting up a storm right after I call you scum. Speaking of which, Dramonic is getting the attention he deserves.

I would love to hear what your ideal "townie" would do right after a Bulba-Bully comes out with his accusatory-guns-of-flame.

Answering the questions and contributing to discussion would probably help, although town should also probably be more involved with the game instead of active lurking.

Simple. The reason why we voted Dramonic over ProHawk is because Dramonic is a viable wagon and ProHawk is not.

What is this? We have over a week before the deadline and you are worried about putting a vote on me because I am not a viable wagon? What does that even mean? If no one were to ever vote me, then I would never be a viable wagon... so your logic here has to be some sort of fallacy.

We had just replaced into the game and spent about half a week catching up, which means that we have not been a part of the actual flow of the game. Given this, it should be apparent that there are some scumspects we'll be able to get lynched d1, while there will be others we can't. You happen to be one of the lynches that I realized that we would not be able to get, therefore it is counterproductive to push your wagon today. I'd rather spend the rest of the day phase pushing the wagon of a more universal scumread than one that hardly anyone shares. Doing otherwise is anti-town and also foolish.

-Bulba

[orcinus_theoriginal]

Why does your head say scum

[orcinus_theoriginal]

It's true that Fenix is not as independent as I'd like and acts more like a subordinate than an equal in the hydra. It's something that we're working on. However, I do not like that your first action when confronting us is to attack the

weak link.

I would not want to hydra with you

Ever

[BulbaFenix]

It's true that Fenix is not as independent as I'd like and acts more like a subordinate than an equal in the hydra. It's something that we're working on. However, I do not like that your first action when confronting us is to attack the

weak link.

I would not want to hydra with you

Ever

Eh. I might get yelled at for it later. As I said, I'm trying to get him to play a more proactive role. Regardless, ProHawk's intent was to identify and attack weakness (The "just wait until daddy gets home" comment), which is more in line with scum intent. Do you agree or disagree with this?

-Bulba

[StubbsKVM]

Well, I ISO'ed Stubbs. He could be scum, I find his pushes somewhat opportunistic and voting choices poorly reasoned, but it's tricky because he could just be new-town trying hard, which could produce the same effect.

poorly reasoned?
Which pushes are you talking about exactly?

Yes.
Nero, dramonic.

Why am I focussed on the nero wagon? Because I don't like it, I don't like those on it. I realise information is limited, and so there's a good chance I'm wrong, but analysing wagons is pro-town, why don't you want me to focus on the nero wagon? If you think doc and stevie are town, aren't you a teeny weeny bit suspicious of those voting for them?

I don't think you're scum because you have a different opinion to me. I'm concerned about you because you're on the nero wagon and townreading two people I'm reading as scummy. Those two people both have wagons on them, so I'm looking at the nero wagon thinking it might be a scum driven counterwagon. It's not merely "this guy isn't thinking like me", I'm seeing potential scum motivation for you being on this wagon. You're also reluctant to join the BRO wagon, someone else I'm reading as scum. Are you really surprised I'm reading you as scum too?

At least now you're telling me why you read me as scum.

It's still day 1, so not that much to go on, so I'm not surprised, no.

What does bother me is that Nero is getting town credit for posting nothing but BS. That's also my problem with dramonic or what's his name. He pops in, post something unrelated to anything and leaves for a couple of days.

The difference between him and Nero is that Nero is pushing for a quicklynch on Stevie. If that's what you have to do to be considered "town", I'll pass.

I've not played a "large" game before, but if we need 13 to actually lynch someone on D1, I'd rather pressure the ones with little or no content than someone with an actual opinion about stuff.
I'd rather be lynched now, than to be stuck with those people in a few days.

I've not been playing long, but I consider scumhunting to be a discussion between "town-players", trying to filter out the "scum-players". When half of the "town-players" have nothing to say, better to get rid of them early, instead of carrying their dead weight.

So: unless Nero actually does anything meaningful, I'm not moving my vote, no matter what anyone has to say about it.(Unless people start mass-voting dramonic, he's useless too)

[StubbsKVM]

UNVOTE:

[ProHawk]

UNVOTE:

UNVOTE:

WTH?

Lynch me now you trolls.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

so why are you only now questioning me on my unvote

[StubbsKVM]

dramonic is my mason.

why should I vote a mason?