Newbie 1391 - Game Over - FINALLY!!!

[Nachomamma8]

I need to buy a laptop charger and this game is going to take a lot to go through. Give me until tomorrow to catchup before lynching anyone.

[Feel It]

Implications everywhere. I'm not voting for him because I have a slight preference for the Antagon lynch, it's not an issue of getting my hands dirty.

[Generic]

In fact I'm so annoyed by that play,

unvote, vote antagon

antagon is now at L-1

What are you doing? You've changed your vote a hundred times we had enough pressure to get a real response out of nacho.

This is your post. You want nacho under pressure. You don't care about whether I consider one scummier than the other, your anger at me stems from not keeping nacho at L-1.

I point out you could switch vote to achieve that very same goal and you come up with a weak excuse about finding antagon slightly scummier?

The same s racon I put at L-1 and you got angry about, right?

unvote, vote feel it.

I don't know why you need to make stuff up to cover your unwillingness to move the vote, but none of it is pro town to me.

[champinoman]

I feel Antagon is town, I do not see the case on him being valid. Thus if I had to hammer it would not be him. I also see Nacho is at L-1 and I would hammer him over Anta, I do however think fegelin is scum, I don't like his play and considering we have 5 days left there is no need to rush.

Unvote

Vote: Fegelin

So Nacho is more scummier than Antagon? Let's refer back to your most recent post where you mentioned Nacho OR Antagon:

Reads:
Town

Generic
Miss Stranger

Null

Anta (leaning scum)
Champ
Feel it (Leaning town)
Nacho

Scum

Fegelin
James May

Seems to me the only difference between now and then is that Antagon is at L-1.

Implications everywhere. I'm not voting for him because I have a slight preference for the Antagon lynch, it's not an issue of getting my hands dirty.

If this is the case then why were you happy to switch your vote when Nacho was at L-1? The only difference between now and then is the potential to flush out a PR and that is certainly anti-town.

[Feel It]

I gave intent (which is a lot different than actually hammering him) because I'm also willing to lynch Nacho. Like I said I'd prefer Antagon but Nacho hasn't been very town either. As to flushing out a PR I'm not an expert as to how that would work out but it would clear them from a lynch, right? Which would make the other one a lot likelier to be scum (unless we've been completely wrong and they are both town.) If not I apologize on making a noob mistake.

In fact I'm so annoyed by that play,

unvote, vote antagon

antagon is now at L-1

What are you doing? You've changed your vote a hundred times we had enough pressure to get a real response out of nacho.

This is your post. You want nacho under pressure. You don't care about whether I consider one scummier than the other, your anger at me stems from not keeping nacho at L-1.

I point out you could switch vote to achieve that very same goal and you come up with a weak excuse about finding antagon slightly scummier?

The same s racon I put at L-1 and you got angry about, right?

unvote, vote feel it.

I don't know why you need to make stuff up to cover your unwillingness to move the vote, but none of it is pro town to me.

man, I ain't angry at you I'm just perplexed, you've gone and changed your vote again and you're looking like you hold a grudge at me now because I pointed out your voting patterns. You seem to make your votes based on emotion.

[champinoman]

I gave intent (which is a lot different than actually hammering him) because I'm also willing to lynch Nacho. Like I said I'd prefer Antagon but Nacho hasn't been very town either. As to flushing out a PR I'm not an expert as to how that would work out but it would clear them from a lynch, right? Which would make the other one a lot likelier to be scum (unless we've been completely wrong and they are both town.) If not I apologize on making a noob mistake.

On that exact same logic can you see why it would be the perfect play for scum? The only difference would be that instead of getting lynched they would get killed at night. Claiming should only be done if lynching is 100% certain.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Looking for a replacement for James May

. StubbksKVM replaces James.

Vote Count 1.7

Fegelein - 1 (Gen_Wolf)
Gen_Wolf - 1(Nachomamma8)
Nachomamma8 - 3 (Fegelein, champinoman, Antagon)
Antagon - 3 (Miss Stranger, StubbsKVM, Feel It)
Feel It - 1 (Generic)

Not Voting - 0 ()

5 to Lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-06-30 08:00:00)

.

[StubbsKVM]

Hello all.

UNVOTE:

Until I've caught up.

[Miss Stranger]

@Fegelein:

Generic already said what I was about to say. Honest Abel and Antagon are, in my opinion, sharing a tactical mindset.

@Generic:

Erhh no offence taken! ^-^ But don't forget my other question. Do you think an Antagon lynch is justified even if I think he could still be an inactive townie?

@Feel It:

I hate repeating what Generic says, but I have to say it, too. If you want Nacho underpressure, why aren't you voting him? He has 3 votes on him right now, yours would put him at L-1. I really don't understand what you were complaining about. Moreover: please explain your obsession with voting patterns and how Generic's ones make him look scum.

@StubbsKVM:

Welcome! ♥

[Generic]

I don't understand the question MS. Why would lynching someone you perceive to be town a good idea?

There are two easy wagons for me there I could join, yet I'm voting for the player who in my opinion scum slipped.

[StubbsKVM]

Just adding stuff through reading.

Antagon

^
gets called out for lurking, and when actually posting, adds nothing besides explaining backseat hunting.
First actual input at post 174. Congratulations.
That vote on Nacho was really bad.

champinoman

First actual post looks good.
That reads list (138) looks weird. "Everybody is scummy" and "Generic is leaning town" doesn't match.

Feel It

looks at other games to get a read on Gen_Wolf and says exactly what I think. Good.
seems like there's some suspicion on this guy. My gut says this is wrong.
Calling town "the town". That's a possible scumtell.

Fegelein

^
His reads worry me. Gen Wolf isn't scummy, but Nacho is?

Gen_Wolf

^
wants a hammer at post 20? And he's supposed to be SE?
Next post and he says he isn't serious. It's a reaction test. That's a crappy reaction test for a newbie game. Imagine all newbies agreeing and voting. That would have been bad.
Now he says his post was "clearly a joke". I don't agree, this is a newbie game. Asks why SE is different from being a complete newbie. Is this another joke?
His vote for Fegelin when Antagon and Nacho are under pressure makes up for something though. Looks like he's not choosing the easy way out by joining a wagon.

Generic

His first posts says he won't say anything yet. Weird.
Not liking his reaction to Nacho voting for him.
That reads post is very, very good. Town
Post 224 is good.

Miss Stranger

can't make up my mind about her in the early posts.
That large post looks like actual hunting and deserves some town credit. Lots of questions too.
Congrats on the pregnancy. Good luck! I can relate to how you feel. I have twins
Your posts are hard to analyse because of their length and massive quoting. I find myself getting distracted and skipping parts. I see you've taken a little offense at people commenting on them. If I wasn't catching up 10 pages, I probably wouldn't have mentioned it

Nachomamma8

*
Loving his first posts. This looks exactly like my first game with him, in which he was town.


Needless to say that I probably missed some parts. This took me a long time to read. I thought 10 pages was easy, but those posts were looooooooooooooooong.

[Nachomamma8]

trange how when I point out meta nacho mamma starts to analyse things.

What distinguished my last post from the rest of them?

Screw it, I'm not happy with the hand waving away if the claim at L-2, but I am feeling like its time to trust the gut.

vote nachomamma

It's typical here to claim after you've reached L-1 and someone claims intent to hammer.

I currently think they are as useless as each other and am having trouble deciding which one deserves it more. I'm not even worried if they aren't scum because they are useless townies anyway.

I seriously have no idea how you can justify me being useless this game, but I'd love to see you try.

Hmmm, well neither of them are voting on a bandwagon, Antagon is voting James May alone and Nacho is still voting Gen_wolf. I can't tell if they're busy or just not interested in the game. Not to put on panic mode, but time is getting short now and we'll have to make a decision on who to lynch pretty soon.

As of now, we have three and a half days which is starting to get onto panic mode.

Yes, I'm here.
VOTE: Nacho
It's clearly obvious that James May won't be lynched today.
This is partially because I want to save myself and partially because Nacho also seems scummy to me.

Warning: Nacho is at L-1.

Okay then, giving intent to hammer Nacho, I want to see what he has to say.

Your top suspect hops on me and you decide to claim intent? Why?

I need to pay more attention to the game.

Convenient that you show up as soon as a vote's thrown down on you.

Also, why does everyone on the Nacho wagon only have the case of active lurking. There's more than that.

If there's more than that, talk about it.

TL;DR: I'm sheeping on the guy with most votes because I suddenly think he's scummy althought not previously suspected by me, and because otherwise I'm getting lynched.
And yes, you guessed it, Abel was scum.

Good pick up.

Seems to me the only difference between now and then is that Antagon is at L-1.

Antagon's also posted quite a few times in between Gen_Wolf's two catchup posts. Don't you think that has anything to do with it?

As to flushing out a PR I'm not an expert as to how that would work out but it would clear them from a lynch, right?

Not necessarily.

[StubbsKVM]

now let's see what I posted here.

Antagon: I don't trust this guy at all. He adds nothing, but decides to put Nacho(who is a null-read on his list) at L-1 when things get dangerous.
Champino: I have a hard time reading him. I'll give him a scum lean, based on my gut feeling.
Feel It: Is actively scumhunting and posts stuff I generally agree with. I may have to reread on him on the L-1 situation, pretty sure I missed some points there.
Fegelein: that comment I put there was from one of the early pages. There's something about him that just doesn't feel right.
Gen Wolf: Those comments were pretty horrible. His being less active later on resulted in votes moving away. I'm not convinced he's town, but I will not chase him today.
Generic: Town. No point in explaining further.
Miss Stranger: Town. I like her commitment.
Nachomamma: His day 1 looks exactly like my earlier experience with him where he was town. Lynching this guy over meta? Who suggested this and why?

So: town to scum:

Generic
Miss Stranger
Feel It
Nachomamma
Gen Wolf
Champino
Fegelein
Antagon

VOTE: Antagon

[StubbsKVM]

at least James May was voting the right guy eh?

[Generic]

I would move champino up and push feel it way down, but otherwise have similar feelings to you there with that t/s list.

Nacho, what's you opinion of feel its posts around the L-1 votes on you and antagon?

[Nachomamma8]

Antagon - I originally felt uncomfortable with lynching Antagon because the case on him was essentially "he's lurking, meaning he's either busy or scum" which is lazy and weak reasoning. But his recent hop on my wagon sent up a major red flag, and there are plenty of things that I don't like in his ISO:

Because lists like this should be posted with at least

some

reasoning behind it.
I ignored the read on Feel It and myself because everyone starts out being read as null. As the game goes on, it becomes easier to get reads on players.

That's not what I asked. I asked why you felt you needed to clarify post #29 by Miss Stranger but you didn't feel the need to clarify post #17 by Fegelein. Here is the post bolded for convenience:

She's fine at L-2.

Antagon is probably Town

.

Considering the above was a read on yourself I find it hard to accept you missed it.

This is a valid point.

Point conceded. However, I already knew

what

post Fegelein extracted a townread from. At that moment, I had only two posts: an RVS one and one explaining why wagons are the best way to get out of RVS.
In hindsight, it was a bad idea not to ask why Fegelein would post such an early townread.

It's strange that Antagon ignored why Fegelein got an early townread on him but called out early townreads on others, then later goes to deny it and is like "Oh. I guess I should have questioned Fegelein on that suspicious townread" but doesn't actually decide to question him.

Doing some ISOs now.
Fegelein:

Antagon has a strange fixation with Fegelein, as shown by him doing ISOs on him first, finding him scum, and not putting a vote down. I don't like that he doesn't really make an attempt to interrogate his scumread, but more than that, I don't like how he keeps his RVS vote on James May after this ISO, as if he knew he was going to find him scum later anyways so moving his vote wasn't going to be necessary.

Antagon, am I leaning scum just because of IIoA.

Only partially and partially because I'm not done reading ISOs yet. As I read more, you'll have a more solid place on my reads list.

This doesn't make sense considering Fegelein was the first ISO he did.

Not happy with antagons antics there. Depending on the nachomamma response I'm tempted to switch over.

That was opportunistic.

What would you have preferred he do though? Whether he is town or not he is going to try and survive. At least he didn't lie about his reasoning.

I'm keeping my vote where it is though.

Would you have preferred it if I had kept my vote on James May then?

I don't like this question; Antagon acts like he had no choice in switching his vote, yet he didn't really try to push James May except for his initial case, and he didn't try to move onto a different suspect that clearly wasn't me.

Overall, Antagon is scummy as fuck and makes for a wonderful lynch. I think it's about getting to be claim time on that one.

[Antagon]

Just adding stuff through reading.

Antagon

^
gets called out for lurking, and when actually posting, adds nothing besides explaining backseat hunting.
First actual input at post 174. Congratulations.
That vote on Nacho was really bad.

Okay, then. Let's take a look at my logic:
>Put at L-1 during the crash
>James May wagon not going anywhere
>Obviously not going to support a lynch on myself, who is confirmed town to myself
>Vote Nacho
Would you prefer that I didn't even bother to try and self-voted? I'm not going to take a defeatist attitude just because I have a wagon on me. I will never fully accept my lynch and would vote Nacho even if I didn't think he was scum.
Why should it matter that the vote was seen as

opportunistic

? Would it have made a difference if I had voted Nacho earlier?
Should I have continued to park my vote on James May instead?

[Nachomamma8]

I would move champino up and push feel it way down, but otherwise have similar feelings to you there with that t/s list.

Nacho, what's you opinion of feel its posts around the L-1 votes on you and antagon?

I liked the initial questioning; just because he has two suspects doesn't mean that he should shut down and not consider anyone else. Beginning to discredit you with the "you seem to make your votes based on emotion" bit pinged for me, though.

[StubbsKVM]

I would move champino up and push feel it way down, but otherwise have similar feelings to you there with that t/s list.

Nacho, what's you opinion of feel its posts around the L-1 votes on you and antagon?

Well that would make sense.

Like I said, I have a hard time reading champino. So must of it is just gut feeling.
And I'll try and reread on Feel It tomorrow. His behaviour on the last few pages had me confused, but I already spent so long catching up, that I don't want to do it right away

[Nachomamma8]

Would you prefer that I didn't even bother to try and self-voted? I'm not going to take a defeatist attitude just because I have a wagon on me. I will never fully accept my lynch and would vote Nacho even if I didn't think he was scum.

Again, false dichotomy. There are three days left, and you haven't done your promised ISOs on most of the game. James May is being replaced, so that probably explains why people weren't interested in lynching him. You could also talk about other suspects and try to reiterate why you feel James May is scum, you could try to compromise with a Fegelein vote... it's not a matter of you or me; you're only treating it that way so you have an excuse to hop on my wagon.

[StubbsKVM]

Just adding stuff through reading.

Antagon

^
gets called out for lurking, and when actually posting, adds nothing besides explaining backseat hunting.
First actual input at post 174. Congratulations.
That vote on Nacho was really bad.

Okay, then. Let's take a look at my logic:
>Put at L-1 during the crash
>James May wagon not going anywhere
>Obviously not going to support a lynch on myself, who is confirmed town to myself
>Vote Nacho
Would you prefer that I didn't even bother to try and self-voted? I'm not going to take a defeatist attitude just because I have a wagon on me. I will never fully accept my lynch and would vote Nacho even if I didn't think he was scum.
Why should it matter that the vote was seen as

opportunistic

? Would it have made a difference if I had voted Nacho earlier?
Should I have continued to park my vote on James May instead?

You shouldn't be worried of getting lynched if you're pro-town.
Voting for someone you don't think is scum to save yourself is the worst possible course of action. It will make you look bad and result in the rest of town being confused at your behaviour.
Not only will your first target likely be a mislynch. You will likely be lynched on day 2 anyway.

[Antagon]

Would you prefer that I didn't even bother to try and self-voted? I'm not going to take a defeatist attitude just because I have a wagon on me. I will never fully accept my lynch and would vote Nacho even if I didn't think he was scum.

Again, false dichotomy. There are three days left, and you haven't done your promised ISOs on most of the game. James May is being replaced, so that probably explains why people weren't interested in lynching him. You could also talk about other suspects and try to reiterate why you feel James May is scum, you could try to compromise with a Fegelein vote... it's not a matter of you or me; you're only treating it that way so you have an excuse to hop on my wagon.

So, the fact that I'm voting a null read instead of a scum one makes me scum? Good to know.

[Generic]

If antagon is mafia, I'm pitching either fegelein or feel it for teammate, both if its a three man team (forgot what the split was).
Feel it refused to move his vote to nacho yet was happy to post intent to hammer on him. It simply doesn't add up.

To me he wants to sit on the antagon wagon in case that ends in a lynch so he can appear a part if it, but was ready to wait for nacho to respond and then hammer him claiming the posts weren't good enough.

[Antagon]

If antagon is mafia, I'm pitching either fegelein or feel it for teammate, both if its a three man team (forgot what the split was).
Feel it refused to move his vote to nacho yet was happy to post intent to hammer on him. It simply doesn't add up.

To me he wants to sit on the antagon wagon in case that ends in a lynch so he can appear a part if it, but was ready to wait for nacho to respond and then hammer him claiming the posts weren't good enough.

Two-man.
What makes Fegelein my partner?

[Nachomamma8]

So, the fact that I'm voting a null read instead of a scum one makes me scum? Good to know.

You completely ignored what I said in that quote. Try again.