Newbie 1389 Trouble in River City Game Over Scum win

[fferyllt]

VOTE: jasonwazza

[TheTrollie]

let's vote kues now
VOTE: kues

[Cheery Dog]

let's vote kues now
VOTE: kues

Have you explained this one, or is that that they haven't been here for 12 days?

...hmm I think I might need to prod the mod again.

According to the last votecount I found we have slightly over 3 days remaining. I don't see anything happening here.

[fferyllt]

Happy Scumday, Cheery!

@Mod have prods goine out? If replacements are needed would it be possible to get a deadline extension?

[JasonWazza]

Prods never went out and i fucking completely forgot about this game a lot.

Ummmmmmm i'll re-read and try to prompt some activity.

[JasonWazza]

The fact is this, you having to wait for someone else to vote, to vote me, is scummy and opportunistic as fuck.

No one else has voted you?

*suspecting me, same fucking difference.

Since the crash ive been thinking... Bottom line, if you are town your obsession is a mistake. This is the only part that still gives me pause. If you are scum you are playing a fairly bad game by doing this. Unfortunately, even though this greatly supports an asshole read it is not as supportive of a scum read as I wish it was...

UNVOTE:

Hi appeal to emotion, nice to see you again.

I haven't done anything about your meta this game or even looked at your styles from the two games. (I try not to use meta from hydra posting ever anyway - unless it's for the same hydra, separating who posted what is annoying for meta purposes even when you are signing your posts)

I've been trying to work out if Jason is just being slightly inactive regardless of alignment since seeing him disappear and lose vengeball, but in all the recent completed games I found of his he'd died night 1, which was before the disappearing spree.

It's rare i disappear, it was more out of not wanting to read/not having enough time to read, and i am fixing that at this point and time.

Lol, yes i stuck to an RVS vote cause it landed on a scum but.

I did reply but that crash.

The fact is this, you having to wait for someone else to vote, to vote me, is scummy and opportunistic as fuck.

Jason's last post in this game was on Monday. He has made about 100 posts since then elsewhere on the site, with the majority in other games.

Game states have a lot to do with activity levels when people are playing more than one game, but to me this looks like he's ignoring this game.

And I'll speculate that he's not posting because he's been happy with the current gamestate.

In ISO the posts he's made don't look too bad, aside from his hyperfocus on cAPSLOCK, so I'm not going to quote or link to them.

Leaning scum

When you assume you make an ass out of u

Seriously that's not even what it implys.

Jasonwazza

I'll be honest there is something about this game that just makes it meh to read.

How does this fit in with your activity observation?

IME demotivation and lack of involvement is more often scummy than towny. Jason's early activity level wasn't bad. He raged about getting called out for not making a post overnight, but nearly 5 days without a post is ridiculous. He should have been prodded 2 days ago, but with all the confusion after the site crash, a lot of stuff is slipping through the cracks.

Yeah this is bad, i love being scum, i thrive on it generally, some of my best games are based with me being scum. (vengeball is an odd one of me being scum)

@Rach: You NEED to get your ass in here, this game dieing is partly the players fault, and partly yours, please get in here.

I'm gonna do an ISO in a second and see what i feel about certain people.

UNVOTE: cAPSLOCK

[fferyllt]

When you assume you make an ass out of u

Seriously that's not even what it implys.

Aside from Vengeball, we've never played together before this game. However, I've watched a couple of your newbie games in real time because of other players. I'm remembering a Bork newbie that you replaced into at about the same time as I was playing the other Bork newbie. You were active and aggressive from the mioment you hit the game thread.

UNVOTE: jasonwazza

If you're ready to play, then let's figure this out.

[JasonWazza]

VOTE: sikon327

Things of interest;

Way to fucking apologetic.
Plays the newb card a fair amount.
too much AtE
A lot of sitting the vote in the unvote area.
267 seems like some crap.

[JasonWazza]

Also fferyllt i'm offended, you forgot about me in popcorn Mafia. (mind you were dead for most of it but still )

[fferyllt]

I did forget that game.

(I'd like to keep it that way)

Were we alive at the same time? I can't even remember.

[fferyllt]

jason, to me sikon comes off painfully newbtown.

[JasonWazza]

Not for long that i can remember.

What are your thoughts on my sikon vote?

P-Edit: Why is it newb town over newb scum?

[sikon327]

Well jason, if you don't think that little outburst came from an honest place, that's your prerogative. But I suppose I've had enough time to "cool off" at this point. I'm going to give the whole thread a thorough reread and go from there.

[fferyllt]

Not for long that i can remember.

What are your thoughts on my sikon vote?

P-Edit: Why is it newb town over newb scum?

newbscum don't get butthurt over their cases being ignored.

[RachMarie]

Please welcome Nobody Special he will be my backup mod to help with VCs and Prods.... Rach

[fferyllt]

Welcome NS! And thanks to you both! <3

[RachMarie]

Lynx has been prodded... Rach still a couple of hours for another prod.

[Lynx_Shine]

Ended up having two dentist appointments in short succession instead of one (they couldn't safely do that much work in one visit), so I was gone a little longer than expected. And by that I mean a lot longer, those painkiller shots tear me up. Hopefully this doesn't come out too wall-ish. (On the plus side I'm not going to class today so I should be here most of the day, since I think N1 is coming up?)

I think I like Cheery Dog. Not sure if because he lookes Townish or if I like how he plays or if it's the medicine or if it's just that icon.

I don't have a specific post to call Jason out on, I'm just with the others on active-lurky. He comes in to see if there's still something on cAPS it looks like, then hides again. But I've also forgotten about games where the mod didn't send out frequent prods and the other players weren't active, so I'll leave this at "not worth voting yet" unless it keeps looking convenient.

Sikon's brief rage post seems like the good kind of AtE. More the genuine frustration and regret than scummy things unless he's gonna pull a crouching moron hidden excellent actor and post-copier. Unlikely.

Ok, well ff is town because she is playing very pro town.

Did an expository statement run over your dog as a kid or something Jesus fuck.

Since I have been your tunneling target I waited more than if I had been an observer alone. But as others have also noted your obsessive behavior I was able to discount the weight of my bias.

cAPS and Jason look like they've just been tunneling each other for awhile in their own personal tunnel of love boat ride. I don't like that he votes Jason soon after Cheery Dog posts a short case against him, but even less I like that he unvotes as soon as Jason calls him out on it. I probably would've left this if not for the immediate unvote, it's defensive and the quicker you are to pull a vote, the less weight it looks like you have on a person.

What do you think are the advantages and disadvantages of full, ranked reads lists?

This question still relevant? I generally like reading them, and they're some of my favorite things late game after players are dead and some scum is confirmed through role flips, huge advantage on that since they're harder to leave out scum partners. Disadvantage PR Townies can be just as likely to lie about their reads as scum are, don't want to point out the whole scum team before Night. I don't think refusing to post a full reads list is scummy on its own.

Post 84: Posts her IC "boilerplate" more or less unbidden on page 4. Closest thing to a reason to do it then would be that Kue had just placed a vote on her, citing lack of scumhunting being a strange behaviour for an experienced player (an IC). I'm uneasy drawing reads from the actual content of it (even though it obviously can't be a real boilerplate in her first IC game), but the fact that she didn't post it until someone had accused her of not scumhunting is... let's say odd.

...

fferyllt's play seems to be very... reactionary. Those posts that she has made which contain content that could be considered relevant to the town aim of actually identifying scum, by and large, seem to have responses to things that have been said directly to her or have directly referenced her, not accounting for the occasional clarifying question.

I'd call unfair/out-of-game reasoning on the IC post, which I basically passed off as poor timing or lack of planning on that. But reactionary I like more, pulling those together. It's a good distraction, similar vein of sudden VLA when you're in the spotlight I think.

sikon, to me, finding town is every bit as important as finding scum. When I get a town read, it takes quite a bit to shake it.

I agree that Town reads are just as important. But there's a bigger issue that Scum reads are worth from any player, while Town reads are harder to prove to most people and it's harder to tell how sincere. Town reads are important but worth less unless the player is confirmed Town, partially (I think) because it's easy and safe for Scum who knows allignments to point and say "I think x is Town" early on, and be seen as Town-hunting right out of the gate.

I had a lot of trouble putting those words together, if it doesn't make sense I'll clear it up when the painkillers kick in.

shhh....I'm lurking

Last time I saw someone admit to lurking (ironically or not), he was lynched for insisting that lurking isn't scummy. I've still got my vote on Kue, but even with his inactivity/severe case of buttsore, I think we might get more info out of Trollie than Kue. (Possibly. Some of my suspicions on ffery hang on Kue's allignment and I'm still swinging that way.)

fluff, more fluff, distancing, fluff.
Scum

...
fluffy.
its just my strongest scum read because of all the fluff in these posts

If long posts are scummy then I'm in line for being hung as a witch.

best scum hunting comes from the first few pages

I actually totally disagree with this. The early game is where a bunch of people who probably haven't played together try to get comfortable and almost everybody is guarded, late game is when scum has to keep track of lies and try not to backpedal too obviously.

[Lynx_Shine]

EBWOP dammit I almost posted a "Hi I'm here don't prod me while I read" but I saw there were no big blue mod posts in awhile so it turned into "what are the chances that she'll be back in the time it takes me to post?" Am actually here this time for real.

[Nobody Special]

Vote Count 1.03

Kueshina (2) Lynx_Shine, TheTrollie
fferyllt (2) Kueshina, likeabauss
likeabauss (1) Cheery Dog
sikon327 (1) JasonWazza

Not Voting

cAPSLOCK, sikon327, fferyllt




With 9 it takes 5 to lynch

(expired on 2013-07-03 12:46:15)

There's going to be another extension.

Kueshina has been prodded (and has 48 hours to respond).

[likeabauss]

VOTE: sikon327

Things of interest;

Way to fucking apologetic.
Plays the newb card a fair amount.
too much AtE
A lot of sitting the vote in the unvote area.
267 seems like some crap.

What do you make of my questions for him in post 32, his responses and what ensued there? It turned my read to town... just wondering if my compass is off kilter.

[likeabauss]

Hey Lynx - Your vote is still on Kueshina from way back early on in the day phase. Is that still where it belongs in your opinion?

[fferyllt]

This question still relevant? I generally like reading them, and they're some of my favorite things late game after players are dead and some scum is confirmed through role flips, huge advantage on that since they're harder to leave out scum partners. Disadvantage PR Townies can be just as likely to lie about their reads as scum are, don't want to point out the whole scum team before Night. I don't think refusing to post a full reads list is scummy on its own.

Not really. I just wanted to point up that reads lists basically consolidate a lot of info that scum would otherwise have to dig around for, and it's info that informs the night kill choice. Town players usually go back and look on a one-by-one basis as the cardflips happen, or to check for consistency and trajectory leading to votes/unvotes. Scum need to use the aggregate data to determine their night actions.

I agree that Town reads are just as important. But there's a bigger issue that Scum reads are worth from any player, while Town reads are harder to prove to most people and it's harder to tell how sincere. Town reads are important but worth less unless the player is confirmed Town, partially (I think) because it's easy and safe for Scum who knows allignments to point and say "I think x is Town" early on, and be seen as Town-hunting right out of the gate.

I had a lot of trouble putting those words together, if it doesn't make sense I'll clear it up when the painkillers kick in.

Town reads lead to town cores and ultimately to town consensus and strategy. The danger of town cores is that scum will do their best to join them, and that really screws the consensus and strategy aspect. People who can find town and form a decent core have a big impact on how a game evolves. In one of my first games at ms, a player recommended a core on day 1. He picked up every town power role among his town reads. The town core didn't quite get its act together on day 1, but by day 3 it was basically a juggernaut and had control of the game until it was won.

I actually totally disagree with this. The early game is where a bunch of people who probably haven't played together try to get comfortable and almost everybody is guarded, late game is when scum has to keep track of lies and try not to backpedal too obviously.

I recently played on another site that runs a different style of newbie game. The players there put a tremendous amount of attention on early, and even first posts. One player put it something like this: Town players enter the game with nothing but their questions. Scum players enter the game with their QT discussion. Sometimes it's possible to spot the difference. I've been working on that aspect of my town game since I saw some of those players in action in a newbie game here - looking for the difference and resolutely sorting obvious town from players it will take longer to sort.

[fferyllt]

Not for long that i can remember.

What are your thoughts on my sikon vote?

P-Edit: Why is it newb town over newb scum?

Hey, where'd you go?

[Lynx_Shine]

let's vote kues now

VC brought my attention to this. "Lynx is the only vote on Kue, make it a wagon." Trollie's reasonless posts are tearing me apart, you guys positive this is normal Town behavior? I mean, having the extra Town vote is nice and he's not exactly harmful but damn.

Hey Lynx - Your vote is still on Kueshina from way back early on in the day phase. Is that still where it belongs in your opinion?

I think we'll get the most information from a Kue or ffery lynch, unless we get a much different sub in for him. Right now Kue is safer - ffery teeters enough that I'd rather not lose that much Town-hunting this early if it can be avoided, but I wouldn't object to a lynch if it came to it. We're getting to that point where it'll be short on time soon.

Town reads lead to town cores and ultimately to town consensus and strategy. The danger of town cores is that scum will do their best to join them, and that really screws the consensus and strategy aspect. People who can find town and form a decent core have a big impact on how a game evolves. In one of my first games at ms, a player recommended a core on day 1. He picked up every town power role among his town reads. The town core didn't quite get its act together on day 1, but by day 3 it was basically a juggernaut and had control of the game until it was won.

Town cores scare me quite a bit, mostly from a bad experience. I've seen them in two games so far, one of them the game was canceled early Day 2 from player action. The other, the town block was actually four or so Wolves who recruited a Townie or two and took a near-flawless win. Considering how paranoid everyone can be, it seems risky and takes a lot of widely-accepted pro-Town/Town-hunters. It sounds like a good idea if it's pulled off though.