Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!


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Post Post #275 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:37 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 94, Amrun wrote:The suggestion itself is 100% pro-town. This set-up isn't a mystery so if the plan is adopted, it will be a good plan regardless of the alignment of the originator.

Sure, suggesting it doesn't make me town, since scum also want to appear town. It also doesn't make me scum, either. In fact, traditionally, such suggestions are made far more often by town -- BUT it's still null because the scum motivation for doing it is so cut and dry. So the fact that I suggested a plan should not be treated as a tell in either direction (in my opinion, at least). Analyzing the manner in which I did it is another matter entirely.
I think the above summarizes the first four pages well. Moving on.
And as I said, some people are rude regardless, but it's a perfectly valid reason to not be interested in pursuing you at the moment. That conviction is only strengthened by you arguing with the basis of my townread on you.
I disagree with the reasons for this read. Questioning why people have you as a townread is common practice enough in order to allow scum to adopt it as well.

By the way: where was Wisdom rude?

I also question this early townread of him. Sounds to me like you just want him out of your hairs so you give a soothing townread to try and make him back off. What's wrong with just sticking to the arguments that are to be found in the first quote-snippet of post 94? Why do you feel the need to add a townread of Wisdom this early?
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Post Post #276 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:38 am

Post by Amrun »

In post 257, Majiffy wrote:
In post 254, Amrun wrote:Talk about the plan, Majiffy. What is your alternative? Do you have any improvements?
Shoot from the hip, remove as many possibilities for scum to just "slide in" to popular lynches. Force the issue, make them think on their feet. This is a game of reactions.
In post 255, pirate mollie wrote:I don't see her blending in at all. she isn't taking easily defensible stances I don't think. what do you mean?
She looks like she's
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Awful idea. Terrible. I've already explained why.
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Post Post #277 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:47 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 96, Wisdom wrote:Yeah, I don't agree. That suggestion sounds to me like directing a vengekill, basically allowing scum to direct the challenges and therefore the lynches whatever way they want.

This is a strange turn. First you went from a story where you said Amrun was going for towncred by proposing a town-minded suggestion, but now you state this suggestion is not town-minded at all? Or do I misinterpret this?

But if I understand it correctly, I don't agree with this. Why would it be scum directing the challenges in case we follow Amrun's suggestion? They are in the minority, so they have less ability to influence the challenge process if it happens democratically, or at least not moreso than in games with normal lynch-processes.

What is the alternative? Someone is convinced they have a strong case and challenge the other team? The plus side of this is that the challenger knows his own allignment and doesn't allow interference of others when it comes to narrowing down the lynch-pool, but I don't see the problem in looking for support for this case in the form of pseudo-voting. The case falling apart after the challenge has been made would be bad for everyone.

Forcing two teams with scum-suspects to challenge each other looks like the most productive and transparent way to go.
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Post Post #278 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:50 am

Post by Amrun »

Grim groove, now he likes the plan once I explained it more thoroughly.
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Post Post #279 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:54 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 122, AngryPidgeon wrote: Town typically doesn't argue bullshit with someone they think is town.
Why wouldn't they? I do it all the time, arguing bullshit sometimes allows you to get the feel of a person, emotions they go through and possibly underlying motivations.
I actually find myself ending up in quite a few bullshit-arguments without really wanting to, but seriously, it happens all the time, for town and scum alike. I'm sure you know that.
Scummy argument to make.
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Post Post #280 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:56 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 278, Amrun wrote:Grim groove, now he likes the plan once I explained it more thoroughly.
Well, that makes my explanation redundant, but not the questions laid before him.
Also, check 275, could you answer the question about your townread on him and your desire to share that so early in the game?
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Post Post #281 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:58 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 277, Grimgroove wrote:This is a strange turn. First you went from a story where you said Amrun was going for towncred by proposing a town-minded suggestion, but now you state this suggestion is not town-minded at all? Or do I misinterpret this?
My point was the the suggestion maybe appeared pro-town to most, but it wasn't necessarily so.
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Post Post #282 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:04 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 125, Wisdom wrote:mollie Im starting to scumread you, stop fluffing
I thought the exact same thing when moving to the next page.
Up to and including page 6 pirate mollie is giving me the strongest scumvibes, lack of involvement with the game at hand. The back-and-forth with Wisdom following this comment is not reassuring at all. What is so important about having a talk with Majify first? What is trolleytracking anyway?

Liking Venmar's entrance on page 6.
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Post Post #283 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:05 am

Post by Wisdom »

In post 282, Grimgroove wrote:What is trolleytracking anyway?
Tunneling, that's how she calls it
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Post Post #284 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:06 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 281, Wisdom wrote:
In post 277, Grimgroove wrote:This is a strange turn. First you went from a story where you said Amrun was going for towncred by proposing a town-minded suggestion, but now you state this suggestion is not town-minded at all? Or do I misinterpret this?
My point was the the suggestion maybe appeared pro-town to most, but it wasn't necessarily so.
I saw you hand out FoS's early on in the game, even before agreeing with this plan. What was the point of those and how are they different from putting bolded votes in this setup?

*Disclaimer: apologies if I repeat things that already have been said/asked, feel free to refer me to earlier posts in case I do. Reached page 7 now.
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Post Post #285 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:09 am

Post by Wisdom »

Yeah as you'll read later we decided to do it via bolding Nominate: (name).
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Post Post #286 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:11 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 146, Venmar wrote: I'm willing to start challenging people.
Was this serious? Half of the people hadn't even properly participated in the game and you'd already hand out a challenge?

When I said I liked your entrance I was referring to your criticism on Angry Pidgeon's case, but your scumread on Wisdom does not have enough argumentational backing to proclaim such an intent. Who would you have challenged and why?
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Post Post #287 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:12 am

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In post 285, Wisdom wrote:Yeah as you'll read later we decided to do it via bolding Nominate: (name).
That wasn't the question. At a time where you disagreed with the suggestion (you said it would allow scum to direct the game), you in essence followed the same procedure as the one you disagreed with. How do you feel the FoS's you handed out were different? And if they weren't, why were you disagreeing with a plan that you were following yourself?
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Post Post #288 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:15 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 149, AngryPidgeon wrote:
P-P-edit:
She really did call herself likely town for the plan
and then defend the plan by pointing to "experience". That is not town motivated.
Part in bold: Not true.
The rest: Don't agree.
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Post Post #289 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:16 am

Post by Wisdom »

I disagreed with following an organized plan. I don't like organized plans, I feel that scum will exploit them. I didn't disagree with giving our scumreads. If we don't do that, then how will we lynch anyone?

I'm now okay with the plan because I accept that scum can exploit the lack of a plan as much as the presence of it, so it makes no difference.
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Post Post #290 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:25 am

Post by Amrun »

I often share early townreads. It is part of my process of scumhunting. You can view it as an attempt to placate him of you want, but it didn't cross my mind. I suppose for that I'd have had to feel threatened, which I didn't. Either way, I would have rather read him as scum because he was annoying me so spearheading a wagon on him would have been fun. >.>
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Post Post #291 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:41 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 175, Wisdom wrote:
In post 168, StrangerCoug wrote:No, she did not. She said she was ONE OF the most experienced. She did not claim to be the #1 most experienced, which your dropping "one of" implies. I shouldn't even be arguing semantics with you.
Does it matter if she said the most or one of the most? That's besides the point I was making.

Could you point to where she linked her long experience to being pro-town? It's an argument that obviously doesn't make sense, but I never saw Amrun make it.
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Post Post #292 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:46 am

Post by Wisdom »

Well that's what I understood from her posts; I was feeling she was trying to call me a noob and go "I'm experienced therefore I am right". Now that I'm looking at it maybe I was overreacting.
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Post Post #293 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:48 am

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In post 181, pirate mollie wrote:wis why are you breaking up all of strange's posts and not just putting them in 1? see this is why I want to talk to majiffy cos to me it looks like scum burying posts. he will know what I am talking about
In post 171, Wisdom wrote:
In post 166, Amrun wrote:There are, at most, three scum in this game
Yeah, I stopped reading here.
You're trying to make plans, yet you don't know the number of scum?
It is KNOWN how many scum there are.

I guess this makes you town though, even though I wouldn't put it past you to fake that towntell.
How does this make her town? As you said, both town and scum know there are four Temple Guards?
If anything, I'd regard it as a scumslip. Scum doesn't bother to check the opening post to see how many scum there are. MAybe she just inferred it from the ammount of people present in the scumQT, and if up to that point there were only three there, it could just as easily explain her mistake.
I'm not saying it is a strong scumslip, but it's definitely more of a scumslip than a townslip in my eyes.
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Post Post #294 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:50 am

Post by Wisdom »

lol what are you talking about, they know who their scumbuddies are, it would say so in her role pm. Unless you wanna argue that she doesn't read role pms?
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Post Post #295 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:51 am

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In post 181, pirate mollie wrote:wis why are you breaking up all of strange's posts and not just putting them in 1? see this is why I want to talk to majiffy cos to me it looks like scum burying posts. he will know what I am talking about
What is burying posts and what good does it do scum? Some people hate walls, others hate double-posts, but if someone has a lot to share, they have to choose one of both. Do you feel people who post a lot of information are scummy?
Why are you relying so much on Majify in this game? Why can't you make your own conclusions?
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Post Post #296 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:55 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 1, Haschel Cedricson wrote:
Four players will have this appended to the above role PM:
At least, that is what you are pretending to be. In actuality, you belong to a secret society that has vowed to protect the Hidden Temple at all costs. By disguising yourself as an explorer, your duty is to guard the Hidden Temple and make sure the treasure remains undisturbed. Your fellow guards are NAME1, NAME2, and NAME3, and you may talk to them at any time at QUICKTOPIC LINK.

You win when the number of temple guards is equal to the number of explorers.
Ok, good point.
But.
I know it's a stretch but given there's three capitalized names in the PM I wouldn't put it passed anyone to somehow register this as "there's three scum" in their brain, even as scum reading their PM.
How do you explain the mistake from Amnur from a Town point-of-view? Where would she get the number "3" specifically?
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Post Post #297 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:55 am

Post by Grimgroove »

^ this was in reply to Wisdom's 294.
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Post Post #298 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:56 am

Post by Grimgroove »

In post 183, Elyse wrote:Townread on mollie. I don't really see 181 coming from scum.
Why not?
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Post Post #299 (ISO) » Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:56 am

Post by Wisdom »

There are usually 3 scum in 12p games, that's where.
So without checking how many scum there are, she assumed it's 3.
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