Newbie 1388 Nexlexia Game Over

[Titus]

I only said he's posting on other forums. I wasnt calling him scummy, I wanted him to post. So calling inactives/lurkers out is scummy?

I was discrediting you with that too long post.

Calling inactives out is not scummy. It's the context. If you know he's posting, you wait to see if he's skipping this one. Some people play in multiple games. By your rationale, he has to post in all of them at the same time to avoid being called out and looking suspicious. That's not possible.

So stubborness is a scum tell, because obviously town would never be stubborn, is that what you are saying?
Your example is bullshit and has nothing to do with whats happening, youre calling me scummy for something both town and scum do because I do not think I was proven wrong and even then,mjust because I am stubborn, it doesnt mean I am scummy.

Stubborn doesn't mean scummy. However, when your conclusions fail to be accurate. A person who is really analyzing should doubt their premises. Stubbornness in this situation IS scummy.

Wait. So when JKM and NS agreed to hammer, JKM was obv town (when he claimed hammer vote and agreed on a yessirree lynch) but NS is scummy. So i dont think he is scummy, it means Im preemptively trying to stop you from discussing what he did when Im not preventing you at all, Im just saying I see no problem with it. If you want to discuss it, I am not stopping you.

No. That's twisting again. Your attempt was to guide the discussion away from NS and hoping to get it onto you and me, so when I try to discuss NS's behavior, you can claim derailing. Still, you're not really wanting to discuss the premises. You just label as scummy. NS's behavior was contextually scummy. If you're willing to engage in that conversation, we can have it out when I get back. I've already mentioned I have got to go now.

Holy fuck this is so obvious, im going to bed before I get even more pissed off.

The holy fuck with no evidence again. How many times do I have to say it... evidence is required for a lynch. Quit playing to emotions.


I hope to be back in 3 - 4 hours but we will see.

[Bacde]

I think its most likely Titus and DrP are town

thats all I got out of this discussion

I don't like how CDB is trying to tie us together by saying that whatever I said about yessirree "matched his thoughts"

[Pebro]

I'm not sure what to think of the pepper/titus exchange. I didn't think any of the arguments were particulary strong. It even occured for a minute that they might be bussing each other. I'm trying to read their argument in more detail, but I just see 'blah blah Pepper is scum, blah blah no you are, no you are', etc...
I don't think Bob or Titus slipped.
I'm not sure if no one died is that good. One more player that can be scum.. And another players view from day 1 that can be trusted.
I don't care about the IC not dying, I don't see the point in speculating why he didn't die.

I don't like how CDB is trying to tie us together by saying that whatever I said about yessirree "matched his thoughts"

What's bad about thinking alike?

I do get the impression CDB wants to make it a lynch between Pepper/Titus today and I don't like that.

I wrote it off to poor reading comprehension before, but DoctorPepper is definitely twisting Titus' words to get him lynched. It makes sense for scum DP to say Titus and me are the scum team since we pointed out most flaws in his logic. He'll probably say: "Look, they are covering for each other!" if I question things he says about Titus and the other way around.

With twisting Titus words do you just mean the "yessirree is a mislynch" slip, or something else/more?

[Titus]

@Bacde, What am a missing that makes Dr. Pepper town? Both you and Yessiree have said he's town. Yessiree I know was town and you I know are likely town. That tells me one of us is seeing something the other is not. While I am pretty certain Dr. Pepper is scum, I don't want to be manipulated.

As for channel, I don't like the sheeping. Sometimes a person just says what you have been believing but better. Where do you draw the line. It's troubling but not necessarily scum.

Can you give your thoughts on NS' s day end behavior yesterday? Is it consistent with this site meta? A lynch done that early would trigger a hell of a lot of suspicion. Here, it seems to be glossed over. Why?

@Pebro, Is there anything I can do to help clarify things?

As for thinking alike, that's a way mafia can hide themselves. They don't express original opinions but rather sheep the lynches, regardless of target.

Who is your top susprct?
Pedr

[Titus]

Also, how does jailor work exactly on this site? Is it something the jailor selects at day or at night? Does the jailor get a night chat with his victim?

The jailor I am used to selects his target at day. He cannot jail in the event of a lynch (limitation not mentioned here). He gets a night chat and can execute his target. He also removes said target from his nightchats, if he has any.

[Bicephalous Bob]

With twisting Titus words do you just mean the "yessirree is a mislynch" slip, or something else/more?

I mean every slip DP says Titus made.

It's strange CDB says Day 1 wasn't too short. The only reason JKM didn't hammer was that he was waiting for CDB's return. I think town CDB would have wanted to add something to the discussion before yessirree died.

JKM, why did you decide you weren't going to wait for CDB's return?

[Titus]

Hmm, I do see that. Channel should have at least commented that he didn't have anything more to say.

However, I don't think your question to JKM is a fair question. Yessiree was at L-1. Then, NS unvotes for a bullshit reason (claiming that Yessiree wasn't going to get lynched despite a confirmed hammerrer, so he'd vote someone with fewer votes). Then, JKM puts Yessiree at L-1. Finally, NS hammers soon after. To me, that scenario appears that JKM wanted CDB to comment but figured the lynch was more important to go off. JKM was not the hammerer. This scenario is exactly why I think NS is suspicious.

[DoctorPepper]

Why is it not a fair question? JKM declared intent to hammer, he pretty much agreed with NS. Yet he's strongly town to you right after you called him suspicious.

Plus if youre so certain Im scum, you shouldnt be arguing with me by saying stuff like "If you think Im scum, you probably have confirmation bias" or stuff like that. The fact that youre so sure Im scum, yet somehow still wonder if Im sure you're scum. In mafia, you look for scum not solely through what they post, but how they post, if you see genuine motivation to help town or not, because scum is good at looking town

Btw, stubborness is not an alignment tell and is indicative of playstyle. Just because my playstyle involves being stubborn as fuck, doesnt mean its scummy.

You keep talking about me pushing you as a mislynch when youre doing the same thing. And again I ask, if youre so convonced of me and NS, why have I been the primary source of your tunnel? Because I caught you and you feel like Im a threat to your scum wincon?

Disregarding the slip, everyone should look at how Titus selectively responds to questions and continues to misrep me.this is why we should lynch her.

Bob, so why is Titus town over me? Because I called you scum?

[Titus]

The question is not a fair question because it implies that JKM hammered or was the cause of the hammer. That is inaccurate. JKM did want to wait for Channel but it was clear NS was having none of that. It's not fair to ask someone why they didn't wait when clearly they had lost a good part of control over the day.

I've pretty much done what you've been expecting me to do already. I am pretty certain you are scum. I'm also aware people can know things and be wrong about it. A hypothetical scenario. Let's suppose a guy wakes up and due to a freak of nature, all things red appear green and all things green appear red. He looks at a stop light and wonders why the heck all the stop lights are backwards with the green light being on top. He

knows

that the light on top is green. He is wrong but still would know it and argue it until the cows come home. I'm trying to make sure I'm not the hypothetical guy who is getting everything backwards due to some unknown fact I missed. I also want to make sure everyone else has all the facts as well.

Stubbornness is usually a matter of playstyle. However, in some instances it is an indicator of being scum. If you your conclusions are inaccurate, a logical person assumes that either a premise is wrong or the argument is valid but not sound. You are doing neither. You are supposing all your premises and facts are valid despite the conclusions not matching up to them. That's an indicator of a player that is not playing logically at all, despite what you are saying.

Your next paragraph is a lot of confusion. I don't have a primary source or objective other than to lynch scum. I really don't see how you can say that I'm tunnelling you while checking with others to see their opinions on other players and trying to talk about NS. Of course, I haven't spent as much time talking about NS because NO ONE is talking about NS.

I don't believe I have selectively responded to questions. You however have missed a possibly helpful question about how the jailor works. I really would like to know that for my scumhunt.

Also, why are you again, bringing up topics that the town was pretty close to moving on from? We don't need to necro our issues Dr. Pepper. If there's a specific question you feel is unanswered, you should quote it and bring it to my attention. Not liking my answer is not the same thing as me not responding. You know this.

Frankly, stopping investigations is a motive of scum. We need to investigate everyone on the off chance that we are wrong about each other. The worst thing that happens by doing that is we confirm our suspicions and make it harder for a mislynch. If town players can confirm themselves as town, then the mafia cannot make them a target of a mislynch. If I cannot convince the town directly that you are scum, I will confirm everyone else as town. Then by process of elimination, the town will see that I was right all along about you.

[DoctorPepper]

NS, I'm in the same mindset about yessiree.

Let's do it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: yessiree

Note: I made this vote expecting it to lead to a hammer, so take equal responsibility for the hammer vote as the actual hammerer

This? Its clear they agreed on it. So not buy this shit town.

[DoctorPepper]

Do not*

Your hypothetical scenarios do nothing to help. Stubborness is a playstyle tell and calling someone scum for it is stupid. No, Im sure of it, I have not been proven wrong and the only thing that would possibly do that is a flip. So stop telli me Im wrong without legit evidence.

Use the wiki to find out how a jailkeeper works.

Again, I have to ask. WHEN DID I STOP INVESTIGATIONS? I wasnt talking about it, did that stop you from doing so,

Flimsy shit flailing from scum.

[Titus]

NS, I'm in the same mindset about yessiree.

Let's do it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: yessiree

Note: I made this vote expecting it to lead to a hammer, so take equal responsibility for the hammer vote as the actual hammerer

This? Its clear they agreed on it. So not buy this shit town.

It's clear they wanted to hammer and that JKM is taking responsibility if Yessiree was town. He's not taking responsibility for the timing of said vote. He expected it to lead to a hammer. At no point did he specific that he no longer wanted to hear from Channel.

[Titus]

Can you link me to the jailor entry in the wiki?

[Titus]

Dr. Pepper, you have been stopping any discussion that is NOT you versus me. I'm fully capable of talking with you forever. Our cases have been presented. The town is freaking confused at best. We can talk about others. Yet, you seem unwilling to do so.

[DoctorPepper]

He literally said "Lets do this" indicating he was fine with NS hammering.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jailkeeper
This does not prove why I have actively been stopping YOU from talking about it. If I fine nothing wrong with it, the. i have every right not to say anything. If you think its wrong, then fucking comment on it instead of saying "Ive been stopping you" when I have not done that shit.

[Titus]

The entry does not answer my questions. I was hoping you would link me to something that would answer them.

1) Does the jailkeeper select his target during the day or at night?

2) Does the roleblocker occur before the jailkeeper in the Order of Operations? The first page suggests that the roleblocker takes preference. If there are no roleblock claims, we can infer there is no roleblocker and have just as much information as the mafia. However, if the jailkeeper blocks the mafia. E.g. I'm not understanding preference on the host's first page.

[DoctorPepper]

Its a night action

If roleblocker targets JK and JK targets the roleblocker, the roleblocker wins (assuming the roleblocker also made the kill, the kill goes through) and the roleblocker will not claim (assuming there is one) because the roleblocker is scum in this set up

[Titus]

Ok. The scenario I'm concerned with is Ronnie Roleblocker roleblocking Thomas Townie. Jackson Jailkeeper jails Ronnie Roleblocker. Does the roleblocker's action go through? Or is it silenced?

[JKMatthews]

Hey guys... essentially prod-dodging and letting you know it'll be 2 days before I post much of real substance.

Titus, I put my vote on yessiree happy for the day to end there and then. That was really obvious from my post, and you stating what other people's intentions were (specifically mine) as fact is just silly...

[Titus]

Ok I thought it was obvious what your intentions were. Otherwise, I never would have said that. I guess my grounds for NS being as suspicious regarding the end of the day lynch were not as founded as I thought them to be. I guess I need to take a dose of my own medicine and reread NS's ISO.

Oh and even if you are gone for two days, you might have just helped the town a whole lot. Thanks for correcting me.

[Titus]

That reminds me, if my interpretation of your intent was incorrect. Then the question by Bob is a fair one.

Why did you suddenly want to end the day and not hear from Channel?

I hope you can answer it before you leave.

[JKMatthews]

We'd been talking for over 20 pages, anything Channel said wouldn't've changed how scummy I thought yessiree was... why wait?

[Titus]

NS - I already said I was waiting for a few more people to check in. At the time I stated intent it was only me, Titus and yessiree talking. What are your frustrated about? Can you tell us why you think Titus is a better lynch than NS?

Titus - seems like you're putting a lot of words in NS's mouth. "if you think Yessiree is scum, you should have no problem putting your vote back if your goal is to truly end the day as fast as possible"? Isn't it possible he thinks yessiree is scum without necessarily wanting to end the day as fast as possible?

NS, I'm in the same mindset about yessiree. Let's do it.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: He voted for yessiree

Note: I made this vote expecting it to lead to a hammer, so take equal responsibility for the hammer vote as the actual hammerer

These two posts were five posts apart. There's not much happening regarding Yessiree's lynch. What suddenly changed your mind that you didn't want to hear from these people to check in?

[Titus]

I still think NS has a decent chance at being scum. However, all my thoughts are messed up a bit. So I'm going to

UNVOTE

for now. I'll need some time to reflect. There's just too much here that I'd need to sort through. I'd welcome contributions from everyone.

1) Gene seemed to be forgotten about after his replacement with Pebro. Why?

2) It seems the group is in a consensus (other than me), that the hammer was not suspicious. I'll suppose that is the site meta and that it would be scummy on the site I played on but it's not scummy here. Still, that doesn't change the likelihood that one of the people on the train is scum.

3) NS claims that he never guesses a scum team on day one. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p5027130. Later he does it anyway despite trying really hard not to. Post 252 If you really have that urge, PM the host. He can document saying that you had it right all along. Scum team theories should be used as a tool to scum hunt by pointing out associations. Not a tool to brag and say "convince me otherwise". There is no ambiguity in post 66. NS said he never guesses a scum team in response to a directed question. Perhaps this colored my judgment but I still think NS is scum.

4) Channel's behavior does bother me but I cannot put my finger on it.

I'm seeing too much suspicious behavior. This troubles me, greatly. Perhaps maybe I've been wrong about Dr. Pepper. My gut is still screaming Dr. Pepper is scum though. I'll leave my vote considering Dr. Pepper is still a scum read. However, I'm starting to have my doubts about my own reads. I might be being manipulated. I don't like the feelings I have right now.

[Nobody Special]

At first, I largely thought DrP and Titus was solidly TvT. Now I am leaning toward Titus being scum (which holds with my earlier suspicions of Rika).

Either DrP and Titus are both town, or they are opposite alignments. They surely are not scum together.

Can you link me to the jailor entry in the wiki?

Are you phone-posting?

Dr. Pepper, you have been stopping any discussion that is NOT you versus me.

Wait, what? I didn't see any evidence of this.

I'm fully capable of talking with you forever.

This much is obvious.