Mini 1468: Legends of the Hidden Temple- Game Over!

[Grimgroove]

If you don't even read, though, then why you expect to be treated seriously is beyond me.

Okay I read it, and I'll admit it looks better the way you put it now.
I guess there aren't many alternatives anyway, and I guess you have a point that if scum are capable enough to exploit the plan, they are capable enough to win without the plan too.

Do you see any holes in the plan?

THERE IS NO PLAN. THIS IS COMMON SENSE. YOU ARE MILKING TOWNCRED FROM NOTHING.

ffs venmar, how is Amrun not suspicious to you.

How can you not see that it is a plan? It's a systematic approach as opposed to a willy-nilly approach. In one, challenging whenever you feel like it is acceptable behavior; in my plan, that is NOT acceptable behavior. It's a significant departure from playing this game straight.

I find it very striking you're not opposing the statement that you were in fact milking for towncred. What you're saying here is that you actually deserve it.

I didn't really like Angry Pidgeon's case up tothis point, but this response was bad in my eyes.

[Grimgroove]

@ everyone

what do you think of your partner

I was in gchat with majiffy for five minutes before I town read him. although it was probably a little ridiculous to partner majiffy and I together

SafetyDance is obvtown.

I noted that Elyse's read (which turned out to be a joke) was questioned by enomis, but not pirate_mollie's read. Why not?

Pirate_mollie: Could you explain how you reached that read? I hereby refer to my earlier question: is there any guideline/theory on how to use these partner QT's optimally?

Finally got through the topic. I've been through different swings actually in my reads, so not sure if I can already specify those.

@Amrun: Is Wisdom still a townread? Is he your only townread?

Will need to IC StrangerCough later, his posts gave me a bad vibe, but something told me it would be time-intensive to point out the why's and whats, so I'll keep that for a bit later when I got more energy for this game again.

[Grimgroove]

@enomis
I don't know what you want me to say. That's why I asked the question. Sorry if it doesn't fit with your scum lean on me or whatever you're conjuring up.

Ok, one last thing: I feel that was a bit uncalled for.
Are you calling enomis scum for grilling you? Why do you think he's conjuring up stuff? He never directly stated a scumlean on you, why do you interpret his questioning as such? Why do you feel so obviously theatened?

[Haschel Cedricson]

No challenge has been issued yet.

The pool of players eligible to be lynched today consists of:

(NONE)

With 12 players alive, it will take 7 votes to lynch.

[Amrun]

If you don't even read, though, then why you expect to be treated seriously is beyond me.

Okay I read it, and I'll admit it looks better the way you put it now.
I guess there aren't many alternatives anyway, and I guess you have a point that if scum are capable enough to exploit the plan, they are capable enough to win without the plan too.

Do you see any holes in the plan?

THERE IS NO PLAN. THIS IS COMMON SENSE. YOU ARE MILKING TOWNCRED FROM NOTHING.

ffs venmar, how is Amrun not suspicious to you.

How can you not see that it is a plan? It's a systematic approach as opposed to a willy-nilly approach. In one, challenging whenever you feel like it is acceptable behavior; in my plan, that is NOT acceptable behavior. It's a significant departure from playing this game straight.

I find it very striking you're not opposing the statement that you were in fact milking for towncred. What you're saying here is that you actually deserve it.

I didn't really like Angry Pidgeon's case up tothis point, but this response was bad in my eyes.

Of course I'm not milking town cred, which I had already addressed ten billion times. Do I have to repeat myself as nauseum? The whole thing is a farce anyway because I've gotten nothing but patently negative attention for proposing a plan, so who am I supposed to be milking towncred from, exactly?

Also, please explain how something can be "a little bit" of a scumslip.

For the record, I assumed three scum because I've never been in a mini with a 4p scumteam to my recollection and I've been in idk how many games, but easily upwards of 100.


Yes, wisdom is still a town read. No, he's not the only one but he's the strongest one. His has been relevant to share so far because I think sharing your conclusions after a spat with someone is helpful, at least most of the time.

[StrangerCoug]

Will need to IC StrangerCough later,

Aww, are the allergies flaring up again?

I'd like to know how my partner is concerned about me when he has the energy to put up a case.

[Elyse]

@enomis
I don't know what you want me to say. That's why I asked the question. Sorry if it doesn't fit with your scum lean on me or whatever you're conjuring up.

Ok, one last thing: I feel that was a bit uncalled for.
Are you calling enomis scum for grilling you? Why do you think he's conjuring up stuff? He never directly stated a scumlean on you, why do you interpret his questioning as such? Why do you feel so obviously theatened?

I don't see how this was uncalled for. I'm not calling enomis scum. I can sense that he has the beginning of a scum lean on me, by saying I am asking useless questions and posting useless comments. This isn't true, however. When I explained why one of my questions wasn't useless, he just said he didn't buy, prompting what I said. I feel like he's a little angry his scum lean isn't panning out. And your last question is a loaded question if I've ever seen one. I don't feel threatened.

Concerning my Mollie townread, I can't really explain why I find that post hard to come from scum. I think it's because she's using her common tells and openly stating that she wants to consult with someone else. I dunno, it just gives me townvibes. I don't think scum would do that.

Also, your "scumslip" on Amrun is ridiculous.

@Majiffy
If you can find someone who mentioned all of the things I mentioned in my post before me, then I'll concede to your point, but it's not true. I did bring up those things first.

[Grimgroove]

Also, your "scumslip" on Amrun is ridiculous.

You're probably right about that, but it can't hurt to try and scrutinize the supposed townslip either.
Do you agree with Wisdom that it is a townslip? What do you make of the mistake?

Amrun, could you provide an explanation for this mistake yourself? Why haven't you earlier?

[Wisdom]

She just did in 304

[Grimgroove]

@Amrun: sorry, I missed the fact you already answered this question on this page.

Will need to IC StrangerCough later,

Aww, are the allergies flaring up again?

I'd like to know how my partner is concerned about me when he has the energy to put up a case.

I meant ISO, sorry.

Not sure if I'll have a case yet, but the bad vibe is definitely there. I'll just try to explain why it's there.

Why do you assume I'll have a case, and that I'm not just talking about gut?

[Amrun]

Elyse, what does being angry a scum lean doesn't pan put say to you?

P-edit:

I seriously want you to explain how something can be "a little bit" of a scumslip.

[Elyse]

Also, your "scumslip" on Amrun is ridiculous.

You're probably right about that, but it can't hurt to try and scrutinize the supposed townslip either.
Do you agree with Wisdom that it is a townslip? What do you make of the mistake?

Amrun, could you provide an explanation for this mistake yourself? Why haven't you earlier?

I don't know what to make of it. Amrun certainly could have planted it, so I'm pretty much disregarding it for now.

P-edit:
It just tells me that enomis thought he could push something against me, but I'm refuting what he's saying. I can't tell if it's a scum or town thing, because he could be frustrated as both alignments.

[Grimgroove]

Of course I'm not milking town cred, which I had already addressed ten billion times. Do I have to repeat myself as nauseum? The whole thing is a farce anyway because I've gotten nothing but patently negative attention for proposing a plan, so who am I supposed to be milking towncred from, exactly?

Just because a plan backfires doesn't mean you can't have had any intentions that were contrary to the result.

Also, please explain how something can be "a little bit" of a scumslip.

I use the term quite loosely. There's gradations when it comes to any kind of slip, and only very few where the conclusion is clear-cut. Usually it's related to certain "mistakes" a player makes, based on prior notions that only scum or town has. In this case, I don't think the mistake was necessarily made by town.

In retrospect: Do you feel your mistake should be considered a townslip? What do you think of people reading you as town because of it?

For the record, I assumed three scum because I've never been in a mini with a 4p scumteam to my recollection and I've been in idk how many games, but easily upwards of 100.

Ok, I was unaware of these traditional ratios, hence the "3" seemed more random than it obviously is.

Yes, wisdom is still a town read. No, he's not the only one but he's the strongest one. His has been relevant to share so far because I think sharing your conclusions after a spat with someone is helpful, at least most of the time.

Could you reiterate why he's your strongest townread?

[Venmar]

I'm willing to start challenging people.

Was this serious? Half of the people hadn't even properly participated in the game and you'd already hand out a challenge?

When I said I liked your entrance I was referring to your criticism on Angry Pidgeon's case, but your scumread on Wisdom does not have enough argumentational backing to proclaim such an intent. Who would you have challenged and why?

AP or Wisdom, because I think they're scum. I don't think I would've actually challenged, but I wanted to entertain the idea and see what others thought. Without votes, people aren't actually pressured to do anything.

I got townreads on Amrun, Majiffy, and Pirate Mollie. I also got a slight town read on Elyse, but I need to reread into that.
- Majiffy baby is there anyway you could put Wisdom in your scumpile instead of the townpile?

[Wisdom]

AP or Wisdom

Umm
You can't challenge your partner, can you?

[Grimgroove]

By challenging any other team, you automatically include your partner in the possible pool of lynches, so in a way you can.

[Wisdom]

Yeah, but you can't directly
Yet he answered the question "who would you challenge" with someone that he cannot challenge directly.
I could even see that as a scumslip, tbh. If both Venmar and AP are scum, then obviously they wouldn't care about being partners since they would already be scumbuddies.
But maybe that's a stretch.

[Grimgroove]

Yes, I'd call that a stretch :p

[Amrun]

Of course plans can have contrary results. That wasn't my point. My point was that I have ready exhaustively explained that I wasn't milking towncred and, in fact, should not be given town cred for it. I already addressed a post to ap about it so objecting to not doing it for like the third time is lala land mudslinging in my eyes.

As for my supposed slip, to be frank, I would probably view it as a town tell if someone else had done it. Not a town SLIP, something that is cut and dry, but something that makes someone marginally more likely to be town. But it's not difficult to manufacture so calling it null is maybe safer. That's the only way it would come from scum (purposefully). Only the dumbest of scum would not know how many partners they had.

I would rather not re- explain my town read on Wisdom because I've already explained it far more than I usually like to explain early town reads. Nothing has changed. The concepts are not difficult. If something in particular confuses you, ask a particular question.

[Grimgroove]

I would rather not re- explain my town read on Wisdom because I've already explained it far more than I usually like to explain early town reads. Nothing has changed. The concepts are not difficult. If something in particular confuses you, ask a particular question.

Does the quote in bold constitue your reasons for Wisdom-town, or are there additional arguments that I missed?
In case this is it, you can find my doubts surrounding this read just under it.

And as I said, some people are rude regardless, but it's a perfectly valid reason to not be interested in pursuing you at the moment. That conviction is only strengthened by you arguing with the basis of my townread on you.

I disagree with the reasons for this read. Questioning why people have you as a townread is common practice enough in order to allow scum to adopt it as well.

Of course plans can have contrary results. That wasn't my point.

I just answered your own question. If my answer was besides the point, you should have asked a different question.

My point was that I have ready exhaustively explained that I wasn't milking towncred and, in fact, should not be given town cred for it. I already addressed a post to ap about it so objecting to not doing it for like the third time is lala land mudslinging in my eyes.

Lala land mudslinging? What is that? Who is doing that?

As for my supposed slip, to be frank, I would probably view it as a town tell if someone else had done it. Not a town SLIP, something that is cut and dry, but something that makes someone marginally more likely to be town. But it's not difficult to manufacture so calling it null is maybe safer. That's the only way it would come from scum (purposefully). Only the dumbest of scum would not know how many partners they had.

Thank you for this clarification, I now understand your confusion about my use of the word "slip". In my eyes, there haven't been any slips in this game so far,a ccording to your definition.

[Amrun]

No, that's not the only reasons for Wisfom town. He attacked a player with an earlier join date etc. with unknown skill (to him) very aggressively in a way that I think is indicative of town. He was also quick to admit he was wrong even when I was still under fire from other parties. I don't particularly care if you agree with my town read, though.

"La la land mudslinging" is my slang for throwing nonsensical shit at someone and hoping it sticks. In this case, I was referring to you, though I also think it's true of AP (and moreso).

[StrangerCoug]

@Amrun: sorry, I missed the fact you already answered this question on this page.

Will need to IC StrangerCough later,

Aww, are the allergies flaring up again?

I'd like to know how my partner is concerned about me when he has the energy to put up a case.

I meant ISO, sorry.

That, too, but the reference was to you adding an H after my name.

Why do you assume I'll have a case, and that I'm not just talking about gut?

his posts gave me a bad vibe, but something told me it would be time-intensive to point out the why's and whats, so I'll keep that for a bit later when I got more energy for this game again.

If it turns out to be just gut, OK, but the phrasing of your post indicates that it "just being gut" is on the unlikely side.

[pirate mollie]

hi groovey kid hi

you have been in this game 5 minutes and you are already getting on my nerves.

I already answered as to why I was waiting for majiffy so I won't be repeating myself.

majiffy and I have played like 30? 40? games together or something and we also have a hydra. when you have that much experience with a player you can usually read them pretty well. he did something in gchat that made me really think that majiffy is town and if anyone goes near him I will crush them.

majiffy and I won't be using a qt, if we talk outside the game thread it will be via gchat and texting but that will be very little. we both prefer in thread interaction.

1 of the ways to maximise your communication with your partner is to engage in convo and get a feel for them. do they seem comfortable? nervous? and discuss the game and mebbe get their take on it.

"burying posts" is a highly effective scum tactic cos it spams up the thread with a bunch of posts that wears down even the most dedicated of readers. uber goober and vifam did this in posh and it worked like a charm. whenever town started to coalesce a bit they both would come in and make like 20 posts each in effect, "burying" relevant content and interrupting the flow of conversation. majiffy doesn't see this as a scum tell but I do cos the frequency, content and pacing is different when it comes from town than when it comes from scum. what wis was doing was breaking up coug's posts into single responses when he could have just made one long one addressing the points in his single post. this will become important later on after a couple of flips in order to discern a trail.

now. your questions come across as being a bit useless cos they are persistent and incessant (not to mention repetitive) and seem less like you are trying to determine anyone's alignment from them and more like you just want to look busy which I see as more scum motivated.

[Wisdom]

Dunno about you, but I prefer reading 5-6 one line posts than reading quote walls.

[pirate mollie]

No, that's not the only reasons for Wisfom town.

He attacked a player with an earlier join date etc. with unknown skill (to him) very aggressively in a way that I think is indicative of town

. He was also quick to admit he was wrong even when I was still under fire from other parties. I don't particularly care if you agree with my town read, though.

"La la land mudslinging" is my slang for throwing nonsensical shit at someone and hoping it sticks. In this case, I was referring to you, though I also think it's true of AP (and moreso).

I think that is a terrible reason to put someone in your town pile fwiw. in my very first scum game on here I subbed in and immediately took on voided and thad. my scummate was at L1 and I tore the wagon apart but attracted voided's suspicions. anyways kuribo subbed in the next day round and I freaked a bit and got uncomfortable cos he was going through his divorce and I felt guilty scumrolling him and it showed and I was lynched.

anyhoo, moral of the story, a skilled experience player is not afraid to take on the heavy hitters in a game and I am telling you that wis skilled and experienced. mebbe not as experienced as you, or some of the other players in this game but he is definitely no dummy.