Newbie 1388 Nexlexia Game Over

[Titus]

@Bacde, Yes, I still think Dr. Pepper is scum along with NS. I keep asking for people to tell me why he's town other than a feared T v T situation. I'm open to the possibility of Dr. Pepper being town, but I'd like to hear a reason why Dr. Pepper is town (beyond activity) from someone other than Dr. Pepper or NS.

@JKM, Burying the hatchet with scum is not a great plan. It's a plan of semi-last resort. In order to consider that plan, you have to essentially believe that a lot of people don't see your suspect as scummy at all. Burying the hatchet also allows the player to see if they or the others were right about the target being town. The burying the hatchet plan cannot be repeated in the same game. Suppose that Adam and Brent are arguing. Adam resigns himself to the fact that the group won't find that Brent's scummy. So he proves Charlie, Deb, Frank and Gina innocent. Since those players are confirmed innocent, Bob must be the scum. If Bob flips town, then Adam loses because Adam himself already confirmed all the other players as town. That's why scum cannot do the plan I'm calling burying the hatchet. I don't really see how "scum pairs" fits in; perhaps I'm being dense.

[JKMatthews]

@Pebro - do you still like your vote on CDB?

@Titus - you're still saying that conversation between people can prove them innocent. Once again, if that were the case, the game of mafia would be boring and pointless. I don't understand what you're not getting here...
And you're getting way too bogged down on this scum pairs thing. I've already said "I was using them as an example of maths", or in other words the

scumpairs themselves are completely irrelevant

. You said this:

Umm JKM, if there's 10 pairs of people playing a game designed for less than 10 we have a problem. So yeah, I don't think you're understanding.

To which I responded there

are in fact more than 10 pairs of players that can currently be made in the game

, and simply said "think about how many scumpairs there are" as a thought experiment rather than bothering to go through the maths. I should've just said 8 choose 2 is greater than 10 and left it at that, and am regretting not doing that because you're focussing way too much on nonsense.

I'm actually starting to think I'm happy with a Titus lynch... Titus seems to be finding things to discuss, but they don't aid scumhunting at all. It's getting pretty close to active lurking at this point...

[Titus]

@JKM, you were concerned with my plan. I've tried to clarify it the best I could. You are not understanding that, or you're pulling a gambit. I am uncertain as to which. If you want to move on, I'm fine because I am used to players not understanding what the hell I am doing. As long as you see that my plan is to prove people as town, to give scum less of an out, then you don't really NEED to understand the details. I'd want you to so that we could work together and eventually trap Dr. Pepper and NS into a corner. It will become obvious that Dr. Pepper and NS are scum because they will have to drop little hints that everyone else is scum like Dr. Pepper did with Bacde and they won't ask questions of people to flesh out thoughts that aren't on their scum target. Basically, Dr. Pepper would be stuck with his "its so obvious" routine.

People are just seeming to vanish from the game when either myself or Dr. Pepper are questioned which I find that really odd. People should be playing regardless of whether or not they are pressured. They should look at the responses of those under pressure to form their own conclusions.

If I really get stuck, I focus on language. Liars tend to give off subtle clues, such as dehumanizing their targets, employing excessive formal language for them, or applying rage or other emotions in situations where it is uncalled for by the logical scenario. I believe these have led me to Dr. Pepper being scum along with NS. If someone can give me reasons why they are town other than fearing a town v town scenario, I'd welcome it. If you think that my methods of looking at language need work, tell me. However, I'm not going to change my vote out of fear or pressure.

[DoctorPepper]

If you think Im scum with NS, why'd you mention CdB as possible scum when Bacde asked about inactives. Especially when NS falls under the inactive category

[DoctorPepper]

Also your last post made absolutely zero sense

[JKMatthews]

OH MY GOD YOU CAN'T CONCLUSIVELY PROVE PEOPLE AS TOWN OTHERWISE THE GAME WOULDN'T BE FUN...

Anyway, I'm probably not going to bother saying much more until everyone starts playing more...

[DoctorPepper]

Yeah, I feel like we have 3 people playing

[Titus]

@JKM, you're right. We cannot prove people as town 100%. However, it can be pretty damn obvious. For instance, you and Bacde are fairly active with no language indicative of deception. So, I can be fairly certain you are town. Both of you set up scenarios to get information. Both of you are willing to take the lead while scumhunting. Dr. Pepper and NS speak in manners that indicate deception to me. Scum eventually will show indications of deception in their speech or they will cease posting altogether.

[ChannelDelibird]

I still really, really suck at this. Can't post right now as :marathonday: but this is priority No.1 tomorrow/late tonight

[Pebro]

@Pebro - do you still like your vote on CDB?

Can't say I mind my vote being on him. CDB's last posts didn't change that. The vote is mostly because I want to see more of CDB, it's tough to get a idea of his allignment like this. If I had to pick someone for a lynch right now, I'd pick Bob.

I'm actually starting to think I'm happy with a Titus lynch... Titus seems to be finding things to discuss, but they don't aid scumhunting at all. It's getting pretty close to active lurking at this point...

It has gotten to the point that she has been called out for it before, but continues to do it. I'd think scum would tone it down and try to melt in. Instead of doing it again and get more attention.

It will become obvious that Dr. Pepper and NS are scum because they will have to drop little hints that everyone else is scum ....

Where does NS do that?

[Titus]

@Pebro, NS has been inactive. Post 802 is in the future tense. If we continue to scum hunt and show a lot of people are very protown besides them, they will have a problem. So they will be forced to try and drop hints that other players are scummy in order to prevent the town from getting organized. An organized town scum hunting together will catch the scums. NS hasn't been doing this as much as Dr. Pepper yet but they both will.

@Dr. Pepper, I realized I missed a question. Again, your statement about Channel takes my answer out of context. I figured the question meant if I had to exclude you and NS who would be scum. I answered Channel. I'm not so fixated that you and NS are scum to the point where I'd rule out anything else. I just really believe you are scum.

[Nexus]

Nobody Special has been prodded

[Pebro]

@Titus, how are you so sure NS is going to do that?

[Titus]

Scum will not sit idly by and let a town organize and build trust with each other. If three members of the town trust each other fast enough, then the scum will lose because those three members wouldn't vote each other. Scum must cause chaos.

[Nobody Special]

Titus: hypothetical question -- if I suddenly became more active, and joined you on the DrPepper wagon, how would that influence your read of me?


Question for everyone else: How do you read CDB?

[JKMatthews]

So NS's question to you Titus is basically why I don't think your 'plan' makes any sense. I'm interested to hear the answer though.
Also, I think the fact that you're clearing Bacde as town also shows why your plan doesn't make sense. Bacde could so very easily be scum - sitting back watching us all fighting, popping in saying completely innocuous things so as not to be suspected, then leaving us to our fighting. If what Bacde's done is your idea of somebody being 'proven town', your plan is even more doomed.

Pebro, you maybe have a point about Titus's behaviour not changing, but the whole point of my suspicion is that scum can't magically start undertaking effective scumhunting, and if Titus stopped talking altogether then the jig would more or less be up. That said, I do really keep swaying wildly on my opinion of Titus. Despite how frustrated I am by the playstyle, at the end of the day it's hard not to see it all coming from a "I really want town to win" point of view...

[Nobody Special]

Just for the record, I certainly do not have a solid townread on Titus at this point.

[JKMatthews]

I'd be quite surprised if anyone did, really...

In answer to your CBD question, until CBD actually delivers on these promises of analysis, he's sitting in a bit of a void of "bigger fish to fry" in my mind at the moment. But only because I can actually converse with other players - assuredly at least one and possibly both of our scum are in the low-activity section of the game.

NS, how do you feel about everyone in general? If you had to pick between 2 people to lynch, who would they be?

[Nobody Special]

While I understand your reason for asking the question, I don't really like the question itself. It makes me feel like I'm picking scumteams, which I really try not to do (my earlier pronouncement of CDB + Bob notwithstanding).

At this point, if I was forced to lynch one player, it would be Titus. Reason: Not enough interaction with CDB; and Titus being scummier than Bob.

[JKMatthews]

Yeah it was a terribly written question, but I wanted to ask something a bit more specific than "where's your head at?"

Mind explaining what about Titus and Bob is scummy, and why Titus is more scummy?

[Nobody Special]

I don't recall specifics about Bob; I seem to recall some scumslip he made a month or so ago. I'd have to iso myself to find it. He's a lingering scumread based on my ill-advised calling of the team of CDB/Bob.

Titus is scummy (to me) due to her obfuscation and niggling about tiny inconsequential details. It's like she's throwing four million words at the thread to try to get attention as far from herself as possible.

[JKMatthews]

If it helps, the 'scumslip' was him not being aware of whether or not townies had to to be alive at the end of the game to be considered winners, and the ensuing debate... thoughts?

And yeah, I agree about Titus. The problem is that it also seems combined with a total "I really want town to win" attitude, but I guess that's easy enough to fake...

[Nobody Special]

Thinking again on Bob's scumslip, it seems more likely that he would muse about that if he were scum, perhaps not knowing of the existence of the town role PM in the thread. This kinda makes it more likely (to come from scum). Maybe.

One thing is for sure, Titus

cannot

make it into lylo.

[JKMatthews]

When you have the time maybe ISO Bob and see his discussion on it... I'm not convinced it's a slip. I still think he's scummy though...

Unfortunately I have to agree

[Titus]

Ok, there have been a lot of questions to me since I stepped out a few hours ago.

NS, you basically asked what causes me to give someone a town read in post 814. Agreeing with me does NOTHING to influence my town/scum read on someone. Levels of activity and language indicators influence my scum or town reads. When scumhunting, I look for certain patterns. For instance, overformality. If someone starts using large words that do not they normally do not. Another sign, which no one has done here, referring to suspects as less than human. If someone says, I would "lynch that", my suspicion of them would increase. Another indicator to me is selective aggressiveness/over-confidence. This is where Dr. Pepper registers off the charts scum to me. He's angry and not angry intermittently when FoSed. Someone who is legitimately angry about a FoS maintains that anger. It's not selectively used when someone is disagreeing with you or being dense. Scum may withdraw from the group to avoid displaying these indicators.

People who are very active but do not display these indicators will be solid town reads for me. JKM is a perfect example of this IMO. His language is open. His emotions don't fluctuate based on whatever the hell is convenient at the time. He's never referring to people as less than human. His language has never changed between formal language and informal language. Basically, no indicators of deception are present in his speech.

This video, has many of the same indicators that I would use to detect deception. It has some irrelevant non-verbal cues (such as inappropriate smirking) but I still recommend it to anyone trying to understand my theory about language revealing scum (beyond scumslips). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_6vDLq64gE

So, the short version NS, I care more about what you say and the plausibility of what you say than who you believe or vote for.


--------------------------------------

NS, you're saying I don't interact with Channel enough? The dude posts maybe once every other day. That doesn't leave me any opportunity to interact with him. When his post count increases, so will my scrutiny.

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However, NS you seem to have flopped on whether or not Bob's alleged slip was scummy. Post 778 within the spoiler sets out your change of heart indicating Bob's alleged scumslip might not be a slip at all. However, you seem to have flipped back to the slip being an alleged scum slip. I don't like flip-flopping analysis. I like it even less when the context hasn't changed at all.

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Why can't I make it to lylo? I give my opinions and I try to foster communication. I'm misunderstood at times (probably due to my own lack of clarity) at points, but why can't I make it to lylo?