NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[Bacde]

VOTE: nacho

he keeps leading these crappy wagons

and then we townread him for it

and then we realize that the wagon is crappy

but then we never hold him accountable

I will do it! I will hold scumcho accountable

bacde, you freak me out because dragonballz.

- f

What relevance does that game have to this one?

[ffullisade]

VOTE: nacho

he keeps leading these crappy wagons

and then we townread him for it

and then we realize that the wagon is crappy

but then we never hold him accountable

I will do it! I will hold scumcho accountable

bacde, you freak me out because dragonballz.

- f

What relevance does that game have to this one?

Nacho leading crappy wagons.

[Bulbazak]

I've been pushing Nero as scum since the end of d1 based on his deflection.

Have you?

Could have fooled me, I don't remember you pushing a wagon on him let me check your vote on him...

If Bacde was independently scummy there would be nothing preventing him from being redscum. He just isn't. And being wrong is not a scumtell in and of itself.

Can you explain this?

Mala's tantrum and the followup by Mara feel very town to me, which is the first time since d1 that they have been townreading so strongly. I'm not sure I buy their Khan case, but I'd like to see how this plays out first. Going to go with the vote I had originally before I was convinced by Desperado to join the wagon.

Vote Nero Cain

This is a good wagon.

P-edit: They just felt thrown together at the last minute. You were also not up to date on Cephrir or PV, which showed in how you couldn't give a coherent read on them. I also found it strange that you would have so many nulls at this point in the game. This shows that you're clearly not reading the game as closely as you should.

Sure were pushing that wagon eh?!

Good work Bulbazak!

Yes, conveniently leave out and forget the fact that I have been arguing with Nero and calling him scum for his deflection since the end of d1, and am still doing so. Good job Scumdaar.

I've been pushing Seanald as scum since at least the end of d1 based on him staying on the sidelines and stirring the pot.

Have you?

Well if you could link me to the part where you make a case on him, make an argument to try and convince someone else hes scum or link me to where you made a nice coherent post to him or regarding him that wasn't a tiny snippet hidden within a wall that would be very useful.

Spoiler: Scumhunting Seanald

Scumslips don't exist 9 out of 10 times and I think your reaching pretty bad.

How am I reaching? Can you not see the point I have been making? And if so, what is bad about it? Also, how about you join us and give your own thoughts and opinions on what's happening, instead of taking potshots from the sidelines.

Need this addressed:

Scumslips don't exist 9 out of 10 times and I think your reaching pretty bad.

How am I reaching? Can you not see the point I have been making? And if so, what is bad about it? Also, how about you join us and give your own thoughts and opinions on what's happening, instead of taking potshots from the sidelines.

I don't like you popping your head in, making a potshot at someone, and then lurking back into the shadows and ignoring anything asked of you. Get in here and scumhunt, or tomorrow I'll lead the crap out of your wagon!

so just based off of Syr's reads, Desp,Red, and AA9(based on his comment) are switched into the scum pile. and baby spice and bacde join the null to scum pile.
theres more to read based off of syrs reads switching but I honestly can't keep it all in my head.

after isoing Syr I can believe that Red killed syr, but if he did why did his team let him? at that point Red was a pretty good bussing option so why kill a person gunning for his death? unless Syr's reads were just retardedly accurate and the scum team got scared of him.

Actually, you avoided talking about Syryana's later reads. I believe the 2 that he was advocating as scum, besides Ryu and Oversoul, at the end of d1 were Cephrir and Baby Spice/penguin_soldier. I'll have to go back and double check on penguin though, and also I need to remind myself what his stance on Desperado was.

All that being said, what you gave us was pure IIoA. Who do you think is scum based off of Syryana's reads?

@Seanald: This still needs to be answered:

Who do you think is scum based off of Syryana's reads?

up for a cephrir wagon as well if anyone wants to get that bitch rollin back up

Do you actually have a case on him, or is this you continuing to sit on the sidelines and keeping your hands from actually getting dirty?

UNVOTE: ceph

VOTE: AK

yeah sorry I just can't stand cry babies.

I mean I get the feeling that what your doing now is very frustrated town flailing but, your just too annoying for me right now, if you can calm down and start doing things logically I'll probably take this vote off.

Can't believe that I forgot to address this yesterday, especially since I reacted to it so negatively. Anybody who knows me should understand why I hate this. I don't care for policy lynches, especially when there's so much more to talk about. It's a lazy way to push a lynch and avoid any responsibility later.

UNVOTE: AK

the vote wasn't personal AK, i just have a self-made zero tolerance rule for people freaking out, its just unnecessary, but you've explained your self well and back in mah town reads.

Desp I understand your case on me, but I honestly thinking your reaching for connections, you could probably go through the whole player list and do exactly what you did on me to everyone else, or even make the arguement that those without any interactions with bluescum what so ever are most likely blue scum, its all just not very concrete.

I was also surprised to see this case just randomly pop up from you, after you were saying I was likely town. maybe saying that spurred you to Iso me and take a second look which I can see, but considering your my neighbor I'd rather us work together on things,

so what questions do you want answered from me? or how can we work this out together because your a pretty concrete town read for me and I don't want to see the extra communication we get go to waste, even though we've probably been wasting it up to this point lol.

Town pacification

and

buddying.

I've been pointing out his lurking and stirring the pot since d1. On d2, he did some IIoA on Syryana's posts and didn't actually come to a conclusion on who was scum until after I pressured him on it. Then after his horrible AK vote and unvote, I actually voted him, which came at the end of that last post. What more did you want? For me to pray to the great and powerful Mastin and have all scum magically revealed to us?

I've been questioning Ffullisade on them dodging Thor's questions.

Questioning. What have you done with your questioning? what was the end result of it? Nothing.

Since when did I become Superman? Thor spent 2 days questioning them and arguing with them on the same subject, and somehow you expect

me

to magically convince the town that Thor was right and that they should vote Ffullisade, when even

he

couldn't do it? Speaking of which, I'm assuming you reconsidered some things after Thor's flip. What are your thoughts on the argument that he pushed so hard, and why haven't you acted on your revised take on the game?

Need I go on?

No, please don't I have heard enough.

Bulbazak does nothing, he may ask questions he may look like he is interacting and scumhunting but the fact is nothing ever results from what he says. This is the meaning of doing nothing.

Which is ironic, coming from the guy who has sat on the sidelines and not even scumhunted. All you've done is throw out an occasional comment and call someone scum. That's not scumhunting. That's going through the motions. And then you have the audacity to try to claim someone else, who has put more effort into finding scum than you, mind you, and has tried to ascertain other player's motivations, is not scumhunting.

We lynch this after Nero.

I've been pushing Nero as scum since the end of d1 based on his deflection.

Which was no more of a "deflection" than Kitty's "ZOMG, LOOK AT THE FITH VOTE!!!" or Mollie's "U R DUMB!" or whatever fucktarded thing she said.

I mean, really. I asked Khan why he thought my setup speculation was scummy despite others doing it. That's no different then your view of Kitty asking my why I didn't find Bcade's 5th vote (THAT WASN'T EVEN A VOTE!!!) scummy/opportunistic.

and now that I'm the leading wagon your vote is where? That's right. You aren't voting. Which is a big reason why I'm reading you as scum, I've been your #1 suspect since day 2 and instead of being overjoyed and hopping on my wagon you are tentative as fuck to vote me wich doesn't strike me as town in the least.

please die scum.

Your actual refusal to read is irritating me so much that I'm starting to get a headache. When Seanald's wagon got to L-3, CTD asked to be given some time to make some final posts regarding the game. Therefore, I unvoted to give him the time he needed. Why would I, then, immediately turn around and vote you, who was reaching the same levels as Seanald, after I had unvoted in the first place in order to give CTD more time? That's why I asked CTD if he had finished making his final posts, especially since I saw him not only voting you, but moaning about your wagon slowing down. As soon as I find out he's finished with what he needed to do, I will be voting for you, as my scumread on your slot is stronger.

That's like half the point of this game; to speculate on players motives. But the question has NOTHING to do with Bcade and everything to do with AK using a "hey look over there defense".

First, you were asking me about player motives based on votes that may or may not exist, from Bacde no less. Bacde's voting history has been eratic, and I really don't want to get into this, especially in a conversation that's about YOU, not AK. Second, AK was not using a "hey look over there defense", she was asking about your motives and criteria.

This is extremely relevant to our conversation/argument. If YOU think that she was asking me about my motives then its a fair question to ask you why she felt that I should have called out Bacade on his "5th vote"

Sixteenth Votecount: (AKA, the "Times are a changin, votes are a not" votecount)
Nachomamma8 - 4 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Amethyst Kitty)

As you can see, bacde was already on the Nacho wagon and therefore his revote was NOT the 5th vote.

YOU are claiming that this was not a deflect and her asking about my motives. I'm calling bullshit on this 'cause Bacde didn't even have the 5th vote on the Nacho wagon and so Kitty's post looks like nothing more than a "hey look over there" post 'cause I find it very very hard for Mala to legit believe that I should have found his post scummy/opportunistic when he wasn't even the 5th vote.

So explain to me how she was asking about motive and criteria based on a not actual vote.

But this conversation is not about AK's motivation at all. This is about your deflection onto 3 other players. I have explained in great detail the difference between your post and AK's, which you seem intent not to listen to. You have since been trying to steer the conversation away from the original point and onto AK herself, which is in and of itself a deflection, which you have claimed you are not doing.

As for the Bacde 5th vote point, Bacde actually reemphasized his vote after AK placed her vote on Nacho. AK could have easily thought that Bacde was the 5th vote, which was why she was asking about your criteria.

This tells me that you are specifically attacking me, weather you think I'm a soft target or if weather I'm scumreading a buddy of yours, it doesn't matter. What matters is that you are selectively scumhunting me and I want to know why you find my "deflect scummy" but not Mollies or Kitties?

As I've repeatedly explained, AK wasn't deflecting, and I've explained this using everything from context to actual post structure. She asked about your criteria, and that question was a small part of a larger post, and therefore didn't hold as much weight. Your deflection was the main point of your post, as that was what the entire post was focused on. You were not asking about criteria, but why Khan wasn't looking elsewhere. You then proceeded to ask him why he did not read you as town. The entirety of your post was scummy, whereas AK's was not.

Are you now accusing Mollie of deflecting as well?

I think your defense of Kittens is scummy. Weather they are town and you are defending them for cred or they are your scumbuddy doesn't really matter to me and we'll cross that bridge after you flip scum. The point is that, your defense of the slot looks scummy to me and that I and no one (besides the mods and your maybe scumbuddy) but you know if you are scum defending scum or scum defending town.

What about my defense looks scummy?

I'll be moving on to page 174, but first I need to take a break, as I'm incredibly frustrated atm.

[Slandaar]

I see you have not been reading the thread Bulbazak.

[Desperado]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25658

here is a mafia Bulb game you guys can read. BBL

My god.

Bulb you better have a few town games where you play exactly like you're playing here because otherwise you need rope so bad it fucking hurts.

[Desperado]

Don't delete that one, it deserves two posts. This might as well be Newbie 1333 2: The Sequel.

<<< ...Oops. I, uh, missed this post, so I deleted the double. Apologies. >>>

[pirate mollie]

Despo, are you voting me 'cause you think that I'm playing different then WWE + you agree with the Nacho case?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

More the latter than the former, because I really don't think the WWE game is a good indicator of your townplay...you were basically universally town by what, halfway through D1? and it never changed. I've never seen what you look like as town when you aren't comfortable with your state in the game, which would justify some of the things I found scummy about your reaction to the Nacho case.

fery, I have to see this game where Bulb dominated as SK. Link/name please?

then look at this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=26483

I watched in horror from the sidelines as he was lynched

[Desperado]

You're probably right sadly.

And then I flip town, and Bulbazak convinces themselves that I played scummy and it's not their fault, and they keep scumhunting in their flawed ways.

Sadness.jpg

He's in my head. No, seriously:

I bet you're wrong a lot, aren't you? Not everyone is an automaton...players are guaranteed to make mistakes as either alignment, get caught in your web of neverending quote boxes and buzzwords, and eventually just give up under the sheer weight of it all. But your conscience is clean because you went by the book.

After reading that game it's going to take something really, really drastic for me to ever read Bulb as town again.

[ffullisade]

Despo, are you voting me 'cause you think that I'm playing different then WWE + you agree with the Nacho case?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

More the latter than the former, because I really don't think the WWE game is a good indicator of your townplay...you were basically universally town by what, halfway through D1? and it never changed. I've never seen what you look like as town when you aren't comfortable with your state in the game, which would justify some of the things I found scummy about your reaction to the Nacho case.

fery, I have to see this game where Bulb dominated as SK. Link/name please?

sorry mastin

then look at this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=26483

I watched in horror from the sidelines as he was lynched

[Desperado]

Despo, are you voting me 'cause you think that I'm playing different then WWE + you agree with the Nacho case?

<<< Double-post deleted. >>>

More the latter than the former, because I really don't think the WWE game is a good indicator of your townplay...you were basically universally town by what, halfway through D1? and it never changed. I've never seen what you look like as town when you aren't comfortable with your state in the game, which would justify some of the things I found scummy about your reaction to the Nacho case.

fery, I have to see this game where Bulb dominated as SK. Link/name please?

then look at this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=26483

I watched in horror from the sidelines as he was lynched

Yeah Nero is town. And that was Arc's town game through and through, how did they not see that?

[ffullisade]

so what in that game do you see different in this one?

[Desperado]

so what in that game do you see different in this one?

Not sure what you're talking about. Clarify?

[ffullisade]

okay, so are you town reading nero now? if so mebbe you should get your vote off of him

[Desperado]

Bottom of the last page

[mastin2]

Indeed.

Too close to the bottom of the page for an official votecount, but have an unofficial one for proof.

Seanald - 5 (PeregrineV, ArcAngel9, ThAdmiral, penguin_alien, Desperado)

Nero Cain - 3 (Nachomamma8, CrashTextDummie, Cephrir)

Amethyst Kitty - 1 (Kublai Khan)
ThAdmiral - 1 (Human Destroyer)
Kublai Khan - 1 (Amethyst Kitty)
Rena - 1 (Slandaar)
Bulbazak - 1 (Nero Cain)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Bacde)

Not Voting - 4 (Seanald, Bulbazak, Rena, ffullisade)

With

18

alive, it's

10

to lynch.

Day Three's deadline is Friday, July 5th, @ 2:30 PM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-07-05 14:30:00).

If deadline were to hit now,

Seanald

would be lynched.

Bulbazak is V/LA over weekends indefinitely.
mastin2, the moderator, is V/LA for...a while.

[penguin_alien]

Is Seanald ever going to get back in here and respond to anything?

The Nero case reads all right to me, and he isn't playing as freely as he was in my most recent games with him where he was town. Nero, you say Bulbazak defended something from AK that he found scummy on you. Given that you are obviously different players, and we have 4000+ posts to work with, why would you expect him to respond to both of you in the exact same way?

Peng:

Are you town?

Yes, although the people-pleasing part of me wants to go form a purple mafia so Cephrir and PeregrineV can both be right.

Who would you be voting if you weren't locked in battle with KK?

Bacde, which demonstrably crappy wagons do you see Nachomamma8 as having led?

[Amethyst Kitty]

Fery makes me sad on so many levels. Like SUPER SAD.

~~~

Actually I said this to Mara after the Donner Party game ended. There was something similar that was said here to something said there. Bulb had a total different reaction to it here which made me lean town on him mainly because he was SK in DP.

~~~

@Peng:

y u so lurky?

If I had to pick it's between ThAd, you and Seanald. Your current lurking is bothering me so much it's not even remotely funny.

ThAd is because of a relative tell and the fact he's wanting to shoot CTD who's a decent town read for half the game.

Seanald because he's lurking like hell and there was something in Day 1 I read as a slip by him, but I sent it pass Mara and she told me it looks like paranoid town so I dropped it.

What's your current read on CTD, but also Slandaar?

[penguin_alien]

@Peng:

y u so lurky?

If I had to pick it's between ThAd, you and Seanald. Your current lurking is bothering me so much it's not even remotely funny.

ThAd is because of a relative tell and the fact he's wanting to shoot CTD who's a decent town read for half the game.

Seanald because he's lurking like hell and there was something in Day 1 I read as a slip by him, but I sent it pass Mara and she told me it looks like paranoid town so I dropped it.

What's your current read on CTD, but also Slandaar?

As much as I like the atmosphere of large games, I find it hard to jump in with anything relevant to say. That plus my generally lousy gut reads don't often leave me holding opinions I want to go after full swing. Nothing better to say in defense of my lurkiness.

CTD is presenting rational arguments with good scum-hunting intent, and his freakout about his neighborhood seemed genuine. He feels different from scum-CTD in the /in-vitational game we played and closer to the town-CTD from Mini 1413. I might not sheep his reads, but he is engaged in a way that is town. WRT Slandaar, I have a weaker town read on him. He didn't try to capitalize on CTD's freakout, and he's looking at the big picture in his scumhunting in a way that jives with the town-Slandaar I've played with. They're the neighborhood I'd least want to lynch into.

[ffullisade]

Fery makes me sad on so many levels. Like SUPER SAD. ~~~Actually I said this to Mara after the Donner Party game ended. There was something similar that was said here to something said there. Bulb had a total different reaction to it here which made me lean town on him mainly because he was SK in DP.

I don't get it.

- f

[Slandaar]

Yes, conveniently leave out and forget the fact that I have been arguing with Nero and calling him scum for his deflection since the end of d1, and am still doing so. Good job Scumdaar.

That isn't pushing a wagon on him. Exactly my point; wall wars with no end product.

that wasn't a tiny snippet hidden within a wall that would be very useful.

Spoiler: Scumhunting Seanald

Scumslips don't exist 9 out of 10 times and I think your reaching pretty bad.

How am I reaching? Can you not see the point I have been making? And if so, what is bad about it? Also, how about you join us and give your own thoughts and opinions on what's happening, instead of taking potshots from the sidelines.

Need this addressed:

Scumslips don't exist 9 out of 10 times and I think your reaching pretty bad.

How am I reaching? Can you not see the point I have been making? And if so, what is bad about it? Also, how about you join us and give your own thoughts and opinions on what's happening, instead of taking potshots from the sidelines.

I don't like you popping your head in, making a potshot at someone, and then lurking back into the shadows and ignoring anything asked of you. Get in here and scumhunt, or tomorrow I'll lead the crap out of your wagon!

so just based off of Syr's reads, Desp,Red, and AA9(based on his comment) are switched into the scum pile. and baby spice and bacde join the null to scum pile.
theres more to read based off of syrs reads switching but I honestly can't keep it all in my head.

after isoing Syr I can believe that Red killed syr, but if he did why did his team let him? at that point Red was a pretty good bussing option so why kill a person gunning for his death? unless Syr's reads were just retardedly accurate and the scum team got scared of him.

Actually, you avoided talking about Syryana's later reads. I believe the 2 that he was advocating as scum, besides Ryu and Oversoul, at the end of d1 were Cephrir and Baby Spice/penguin_soldier. I'll have to go back and double check on penguin though, and also I need to remind myself what his stance on Desperado was.

All that being said, what you gave us was pure IIoA. Who do you think is scum based off of Syryana's reads?

@Seanald: This still needs to be answered:

Who do you think is scum based off of Syryana's reads?

up for a cephrir wagon as well if anyone wants to get that bitch rollin back up

Do you actually have a case on him, or is this you continuing to sit on the sidelines and keeping your hands from actually getting dirty?

UNVOTE: ceph

VOTE: AK

yeah sorry I just can't stand cry babies.

I mean I get the feeling that what your doing now is very frustrated town flailing but, your just too annoying for me right now, if you can calm down and start doing things logically I'll probably take this vote off.

Can't believe that I forgot to address this yesterday, especially since I reacted to it so negatively. Anybody who knows me should understand why I hate this. I don't care for policy lynches, especially when there's so much more to talk about. It's a lazy way to push a lynch and avoid any responsibility later.

UNVOTE: AK

the vote wasn't personal AK, i just have a self-made zero tolerance rule for people freaking out, its just unnecessary, but you've explained your self well and back in mah town reads.

Desp I understand your case on me, but I honestly thinking your reaching for connections, you could probably go through the whole player list and do exactly what you did on me to everyone else, or even make the arguement that those without any interactions with bluescum what so ever are most likely blue scum, its all just not very concrete.

I was also surprised to see this case just randomly pop up from you, after you were saying I was likely town. maybe saying that spurred you to Iso me and take a second look which I can see, but considering your my neighbor I'd rather us work together on things,

so what questions do you want answered from me? or how can we work this out together because your a pretty concrete town read for me and I don't want to see the extra communication we get go to waste, even though we've probably been wasting it up to this point lol.

Town pacification

and

buddying.

That was a lot of quotes which were pointless. A for effort though! Lots of little points hidden within walls do not achieve anything.

I've been pointing out his lurking and stirring the pot since d1. On d2, he did some IIoA on Syryana's posts and didn't actually come to a conclusion on who was scum until after I pressured him on it. Then after his horrible AK vote and unvote, I actually voted him, which came at the end of that last post. What more did you want? For me to pray to the great and powerful Mastin and have all scum magically revealed to us?

Magically make a case on him or push a wagon on him before he is the rabbit in the headlights?

But I admit you pointing out his lurking is very useful noone else would have spotted it so well done Bulbazak!

Since when did I become Superman? Thor spent 2 days questioning them and arguing with them on the same subject, and somehow you expect

me

to magically convince the town that Thor was right and that they should vote Ffullisade, when even

he

couldn't do it? Speaking of which, I'm assuming you reconsidered some things after Thor's flip. What are your thoughts on the argument that he pushed so hard, and why haven't you acted on your revised take on the game?

I can't do anything! Thor couldn't so what could I do?!!!!! I am so helpless! I remember this attitude from you earlier its a good reason I know you are scum.

I have acted.

Which is ironic, coming from the guy who has sat on the sidelines and not even scumhunted. All you've done is throw out an occasional comment and call someone scum. That's not scumhunting. That's going through the motions. And then you have the audacity to try to claim someone else, who has put more effort into finding scum than you, mind you, and has tried to ascertain other player's motivations, is not scumhunting.

Oh?

I made a very very good case on ThAd
I made a very good case on PV
I made a very good case on you
I made a very good case on Rena

Were you trying to make a point? Oh that you do more than me... you don't. As can be seen by the way you don't post productively just walls and walls of noise.

[ArcAngel9]

Mod- V/LA till monday please..

I like the Seanald but its not better than Cephirr, so if you all change your mind, let me know...

<<< Noted. >>>

[CrashTextDummie]

Someone needs to explain to me why we are letting Nero Cain get away with lying on a fundamental level. Preferably Desperado or Ffulisade, because I know they're paying attention.

You've already pointed out that I use multiball interchangeably. I generally find Mala/Mara to be scummy. I did not know if we had scum team + sk or scum team + scumteam.

No. That does not match up at all with what he said at the time:

I have never played with Mala and my experience with Mara is limited so I'm willing to listen to other players that have more experience with ya'll and besides you are helping me kill Nachoscum so you get to ride in my null pile

until I find out that this is multiball.

"

Until I find out that this is multiball

". There is zero room for interpretation here. Nero did not, at the time of this post, want to give the impression that he was considering this a multiball game by default.

He even admits to the fact that he changed his tune depending on who he wanted to push: "I didn't want to pursue AK, so I said A", "I didn't want to derail the OS wagon so I said B". Who does that as town? It's a quintessential scum tactic.

This point alone should be enough to lynch him on the spot.

And this is just getting silly:

So what am I supposed to do to leash him? Yell at him in all caps that if he shoots outside the acceptable targets 'cause he already knows that's how I feel. I've been giving my reads all day and deadline is a week away and there's no point in finalizing my pool this far away. Why are you so curious to see who I want vigged?

Nero is the one advocating a "leashing" strategy. I think it's a terrible practice, so why should I be telling him what he's supposed to do to leash ThAd? I've already pointed out how this play makes perfect sense for Nero-scum and I still fail to see how it makes any sense for Nero-town. He's pleading that he couldn't have done any more to leash him, but if you can't do more than nothing, it's really not much a strategy, now is it?

-------------

The only argument I've seen in Nero's defense is that his play here reminds people of other town games of his. I find this to be a very unreliable use of meta, because it assumes that Nero-scum is incapable of emulating his town play. I think the manner and style of his defense here is par for the course for anyone who's invested in the game regardless of alignment, though it's worth pointing out that at various points in the game and until recently, Nero gave the impression that he wasn't terribly invested in the game. The

content

of his defense on the other hand is terrible.

Thoughts on other players coming up in a separate post.

[Cephrir]

*swish* CTD wins! More Nero votes or an en-masse switch back to Seanald, please. They're both scum.

[Kublai Khan]

Vote: Nero Cain

[AngryPidgeon]

You all really like to post until I need this bump >.>