NY 165: A Large Normal (Game Over!)

[BulbaFenix]

Hey PROHAWK, what did you find within those games that I submitted to you?

-Fenix

[Calcifer]

????????

I can't explain things so well at the moment as you can probably guess.
But the basis of me being uncomfortable with you was your scumread on Serene and the manner you tunneled on them. It sucked a lot and I didn't like it because you were caught up in your stupid bullshit tunneling that didn't really make any sense anymore. I like your attack on me a lot more.

[Shadi1337]

It's funny to see how Cep is pages behin', I'm more interested in his thoughts when he's updated.

[Calcifer]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Vote: Cephrir

[Cephrir]

Lold @ ur read on me Bulba sounds confused. Made my day.
p-edit:

Imo I didn't really sheep, sheeping is not necessarily bad either if the opinion is right I brought a little new info. As for Dramonic, it's difficult adding anything to that read for dead obvious reasons. He's being anti-town but so anti-town that he could just be town. Anyway, as I think I might have asked for once or twice (derp page lost some info) what difference would you like within my reads? I'd like a new method as this one was extremely time-consuming, anyway.

"I didn't really sheep, but I absolutely sheeped." You added nothing new.

Missing some posts: from what I can remember I'll summarize.

I said Shadi's large reads post felt forced and that it felt like he had to make up for not posting any reads earlier.

Shadi admitted that he did want to make up for not sharing earlier but that he wasn't going to do such large posts again because they are too time-consuming.

That's all I remember. Correct me if I'm wrong, Shadi.

I remember asking Shadi why he doesn't just post his reads when they come up instead of putting so much work into that one post. I cannot remember what the answer was, if there was an answer at all.

Rift Adrift and Crab make some good points on Shadi's gameplay. I'm not convinced he's town yet, but I think there are better options for now.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dramonic

Back to the dead weight.

@Calcifer: The difference between those games isn't my alignment, it's my replacement-ness. This is just how I replace in.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

????????

I can't explain things so well at the moment as you can probably guess.
But the basis of me being uncomfortable with you was your scumread on Serene and the manner you tunneled on them. It sucked a lot and I didn't like it because you were caught up in your stupid bullshit tunneling that didn't really make any sense anymore. I like your attack on me a lot more.

oh, good

glad to know that because i made an attack that you liked, that things that you found scummy are wiped from the board

do you usually do this?

i think not

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... &start=200
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Vote: Cephrir

what the

[Calcifer]

@Calcifer: The difference between those games isn't my alignment, it's my replacement-ness. This is just how I replace in.

No, the difference between those games is your tone. You are more uncomfortable as town, which leads to your more rambly posts. As scum, you sound more decisive and you throw your weight around more.

oh, good

glad to know that because i made an attack that you liked, that things that you found scummy are wiped from the board

do you usually do this?

i think not

If I found things that were significantly scummy against you, you would've heard a lot more about them by now.

[Cephrir]

. Still pushing that Gambler's Fallacy, eh? Cute.

It's not a Gambler's Fallacy.

Mac said he was tired of rolling scum IN A GAME WHERE HE REPLACED OUT AS SCUM.

Therefore, his replacing out of THIS game while he continues to join OTHER games is absolutely significant.

I was not aware of this element. Interesting.

FUCK

YOU


that's my excuse, you cheeky scum fuck

I only have to explain two fucking things to you: JACK AND SHIT

I'll make this as clear as I can: I AM NOT READING ONE GOD DAMN THING YOU TELL ME TO UNTIL I AM FUCKING GOOD AND READY


really sorry heads #1 and #3, I REALLY FUCKING TRIED to keep things civil, but LOOK AT THIS ABJECT FUCKING BULLSHIT

and while I'm at it, FUCK YOU TOO NERO, YOU SHIT TALKING LITTLE NANCY

Well. Um. Okay.

[Cephrir]

@Calcifer: The difference between those games isn't my alignment, it's my replacement-ness. This is just how I replace in.

No, the difference between those games is your tone. You are more uncomfortable as town, which leads to your more rambly posts. As scum, you sound more decisive and you throw your weight around more.

Give me time. I think it's a product of reading everything in hindsight rather than as it happens.

[orcinus_theoriginal]

No, the difference between those games is your tone. You are more uncomfortable as town, which leads to your more rambly posts. As scum, you sound more decisive and you throw your weight around more.

STOP.

WHY ARE YOU BRINGING THIS UP NOW

INSTEAD OF LATER

CHRIST

[Cephrir]

Agree with Orc on Shadi's 797. It's the sort of work scum could easily fake because it's fairly surface-level analysis of specific people he's been asked to ISO. He spends a lot of time describing what happens in every single post and then provides fairly cursory analysis.

Like ffery and Crabd's meta argument though.

Bulba can join the town pile for now for 832. His reads seem genuine, like they come from reading the thread instead of just sheeping consensus.

Don't like what Serene is doing. Hyper disruptive and not scumhunting effectively.

Also, this sounds eerily like you know what BRO would flip... why is that? Your rationale of why he is town consists of: He is doing genuine scum-hunting and the things he has done aren't scummy (In your opinion). Because scum would never genuinely hunt-scum. Amirite? Scum could never not do something scummy.

So how do you decide who is town and who is scum then, if not looking for who is scumhunting and who is being scummy?

Okay Serene you can be scum too. Also:

FUCK YOU TOO NERO, YOU SHIT TALKING LITTLE NANCY

Mod: Can we get a warning on this?

autism alert.

Mod: This too

SHUT YOUR FUCKING WHORE MOUTH

Mod: This too

Also wow this is such fake rage holy shit. I CAN GET LOUD TOO WHAT THE FUCK???

Skipping the rage walls with no substance, but uh... No. I'm not playing "Hydra Whack-a-mole", I'm playing "find scum and lynch them".

Are the rage-walls relevant to your read on Serene?

VOTE: Serene

Hm. This is actually better.

Because as part of a closed scum hydra, id have no need to pretend i havent read the game. i could just as easily sheep my heads. or not post at all, letting the others do the work. it wouldnt matter what my reads were since no one was asking for them when the other heads were posting. id just keep my mouth shut.

shadi is pretty blatantly an easy mislynch. i read goonies mafia and if i were scum here, id drive him into the ground. and this town would be all about lynching him.

Crap logic is crap.

I'm gonna be honest, I can't be bothered to read what I missed. I started to but the letters were all just blurring together.

Baby spice is shooting up my scum list. She's had three votes down, one each for stevie and shadi, and now stubbs. The stubbs vote is wasted at this point, but the other two were on people under pressure. Meanwhile she has 12 posts and is dodging scrutiny herself.

BRO, doc, baby spice and zdenek, these are my top scum reads right now. But I've read very little since page 30, I'll read what I missed when I can motivate myself.

Top scum read seems like a bit of a reach. I thought BS was town initially, but I'll give you that she's been a bit scummy of late. I feel lie you had a post between her last post and this one, if I'm right, why bring this up now?

[Cephrir]

Mason claims?

...I'll believe it for now. I assume that there are only 2 masons?

UNVOTE:

Will reread to decide whether to jump onto Shadi, Doc, or Stevie.

This post sucks.

Somehow that's the only thing I felt was worth quoting through page 47.

[Cephrir]

Oh, and I did eventually hit my stride in Amnesiac Mafia. The beginning of a game can set me off balance, and that period extends if the pressure is on me (see: Alpha Centauri Smalltown).

[Shadi1337]

Must be hell catching up this many pages lol

[Cephrir]

Okay, I'm caught up.

Well I've skimmed but I'm hardly up to date. I see we have a mason claim from serene, and dramonic pretty much confirms this next post... this puts serene and dramonic firmly in town camp for obvious reasons. Lot's of noise from #2, I'd reached the point where I wasn't reading his posts but I'm bastard well going to have to ISO him now, and ofc dram, since we can be close to certain of their alignment. If anyone has voted for both serene and dramonic, then we should look at them as potential lynch. The MOD's ISO was inconclusive, I couldn't find anyone at a glance who has voted for both, I'll have a better look later.

Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid

I am curious to know if there's any more masons. But from a tactical point of view, I'd rather not know today, because keeping scum in the dark in that respect is better than feeding my curiosity.

If scum do not know how many masons there are, they won't fakeclaim mason, so I'm not sure why BRO asking how many masons there are can be considered as a counter to scum fakeclaims. On the contrary, knowing how many there are tells scum if there's anything to gain or not from fakeclaiming mason.

If both masons die tonight (highly unlikely but yeah it's possible), then we deal with anyone who claims to be a 3rd and final mason if and when it happens. We see if it makes sense for them to be a mason with serene and dram. It's not a concern, because it's a remote chance that both masons die tonight, and someone later claims to be a 3rd, with no 4th to confirm. It's much better imo to keep scum guessing. If they don't know how many masons there are, they can't make an optimal decision on who to NK tonight, because they'll be torn between trimming down the mason group, and hunting other PRs.

Yeah I can see more scum motivation than town for asking how many masons there are.

First post from you guys that has unequivocally hit me as town-motivated. Recalibrating.

I don't get it. How so?

Paranoia is setting in I can see.

BUT I THOUGHT I WAS SCUM?

ONLY FUCKING TOWN ARE PARANOID

YOU DISSONANT PIECE OF MAFIA

An okay argument but I don't feel strongly about Bulba overall.

Tell me, what makes us so scummy to you??

Your opportunism in attacking what you viewed as a vulnerable head (an accusation you later went on to attack someone else with after doing this yourself)
Your constant "POST READS NOW READS NOW READS NOW THOSE AREN'T READS READS NOW" while ignoring other players who have done jack and or shit
Your endless "ohhh you just wait till bulba sees this" fuck you and your bulba
Accusing people of posting fluff while again ignoring people who do the same
Your attempt to use the meta of a player who ISN'T EVEN IN THE FUCKING GAME to justify your anything ("I've seen kuribo as town and" no fuck you)

and thats just off the top of my head really

when you get to hell, tell them you're not quite fucking sure if kuribo sent you[/quote]
I don't recall all of these things occurring

Hello I just read all 20 pages fully on my phone, I have a pretty good idea who is scum and town reads now.

Would you like to share with the class?

Maybe across scum teams. They probably aren't all buddies.

TMT is trying to get calcifer to do his dirty work and defend his buddy.

If this game turns out to be multiscum, we're speed-lynching Zdenek.

No, we're not.

[Cephrir]

Ankamius: Slightly scummy early then fell off the face of the earth. Null.
Baby Spice: Null, needs to exist more but I expect that probably won't happen. Keeping an eye out for opportunism from this corner.
Brian Hollywood: Who?
Broseidon: Scummy, I've discussed this.
Calcifer: Haven't convinced me they're town, and I feel like they should have. A little scummy these last few pages.
DOMO: I've probably flip-flopped here more than anywhere else. I'll go with null for the time being, it's like he alternates alignments every post or something.
Masons: are probably masons.
KingCrabd: Got townvibes here early, haven't posted much recently.
BulbaFenix: I don't know that I really see this case, but I haven't loved them. Not too likely to join this wagon.
Metal Sonic: Likely town, but I wish he'd start playing.
Nero: Permanently null, may need to die eventually.
orcinus: My best townread by a mile.
ProHawk: Forgettable. Lean town, I guess.
Rift: Nulltown, haven't pinged me at all or wowed me like ffery did in Amnesiac.
Shadi: Scummy. Not sure where this wagon went.
Stevie: Lean town, seems like an easy wagon, don't care for those pushing it (as a result, not saying I townread Stevie *because* of that)
Stubbs: Nullscum, probably bussing Shadi.
TSO: Scum.
Goat: Who?
TIP: Nulltown, no reason to think otherwise really.
Letters: Scum.
Zdenek: Town.

I'm disturbed by my lack of townreads. This game is strange.

[Shadi1337]

Other than me who are your scum reads now, Ceph?

p-edit: nvm, you just posted lol.

[Rift Adrift]

Rift: Nulltown, haven't pinged me at all or wowed me like ffery did in Amnesiac.

I wowed you in amnesiac? I was only around for a day. IIRC I wound up with 5 or 6 votes on me at one point, including yours.

[Calcifer]

Maybe I've got confirmation bias 'cause Nacho was voting Cephrir's slot on the page I started reading, but I really haven't been liking Cephrir's catchup posts. They seem to be attacking pretty much every single player Nacho has a townread on.

[Cephrir]

First things first. It seems I need to explain my vote, which I left unexplained on purpose to get a reaction (I also didn't reliaze I wouldn't be around to explain it in a timely fashion). When I initially read this post, I saw trying WAY too hard all over it. The bolded in particular...implying pops was scum because of not getting a joke is ridiculous. That said, my views on fferyllt have evolved. I'll just type out the notes I made as I went through the thread, apologies for not linking everything. Anything in square brackets is a note I added just now, having read the entire thread.

fferyl- according to herself, has a very analytical playstyle. This jives with what I am seeing thus far, although 110 is a very kneejerk reaction [and she continues to have these, but she also looks very deeply into players' behavior in a manner I find to be protown, so her self analysis is pretty much correct]

Svens 107 reads as town albeit not very good town [as do pretty much all his posts]

hohum [this was from his first few posts] is town or deliberately playing the hyperaggressive asshole town card, which is my go-to scum strategy, although this is a bit more extreme. IGMEOY. [moving the following up for relevance:] elvis 129 (hohum meta) removes the possibility that this is a tell either way.

Loran 121 makes no sense.

Serra 123: scummy.

Loran 155: scummy.

NS' continued needless question dodging strikes me as town. I feel like scum would have straightforwardly answered the question to get people off his back rather than play Socrates.

fferyl 193 is very gung-ho about lynching (though I may be biased, as one of her targets), which seems town to me[, though this may be more related to the fast-paced games she is apparently used to].

ProsecutorGodot is town.

fferyl 220 is a flip on me [IIRC]- sounded like she had a town read on me before chesskid brought me up, but now she seems to think she had a scumread before. [In hindsight I may have misread an earlier post]

Loran 241: sounds like someone in the scum mindset. And for someone who 'makes it a priority to look townie' when playing town, you sure aren't doing it yet.

Sirdani 281- you just referred to this post as a case on fferyl. It is not.

Nacho 299- terrible post. That did not merit a vote, even though I don't care for serrapaladin.

chesskid's style is antitown, though I don't know that that's meaningful.

So that was pretty much a bunch of useless rambling. The following are my overall thoughts in a conveniently formatted list. Much of this is not backed up by anything I just said or indeed anything at all except my general vibes.

TOWN (STRONGEST TO WEAKEST READ, ITALICIZED ARE VIRTUALLY CERTAIN IN MY BOOK)

Svenskt
fferyllt

Elvis
ProsecutorGodot
Human Destroyer
Nobody Special
Popsofctown

WHO? (POST MOAR [/HYPOCRITE])
Riggs, Nacho, Sirdani, GuyInFreezer, Hohum, Vifam

SCUM (STRONGEST TO WEAKEST READ)
Loranth
serra
chesskid

UNVOTE:

None of my scumreads are actually terribly strong, but I think it's protown to be voting your best suspect if you feel like you have any clue at all.

VOTE: Loranthaceae

I then proceeded to call you obvtown for the rest of the day

[Rift Adrift]

I'm disturbed by my lack of townreads. This game is strange.

Given the number of townreads I've managed, your lack disturbs me.

A lack of town reads is convenient for scum.

[Cephrir]

Well, I *have* some, but some of them aren't very strong.

There are also a lot of lurkers in this game.

[Rift Adrift]

I then proceeded to call you obvtown for the rest of the day

Your read-flip on me kept me suspcious of you for the rest of that game day. My only real regret about that game is that I didn't try a hell of a lot harder to get serra lynched.

[Rift Adrift]

Well, I *have* some, but some of them aren't very strong.

There are also a lot of lurkers in this game.

True re the lurkers. Some of the players that came off most scummy early on have disappeared. That includes your predecessor.

[Calcifer]

Ankamius: Slightly scummy early then fell off the face of the earth. Null.
Baby Spice: Null, needs to exist more but I expect that probably won't happen. Keeping an eye out for opportunism from this corner.
Brian Hollywood: Who?
Broseidon: Scummy, I've discussed this.
Calcifer: Haven't convinced me they're town, and I feel like they should have. A little scummy these last few pages.
DOMO: I've probably flip-flopped here more than anywhere else. I'll go with null for the time being, it's like he alternates alignments every post or something.
Masons: are probably masons.
KingCrabd: Got townvibes here early, haven't posted much recently.
BulbaFenix: I don't know that I really see this case, but I haven't loved them. Not too likely to join this wagon.
Metal Sonic: Likely town, but I wish he'd start playing.
Nero: Permanently null, may need to die eventually.
orcinus: My best townread by a mile.
ProHawk: Forgettable. Lean town, I guess.
Rift: Nulltown, haven't pinged me at all or wowed me like ffery did in Amnesiac.
Shadi: Scummy. Not sure where this wagon went.
Stevie: Lean town, seems like an easy wagon, don't care for those pushing it (as a result, not saying I townread Stevie *because* of that)
Stubbs: Nullscum, probably bussing Shadi.
TSO: Scum.
Goat: Who?
TIP: Nulltown, no reason to think otherwise really.
Letters: Scum.
Zdenek: Town.

I'm disturbed by my lack of townreads. This game is strange.

Oh god.

This post is scummy-as-hell. Like, seriously. Full agreement with Nacho now. Highlights?
-Lack of townreads is a typical problem a scum player often is faced with.
-The highly wishy-washy nature of the reads fits the scum profile perfectly.
*Related, Almost every single read on the list is left ambiguous.
-A feeling of needing to justify things which a town player wouldn't be likely to justify; essentially, overexplaining stances.
-In particular, the BulbaFenix stance reeks; he hasn't liked them, but he's not likely to join the wagon.

As just a few reasons off the top of my head.