Mini 1451: A Memory of Light (Game Over)

[GoodCop_BadCop]

Wait. No. I thought you said is demon scum. Derp.

My vote is my answer though.

[Selkies]

Yes?

Who do you think is scum?

[Selkies]

lol no preview on that because new page.

[Nero Cain]

yes, Nero still needs to claim.

I am Gawyn Trakand and am a bodyguard.

Now I realize that this is similar to Mara and I thought about CCing here. (Two protective roles in a mini?) but I didn't really want to play out guess the mod 'cause that usually ends badly. But it looks like Mara is scum anyways and so in hindsight, I should have claimed earlier.

I protected Mara n1 and SOO n2

Also, if someone could be a dear and put all the claims in a single post for me. I'll likely give you some town cred.

[Ms Marangal]

Wat?

you were town-reading me because of my awkward claim...

I don't think I buy two protective roles existing in a Mini Nero, it doesn't make sense at all to me. Why would the mod put a body-guard and a Doc in the same game?

Why havn't you commented on Demon?

[Cephrir]

There was an error in a role PM, real or otherwise, received by Demon. The error is being corrected.

[Nero Cain]

Wat?

you were town-reading me because of my awkward claim...

I don't think I buy two protective roles existing in a Mini Nero, it doesn't make sense at all to me. Why would the mod put a body-guard and a Doc in the same game?

Why havn't you commented on Demon?

So you are claimed scum. awesome.

I just got out of a mini (or maybe it was a micro? It was 9 players) with two town cops. I don't think playing outguessing the mod is a good idea.

Your awkward claim did play a part in my town read of you but I also know that you try and emulate your town play as scum (or so I read once)

If you honestly think that I, as scum, would fake claim a 2nd protective role when I knew the whole "2 protective roles in a mini?!?" discussion would arise then you are a

moron

scum.

Demon could be scum I guess but for some reason he's not high on my lynch list. But today we're either lynching you or Selk. That's what needs to happen today.

vote:Mara

[Selkies]

I am fine with either demon/mara going today

they are the two scum

one of iece or gcbc is the last one

nero you should've counterclaimed.

nero i am very concerned about you being retarded and lynching us later so you need to talk to me about that. why are we scum?

[Belisarius]

I'm pretty sure about Demon and GCBC being scum together, with Mara as the most likely third. I'm not interested in lynching Selkies or Iece.

However, we are in mylo, so I think we need to at least talk about no lynching. Conventional wisdom indicates it's the correct move in this case.

I have to wonder if it's really going to help though -- Nobody seems particularly interested in lynching SoO, Nero or I, so the scum could safely NK any of us without affecting the next town-directed lynch.

Counterarguments?

[Selkies]

TBH I don't think no-lynch will make for better info/better lynch tomorrow in terms of the NK. What night 3 will bring is more data from the claimed night actions.

[Ms Marangal]

Wat?

you were town-reading me because of my awkward claim...

I don't think I buy two protective roles existing in a Mini Nero, it doesn't make sense at all to me. Why would the mod put a body-guard and a Doc in the same game?

Why havn't you commented on Demon?

So you are claimed scum. awesome.

no, you were town-reading me due to my awkward claim, despite it being similar to yours. I find that odd

I just got out of a mini (or maybe it was a micro? It was 9 players) with two town cops. I don't think playing outguessing the mod is a good idea.

Ok, this could explain why you didn't counter claim

Your awkward claim did play a part in my town read of you but I also know that you try and emulate your town play as scum (or so I read once)

but knowing this you still didn't push me for scum?

If you honestly think that I, as scum, would fake claim a 2nd protective role when I knew the whole "2 protective roles in a mini?!?" discussion would arise then you are a

moron

scum.

Possibly, to create more confusion in this mylo stage and to maybe get more heat going behind my own wagon.

Demon could be scum I guess but for some reason he's not high on my lynch list. But today we're either lynching you or Selk. That's what needs to happen today.

Demons been sitting at L-2 for a very, very long time. If he's town, why hasn't he been quick-lynched Nero? you didn't answer that question earlier.

[Selkies]

I'm pretty sure about Demon and GCBC being scum together, with Mara as the most likely third. I'm not interested in lynching Selkies or Iece.

However, we are in mylo, so I think we need to at least talk about no lynching. Conventional wisdom indicates it's the correct move in this case.

I have to wonder if it's really going to help though -- Nobody seems particularly interested in lynching SoO, Nero or I, so the scum could safely NK any of us without affecting the next town-directed lynch.

Counterarguments?

Re Demon and GCBC being scum together, I can see a case for that, but it involves some serious entanglements on their part. So, MYLO...entanglements be damned, just make that lynch happen. But, it's a pseudo MYLO because protective roles and dreamwalking, though that would have been unknown at the point that a hypothetical scum-GCBC was setting up a case for my lynch. If Mara is scum, then the scum team probably thought that a counterclaim was off the table by day 3.

Also, I kinda think that this slot is not the best target for a mislynch set-up. Neither of us are all that easy to mislynch when we get our dander up. But, I'm not sure who would have been a better choice. Kinda depends on who of the lynch-possibles isn't scum. It could be that we looked VT, though. Prior to today, I was working pretty hard at looking ignorant of the specific mechanics behind dreamwalking and channeling.

Re two protective roles, Selkies played in a micro game (the much loved borkgame) that had a doctor and a one-shot bullet-proof. We were the third PR, an innocent child. The set up turned out to be insanely townsided and we were basically in an autowin situation after day 3. The set up was meant to stir town paranoia, I think. But, it didn't work out that way.

So, I'm not totally discounting the possibility of two protective roles.

Orcinus, on the other hand, is going with scum-Mara.

BTW I think that dreamwalking is a terrible idea for all of town now that we've role-claimed, unless I misunderstood Mara's story about the dreamwalker QT.

[Belisarius]

I think that dreamwalking is a terrible idea for all of town

Seconded -- Even if we hit scum today, if there are 2 kills tonight we're in deep shit, and the only time there were 2 kills was when people dreamwalked. I'm still thinking the second kill can only take place in

tel'aran'rhiod

based on this.

[Iecerint]

@Selkies - I think that Demon is town IFF he took the action he has claimed. This is because scum blocking GCBC last night doesn't really make much sense with a claimed doc and a claimed cop AFAICT.

I hate his claim, though. Really scummy circumstances. I could see a Demon/GCBC/Nero team based on today's events (i.e., Demon claimed after everyone but Nero, Nero already has connections to GCBC, GCBC originated the "null result" claim). But IIRC GCBC pushed Demon yesterday in the 3-way vote, so I need to think more about this.

I've played with Nero lots and don't get the same "this is townNero" from his play that you seem to have gotten, but you seem pretty set on it.

[Belisarius]

I've played with Nero lots and don't get the same "this is townNero" from his play that you seem to have gotten, but you seem pretty set on it.

It's not just Selkies; for my own part, I will roast in Hell before I vote Nero today.

I'm torn between Demon and Mara. I'd prefer Demon over GCBC; either's scumflip would be damning to the other, and looking at the game as a whole, GCBC's play has been the more pro-town of the two, so I'm prepared to wait for a flip to re-evaluate GCBC.

[Demon]

Demons been sitting at L-2 for a very, very long time. If he's town, why hasn't he been quick-lynched Nero? you didn't answer that question earlier.

Because theres scum on my wagon?

[Demon]

BTW: my lightning rod is a select ability for 3 targets.

[Demon]

My N1 action was to dreamwalk and before i stopped caring about the game I thought scum sent someone to dreamwalk that night to keep track of who has/doesn't have dreamwalk anymore. I mean it was pretty damn easy to figure out who was with me in that place. Mara contributed jackshit and seemed pretty content to flat out stop talking and let the power go to waste so that's knid of convenient.

[Demon]

they are the two scum

????

[Selkies]

@Selkies - I think that Demon is town IFF he took the action he has claimed. This is because scum blocking GCBC last night doesn't really make much sense with a claimed doc and a claimed cop AFAICT.

I hate his claim, though. Really scummy circumstances. I could see a Demon/GCBC/Nero team based on today's events (i.e., Demon claimed after everyone but Nero, Nero already has connections to GCBC, GCBC originated the "null result" claim). But IIRC GCBC pushed Demon yesterday in the 3-way vote, so I need to think more about this.

I've played with Nero lots and don't get the same "this is townNero" from his play that you seem to have gotten, but you seem pretty set on it.

I haven't played with Nero lots. I have one completed game where I misread the Nero/Mara hydra as scum the one day I was in the game, and then continued to misread them all the way up to their cardflip. But, I saw a ton of similarities between that game and day 1 of this one. Since then, not as much, but this game has way more moving parts than that one did, and he wasn't a PR in the other game.

I develop and go with baselines on very little experiential meta, though, which has its dangers, but I try not to be dogmatic about it and ignore contradicting evidence. A strong case for scum-Nero would sway me at least a little.

[Demon]

If I'm not fucking obvtown because of my claim (HINT: I AM BECAUSE I HAVENT GIVEN A SHIT ABOUT THIS IN A LONG TIME AND THINKING OF A CLAIM THIS ELABORATE WOULDNT BE ON MY FUCKING LIST OF THINGS TO DO) then town needs to reevaluate how incongruous itd be for me to pull this out.

[Selkies]

they are the two scum

????

That was orcinus. We're not completely eye-to-eye on Mara.

Your play today puts me in the "demon is scum" camp, but I'm still questioning and weighing.

What did you guys talk about on the dreamwalk QT?

[Selkies]

If I'm not fucking obvtown because of my claim (HINT: I AM BECAUSE I HAVENT GIVEN A SHIT ABOUT THIS IN A LONG TIME AND THINKING OF A CLAIM THIS ELABORATE WOULDNT BE ON MY FUCKING LIST OF THINGS TO DO) then town needs to reevaluate how incongruous itd be for me to pull this out.

Waiting until everyone else but Nero had claimed and GCBC had talked me out of all the info I was willing to give up about the redirect prior to your claiming doesn't inspire confidence.

[Demon]

One thing I'd never do as scum is let my scum buddies or other people help me out on a fucking claim. It's a pride thing.

Anyway Cephrir pointed out an error in my ability so here it is, Warp Reality isn't a OP one.

[Selkies]

I'm not saying they helped you write it. I'm saying you waited until the available information about what your claim had to account for was as complete as it was going to get.