Newbie 1387 - Game Over


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Post Post #325 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:53 pm

Post by waynegg »

In post 317, TheIrishPope wrote:Defending someone doesn't mean they're scumbuddies
When I'm lynched, please lynch wayne or FakeGod
GIF is a guy
Hence, GuyInFreezer
Chainsaw Defense (Tarhalindur Version)
The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".
The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense. In general, you can be reasonably sure that this tell is involved if a) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense has not previously been especially critical of the player he is now attacking, and b) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense seems to find the player he is supposedly defending at least reasonably pro-town.
The extreme form of this tell is Mutual Chainsaw Defense, where two players defend each other by attacking each others' attackers. This is a major scumtell, and Tarhalindur would be willing to lynch/vig both players with only this tell as justification.
The Chainsaw Defense is named after the mental image of a player ripping apart another player with a chainsaw for daring to attack his ally. It should not be confused with the Cochrane Defense, which can also be referred to as the Chainsaw Defense (the Wiki refers to the Cochrane Defense this way), which is a gambit made by players investigated as scum. The Chainsaw Defense can also be referred to as the Bodyguard Defense in order to prevent confusion.
UPDATE: After further analysis, Tarhalindur has determined that the Chainsaw Defense is only trustworthy once the player defended has been revealed to be group scum (once the player defended is proved to be Mafia, any player that used Chainsaw Defense on the dead scum should be scrutinized). Otherwise, it is a null tell. Mutual Chainsaw Defense may, however, still be an outright scumtell; more research is required here.
Then there's also the White Knight (aka Guardian Angel) defense where scum protects town who is about to be mislynched to gain town cred. I couldn't find that one in the wiki, hence it isn't in quotes. Still a legit scum play.

Pedit- ninja'd by GiF
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Post Post #326 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:55 pm

Post by TheIrishPope »

wayne, you can't copy walls from the wiki and expect people to see you as Town for it
just the tIP
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Post Post #327 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:58 pm

Post by Alstroemeria »

In post 324, TheIrishPope wrote:Well, you're voting me with no reason, so you can't really speak, huh Alstro
:neutral:

1) I don't buy your answer to the question I asked you in #294.
2) What waynegg and FakeGod said.
3) You still haven't told us why we shouldn't lynch you other than pleading to GIF to save you.
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Post Post #328 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:58 pm

Post by Rena »

vote count
V/LA at the weekend, except for modding duties.
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Post Post #329 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:03 pm

Post by waynegg »

In post 326, TheIrishPope wrote:wayne, you can't copy walls from the wiki and expect people to see you as Town for it
I'm trying to help you I prove your logic and game play you goof! I'm showing YOU two very valid reasons to see someone who defends another player who is close to lynch as scum. That post was for you and you alone. Everyone else already gets it.

When you think it's everyone but you who has the problem, regardless of how many times your flaws are pointed out, it's called schizophrenia.

One final question for you. Are you home schooled?
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Post Post #330 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:03 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

I object to your explanation of white knighting, Wayne.
The target is usually town, but the whiteknighting itself is a playstyle.
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Post Post #331 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:04 pm

Post by waynegg »

That final question has to do with a study I'm doing. It isn't a slight and shouldn't be taken that way.
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Post Post #332 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:05 pm

Post by waynegg »

*improve

Not I prove
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Post Post #333 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:06 pm

Post by waynegg »

In post 330, GuyInFreezer wrote:I object to your explanation of white knighting, Wayne.
The target is usually town, but the whiteknighting itself is a playstyle.
...for scum to gain town cred.

But if you can show me one instance where it was town on town, I'll gladly rethink it all
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Post Post #334 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:08 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

My first game.
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #335 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:09 pm

Post by waynegg »

In post 334, GuyInFreezer wrote:My first game.
Here?
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Post Post #336 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:10 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

Yup. Check my wiki.
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"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #337 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:11 pm

Post by waynegg »

1328 right?
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Post Post #338 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:12 pm

Post by TheIrishPope »

Theory doesn't help you, because I'm Town
just the tIP
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Post Post #339 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:12 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

Yup.
The bonus is that I'm the one who did the whiteknighting.
Self-meta wooooo
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"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #340 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:13 pm

Post by waynegg »

Heh. Didn't notice the tabs. I'll read it and rethink my stance on WK. Any chance you remember around where I would find it? Was it you who was the WK?
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Post Post #341 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:14 pm

Post by waynegg »

Have you done that since? I've only ever seen WK used by scum and I'm sure your meta has evolved since you were a virgin, yes?
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Post Post #342 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

But I also do whiteknighting as scum (newb 1339.) so
Whiteknighting is just a play style.
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"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #343 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:15 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

In post 341, waynegg wrote:Have you done that since? I've only ever seen WK used by scum and I'm sure your meta has evolved since you were a virgin, yes?
Maestro's great idea mafia.
Also borkgame (Icebox)
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"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #344 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:16 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

^
Both me-town.
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #345 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:23 pm

Post by waynegg »

Found it. L-3 in a 7-2 isn't quite the same as L-1. Your positioning, tone, and poe read completely different there. It came off as newbie newb protecting what he really feels. That's not the case here; you've already said you agree something is up with Pope:
In post 272, GuyInFreezer wrote:
In post 267, waynegg wrote:The meta or the deflection?
About frequency
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Post Post #346 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:24 pm

Post by waynegg »

I'll check those out as well. The observation above come from comparing now to 1328.
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Post Post #347 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:25 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

I meant Frequeny as the name frequency.
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The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #348 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:27 pm

Post by GuyInFreezer »

I'm not dense enough to call somebody town for no reason, btw.
The town-case will come soon when I have motivation.
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"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt

"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
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Post Post #349 (ISO) » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:28 pm

Post by waynegg »

In post 338, TheIrishPope wrote:Theory doesn't help you, because I'm Town
IT WASN'T MEANT TO HELP ME. IT'S MEANT TO HELP YOU. I ALREADY KNOW IT.
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